All Poster Forum
Common Poster Subjects => The Dealer/Auction House/Seller/Buyer Round Table => Topic started by: eatbrie on June 03, 2014, 10:58:18 AM
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Sniping it was probably going to be impossible before, definitely impossible now.
And I'm really getting tired of people outing auctions.
T
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And I'm really getting tired of people outing auctions.
T
Cool, so the Mid Auction thread is going away?
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I wouldn't mind hearing what the rest of our members think about it. If there is a consensus, hell yeah. I don't want to be the only one. I just think it's extremely rude for someone who doesn't want something to out it just because he/she feels like it. Like Skyjackers put it: "It is strange people never out auctions they intend to bid on though isn't it?"
T
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I can see both sides to this argument, and it is true, if the person is really going after an item he or she would not mention it on the forum. I still think that emovie and HA should be free zones, since they are on EVERYONES radar. Add Christies and Sothebys too.
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I wouldn't mind hearing what the rest of our members think about it. If there is a consensus, hell yeah. I don't want to be the only one. I just think it's extremely rude for someone who doesn't want something to out it just because he/she feels like it. Like Skyjackers put it: "It is strange people never out auctions they intend to bid on though isn't it?"
T
Well you guy's know my thoughts on this, and I could speak for a few others on here...But I won't.
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No, I don't know your thoughts, Paul. Sorry.
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I am fed up with people outing Ebay auctions, since I, more often than not, plan to bid on such auctions and end up on the losing end because people are watching and taking notes. Remember, it is not just about us, members: At the time I'm writing this, there are 27 Users and 216 Guests on the forum. I do my research, I spend countless hours on Ebay, I find what I like and I always look for a good deal - like we all do, I suppose. The good deal ends the minute it is posted on the forum. Such good deals are posted by people who obviously have no interest in it, either because they don't care about the items being sold or they deem them too expensive for their own pocket. But as we all know, too expensive for some might be just right for others. Paradoxically, when those people have an interest in something being sold, they keep it to themselves.
I want to lock the "Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev...." thread, but I don't want to do it if a majority of you guys disagree. So I will put it to a vote and let you decide.
Yes, your opinion matters.
T
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Hi T,
do you want to lock it members only? if so i agree
Paul
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OK, so Thierry is now openly opposing his partner's decision to allow posting of pending auctions. I guess Thierry is running the show.
Maybe Thierry should try to shut down Collectors Weekly for "outing" the most-watched auctions as well:
(http://www.posternirvana.com/0DNE3/2014-06/CW.jpg)
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It's completely absurd to claim that the one of the most watched posters (30 watchers) on eBay has been "outed" in this forum. Get real people.
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This good "Concept Art" thread is veering WAY off track. nono
I recall another thread that is discussing this... T's NEW one.
So why not keep it all there?
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Why not just delete it? It was I who started it, and that was solely as a joke.
Let those who want it start their own forum with it. Eventually we can have one forum per collector!
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Why not just delete it? It was I who started it, and that was solely as a joke.
Let those who want it start their own forum with it. Eventually we can have one forum per collector!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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This good "Concept Art" thread is veering WAY off track. nono
I recall another thread that is discussing this... T's NEW one.
So why not keep it all there?
Well, maybe you can move all these posts but let's look at the actual evidence here.
I "outed" this auction near the end. At that time there were 30 watchers and it was shown on Collectors Weekly as one of the top 5 "most watched" movie posters on Ebay, so it was not remotely a secret.
Unknown to the other bidders (including me), f***0 had already placed an $834 bid. S/he later placed another bid of $1,255. So it is beyond dispute that f***0 did not learn about this auction through this forum and the final price was going to be at least $1,255.
At the end of the auction, there were 36 watchers. It is possible but quite unlikely that the winning bidder learned about this auction through this forum and entered the game late. In the end there were four $1,000+ bidders with 1000+ feedback each. These most likely were pros who had been following the game all along.
(http://www.posternirvana.com/0DNE3/2014-06/Good-deal.jpg)
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Yes, and there were only two $2,000 + bidders, me and the winner, whoever he or she is.
But it is not even about this auction. It is about dozens that you outed, Mel. And when I say dozens, it could be hundreds. Do me a favor, the next time you want to bid on something, please let us know. I'd like to know the next 10 items you intend to bid on. They're out there for everyone to see, right, probably on that site that you keep promoting, so why should you care? Then you'll know how I feel.
T
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OK, so Thierry is now openly opposing his partner's decision to allow posting of pending auctions. I guess Thierry is running the show.
???
This has nothing to do with Holiday. Holiday is entitled to his opinion, as I am to mine. And no, Mel, I am not running the show, whatever that's supposed to mean. If I was running the show, I would have locked that thread without asking. I'm letting you guys decide and I will comply without a fight. I've already said what I had to say.
And again, please let us know what you're bidding on next.
T
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Yes, and there were only two $2,000 + bidders, me and the winner, whoever he or she is.
But it is not even about this auction. It is about dozens that you outed, Mel. And when I say dozens, it could be hundreds. Do me a favor, the next time you want to bid on something, please let us know. I'd like to know the next 10 items you intend to bid on. They're out there for everyone to see, right, probably on that site that you keep promoting, so why should you care? Then you'll know how I feel.
I never "out" an auction with few watchers. When an auction picks up a certain number of watchers (maybe 15+), it's ridiculous to pretend it's a "secret" anymore. I'd like to get that "Endless Summer" one sheet but with 21 watchers and 5 days to go, it's ridiculous to get mad if somebody points it out on this forum:
(http://www.posternirvana.com/0DNE3/2014-06/CW1.jpg)
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Outing auctions in here is lack of etiquette. The fact that those auctions are promoted in other sites like Collectors Weekly does not make it correct.
Think of a mob throwing stones at someone. Throwing rocks yourself because because, what the hell, everyone's doing it does not make it correct.
Of course, saving the huge differences between killing someone and making another collector pay more for an item :D
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Eventually we can have one forum per collector!
Mine will surely have monsters and naked gals. Ted is welcome to join anytime! ;)
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What does it matter if an auction has 5 watchers or 50. I watch auctions constantly with no intention to bid just to see how far it will go. I don't watch the small ones, obviously. And it is not about the 50 watchers, it is about that one bidder that could have seen the auction on here.
T
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I won the auction. As some of you know I collect rare alternative style one sheets. ET is one of my favourite films. I am sorry I deprived Thierry of this poster for his wonderful Spielberg collection. I am sorry Thierry was bidding against me because I had to pay double the price I would have won it for if he hadn't been. That's just my bad luck. I was watching this auction for days and quietly cursed Mel when he outed it. It made no difference on this occasion and in my view it makes little difference in the vast majority of auctions because the potential bidders reading such a posting on this forum represent a tiny fraction of the potential market place. That is why I personally have no problem in Mel posting in this way. This is a forum for the exchange of information.
Mark
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What if I told you I didn't know about this auction until Mel outed it, Mark?
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My bad luck.
Mark
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My bad luck.
Mark
Well, that's not the case, but it could have been.
Btw, congrats to you. I wish I had known you collect this sort of thing as it wasn't this important to me. I talked to Chris about it the day before, when it was at $50, and told him I wasn't going to bid because it was too expensive :). Then 5 minutes before the auction, as I was feeding my kids, I decided to go for it. Next time you see a Spielberg thing like this, talk to me.
T
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Hi T,
do you want to lock it members only? if so i agree
Paul
I already voted, but I like this, too.
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And again, please let us know what you're bidding on next.
This is what it boils down to.
Unless Mel, you are cool with giving us your ebay password so we can log in and check out what you are eying up.
Otherwise, its just inconsiderate on every level.
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This whole thread is the equivalent of the the referendum for "the self-rule of the Donetsk People’s Republic":
http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2014/05/ukraines-bogus-referendums
This issue was settled years ago and the same whiners are making the same tired arguments:
(http://www.posternirvana.com/0DNE3/2014-06/2010.jpg)
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Cool. Then post your ebay watch list when you add to it.
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geez.. this again??
(http://www.amittenfullofsavings.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/kleenex-facial-tissue-junior-211952.jpeg)
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It's completely absurd to claim that the one of the most watched posters (30 watchers) on eBay has been "outed" in this forum. Get real people.
Mel what was your motivation in posting the auction?
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This issue was settled years ago and the same whiners are making the same tired arguments:
That's because we are old, and we like to whine :)
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T
did you really bid $2450 for that ET unused poster design?
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wow pretty tight running so far at almost 50/50. When do the votes get counted? Will we dudes abide?
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Lock it.
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T
did you really bid $2450 for that ET unused poster design?
I know, right?
I think it had more to do with the Alien than ET.
My only problem with this design, and why I'm not banging my head against the wall shouting Mark's name, is that it would have never made into a OS in the first place. In fact, not a single one of BD Fox $ Friends designs made it. I don't count the Bike poster since it is not a theatrical poster. But this one clearly displays two of 20th Century Fox's most precious properties (especially for 1982) and I can't imagine Universal okaying it. So in essence, it was never a contender.
But I still like the Alien and would probably do it again. Damn you, Mark.
T
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Lock it.
keep it open
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/archieleach/kittypong.gif)
Burn it with fire...
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The cats ping ponging are mesmerizing... mesmrized
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Yep, lock it, it shouldn't just be Ebay either, but with the exceptions of..
Emovie
Movieposterbid
MPE
HA
The gob-shites on here have cost me far too much over the years...
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The only ones who want it left open are the ones to lazy to do their own searching, or think it's clever to out something..look at me, look what I've found"...
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Yep, lock it, it shouldn't just be Ebay either, but with the exceptions of..
Emovie
Movieposterbid
MPE
HA
The gob-shites on here have cost me far too much over the years...
Paul, what are gob-shites? Also what is a Bollocks?
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Honestly I could give two shits whether it is locked or kept open. But I do think that people need to really think twice about what they are posting in that thread. There has been a few times there was stuff I was watching and then seen it in that thread which I was not to happy about.
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I think you folks should show me how dastardly you really are
find anything on this list:
Falcon Takes Over
Time to Kill
Double Indemnity
And Now Tomorrow
Murder My Sweet
the Unseen
Blue Dahlia
Big Sleep
Lady in the Lake
Brasher Doubloon
Strangers on a Train
Marlowe
Long Goodbye
Farewell My Lovely
Hey, POST IT!.
I'd like to know if there are any other Raymond Chandler colletors and what better way is there other than to have them compete with me.
also, if you have any links to gambling stuff.. I'd like to find other gambling poster collectors. I only know one other and his wantlist is smaller than mine (narrower interest). so please help me find that lousy #*&%@ who's going to beat me out of an item.
I dare ya!
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For what it's worth, I believe it would be very difficult to assess whether outing auctions would really have any negative (i.e. increased £$) effect on the end sale price on these boards.
The fact is, the people here will ALL do their research as to what is available and I would submit that the outing of auctions would only be of use to people who a) very rarely research their daily needs and b) just happen to luckily come across an item that may possibly be of interest. I.e, people who do not frequent these boards.
Is there any proof to suggest that, subsequent to an outing, x number more people bid, and that their bids offered any material competition to that which was the winning bid?
Or could it all just be 'in the head'?
Happy to be proved wrong of course.
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Lock it, or only for members.
PS. I would have bet the sales price that poster was going to Mark or T's house as soon as it was put on here.
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Lock it. 100%
Mel, who are you to decide when an auction is 'ready' or 'okay' to be outed?
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Paul, what are gob-shites? Also what is a Bollocks?
Haha, yes, I'm from Yorkshire, and Bollocks are lockers found on a fore-shore, to store equipment in. (this is true.)
Oh, and a Gob-shite is a person who outs auctions. ;)
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Is there any proof to suggest that, subsequent to an outing, x number more people bid, and that their bids offered any material competition to that which was the winning bid?
That is indeed the key question and the answer would have to be no or nearly no
Or could it all just be 'in the head'?
if there be a head, all is in it
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Mid-auction analysis is one of my favorite threads! Don't take it away! There are so many people looking for odd-listed eBay auctions anyway, the chances of something slipping through the cracks are minimal.
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Yep, lock it, it shouldn't just be Ebay either, but with the exceptions of..
Emovie
Movieposterbid
MPE
HA
The gob-shites on here have cost me far too much over the years...
And not forgetting Vectis ;D
The question posed by Thierry is a great one with much to debate.
But another question nobody has thought of is this - will the locking of the thread lead to members posting auctions in the main forum instead? It's a possibility.
Not all can be pleased so you must make a decision either way. Leave it as is, or delete it. From the votes thus far it's just in favour of the "No, keep it as is" camp.
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Yep, lock it, it shouldn't just be Ebay either, but with the exceptions of..
Emovie
Movieposterbid
MPE
HA
The gob-shites on here have cost me far too much over the years...
Agree! Lock it! with those exceptions of contributors to this place.
and as for gob shites....Well put!
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Still not a clear vote one way or the other. One thing is for sure, I think we can all agree that it is a polarizing subject. So even if I don't lock it, we'll have to come up with a strategy that works for everyone. It is obvious that some people, including yours truly, hate it, while others are more ambivalent about it. I'll keep the poll open until the end of next week and then make a decision based on your comments.
T
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an internet forum is a place to share information.
People are always asking us old timers for info and when available, we happily give it
you don't have to like the information that is being shared just as I don't have to like chocolate ice cream.
for those who are for internet neutrality (and I'm certain all of you are) censoring the thread (mid-auction) is no different than corporations wanting net neutrality to end so that web traffic can benefit them more than others.
2c
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Things change. Times change. People change. It's called evolution. Get over it.
On this issue, I will abide by the majority vote, as will Thierry.
???
This has nothing to do with Holiday. Holiday is entitled to his opinion, as I am to mine. And no, Mel, I am not running the show, whatever that's supposed to mean. If I was running the show, I would have locked that thread without asking. I'm letting you guys decide and I will comply without a fight. I've already said what I had to say.
And again, please let us know what you're bidding on next.
T
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Things change. Times change. People change. It's called evolution. Get over it.
On this issue, I will abide by the majority vote, as will Thierry.
thumbup cheers
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Seems "the perp" is MIA (in the discussion mix here) for the last 24 hrs..
;D
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Thierry and I talked today and he brought up the fact that lurkers frequent this forum much more than actual members, and there's where the competition could come from. I don't think the folks here mind the competition from one another. But Thierry's point is that we're outing auctions to people who do not participate here, and then who compete against us with information provided by us.
We're considering locking down the forum so that only members can see posts. We're also going to look at whether we can lock down particular threads while leaving other areas open.
We shall see....
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Thierry and I talked today and he brought up the fact that lurkers frequent this forum much more than actual members, and there's where the competition could come from. I don't think the folks here mind the competition from one another. But Thierry's point is that we're outing auctions to people who do not participate here, and then who compete against us with information provided by us.
We're considering locking down the forum so that only members can see posts. We're also going to look at whether we can lock down particular threads while leaving other areas open.
We shall see....
Rational.
Either way. I am pretty sure we are all behind you guys.
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Thierry and I talked today and he brought up the fact that lurkers frequent this forum much more than actual members, and there's where the competition could come from. I don't think the folks here mind the competition from one another. But Thierry's point is that we're outing auctions to people who do not participate here, and then who compete against us with information provided by us.
We're considering locking down the forum so that only members can see posts. We're also going to look at whether we can lock down particular threads while leaving other areas open.
the end of Net Neutrality on APF
I think believing that the lurkers here only know about an item because it was posted here is complete paranoia
locking teh forum so only members can see posts is a poor advertisement for why you need to be in the forum
I have a Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4
there is a club online
however, this is what happens.
you go to the forum and you can see what sub categories there are on the forum...
However, when you join as a non-paid member, you can only see and post in one thread "Hello"
you can't see anything else unless you pay, and therefore yuo can't see if there is any value to paying to be a member
as such, there is no active 3000GT club
it's either open and free, or it's closed and dies
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I do think locking it to members only is a great idea. That way all those people that are not members cannot see what others are going after or have an interest in.
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I do think locking it to members only is a great idea. That way all those people that are not members cannot see what others are going after or have an interest in.
What he said.....
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Seems "the perp" is MIA (in the discussion mix here) for the last 24 hrs..
;D
I imagine Mel, who has contributed an incredible amount of helpful information in recent years, though the forum and on his websites, has some difficulty understanding the hostile press he has been getting over the last couple of days. I do as well. Ebay is not a secret source for posters.
I agree entirely with Rich's thoughts on this matter. This is a wonderful forum as it is and Thierry/Holiday should be proud of what they have achieved. I suspect many of the non-participating members are younger collectors on more limited budgets who are intimidated from joining in because they feel they do not have the experience to contribute to discussions or perhaps have collections of more recent low-cost mainstream posters which they perceive the active members will find less interesting. These are potentially the "advanced collectors" of the future and it is in all our interests that this hobby grows in popularity and is enjoyed by as many people as possible - young/old, rich/poor, male/female, gay/straight.....
To control the free exchange of information by locking threads or restricting who can view them is not a positive move in my opinion but if that is what Thierry/Holiday decide to do with their forum I will respect their decision as I am their guest.
Mark
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<opinion>
I agree with Rich and others that locking the forum as a whole would be detrimental to both the forum itself and the hobby. Think of all the useful information in the 'Common Poster Subjects' subforums alone that would no longer be available to help those interested in the hobby but who don't have the time to be active members.
On the flip side, as with all clubs, membership has its privileges. Having a small number of 'members only' threads for sensitive topics seems completely reasonable. Besides, even if threads or the entire forum is locked, the next day H & T could receive some 200+ requests for membership from people that don't want to actually contribute but simply want to keep stalking the forum. Same problem, different form. Having it limited to members only would also allow the friendly ' FU!!!!!!!!' discussions between friends to continue. :)
Are people learning things from the mid-auction thread that they probably would not have otherwise? Sure. But I think of it this way - it's more people than you'd like, but probably not as many as you think.
In the end, as Mark said, this is H & T's forum and I am their guest. I stand by whatever decision they make. Besides, how many forums actually offer to make decisions based on its user's input and feedback???
</opinion>
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I imagine Mel, who has contributed an incredible amount of helpful information in recent years, though the forum and on his websites, has some difficulty understanding the hostile press he has been getting over the last couple of days. I do as well. Ebay is not a secret source for posters.
Um, I disagree with you Mark. I don't see Mel as any more special than any other member on this forum. Everyone participates to the extent of their knowledge and free time. Some more than others, but it doesn't make them any more special, as members or as collectors. This is not the first time that this topic comes up and Mel has known for years that it really infuriates some people. I thought it was time to have a serious debate about it and let everyone share their thoughts on the topic. Holiday has always said that this forum is not a democracy, but I decided to go a different route. I honestly don't see anything wrong with it.
T
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Good points both pro and con and a question that does require serious thought.
As one who detests outing auctions you'd think I'd be for shutting down the thread, but surprisingly (to myself anyway) I voted to keep it open. 'Tis a slippery slope when you start censoring (admittedly in the loosest definition of the word) content, particularly at a site that was created as a counter to a site that was heavily censored. It seems to me that is a very wrong way to go.
That said, I do wish discretion would be used when outing. As mentioned by others, high dollar items in highly visible auction sites are probably fair game since there is only the remotest of possibilities that they would sneak by the jackals. It's the screamingly good deals hidden on e**y or more obscure auction sites (and I do think e**y is becoming more and more obscure) that piss me off the most, as the odds of maybe, just maybe, having a shot at something is actually there.
We are, however, guests at the maison de Thierry et Holiday, and I support their ultimate decision either way.
--Peter
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I receive PM's about stuff people may think I might be interested in and I REALLY appreciate that as I tend to run thin on hunt and seek time. That being said, I cannot stress how much I hate seeing stuff posted that is actively up for sale regardless if I am interested in the item or not. The only people that make out from those posts are the people selling the item.
The argument of it having no impact is complete BS, sure it might be $5 difference, but who cares, a fiver lost is money that could have been spent elsewhere. The next argument of not effecting your bid if you really want something you are going to get it anyone is just fine for YOU.
I urge people to use the PM function, that is a target audience that you know may have an interest and not a "look world, run this up" posting.
Just be mindful of others bank account is the bottom line regardless of which tax bracket you might think a item is going to end up in.
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I realize I am not a serious collector in most people's eyes. My budget is more like $50-150/month. That puts a lot of auctions out of range. It also limits my time since I am still raising kids as a single Dad.
Reason I mention this is because I find value in the mid and post threads in order to see the sort of stuff that is emerging, or what is falling out of favor. I am unlikely to find some discovery others have overlooked simply because I don't have the time to search it out. I do enjoy reading the threads though. In addition, my tastes run toward stuff that is not the norm here. Musicals, old car and airplane related material, while most others are looking for monsters and horror.
Personally, I don't think that there are many cases where outing accomplished any change in bidding. The serious folks already know, and the casual folks simply don't mount a serious threat.
I obviously voted to leave it open.
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Arrogance and ignorance rules supreme 'round here. Sad.
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What would be wrong with simply waiting until after they are over to post about them?
Obviously, people who "out" auctions NEVER post, "Here is something I will be bidding on in two days and I want to make sure all of you see it NOW before it ends"!
Why not simply start a new website or forum whose entire purpose is simply to alert people to great stuff they might otherwise miss? It could be a sub-section of Mel's fine site, or an independent one. It sounds like half the people here would love it!
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Um, I disagree with you Mark. I don't see Mel as any more special than any other member on this forum. Everyone participates to the extent of their knowledge and free time. Some more than others, but it doesn't make them any more special, as members or as collectors. This is not the first time that this topic comes up and Mel has known for years that it really infuriates some people. I thought it was time to have a serious debate about it and let everyone share their thoughts on the topic. Holiday has always said that this forum is not a democracy, but I decided to go a different route. I honestly don't see anything wrong with it.
T
I think what Mark meant is that Mel shares a lot of helpful information, but also gets unnecessarily chastised when he shares information that is not in line with some individuals' personal interests.
Out of all the places I've seen where people freely share info., this is the only one where I've seen people whine about "outing" for sale items. The whole point of having a place like this, is that people of like-minded interest can chat about the stuff. That's probably why none of the other places I've been to have people constantly complaining about talking about stuff that is for sale.
A lot of the visitors here surely appreciate visiting this joint, and they surely add value to the hobby, even if it's not directly to this forum via their participation here. A prime example is when the "anti-outing" people are selling items, they surely want as many people as possible to see their items to get the highest price, yet when they're buying items, they want as few people possible knowing about the items, so they can get the best deal. It's truly disingenuous, and frankly, it's incredible how many times this whole argument has been rehashed here.
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What would be wrong with simply waiting until after they are over to post about them?
That's called the "Post-auction thread"! ;D
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I don't like to talk about money and collectors' pocketbooks, but the truth is that most items that get outed are the most expensive ones. It is also true that a lot of members won't go after these items because they are too expensive and don't mind knowing about them just to see what some crazy collectors will fork out to possess them. But there are collectors out there who don't mind spending a lot of money and who don't like to see their potential win outed because others can't afford it. As much as I hate doing the money talk, it is a fact. If I could only afford $100/month on posters, I would obviously not care if someone outs $500+ pieces. It's fun to watch. When you find yourself on the other end of the equation, it's annoying to no end.
T
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I don't like to talk about money and collectors' pocketbooks, but the truth is that most items that get outed are the most expensive ones. It is also true that a lot of members won't go after these items because they are too expensive and don't mind knowing about them just to see what some crazy collectors will fork out to possess them. But there are collectors out there who don't mind spending a lot of money and who don't like to see their potential win outed because others can't afford it. As much as I hate doing the money talk, it is a fact. If I could only afford $100/month on posters, I would obviously not care if someone outs $500+ pieces. It's fun to watch. When you find yourself on the other end of the equation, it's annoying to no end.
T
If you started outing all items where you already own them (so are not bidding) that might change a few minds quickly!
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If you started outing all items where you already own them (so are not bidding) that might change a few minds quickly!
That's a VERY GOOD IDEA, Bruce. EXCEPT that I usually bid on items I already own if I deem them low enough.
happy1 happy1 happy1
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Annoying and costly...
I Totally disagree with Mark, and a few others here, outing an auction is not sharing "knowledgable" information. It's not telling me anything informative about the poster(age, release, type of paper, Print quality, etc) it's simply telling me where something is for sale.
The more people that Know, the more it will cost. Why spoil someones chances of a good deal for the "glory" of letting people know what you have found. Do you outers just want the pat on the head, well done son, your fantastic at sniffing out the bargains.. And if as some have said, all the serious collectors will know about them anyway, why bother telling us on here!! as we will know.
This whole outing subject is about money, full-stop. Why should we take the chance of paying more, just because these gob-shites want to feel they have achieved something.
Well how about we all post every poster we are going to buy before we buy it.. I wonder how many will post, as I may run you up just for sport.
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Annoying and costly...
I Totally disagree with Mark, and a few others here, outing an auction is not sharing "knowledgable" information. It's not telling me anything informative about the poster(age, release, type of paper, Print quality, etc) it's simply telling me where something is for sale.
The more people that Know, the more it will cost. Why spoil someones chances of a good deal for the "glory" of letting people know what you have found. Do you outers just want the pat on the head, well done son, your fantastic at sniffing out the bargains.. And if as some have said, all the serious collectors will know about them anyway, why bother telling us on here!! as we will know.
This whole outing subject is about money, full-stop. Why should we take the chance of paying more, just because these gob-shites want to feel they have achieved something.
Well how about we all post every poster we are going to buy before we buy it.. I wonder how many will post, as I may run you up just for sport.
Couldn't say it better.
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Personally, I don't think that there are many cases where outing accomplished any change in bidding. The serious folks already know, and the casual folks simply don't mount a serious threat.
I've seen far too much evidence to the contrary. Good deals do happen and they do happen on eBay, but had they been posted on here likely would not have been much of a deal at all. I am reminded of a James Bond door panel for Thunderball that was picked up for peanuts by a forum (MPT) newbie who had a choice to out it or not and to great financial benefit correctly choose not to share it until bidding was closed.
No one disputes Mel contributions (some more helpful than others) to the forum, but there is a certain level of unseemly self-aggrandizement that comes with these types of post at the expense of others.
I, normally a big fan of democracy, do not think that this is one of those times where majority rule should be the measure of determining policy. The fact that this practice offends a good portion of the community should be enough...
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My vote is to have the thread members only.
Very nice compromise. But whatever happens doesnt matter to me.
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I, normally a big fan of democracy, do not think that this is one of those times where majority rule should be the measure of determining policy. The fact that this practice offends a good portion of the community should be enough...
I agree, but I also hope that exposing the issue in such grand fashion will refrain the perpetrators from constantly outing what they don't want, should the thread be kept open. They now know that it infuriates a lot of forum members and respect and decency will hopefully prevail.
T
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OK, can't change my vote, but I guess if it annoys folks it is probably better to kill it.
But, the site is filled with folks who want to promote their own auctions, so lots of stuff is going to get outed by the sellers anyway. Where do you draw the line? Can the seller out his own auctions? Can I out an auction where the seller is a friend? How about that one a year ago which was pretty much a pointer toward an obscure live auction that contained a single poster? How about that To Catch a Thief insert that was being sold for charity? Should charity auctions be kept secret thus depriving the charity of much needed funds?
Where do we draw that line in the quicksand?
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I, normally a big fan of democracy, do not think that this is one of those times where majority rule should be the measure of determining policy. The fact that this practice offends a good portion of the community should be enough...
either you believe in democracy or you don't. There isn't a middle ground.
T stated at the start this would be a democratic solution and I would hope he keeps to that concept.
also, who is offended is not always the democratic issue. Everyone on Earth is offended by something other people do and it is not and should not be the arbiter of what is right or wrong.
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Sorry, stuff just keeps appearing in my brain.
Probably not possible to out Emovie, MPB, Heritage or any of the popular poster specific sites. Anybody not noticing stuff there simply isn't paying attention and bidders must asssume a free for all.
Still, what about the case where someone questions the validity of a poster and it turns out to be legit, but just underpriced?
Is it ethical or unethical for a member here to tell an ebay seller that he has way undervalued and miscatagorized his poster and that the member doesn't want to cheat him?
All of my hypotheticals have shown up on this forum at some time, and could be considered outing.
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I think it's quite okay for a forum member to advertize his or her gear. I have no problem with that. My problem is when it's gratuitous and arbitrary, just because someone feels like it.
T
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I've seen far too much evidence to the contrary. Good deals do happen and they do happen on eBay, but had they been posted on here likely would not have been much of a deal at all. I am reminded of a James Bond door panel for Thunderball that was picked up for peanuts by a forum (MPT) newbie who had a choice to out it or not and to great financial benefit correctly choose not to share it until bidding was closed.
No one disputes Mel contributions (some more helpful than others) to the forum, but there is a certain level of unseemly self-aggrandizement that comes with these types of post at the expense of others.
I, normally a big fan of democracy, do not think that this is one of those times where majority rule should be the measure of determining policy. The fact that this practice offends a good portion of the community should be enough...
Well put. A perfect summation of my thoughts, too.
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also, who is offended is not always the democratic issue. Everyone on Earth is offended by something other people do and it is not and should not be the arbiter of what is right or wrong.
Case in point: most are offended by your input here, but we all seem to deal with it.
Oh yeah--> :)
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I think it's quite okay for a forum member to advertize his or her gear. I have no problem with that. My problem is when it's gratuitous and arbitrary, just because someone feels like it.
T
clap Yes so right.
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Case in point: most are offended by your input here, but we all seem to deal with it.
Oh yeah--> :)
awwww.. does Little Benny have a hurty boo-boo...
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Why spoil someones chances of a good deal for the "glory" of letting people know what you have found. Do you outers just want the pat on the head, well done son, your fantastic at sniffing out the bargains.. And if as some have said, all the serious collectors will know about them anyway, why bother telling us on here!! as we will know.
Bingo!
I have learned zero about posters from these outings.
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Bingo!
I have learned zero about posters from these outings.
I have learned that they can really really piss people off! :)
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I have learned that they can really really piss people off! :)
happy1
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The vote as it stands to me is a head scratcher to be quite honest.
The folks that vote keep it open, think about this... for 1 week post everything you are watching or plan to bid on, that simple. One week! every item in the watch list..
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The vote as it stands to me is a head scratcher to be quite honest.
The folks that vote keep it open, think about this... for 1 week post everything you are watching or plan to bid on, that simple. One week! every item in the watch list..
anything in my watchlist that you guys might be interested in (like Endless Summer) I probably won't win anyway, so who cares??
have at it Ladies & the rest of you too
(http://www.comic-art.com/apf/watchlist.jpg)
(http://www.comic-art.com/apf/watchlist2.jpg)
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Do you outers just want the pat on the head, well done son, your fantastic at sniffing out the bargains.. And if as some have said, all the serious collectors will know about them anyway, why bother telling us on here!! as we will know.
This whole outing subject is about money, full-stop. Why should we take the chance of paying more, just because these gob-shites want to feel they have achieved something.
Well how about we all post every poster we are going to buy before we buy it.. I wonder how many will post, as I may run you up just for sport.
And these, again, are the main issues - particularly the last point. But we have belaboured this in the past and those on the other side of the fence just do not "get" the argument. It's been 5 years of arguments on this subject already...
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anything in my watchlist that you guys might be interested in (like Endless Summer) I probably won't win anyway, so who cares??
have at it Ladies & the rest of you too
(http://www.comic-art.com/apf/watchlist.jpg)
(http://www.comic-art.com/apf/watchlist2.jpg)
That endless summer looks tempting...
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And these, again, are the main issues - particularly the last point. But we have belaboured this in the past and those on the other side of the fence just do not "get" the argument. It's been 5 years of arguments on this subject already...
5 years of this saga. Absolutely ridiculous.
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Yup.. just like political issues... those on either side will never see eye to eye (or choose to).
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Yup.. just like political issues... those on either side will never see eye to eye (or choose to).
politics
religion
guns
guns & religion
steak vs seafood
Coke and Pepsi
more flavor, less filling
the list is endliess
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cool1
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politics
religion
guns
guns & religion
steak vs seafood
Coke and Pepsi
more flavor, less filling
the list is endliess
Only thing we all agree on is global warming, oh wait...
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Rich can you post those as links so it easier to just click to bid on them ;D
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......... for 1 week post everything you are watching or plan to bid on, that simple. One week! every item in the watch list..
Well, this list is as per my Wants List, which has been available for all those wishing to not help me but to either throw in a few troublesome bids or indeed, bid for it with a view to selling it to me for a 10% hike... But I don't believe that would happen.
If you want to close the Mid-auction thread, you may as well kill the Wants forum as well
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If you want to close the Mid-auction thread, you may as well kill the Wants forum as well
Not really.
Hoping for something is very different than discovering something you can actually acquire, and for a bargain (hopefully).
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Possibly.
But I believe it is all much of a muchness, and not in keeping with the spirit of the freedom of information internet exercise...
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Possibly.
But I believe it is all much of a muchness, and not in keeping with the spirit of the freedom of information internet exercise...
What does that mean? :-\
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Rich can you post those as links so it easier to just click to bid on them ;D
you can always do a little work on your own
:P
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It's not a head scratcher to me...the mid-auction analysis is an important umbrella page (and very popular)...if you actually do some research instead of creating false pictures (and saying there is evidence to support that outed auctions went for higher prices when you can never prove it) is a testament to the selfishness of collectors....the popularity of the thread accounts for the 231 pages...
in retrospect I admire the mid auction thread for the analysis of wild pricing by sellers, the authentication of items for sale, the lamenting of rarity over condition, the amount of educated guesses and the overall interest in movie posters....the fear of having an outed auction trumps all that?....I call bullshit...I agree with Rich...this is nothing but a preemptive strike to lock this thread...
Any rational person can see there is no real evidence that an outed auction here commanded a price beyond what "would" have happened...
Show me your proof!!!
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It's not a head scratcher to me...the mid-auction analysis is an important umbrella page (and very popular)...if you actually do some research instead of creating false pictures (and saying there is evidence to support that outed auctions went for higher prices when you can never prove it) is a testament to the selfishness of collectors....the popularity of the thread accounts for the 231 pages...
in retrospect I admire the mid auction thread for the analysis of wild pricing by sellers, the authentication of items for sale, the lamenting of rarity over condition, the amount of educated guesses and the overall interest in movie posters....the fear of having an outed auction trumps all that?....I call bullshit...I agree with Rich...this is nothing but a preemptive strike to lock this thread...
Any rational person can see there is no real evidence that an outed auction here commanded a price beyond what "would" have happened...
Show me your proof!!!
yep.
100%
sm1
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if you actually do some research instead of creating false pictures (and saying there is evidence to support that outed auctions went for higher prices when you can never prove it) is a testament to the selfishness of collectors....
How unselfish is posting links to auctions just because you need attention?
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It's not a head scratcher to me...the mid-auction analysis is an important umbrella page (and very popular)...if you actually do some research instead of creating false pictures (and saying there is evidence to support that outed auctions went for higher prices when you can never prove it) is a testament to the selfishness of collectors....the popularity of the thread accounts for the 231 pages...
in retrospect I admire the mid auction thread for the analysis of wild pricing by sellers, the authentication of items for sale, the lamenting of rarity over condition, the amount of educated guesses and the overall interest in movie posters....the fear of having an outed auction trumps all that?....I call bullshit...I agree with Rich...this is nothing but a preemptive strike to lock this thread...
Any rational person can see there is no real evidence that an outed auction here commanded a price beyond what "would" have happened...
Show me your proof!!!
OK I will come clean on a great example where this might have applied. My good poster buddy PM's me about an ebay auction of a poster I was looking for that had a bad title etc. and was started way under price. I was so worried that someone would find out about it I was a nervous wreck. I ended up being the only bidder and got it for a mere $325...
What was the poster? An Orange Mad Max Australian OS. Now tell me, with full confidence if that auction had been outed, that I would have been the only bidder. It would have pissed me off for a good year to have missed out on that poster.
The guy who told me about it didn't have to. But he knew I had been looking for it. He was honorable about it. That is what this hobby should promote.
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FORUM by it's very design is for sharing information with a COMMUNITY
Not for secrecy. That's a CLUB
Charlie, you of all people should understand that. You got pissed off because they wanted to censor your speech and went away.
Now the shoe is on the other foot?
This forum should serve the "we" not the "me"
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lololol
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How unselfish is posting links to auctions just because you need attention?
How selfish is it to lock a thread based on unsubstantiated fear of competition?
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Wow Charlie, I've got to say, I'm a little confused. Not only is your comment right on the money and I for one applaud it, but it goes very much against your good buddy Mel who left the forum because he couldn't take the heat. What gives?
T
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This forum should serve the "we" not the "me"
Spoken like a true dealer, Rich.
T
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lololol
I don't expect you to agree Ben, not with your skewed perspectives
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Charlie, you of all people should understand that. You got pissed off because they wanted to censor your speech and went away.
I got my hat handed too me. I didn't just go away. And it didn't really have anything to do with my speech being censored. I still don't think people really "get" what happened.
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I don't expect you to agree Ben, not with your skewed perspectives
You mean the same ones held by many others here?
Or does disagreeing with you just = skewed?
At least you are consistent, Rich, I will give you that.
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Seems like a great time to put this back out there:
(http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/556/picture11l.png)
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Spoken like a true dealer, Rich.
T
in what way T?
I don't think my auctions very often get spoken about in Mid-auction and I don't think I've seen anything posted there that I would bid on
Lots of great information does get shared that leads to LEARNING about a variety of subjects.
Do you want people to come by and listen and learn and maybe join & become part of something, or do you just want a place to hang out with your close friends?
It's a forum, not a club.
censorship is a fool's errand and I would say that on the eBay boards when anyone here posts a gripe and it is removed, you would scream to high heaven. Why would you support censorship in other forms then?
No one would ever tell you I am a selfish person. I am an altruist who believes in society. This forum isn't about me, it's about us and whomever wants to join us in our journey.
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How selfish is it to lock a thread based on unsubstantiated fear of competition?
You might want to read around here a bit more. Examples are plenty.
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Wow Charlie, I've got to say, I'm a little confused. Not only is your comment right on the money and I for one applaud it, but it goes very much against your good buddy Mel who left the forum because he couldn't take the heat. What gives?
T
I'm not worried about Mel. Why is everyone else?
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Another classic from the APF Histories:
Like I said before, it's silly to pretend the stuff on the dedicated movie poster auctions - like yours - is not being watched closely by numerous potential buyers, so I personally don't have any problem if anybody discusses them. (Not that my opinion matters anyway.)
However, most of the forum members are strictly buyers and want to find bargains, so I'm personally never going to discuss low-profile Ebay auctions and would hope that no one else would either. Just send out an email to those whom you know have interest.
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You might want to read around here a bit more. Examples are plenty.
maybe you need to look at yourself. That would be my suggestion.
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maybe you need to look at yourself. That would be my suggestion.
awwww.. does Little Benny have a hurty boo-boo...
Neither of these rebuttals really match your whole 'We Try Harder' mantra...
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What does that mean? :-\
Sorry.
What I was attempting to say was that this whole thread about closing the Mid Auction thread is a storm in a tea cup. There is absolutely nothing to prove that outing an item on these particular boards will have any material effect on the outcome, bearing in mind these boards' members and the lengths they will go to to find something. It is just a sense of fear.
As for the spirit of the exercise, it is the internet, which some say is successful because of the freedom of movement of knowledge. And banning and censoring stuff goes against that grain - in my opinion.
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It's not a head scratcher to me...the mid-auction analysis is an important umbrella page (and very popular)...if you actually do some research instead of creating false pictures (and saying there is evidence to support that outed auctions went for higher prices when you can never prove it) is a testament to the selfishness of collectors....the popularity of the thread accounts for the 231 pages...
in retrospect I admire the mid auction thread for the analysis of wild pricing by sellers, the authentication of items for sale, the lamenting of rarity over condition, the amount of educated guesses and the overall interest in movie posters....the fear of having an outed auction trumps all that?....I call bullshit...I agree with Rich...this is nothing but a preemptive strike to lock this thread...
Any rational person can see there is no real evidence that an outed auction here commanded a price beyond what "would" have happened...
Show me your proof!!!
I concur entirely.
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It's not a head scratcher to me...the mid-auction analysis is an important umbrella page (and very popular)...if you actually do some research instead of creating false pictures (and saying there is evidence to support that outed auctions went for higher prices when you can never prove it) is a testament to the selfishness of collectors....the popularity of the thread accounts for the 231 pages...
in retrospect I admire the mid auction thread for the analysis of wild pricing by sellers, the authentication of items for sale, the lamenting of rarity over condition, the amount of educated guesses and the overall interest in movie posters....the fear of having an outed auction trumps all that?....I call bullshit...I agree with Rich...this is nothing but a preemptive strike to lock this thread...
Any rational person can see there is no real evidence that an outed auction here commanded a price beyond what "would" have happened...
Show me your proof!!!
Disingenuous arguments are just that...
I purchased a poster on eBay for less than half of what it went for on EMP the next week by a member of this board, who had to outbid at least one other member of this board to get it. Not posting the auction on here saved me money. Period.
To deny the impact of advertising, while living in our current culture, means that you are either a blithering idiot or being deliberately obtuse.
There is absolutely nothing in the mid-auction thread that couldn't have waited to be in the post auction thread except blatant narcissism.
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Guys, even though our divergences on the topic are clearly visible, let's try to keep it civil, shall we? This is a discussion, not a fight. We are ALL entitled to our opinions, right or wrong.
T
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Not all opinions deserve equal weight...
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OK I will come clean on a great example where this might have applied. My good poster buddy PM's me about an ebay auction of a poster I was looking for that had a bad title etc. and was started way under price. I was so worried that someone would find out about it I was a nervous wreck. I ended up being the only bidder and got it for a mere $325...
What was the poster? An Orange Mad Max Australian OS. Now tell me, with full confidence if that auction had been outed, that I would have been the only bidder. It would have pissed me off for a good year to have missed out on that poster.
The guy who told me about it didn't have to. But he knew I had been looking for it. He was honorable about it. That is what this hobby should promote.
This is what collecting camaraderie should be about. Whoever tipped you off could have easily purchased it themselves and flipped it instead...
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How selfish is it to lock a thread based on unsubstantiated fear of competition?
Is that what it is about - "fear"? Or is it about disrespect and etiquette?
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blatant narcissism.
Getting these made up for certain forum members:
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQtSpITYsL-geOskHQ5gm5xGshpgSR74UgyLY4lQkEYmmAfDlOtnQ)
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Getting these made up for certain forum members:
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQtSpITYsL-geOskHQ5gm5xGshpgSR74UgyLY4lQkEYmmAfDlOtnQ)
It's ironic that the "anti-outing" crowd talk about "camaraderie" yet many are blatantly vitriolic toward fellow collectors who have a different opinion.
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It's ironic that the "anti-outing" crowd talk about "camaraderie" yet many are blatantly vitriolic toward fellow collectors who have a different opinion.
yep..
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It's ironic that the "anti-outing" crowd talk about "camaraderie" yet many are blatantly vitriolic toward fellow collectors who have a different opinion.
There's quite a disparity between a simple difference of opinion and the actions of those who chose to out auctions they have no intention themselves of bidding on...
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Mel what was your motivation in posting the auction?
Guess I'll never get an answer now eyeroll
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There's quite a disparity between a simple difference of opinion and the actions of those who chose to out auctions they have no intention themselves of bidding on...
Actions that were deemed "OK" by the powers that be, several years ago, yet some people who disagreed with the ruling have been blatantly vitriolic, and have turned their disagreement into this epic saga.
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Well as part of the Anti-outing crowd, I've never mentioned Camaraderie as such, I've always said collecting posters is a solitary hobby. Yes, a certain bunch of us help each other out, and that is done in private through emails, and phone calls.
It's nice to talk with like minded people on these forums, but what I do with regards to collecting is for my own pleasure. If all these forums ceased to be, it would not affect what and how I collect, and I would still have all my collector friends to share stories with.
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Actions that were deemed "OK" by the powers that be, several years ago, yet some people who disagreed with the ruling have been blatantly vitriolic, and have turned their disagreement into this epic saga.
Once 'the decision' was made I don't believe I've made any comments against it and I remember reading very few by others, until T started this thread.
You know, it's actually OK to re-evaluate things from time to time. Really. It won't kill you. It's a key step in process improvement...
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This thread might have run its course.
For my part, I will go with whatever the owners' wishes are - it's their environment, and theirs to do with as they please.
Thanks for having me, happy to stick around etc.
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Thanks for having me, happy to stick around etc.
What a novel attitude!
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I think it's better than the "short story" alternative. ;)
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I normally receive PM's about posters that people think I might want and have done the same. I have also shared information privately about posters, dealers, etc. And I DO appreciate those of you who are kind enough to tip me off about an upcoming auction with some good Bogies- odd right?
I was VERY unlucky with outing on this forum once. I secretly named and shamed who did it. I considered it then and still do to be a complete lack of etiquete. That said, lack of etiquete towards each other seems to be the norm here more often than not particularly lately.
For all that it counts, I believe in freedom of information and this forum has done an excellent job in ensuring a good exchange of views and information about the hobby. But ultimately those views should not offend. Perhaps we should think twice before posting, and not just in the middle thread if that were to remain open.
I can see this is a tough call and I wish T&H all the best in taking this forward.
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Not sure the thread needed to be pinned.
Hopefully the need to revisit the thread will go away, unlike Latest Acquisition, for example.
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Not sure the thread needed to be pinned.
Hopefully the need to revisit the thread will go away, unlike Latest Acquisition, for example.
I disagree. I think pinning it is the correct move, specifically so we don't have to have this discussion again. It is clearly a contentious issue around here and if the discussion gets buried it will surely surface again soon.
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I know that I’m a total ‘newb’ to this hobby and to the boards, but since this is the internet and everyone gets a voice… I’m going to chime in.
<Please understand that I’m trying to state my opinion on this matter and though it will not be in line with many of you, it’s just that, MY OPINION… I’m not intending to insult, berate or anger anyone…but I’d like to at least share MY OPINION. Hopefully, as the new guy you don't just skip over my .02>
First, I think it’s important that I explain that I have a number of hobbies and am pretty involved in each.
My primary interest is a collectible card game: Magic the Gathering. For years, I dealt in the original paintings done for the game.
Initially, there was very little involvement in this aspect of the hobby and I would often purchase original pieces of artwork from the artists in the range of $100-300 each. All was good. I had a small group of fellow collectors and we aided one another in searching out our wants.
As with most hobbies, word caught on and new individuals wanted to enter into ‘our’ market. We did our best to be accommodating and help them get started. Popularity grew and the paintings went from a few hundred to a few thousand. Also, it became an all out, every man for themselves market.
Initially, I was very turned off by this. Collectors that I helped teach the hobby were ‘outing’ pieces and costing me money- but more importantly pieces I wanted!
I wrestled with this for some time and then realized something… this is a hobby involving rare items (in that instance one of one paintings.) Whether I like it or not, the reality is deepest pockets win. I could want an original Hidlebrandt more than anyone else- but if the guys next to me can pay more, he wins. Period.
Ok… so do I get upset with the collectors ‘outing’ the available pieces? I could… but I feel that would be very selfish of me. I’d think it naïve to believe there aren’t other people in my hobby that would want the same things as me…and frankly they deserve the same right as me…if it’s available I want to know and they should too.
(Mind you, I was a dealer… so the casual collectors not only cut into my ability to collect, but to make money. - The game had to change and it took me awhile to come to grip with that.)
A few years ago I tried to get involved with coin collecting. I was new to the hobby and I stopped at a small coin shop. The gentleman there was extremely rude. He acted like the comic book guy from the Simpsons... I was a nuisance and not worth his time. In fact, I tried to join a number of forums as well and that was a general vibe I got from folks. Also, everyone was trying to help the fellow dealers on the site and the rest be damned. I said to hell with it and never bought another coin.
With posters, I didn’t know what to expect. Some folks here were great! I received many PMs from folks introducing themselves and making me feel welcome… what a wonderful feeling and one that makes me want to be a part of this hobby.
Then I see threads like this…
I understand both sides, but it comes across in my eyes as the big dogs upset because they are missing out on their wants and/or their ability to make more money…but in doing so, you are ostracizing the little guys that help make a hobby what it is…
What’s worse are the little ‘digs’ I keep seeing toward Mel…I only hope that they are in jest or stem from very strong friendships with him that I don’t know about… Frankly, Mel acted as an ambassador to me. Without his enthusiasm and welcoming nature I don’t know if I’d still be interested in this hobby. You need people like that or what good is the hobby in the long run?
Just remember the next time a poster you want gets ‘outed’, there’s someone on the other end of that auction that’s just excited about the piece as you… and in a hobby dealing with rarity deepest pockets win and every collector deserves a shot.
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I disagree. I think pinning it is the correct move, specifically so we don't have to have this discussion again. It is clearly a contentious issue around here and if the discussion gets buried it will surely surface again soon.
Fair point. Yes.
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I voted to lock it. Same way a jury gets sequestered, don't corrupt the results. Aren't insider deals the reason the economy has gone to sh-t anyway?
If you see something, tell me later, when the auction's over - or email/PM me if you think its something i missed and might be interested in. That's really what your intentions should be about. TELLING EVERYBODY, on the other hand, is more about personal ego (look how great I am, and look what I found)
My opinion, also as a new member. Just want to reiterate that I really appreciate APF and all you good people (CSM, Erik, Bruce etc) who comment on my posts bed1 :) :)
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Without his enthusiasm and welcoming nature I don’t know if I’d still be interested in this hobby.
This is in no way meant to be rude, but I don't understand why you need someone else's enthusiasm to fuel this hobby. Doesn't the passion come from within?
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This is in no way meant to be rude, but I don't understand why you need someone else's enthusiasm to fuel this hobby. Doesn't the passion come from within?
I feel a large part of any hobby is sharing it with like minded individuals.
If that weren't the case then there would be no "share your latest acquistion thread" Monthly pick up threads... or really forums like this at all.
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Maybe not. I guess I collected posters long before the internet and forums so never felt the need, or had the platform to share. 'Latest acquisitions' is my favourite thread though so maybe you have a good point :)
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I appreciate you sharing your thoughts Brian. If you look back through the mid-auction thread you'll see several bouts of this discussion over the last few years (and what I'm writing below has no doubt be better articulated by me in the past on multiple occasions). Clearly, many of us have already gotten our $0.02 in and everyone should have that option. However, I think this discussion may have veered off course...
As far as I know, NO ONE is advocating the limitation of discussion and/or the sharing of posters. That's what makes this place great. Sometimes we talk about our own acquisitions (monthly acquisitions thread), sometimes we discuss beautiful posters we might never be able to afford (strikes your fancy thread), sometimes we discuss genres (Bond, Hammer, etc...), sometimes we discuss authentication (mid-auction and authentication threads), and sometimes we talk about the crazy results achieved by certain posters -- whether high or low (post-auction thread). All of that discussion will and should of course continue.
What we are talking about here is only a tiny fraction of what is discussed at APF. For me it boils down to the pros and cons of outing auctions before they finish -- that emphasis is key to the whole thread.
Pro: Helps collectors -- I see this one as the most cited reason. If you think you are helping someone specific, remember there are probably 10+ visitors for every member you interact with here. So if you think you are talking to 20-30 people, you are really talking to 200-300+. When I started here, I envisioned my posting as akin to quietly sharing stock tips at a dinner party. However, I quickly realized it's more like sending out a PA at Disneyland!
Pro: Doesn't increase prices -- Yes, there is no proof that outing an auction will increase prices, but that is a two way street. I might impact prices every single time it happens and there would also be no proof. No data != proof.
Pro: More discussion -- Sure, but there is absolutely no reason it couldn't happen after auction. When this thread was started, even Mel suggested that super high profile auctions -- think Casablanca 6-sheet at Heritage or that Theda Bara Salome coming up at eMovie -- can be fun to discuss ahead of time and that discussion will likely not impact final prices. The mid-auction thread is also useful (IMO) to raise flags for fellow buyers for suspected bootleg posters or authenticity issues. It's also fun to laugh at some sellers who have ridiculous buy-it-now prices.
Con: Increases prices -- Sure, there will never be proof that this happens, but there is certainly no proof that it won't either.
Con: Increases competition -- Or the "monkey see, monkey do" effect. If you hang around here long enough you will certainly notice that buying habits are impacted by what is posted (i.e. Anything Gosling, Japanese B1s, Under Her Skin, etc...). It's only natural when you see new cool posters (even those outside your collecting interest) for some to expand into those spaces and increase the competition.
Con: No one posts what they are personally bidding on -- Not even Mel, who is beloved by so many. Mel and I had many discussions about his arbitrary outings in the past -- once they passed *his* price threshold, he thought they were fair game to post. Or if they weren't of interest to *him* personally, he thought they were ok to post. How can one person assume their wants/needs apply to everyone? That is is just being naive at best, reckless or spiteful it worst.
Even the *potential* for making my fellow collectors pay more or to increase their competition are reasons enough for me to NEVER out an ongoing auction. I stick to PMs and emails if my goal is to help fellow collectors. Sure, the mid-auction thread can be used carefully without hurting anyone -- and in the case of authentication issues, possibly helping people -- but there are other threads more appropriate for all three of the examples I posted.
This thread poll shows a nearly 50/50 split, and the discussion proves it's a very polarizing issue at that. If we could summarize this discussion concisely and put it at the front of the thread so people could at least weigh these issues before deciding to either post or wait until it's over to post (see, no limiting discussions!), great. I'd be all in favor of that as a reasonable compromise. However, if that is too complicated or T/H don't want to start down the slippery slope of codifying "rules" -- then I say lock it, which is how I voted.
All I know for sure, is there is no "Pro" on that list above that would compel me to post *before* an auction is finished. It can wait, 100% of the time.
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Just ask Bruce if you want to increase the price of your poster... when he "outs" them in his weekly member email, e.g. "there are steals and then there are STEALS...is this poster REALLY worth only ____?"
Usually bidding on that poster skyrockets right after... of course you can say it wasn't Bruce, that bidders were only waiting until closer to the auction to bid. Me, I say "The Bruce - the Midas Touch" 8)
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What a wonderfully reasoned and well balanced summary Matt. I have never outed a lot mid-auction either because of personal sensitivity to others. But everyone is different and while some would describe Mel's actions as selfish I and others ironically see them as altruistic. I totally believe in the unfettered exchange of information on this forum but of course our hosts ultimately decide the house rules.
Do you remember when the fake German Apocalypse Now was outed! I think we were both able to warn potential bidders that this item was not what it seemed.
Mark
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I appreciate you sharing your thoughts Brian. If you look back through the mid-auction thread you'll see several bouts of this discussion over the last few years (and what I'm writing below has no doubt be better articulated by me in the past on multiple occasions). Clearly, many of us have already gotten our $0.02 in and everyone should have that option. However, I think this discussion may have veered off course...
As far as I know, NO ONE is advocating the limitation of discussion and/or the sharing of posters. That's what makes this place great. Sometimes we talk about our own acquisitions (monthly acquisitions thread), sometimes we discuss beautiful posters we might never be able to afford (strikes your fancy thread), sometimes we discuss genres (Bond, Hammer, etc...), sometimes we discuss authentication (mid-auction and authentication threads), and sometimes we talk about the crazy results achieved by certain posters -- whether high or low (post-auction thread). All of that discussion will and should of course continue.
What we are talking about here is only a tiny fraction of what is discussed at APF. For me it boils down to the pros and cons of outing auctions before they finish -- that emphasis is key to the whole thread.
Pro: Helps collectors -- I see this one as the most cited reason. If you think you are helping someone specific, remember there are probably 10+ visitors for every member you interact with here. So if you think you are talking to 20-30 people, you are really talking to 200-300+. When I started here, I envisioned my posting as akin to quietly sharing stock tips at a dinner party. However, I quickly realized it's more like sending out a PA at Disneyland!
Pro: Doesn't increase prices -- Yes, there is no proof that outing an auction will increase prices, but that is a two way street. I might impact prices every single time it happens and there would also be no proof. No data != proof.
Pro: More discussion -- Sure, but there is absolutely no reason it couldn't happen after auction. When this thread was started, even Mel suggested that super high profile auctions -- think Casablanca 6-sheet at Heritage or that Theda Bara Salome coming up at eMovie -- can be fun to discuss ahead of time and that discussion will likely not impact final prices. The mid-auction thread is also useful (IMO) to raise flags for fellow buyers for suspected bootleg posters or authenticity issues. It's also fun to laugh at some sellers who have ridiculous buy-it-now prices.
Con: Increases prices -- Sure, there will never be proof that this happens, but there is certainly no proof that it won't either.
Con: Increases competition -- Or the "monkey see, monkey do" effect. If you hang around here long enough you will certainly notice that buying habits are impacted by what is posted (i.e. Anything Gosling, Japanese B1s, Under Her Skin, etc...). It's only natural when you see new cool posters (even those outside your collecting interest) for some to expand into those spaces and increase the competition.
Con: No one posts what they are personally bidding on -- Not even Mel, who is beloved by so many. Mel and I had many discussions about his arbitrary outings in the past -- once they passed *his* price threshold, he thought they were fair game to post. Or if they weren't of interest to *him* personally, he thought they were ok to post. How can one person assume their wants/needs apply to everyone? That is is just being naive at best, reckless or spiteful it worst.
Even the *potential* for making my fellow collectors pay more or to increase their competition are reasons enough for me to NEVER out an ongoing auction. I stick to PMs and emails if my goal is to help fellow collectors. Sure, the mid-auction thread can be used carefully without hurting anyone -- and in the case of authentication issues, possibly helping people -- but there are other threads more appropriate for all three of the examples I posted.
This thread poll shows a nearly 50/50 split, and the discussion proves it's a very polarizing issue at that. If we could summarize this discussion concisely and put it at the front of the thread so people could at least weigh these issues before deciding to either post or wait until it's over to post (see, no limiting discussions!), great. I'd be all in favor of that as a reasonable compromise. However, if that is too complicated or T/H don't want to start down the slippery slope of codifying "rules" -- then I say lock it, which is how I voted.
All I know for sure, is there is no "Pro" on that list above that would compel me to post *before* an auction is finished. It can wait, 100% of the time.
clap
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Well said Matt, but the lack of proof thing.... Maybe we make our own mind up about proof. However for me several occurrences, the first being a member on here asking a question about the validity of a poster, and posting it to the board. Within 10mins the poster was snapped up ( was on a buy it now ), by another member who had seen the post. Another time an auction was outed, the number of watchers shot up within a day, and the poster ended up going for much more than it should have...Coincidence... I don't think so.
If you have a business to run, the more you advertise, the more clients you will pull in.. Same thing when selling posters. So...to bag a bargain, the least amount of people who know the more chance we have. Yes some one with more money may already know about it, but why take that chance. I find the missing thing here is Common-sense.
Ask yourselves why Bruce, Rich, Vectis, and others advertise on here? if it didn't pull in more buyers they wouldn't bother, and we all know about their auctions.
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...
Pro: Doesn't increase prices -- Yes, there is no proof that outing an auction will increase prices, but that is a two way street. I might impact prices every single time it happens and there would also be no proof. No data != proof.
Pro: More discussion -- Sure, but there is absolutely no reason it couldn't happen after auction. When this thread was started, even Mel suggested that super high profile auctions -- think Casablanca 6-sheet at Heritage or that Theda Bara Salome coming up at eMovie -- can be fun to discuss ahead of time and that discussion will likely not impact final prices. The mid-auction thread is also useful (IMO) to raise flags for fellow buyers for suspected bootleg posters or authenticity issues. It's also fun to laugh at some sellers who have ridiculous buy-it-now prices.
Con: Increases prices -- Sure, there will never be proof that this happens, but there is certainly no proof that it won't either.
Con: Increases competition -- Or the "monkey see, monkey do" effect. If you hang around here long enough you will certainly notice that buying habits are impacted by what is posted (i.e. Anything Gosling, Japanese B1s, Under Her Skin, etc...). It's only natural when you see new cool posters (even those outside your collecting interest) for some to expand into those spaces and increase the competition.
Con: No one posts what they are personally bidding on -- Not even Mel, who is beloved by so many. Mel and I had many discussions about his arbitrary outings in the past -- once they passed *his* price threshold, he thought they were fair game to post. Or if they weren't of interest to *him* personally, he thought they were ok to post. How can one person assume their wants/needs apply to everyone? That is is just being naive at best, reckless or spiteful it worst.
...
I agree with what you wrote, but I'd suggest that there is plenty of evidence that outing auctions (which is simply another form of advertising auctions) increases prices (overall), but it's not the kind of 'proof' the other side of the argument wants to believe, much like with Evolution. The evidence is overwhelming.
There are people who just search for low visibility auctions, buy on the cheap, and then flip in higher profile arenas (or just higher profile auctions within the same arena - eBay). You advertise those low profile auction and they are no longer low profile, killing the profit margin.
But everyone is different and while some would describe Mel's actions as selfish I and others ironically see them as altruistic.
The part about...
Not even Mel, who is beloved by so many. Mel and I had many discussions about his arbitrary outings in the past -- once they passed *his* price threshold, he thought they were fair game to post. Or if they weren't of interest to *him* personally, he thought they were ok to post. How can one person assume their wants/needs apply to everyone?
...removes altruism from the equation.
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Just ask Bruce if you want to increase the price of your poster... when he "outs" them in his weekly member email, e.g. "there are steals and then there are STEALS...is this poster REALLY worth only ____?"
Usually bidding on that poster skyrockets right after... of course you can say it wasn't Bruce, that bidders were only waiting until closer to the auction to bid. Me, I say "The Bruce - the Midas Touch" 8)
"The Bruce - the Midas Touch"
I've got that going for me!
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Thierry and I talked today and he brought up the fact that lurkers frequent this forum much more than actual members, and there's where the competition could come from. I don't think the folks here mind the competition from one another. But Thierry's point is that we're outing auctions to people who do not participate here, and then who compete against us with information provided by us.
We're considering locking down the forum so that only members can see posts. We're also going to look at whether we can lock down particular threads while leaving other areas open.
We shall see....
And others shall not....I just logged in and out to see what changes were made to the main page during this debate....and will wonders never cease...the Movie Posters heading seemed to have become mighty thin of subject matter...this thread along with mid-auction has already been locked to non-members....even though the vote is apparently still open...this discussion/debate and the 230+ pages of knowledge and views within the mid-auction may be closed to "members" only...but do all the members know this??????
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Having threads that are members only might encourage more of the lurkers to join and actually provide something, instead of just taking...
I don't see a down side...
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;D I bet you're wearing an all poster forum Members Only Jacket right now ;D
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I appreciate you sharing your thoughts Brian. If you look back through the mid-auction thread you'll see several bouts of this discussion over the last few years (and what I'm writing below has no doubt be better articulated by me in the past on multiple occasions). Clearly, many of us have already gotten our $0.02 in and everyone should have that option. However, I think this discussion may have veered off course...
As far as I know, NO ONE is advocating the limitation of discussion and/or the sharing of posters. That's what makes this place great. Sometimes we talk about our own acquisitions (monthly acquisitions thread), sometimes we discuss beautiful posters we might never be able to afford (strikes your fancy thread), sometimes we discuss genres (Bond, Hammer, etc...), sometimes we discuss authentication (mid-auction and authentication threads), and sometimes we talk about the crazy results achieved by certain posters -- whether high or low (post-auction thread). All of that discussion will and should of course continue.
What we are talking about here is only a tiny fraction of what is discussed at APF. For me it boils down to the pros and cons of outing auctions before they finish -- that emphasis is key to the whole thread.
Pro: Helps collectors -- I see this one as the most cited reason. If you think you are helping someone specific, remember there are probably 10+ visitors for every member you interact with here. So if you think you are talking to 20-30 people, you are really talking to 200-300+. When I started here, I envisioned my posting as akin to quietly sharing stock tips at a dinner party. However, I quickly realized it's more like sending out a PA at Disneyland!
Pro: Doesn't increase prices -- Yes, there is no proof that outing an auction will increase prices, but that is a two way street. I might impact prices every single time it happens and there would also be no proof. No data != proof.
Pro: More discussion -- Sure, but there is absolutely no reason it couldn't happen after auction. When this thread was started, even Mel suggested that super high profile auctions -- think Casablanca 6-sheet at Heritage or that Theda Bara Salome coming up at eMovie -- can be fun to discuss ahead of time and that discussion will likely not impact final prices. The mid-auction thread is also useful (IMO) to raise flags for fellow buyers for suspected bootleg posters or authenticity issues. It's also fun to laugh at some sellers who have ridiculous buy-it-now prices.
Con: Increases prices -- Sure, there will never be proof that this happens, but there is certainly no proof that it won't either.
Con: Increases competition -- Or the "monkey see, monkey do" effect. If you hang around here long enough you will certainly notice that buying habits are impacted by what is posted (i.e. Anything Gosling, Japanese B1s, Under Her Skin, etc...). It's only natural when you see new cool posters (even those outside your collecting interest) for some to expand into those spaces and increase the competition.
Con: No one posts what they are personally bidding on -- Not even Mel, who is beloved by so many. Mel and I had many discussions about his arbitrary outings in the past -- once they passed *his* price threshold, he thought they were fair game to post. Or if they weren't of interest to *him* personally, he thought they were ok to post. How can one person assume their wants/needs apply to everyone? That is is just being naive at best, reckless or spiteful it worst.
Even the *potential* for making my fellow collectors pay more or to increase their competition are reasons enough for me to NEVER out an ongoing auction. I stick to PMs and emails if my goal is to help fellow collectors. Sure, the mid-auction thread can be used carefully without hurting anyone -- and in the case of authentication issues, possibly helping people -- but there are other threads more appropriate for all three of the examples I posted.
This thread poll shows a nearly 50/50 split, and the discussion proves it's a very polarizing issue at that. If we could summarize this discussion concisely and put it at the front of the thread so people could at least weigh these issues before deciding to either post or wait until it's over to post (see, no limiting discussions!), great. I'd be all in favor of that as a reasonable compromise. However, if that is too complicated or T/H don't want to start down the slippery slope of codifying "rules" -- then I say lock it, which is how I voted.
All I know for sure, is there is no "Pro" on that list above that would compel me to post *before* an auction is finished. It can wait, 100% of the time.
clap
clap
Hear Hear!
Post of the decade!
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Con: No one posts what they are personally bidding on -- Not even Mel, who is beloved by so many. Mel and I had many discussions about his arbitrary outings in the past -- once they passed *his* price threshold, he thought they were fair game to post. Or if they weren't of interest to *him* personally, he thought they were ok to post. How can one person assume their wants/needs apply to everyone? That is is just being naive at best, reckless or spiteful it worst.
Well-reasoned post Matt.
And, not to belabour the point, but what I have quoted from your post is of course the single most glaring issue for me.
This fact alone clearly shows that those who out auctions fear that outing them will increase competition and prices...
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clap
Hear Hear!
Post of the decade!
Agree. It is a gem post. Thanks Matt for taking the time to write this. Excellent if I may say so.
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This thread ROCKS!
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But one steadfast rule shall remain in effect:
"All really good Ebay deals on half-nekkid women and bug-eyed monster posters should be pm'd to Brude before ANY other actions are taken. Just need to send a link, no return address necessary."
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But one steadfast rule shall remain in effect:
"All really good Ebay deals on half-nekkid women and bug-eyed monster posters should be pm'd to Brude before ANY other actions are taken. Just need to send a link, no return address necessary."
;D
clap clap clap
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ebay sez : We're here , we're queer and you better get used to it....talk to da hand !
(get it , "outing"......chuckles :P
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Wow, that was a long read. Now I see why Mel left. I'm admin on a gaming forum and we had to stop the links to eBay due to people joining and just posting their own auctions but this is something else. I really don't know if I should vote at all. I am very new here, not a big collector (yet) and if this issue applied to our forum I'd probably make the thread members only. In fact we had a marketplace section more than once and had to shut it down each time for other reasons. I have no problem seeing things from both sides but what Crazy Vick said (quote below) seems to hit true to me with the one exception of knowing just who you would PM.
If you see something, tell me later, when the auction's over - or email/PM me if you think its something i missed and might be interested in. That's really what your intentions should be about. TELLING EVERYBODY, on the other hand, is more about personal ego (look how great I am, and look what I found)
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Do vote, your a member and you have the same rights as all of us......None.. ;)
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The thread has been alive for four years and has well over 200 pages. How many times has there been discussions of closing it down/stopping it? I like the idea of keeping it hidden from people who just find the thread with a goolge search and do not participate here, just leaching. I don't want to hit the Lock button, I wish a third option was there.
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The thread has been alive for four years and has well over 200 pages. How many times has there been discussions of closing it down/stopping it? I like the idea of keeping it hidden from people who just find the thread with a goolge search and do not participate here, just leaching. I don't want to hit the Lock button, I wish a third option was there.
Yes, there is a blocking option for the thread that is the likeliest outcome.
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I was on David and Charlie's site earlier and they have a similar poll that shows a commanding vote against outing auctions. I would say, at best, that it's 50/50.
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I was on David and Charlie's site earlier and they have a similar poll that shows a commanding vote against outing auctions. I would say, at best, that it's 50/50.
When you remove dealer votes, how does it look?
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It should be closer than that, as Charlie said he'd ticked the wrong box, but didn't want to cause a fuss getting it swapped...
And then take any dealers out.
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The non-active, but registered members also had a vote, which likely inflated the keep it open vote...
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Take a look at this and say it makes no difference...
http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,8457.25.html
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Now that Mel is gone, I don't think it will be much of an issue anymore, Paul.
T
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Now that Mel is gone, I don't think it will be much of an issue anymore, Paul.
T
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/9b/9b240eaa9a8bcca1a8575a4caa2876d174ac51825e7f29206a67d88300fe0db1.jpg)
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Not as such on here, NS4 have that pleasure now.. He can't be getting much traffic through his face-tube page, he seems to be permanently posting on NS4 trying to drum up interest....
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Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
By the way, Mel and Adam are both fitting in well, and welcome.
On a side note, in the nine years that NSFGE has been around I don't recall this subject ever being an issue, I could be wrong, but if it was ever bought up it never was like it has been here.
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On a side note, in the nine years that NSFGE has been around I don't recall this subject ever being an issue, I could be wrong, but if it was ever bought up it never was like it has been here.
Are issues often "bought up?" What's the cost? Is barter ever allowed? dontknow.gif
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Ummm, oops. I'll trade a poster for a "r"
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Ummm, oops. I'll trade a poster for a "r"
Signed or unsigned? girly2.gif
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Signed to "A...i"
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Sweet-ness!!
girly.gif
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I'm afraid this happens in lots of other collecting fields too. There are always people who like to reveal a find when they have no intention of following it up themselves. I can only assume they get a degree of detective-like kudos for sharing the discovery but too often this can play into the hands of the biggest and wealthiest collectors who then move in and hoover things up. Personally I like to see research work rewarded with a successful purchase for the person or people who've actually made the effort and given themselves eye strain and rsi through staring incessantly at screens. Surely that is the reward for our suffering! But post sale exposés can be fascinating.
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I'm afraid this happens in lots of other collecting fields too. There are always people who like to reveal a find when they have no intention of following it up themselves. I can only assume they get a degree of detective-like kudos for sharing the discovery but too often this can play into the hands of the biggest and wealthiest collectors who then move in and hoover things up. Personally I like to see research work rewarded with a successful purchase for the person or people who've actually made the effort and given themselves eye strain and rsi through staring incessantly at screens. Surely that is the reward for our suffering! But post sale exposés can be fascinating.
clap
Even the guy with one eye can see clearly!
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Seconded clap
Well said that fellow.
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Even the guy with one eye can see clearly!
Good to see a bit of quasi Erasmus on a Sunday morning...or should that be H G Wells?
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I'm afraid this happens in lots of other collecting fields too. There are always people who like to reveal a find when they have no intention of following it up themselves. I can only assume they get a degree of detective-like kudos for sharing the discovery but too often this can play into the hands of the biggest and wealthiest collectors who then move in and hoover things up. Personally I like to see research work rewarded with a successful purchase for the person or people who've actually made the effort and given themselves eye strain and rsi through staring incessantly at screens. Surely that is the reward for our suffering! But post sale exposés can be fascinating.
I like this guy.
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Yawn....this is still the most lame brained knuckle headed debate on this forum...the Internet as a research tool should not only reward the cheap consumer....anyone brave enough to pay more for a dumb piece of paper wants it more...it doesn't matter how they found the auction...or listing...and once again there is absolutely no proof that outed auctions command a greater price...it's a pretend dream world..there is a single word that balances perfectly between both sides of this argument...SPECULATION...what a poster sells for "outed" or not....whether a savvy collector or wealthy dealer knows about the coveted poster you are nervously trying to acquire the cheapest way possible...sometimes they pull the trigger sometimes they have bigger fish to fry...there are more posters available than buyers...this plays both ways...sometimes posters sell for more...sometimes for less...on the Internet they are widely seen whether you think so or not...80% of the poster collectors/sellers/dealers that I have done business with over the past 15+ years are not involved on this forum...they are active in waves ...in all good fun... STOP being such whiny complaining pussies...just bid what your comfortable with....whether it's Heritage or eBay or an estate sale....no one has been outing auctions for the last 6 months here...this is now a straw man argument....posters are still selling too high and too low....once again....it's called SPECULATION......which will always be the end result of this stupid argument
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...and once again there is absolutely no proof that outed auctions command a greater price...
This is the most lame brained quote of this entire thread...
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..there are more posters available than buyers
Not true in my non-movie field. Multiple copies can and do survive but nothing that would match the quantity available to the modern film poster collector.
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Archie.....you're turning into a troll....this whole argument is speculation....i am surprised you cant see that...i will be skeptical about it until there is convincing proof......how can you possibly prove a poster "would" have sold for more or less as an absolute....you can't.... the nature of the hobby is volatile and speculative to begin with...under scrutiny your argument just falls flat.......and here is the definition for you so you can understand what proof means...
PROOF - evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth.
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Not true in my non-movie field. Multiple copies can and do survive but nothing that would match the quantity available to the modern film poster collector.
Monocle.....there are more posters available today than ever before.....the wal marting of posters mixed with the large signature auction offerings far outnumbers the amount of willing and competitive buyers ..the point is there are plenty of posters that get tepid results from over saturation.... of the myriad reasons why poster prices are volatile...there is the simple fact that there are too many auctions and listings going on at any given time....plus tens of thousands of choices from websites and the never-ending eBay listings.....it's overwhelming...if you have some extra time here is a challenge for someone
December is usually a pretty active month for buying and selling....between now and January 1st 2015...count how many auctioned posters there are between....Heritage, emovie, movieposterbid, eBay, bonhams , profiles in history, coys, Christies etc....
Post that information and then we can really talk about why prices are are all over the place....
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December is usually a pretty active month for buying and selling....between now and January 1st 2015...count how many auctioned posters there are between....Heritage, emovie, movieposterbid, eBay, bonhams , profiles in history, coys, Christies etc....
I am outing them all!!!!!!!! :o
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That's hilarious....
please do...then we can pretend that they would have sold for more or less
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Archie.....you're turning into a troll....this whole argument is speculation....i am surprised you cant see that...i will be skeptical about it until there is convincing proof......how can you possibly prove a poster "would" have sold for more or less as an absolute....you can't.... the nature of the hobby is volatile and speculative to begin with...under scrutiny your argument just falls flat.......and here is the definition for you so you can understand what proof means...
PROOF - evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth.
Advertising comes in many forms and to deny the effects is idiotic...
That US advertisers spent $171.01 billion on paid media in 2013 should be enough proof for even the logically challenged.
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(http://www.emarketer.com/images/chart_gifs/161001-162000/161679.gif)
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Advertising comes in many forms and to deny the effects is idiotic...
That US advertisers spent $171.01 billion on paid media in 2013 should be enough proof for even the logically challenged.
clap
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Sigh....
....I somehow forgot multinational corporations spent $171 billion outing ebay auctions on this forum
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Ok I will start by outing all of Rich's auctions.
Ok all done ;)
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BTW, that's mom & pops as well as multinationals.
Some companies spend millions on 'free' advertising of the type that we are discussing (forum posts/social/general internet chatter). This smaller the overall market, the greater the effect of such advertising.
I'm sorry if you don't have a basic understanding of the field.
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Monocle.....there are more posters available today than ever before.....the wal marting of posters mixed with the large signature auction offerings far outnumbers the amount of willing and competitive buyers
Ah, I think we're talking at cross purposes here - particularly as I've never seen a 'Walmart'. I assume you are specifically referring to movie posters from recent decades whereas my own collection is largely pre 1900. A teensy bit different!
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Mon.....wal marting is a neologism...a newly coined term...it isn't in reference to just modern movie posters....in this case I was using "wal marting" to describe over saturation of posters on the market...that just means flooding the market with tens of thousands of worthless posters at a cheap price (with a few nice ones mixed in as bait)....eventually this saturation keeps the prices low because there are not enough buyers/bidders to keep prices competitive...it is bad stewardship of the material AND it does the hobby a disservice....if you look at the dregs of eBay...there are plenty of 1920's-1940's material listed for peanuts...and they are not selling...one of the main culprits even had a heated debate on this here forum about REFUSING to take any more crap posters from people...and making a judgement call on what was good or not....that speaks volumes...
And Mon I mostly collect vintage posters from 1900's-1940's....but also antique engravings, maps and prints from 1500's-1800's...there is "wal marting" in those areas too...it's amazing how many beautifully rendered engravings from the 1700's that sell for less than $20...there is just more paper than collectors...the Internet has magnified that reality
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Mon.....wal marting is a neologism...a newly coined term...it isn't in reference to just modern movie posters....in this case I was using "wal marting" to describe over saturation of posters on the market...that just means flooding the market with tens of thousands of worthless posters at a cheap price (with a few nice ones mixed in as bait)....eventually this saturation keeps the prices low because there are not enough buyers/bidders to keep prices competitive...it is bad stewardship of the material AND it does the hobby a disservice....if you look at the dregs of eBay...there are plenty of 1920's-1940's material listed for peanuts...and they are not selling...one of the main culprits even had a heated debate on this here forum about REFUSING to take any more crap posters from people...and making a judgement call on what was good or not....that speaks volumes...
And Mon I mostly collect vintage posters from 1900's-1940's....but also antique engravings, maps and prints from 1500's-1800's...there is "wal marting" in those areas too...it's amazing how many beautifully rendered engravings from the 1700's that sell for less than $20...there is just more paper than collectors...the Internet has magnified that reality
One interesting observation I have made, too, in posters listed in the Pre-1940s section (or even a good number of those posters listed in the '40s or '50s decades), are the much higher prices that sellers have attached for lesser or even more unknown films. A good number of sellers are also of the thinking that because a poster is from 1934, for example, that it automatically is worth hundreds or thousands of dollars. That isn't the case, and is the reason that many of those posters, too, sit and languish on the bay for months or longer.
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Speaking of outing posters, what happened to Mel? Is he still collecting? Is anyone still in touch with him? The last I heard he was going to create a Facebook page or something like that.
T
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Mon.....wal marting is a neologism...a newly coined term...it isn't in reference to just modern movie posters....in this case I was using "wal marting" to describe over saturation of posters on the market...that just means flooding the market with tens of thousands of worthless posters at a cheap price (with a few nice ones mixed in as bait)....eventually this saturation keeps the prices low because there are not enough buyers/bidders to keep prices competitive...it is bad stewardship of the material AND it does the hobby a disservice....if you look at the dregs of eBay...there are plenty of 1920's-1940's material listed for peanuts...and they are not selling...one of the main culprits even had a heated debate on this here forum about REFUSING to take any more crap posters from people...and making a judgement call on what was good or not....that speaks volumes...
And Mon I mostly collect vintage posters from 1900's-1940's....but also antique engravings, maps and prints from 1500's-1800's...there is "wal marting" in those areas too...it's amazing how many beautifully rendered engravings from the 1700's that sell for less than $20...there is just more paper than collectors...the Internet has magnified that reality
Yeah, and everyone's silver set they inherited from their great grandparents used to be a treasured heirloom until eBay came along and it now 95% of it sells for melt value. What's your point? You seem to be mad at the internet, first and foremost, for destroying the notion of perceived rarity. Would you prefer a world of cartels and monopolies where plentiful material is manipulated to seem rare? Yay De Beers!
By the way, who are you to say what something *should* be worth (if only eBay and eMovieposter didn't screw it all up moron1)? Seems to me that is a question for markets to answer.... you know supply and demand? Due to lack of knowledge and information sharing, posters seemed rare pre-internet, prices slowly increased. Post-internet, more people learn about the existence of the hobby and more sellers and sales venues pop up to cash in, market gets flooded, prices correct. This is surprising why?
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Matt...I'm not mad at all...your mistaken....I actually love the Internet...75% of my collection was purchased this way...I live in Maui so it is really the only avenue available for me.....I was making an observation and speaking to Monocle who misinterpreted what I was saying earlier...most of the material I collect sells in the $1000 and over range so this issue doesn't really affect me like it does others....not that I prefer expensive material....it was what I gravitated towards when I started collecting...I would rather have a Duck Soup window card than a b movie western from the 1950's...that's a different discussion...
I agree debeers is a scam....and I don't want your grandmas silverware to be worthless....perceived rarity is a market to market translation anyway....how many times have you seen posters move from emovie to eBay and sell for more...or vice versa...and sometimes Heritage sells something common for 5 times the price....poster selling/collecting is a volatile and speculative market anyway....up until a few years ago there was not mass dumping of posters in the market....maybe you disagree that it's bad stewardship....I think it does the hobby a disservice
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One of the first things I learnt about collecting antiques was this. An item is only worth what you actually succeed in getting for it. Not it's estimated value, or suggested valuation or the price it got ten years ago but the cash you are left with in your pocket when you finally give in and sell it.
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That's exactly right....don't let anyone tell you differently....
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One of the first things I learnt about collecting antiques was this. An item is only worth what you actually succeed in getting for it. Not it's estimated value, or suggested valuation or the price it got ten years ago but the cash you are left with in your pocket when you finally give in and sell it.
thumbsup.gif
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Speaking of outing posters, what happened to Mel? Is he still collecting? Is anyone still in touch with him? The last I heard he was going to create a Facebook page or something like that.
T
Been meaning to stop by and see Mel. I know he slowed way down with posters. He had his facebook page up immediately after resigning from APF. He posted links in his very last post.
https://facebook.com/PosterNirvana
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Yawn....this is still the most lame brained knuckle headed debate on this forum...the Internet as a research tool should not only reward the cheap consumer....anyone brave enough to pay more for a dumb piece of paper wants it more...it doesn't matter how they found the auction...or listing...and once again there is absolutely no proof that outed auctions command a greater price...it's a pretend dream world..there is a single word that balances perfectly between both sides of this argument...SPECULATION...what a poster sells for "outed" or not....whether a savvy collector or wealthy dealer knows about the coveted poster you are nervously trying to acquire the cheapest way possible...sometimes they pull the trigger sometimes they have bigger fish to fry...there are more posters available than buyers...this plays both ways...sometimes posters sell for more...sometimes for less...on the Internet they are widely seen whether you think so or not...80% of the poster collectors/sellers/dealers that I have done business with over the past 15+ years are not involved on this forum...they are active in waves ...in all good fun... STOP being such whiny complaining pussies...just bid what your comfortable with....whether it's Heritage or eBay or an estate sale....no one has been outing auctions for the last 6 months here...this is now a straw man argument....posters are still selling too high and too low....once again....it's called SPECULATION......which will always be the end result of this stupid argument
I totally agree
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Monocle.....there are more posters available today than ever before.....the wal marting of posters mixed with the large signature auction offerings far outnumbers the amount of willing and competitive buyers ..the point is there are plenty of posters that get tepid results from over saturation.... of the myriad reasons why poster prices are volatile...there is the simple fact that there are too many auctions and listings going on at any given time....plus tens of thousands of choices from websites and the never-ending eBay listings.....it's overwhelming...if you have some extra time here is a challenge for someone
December is usually a pretty active month for buying and selling....between now and January 1st 2015...count how many auctioned posters there are between....Heritage, emovie, movieposterbid, eBay, bonhams , profiles in history, coys, Christies etc....
Post that information and then we can really talk about why prices are are all over the place....
again I totally agree
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Ok I will start by outing all of Rich's auctions.
Ok all done ;)
get on it again in 10 days or so..
:P
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Mon.....wal marting is a neologism...a newly coined term...it isn't in reference to just modern movie posters....in this case I was using "wal marting" to describe over saturation of posters on the market...that just means flooding the market with tens of thousands of worthless posters at a cheap price (with a few nice ones mixed in as bait)....eventually this saturation keeps the prices low because there are not enough buyers/bidders to keep prices competitive...it is bad stewardship of the material AND it does the hobby a disservice....if you look at the dregs of eBay...there are plenty of 1920's-1940's material listed for peanuts...and they are not selling...one of the main culprits even had a heated debate on this here forum about REFUSING to take any more crap posters from people...and making a judgement call on what was good or not....that speaks volumes...
again, total agreement with Tait on this issue. especially the bolded statement
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A good number of sellers are also of the thinking that because a poster is from 1934, for example, that it automatically is worth hundreds or thousands of dollars. That isn't the case, and is the reason that many of those posters, too, sit and languish on the bay for months or longer.
also true
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get on it again in 10 days or so..
:P
Oh man i gotta start outing all your auctions in 10 days or are you trouble shooting still?
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Oh man i gotta start outing all your auctions in 10 days or are you trouble shooting still?
we're installing a new software.. but we still have to do some customizations
you can actually bid on some test auctions that are listed right now
bidding works exactly as it should and as a matter of fact, all member issues work perfectly.
the customizations involve things in the back end that I need and the invoicer part doesn't merge wins properly, but we can just use the other invoicing app if we can't get a fast customization
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Been meaning to stop by and see Mel. I know he slowed way down with posters. He had his facebook page up immediately after resigning from APF. He posted links in his very last post.
https://facebook.com/PosterNirvana
October 25, the last time he posted? Wtf?
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he seems happy, we email, its the new way to send a letter :p
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October 25, the last time he posted? Wtf?
Maybe he finally found a woman friend who wasn't printed on paper
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Maybe he finally found a woman friend who wasn't printed on paper
GoOn.gif
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Funny you talking about Mel. We emailed recently and he seems ok, not buying much though he might bid this Sat at HA auction. He is well. Or I hope he is...
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Funny you talking about Mel. We emailed recently and he seems ok, not buying much though he might bid this Sat at HA auction. He is well. Or I hope he is...
What auctions will he bid on? Seem appropriate to post here. 8)
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What auctions will he bid on? Seem appropriate to post here. 8)
;D ;D
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What auctions will he bid on? Seem appropriate to post here. 8)
rofl1 rofl1 rofl1
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I totally agree
+1
There are only a few specific examples of outing, where there is a clear case that the outing resulted in a higher final price, such as the E.T. concept poster that T said he bid on after hearing about the auction here. The issue of outing is a matter of ethics, and IMO, it's not a black and white, right or wrong issue.
FilmLobbyCards, you live on Maui? That must be awesome, eh?
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Fine lines between Poster events that advertise up and coming auctions, and Outing a specific product. Indeed, I cannot see the difference.
For me, it is the internet. Free movement of information by people essentially trying to be helpful.
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Fine lines between Poster events that advertise up and coming auctions, and Outing a specific product. Indeed, I cannot see the difference.
For me, it is the internet. Free movement of information by people essentially trying to be helpful.
+1
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Nothing 'helpful' about it. Just knee-jerk mindlessness, and a general disregard to other's interests and wallets.
(Just to calm the irrational storm, has to be said from time to time).
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Hold on chaps, I always thought being 'helpful' was assisting an old lady to cross the road? This other sort of 'help' doesn't really 'help' me. Somebody else (with no interest themselves) finding a specific item I've researched tediously, and then alerting all and sundry to its existence, is simply going to make me age so quickly I won't even be able to cross my own bedroom.
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+1
There are only a few specific examples of outing, where there is a clear case that the outing resulted in a higher final price, such as the E.T. concept poster that T said he bid on after hearing about the auction here. The issue of outing is a matter of ethics, and IMO, it's not a black and white, right or wrong issue.
FilmLobbyCards, you live on Maui? That must be awesome, eh?
I was wrong about T saying he bid on the E.T. concept poster, after finding out about it via being outed here.
What if I told you I didn't know about this auction until Mel outed it, Mark?
Well, that's not the case, but it could have been.
Btw, congrats to you. I wish I had known you collect this sort of thing as it wasn't this important to me. I talked to Chris about it the day before, when it was at $50, and told him I wasn't going to bid because it was too expensive :). Then 5 minutes before the auction, as I was feeding my kids, I decided to go for it. Next time you see a Spielberg thing like this, talk to me.
T
My mistake about my last post here.
I was trying to think of a mid-auction that was outed here, and someone acknowledged he/she had not heard about or planned on bidding on, and then bid on it, after finding out about it here. I thought that there were a couple other examples of this happening, but after looking through some old posts, I can't find one example.
Fine lines between Poster events that advertise up and coming auctions, and Outing a specific product. Indeed, I cannot see the difference.
For me, it is the internet. Free movement of information by people essentially trying to be helpful.
+2
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Hold on chaps, I always thought being 'helpful' was assisting an old lady to cross the road? This other sort of 'help' doesn't really 'help' me. Somebody else (with no interest themselves) finding a specific item I've researched tediously, and then alerting all and sundry to its existence, is simply going to make me age so quickly I won't even be able to cross my own bedroom.
But with respect, how would you have researched tediously, or tirelessly, without the help of people on the internet and perhaps specifically on forums such as this one?
For my individual part, I would take my increased knowledge and perhaps heightened awareness of 'what was out there' as a result of the internet (and all that that means) over and above 'perhaps' being made to pay something over the odds if no one knew else about 'it' - this 'it', that even I might not have known about other than for the fact of having read the internet.
There is a phrase, the technicality of which I cannot get my head around, which basically says, 'you can't have your cake and eat it.' The argument of, why the hell else one would want a cake if Not to eat it aside, you know what I mean. The internet means, the information will get out.
Brave New World.
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(http://blogs.studentlife.utoronto.ca/lifeatuoft/files/2013/08/What.gif)
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Why EBay ?
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I'd love to see a poll about what political party or leanings the two sides have in this debate
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Yeah, brilliant. The relationship is clearly telling and relevant.
(http://www.crown.nu/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/testdrunk.jpg)
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Oh Wonkas, I am aware a picture can say a thousand words but you really have to choose better pictures.
You're welcome1
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Nah, I'm good.
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Yeah, brilliant. The relationship is clearly telling and relevant.
certainly more brilliant than your dismissive & seemingly intolerant comments on the issue
for instance, while I disagree with people in the thread, I believe that each person's opinion on the subject is worthy, while you wish to paint those who disagree with you on the subject with dismissive & belittling comments, though I am certain you don't see them that way.
I know you are a Republican or similar in political orientation and I'm certainly a Democrat. I would bet that these political affiliations do indeed have bearing on what positions are taken on the issue in this thread..
of course, it's all part of an intelligent discourse, which isn't always the avenue of the intolerant
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I aree with good discourse and discussion, of course..
But at the same time, I would hope that this thread doesn't turn into a political one.
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Rich, you are the resident bully and poster child (pun intended) of dismissiveness around here, nothing new.
The irony of what you label me here is especially egregious, even by your usual and standard dreck you post.
So you once had me pegged as a minister, and now a Republican. Simply amazing.
Not that its your business, but to quickly shoot a hole in your latest 'theory', I am a Dem.
I would like to think that my party has had the welfare of mankind in the forefront of their agenda more so than the folks on the other side of the aisle, but I guess that is wrong in this regard.
Still want to do your poll?
Want to offer up any other stories about me? I'll wait.
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the point of my earlier question was not to turn this into a political thread, but as a scientific example to see how opinions align..
as to the discussion, I'm so totally shocked you claim to be a Democrat.. I can't believe that.
Beyond that Ben, I'm no bully - I just point out honest truths about people that they usually don't like to hear.
You don't think you're dismissive towards opinions that are opposite of yours?
Here are some examples in this thread alone that couldn't be described as anything but dismissive
Neo pointed it out a couple times.. you couldn't see it. Which is not surprising to me
This is what it boils down to.
Unless Mel, you are cool with giving us your ebay password so we can log in and check out what you are eying up.
Otherwise, its just inconsiderate on every level.
Arrogance and ignorance rules supreme 'round here. Sad.
Case in point: most are offended by your input here, but we all seem to deal with it.
Nothing 'helpful' about it. Just knee-jerk mindlessness, and a general disregard to other's interests and wallets.
(Just to calm the irrational storm, has to be said from time to time).
Yeah, brilliant. The relationship is clearly telling and relevant.
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I'm as liberal as can be and I'm totally against outing auctions. Are we on the same page, Rich?
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the point of my earlier question was not to turn this into a political thread, but as a scientific example to see how opinions align..
as to the discussion, I'm so totally shocked you claim to be a Democrat.. I can't believe that.
Beyond that Ben, I'm no bully - I just point out honest truths about people that they usually don't like to hear.
You don't think you're dismissive towards opinions that are opposite of yours?
Here are some examples in this thread alone that couldn't be described as anything but dismissive
Neo pointed it out a couple times.. you couldn't see it. Which is not surprising to me
So many headaches. So many options here...I'll just do:
Honest truths? Like how I was a minister? Or a Republican?
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I'm as liberal as can be and I'm totally against outing auctions. Are we on the same page, Rich?
nope.. but as I said, I'm only interested in the question as a scientific or intellectual issue, much the same as any issue regarding anything and how it lines up on a graph.
it's just a curiosity. but bottom line, if we look at the lines drawn here there is a variance of a conservative though (keep it secret) vs a liberal though (tell everyone, make it equal) and I'm sure you understand the interest in "mining data" so to speak.
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So many headaches. So many options here...I'll just do:
Honest truths? Like how I was a minister? Or a Republican?
yui know what Ben, I'll say it a bit differently. You didn't say this to be a nice guy:
Yeah, brilliant. The relationship is clearly telling and relevant.
you said it as a snide remark.. Fine.. But if you don't want blowback, cut it out.
it's that simple.
you don't like me.. so what. I don't care if you like me or not. I learned a long time ago that everyone doesn't have to like me and I don't have to like everyone.
I don't have feelings about you one way or the other. I can just as well have a conversation with you or give you a piece of my mind, but I will respond to snide remarks.
if you don't want blowback, cut it out and we can discuss the issues. If you want to continue on with snide remarks.. then you should know what to expect
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I know you are a Republican or similar in political orientation and I'm certainly a Democrat. I would bet that these political affiliations do indeed have bearing on what positions are taken on the issue in this thread..
Ha! So you are saying Democrats are looking or handouts and Republicans think they should be rewarded for their individual efforts? :P I am 100% against outing auctions, so I must be a Republican right? Hmmm... I wonder why Ted and I have been arguing about all these years eyeroll
Your conflation of political leanings with outing auctions is really amongst the most out-there of your claims Rich... ever! And that's saying a lot :) I wouldn't put up too much of a fight on this one.... it's just silly and wrong.
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as I said Harry.. I would love to see how some such issue lined up.. this discussion spoils the ability to get a potentially honest poll, but it is an interesting question.
that's all it was..
maybe we can ask these people
http://www.youtube.com/v/yRZZpk_9k8E
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Is there an ignore function on this forum? Seem to remember reading about this years ago, but forget what the deal was on that...
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Is there an ignore function on this forum? Seem to remember reading about this years ago, but forget what the deal was on that...
In the past there was an option that allowed pms to be blocked but not members posts.
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I'm as liberal as can be and I'm totally against outing auctions.
Ditto except for posters valued over 5k for me.
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In the past there was an option that allowed pms to be blocked but not members posts.
This option is still available to all members.. the blocking of receiving PM's, that is.
Click your profile and on the left side, under Modify Profile, is a "Personal Message Options" one can click on. There you can add member names to an Ignore List, from those you don't want to get PMs from. ;)
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nope.. but as I said, I'm only interested in the question as a scientific or intellectual issue, much the same as any issue regarding anything and how it lines up on a graph.
it's just a curiosity. but bottom line, if we look at the lines drawn here there is a variance of a conservative though (keep it secret) vs a liberal though (tell everyone, make it equal) and I'm sure you understand the interest in "mining data" so to speak.
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx303/NeoLoco80/Posters/star-wars-good-luck_zpsdd2b4d11.jpg) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/NeoLoco80/media/Posters/star-wars-good-luck_zpsdd2b4d11.jpg.html)
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but it is an interesting question.
No it isn't.
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Ditto except for posters valued over 5k for me.
Ditto, but 10k for me
I find it unreal this has turned political, when it's just a case of common sense, or even just good etiquette..
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My thoughts on this issue have not changed since originally writing this (which itself is a summary of even earlier discussions on the topic). I'm bumping it for the new folks...
I appreciate you sharing your thoughts Brian. If you look back through the mid-auction thread you'll see several bouts of this discussion over the last few years (and what I'm writing below has no doubt be better articulated by me in the past on multiple occasions). Clearly, many of us have already gotten our $0.02 in and everyone should have that option. However, I think this discussion may have veered off course...
As far as I know, NO ONE is advocating the limitation of discussion and/or the sharing of posters. That's what makes this place great. Sometimes we talk about our own acquisitions (monthly acquisitions thread), sometimes we discuss beautiful posters we might never be able to afford (strikes your fancy thread), sometimes we discuss genres (Bond, Hammer, etc...), sometimes we discuss authentication (mid-auction and authentication threads), and sometimes we talk about the crazy results achieved by certain posters -- whether high or low (post-auction thread). All of that discussion will and should of course continue.
What we are talking about here is only a tiny fraction of what is discussed at APF. For me it boils down to the pros and cons of outing auctions before they finish -- that emphasis is key to the whole thread.
Pro: Helps collectors -- I see this one as the most cited reason. If you think you are helping someone specific, remember there are probably 10+ visitors for every member you interact with here. So if you think you are talking to 20-30 people, you are really talking to 200-300+. When I started here, I envisioned my posting as akin to quietly sharing stock tips at a dinner party. However, I quickly realized it's more like sending out a PA at Disneyland!
Pro: Doesn't increase prices -- Yes, there is no proof that outing an auction will increase prices, but that is a two way street. I might impact prices every single time it happens and there would also be no proof. No data != proof.
Pro: More discussion -- Sure, but there is absolutely no reason it couldn't happen after auction. When this thread was started, even Mel suggested that super high profile auctions -- think Casablanca 6-sheet at Heritage or that Theda Bara Salome coming up at eMovie -- can be fun to discuss ahead of time and that discussion will likely not impact final prices. The mid-auction thread is also useful (IMO) to raise flags for fellow buyers for suspected bootleg posters or authenticity issues. It's also fun to laugh at some sellers who have ridiculous buy-it-now prices.
Con: Increases prices -- Sure, there will never be proof that this happens, but there is certainly no proof that it won't either.
Con: Increases competition -- Or the "monkey see, monkey do" effect. If you hang around here long enough you will certainly notice that buying habits are impacted by what is posted (i.e. Anything Gosling, Japanese B1s, Under Her Skin, etc...). It's only natural when you see new cool posters (even those outside your collecting interest) for some to expand into those spaces and increase the competition.
Con: No one posts what they are personally bidding on -- Not even Mel, who is beloved by so many. Mel and I had many discussions about his arbitrary outings in the past -- once they passed *his* price threshold, he thought they were fair game to post. Or if they weren't of interest to *him* personally, he thought they were ok to post. How can one person assume their wants/needs apply to everyone? That is is just being naive at best, reckless or spiteful it worst.
Even the *potential* for making my fellow collectors pay more or to increase their competition are reasons enough for me to NEVER out an ongoing auction. I stick to PMs and emails if my goal is to help fellow collectors. Sure, the mid-auction thread can be used carefully without hurting anyone -- and in the case of authentication issues, possibly helping people -- but there are other threads more appropriate for all three of the examples I posted.
This thread poll shows a nearly 50/50 split, and the discussion proves it's a very polarizing issue at that. If we could summarize this discussion concisely and put it at the front of the thread so people could at least weigh these issues before deciding to either post or wait until it's over to post (see, no limiting discussions!), great. I'd be all in favor of that as a reasonable compromise. However, if that is too complicated or T/H don't want to start down the slippery slope of codifying "rules" -- then I say lock it, which is how I voted.
All I know for sure, is there is no "Pro" on that list above that would compel me to post *before* an auction is finished. It can wait, 100% of the time.
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A well thought out and written piece.
However, if one were to take this to its absolute and natural conclusion, then (pedantically);
1. No one other than a dealer can OUT either specific item auctions or auction events. A non-dealer cannot announce, advertise, hint at or inform of events, just in case they contain something of interest to a forum member.
2. All forum members would then have to subscribe to a two-tier status of dealer or non dealer, and advertise themselves as such.
3. All newcomers would have to be thoroughly tranied in this Animal Farm mentality of 'Everyone shares, but some people can share more than others.'
There just seems to be no half way house that could ever cover everyone's needs as the above would be completely unworkable.
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My intention is not for people to take this to the "absolute and natural conclusion" you described. My only hope is that people are considerate of their fellow collectors and to use good judgement when discussing something that is still in process of being sold -- which is what I tried to articulate.
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But with respect, how would you have researched tediously, or tirelessly, without the help of people on the internet and perhaps specifically on forums such as this one?
Well to be fair this forum has been very useful regarding the subject of poster restoration and that has certainly helped me narrow down my search. But that is not a matter of competition or fluctuating prices. As far as searching for posters - well no. I don't collect film posters so ultimately the outing debate here interests me in principle but not in practice. My last hunt involved knowledge of the old countries of the Austro-Hungarian empire, a bit of translation and a good dollop of luck!
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Can we get a "poster dealer" vs. "poster collector" poll on this issue already?
Now that would be the true scientific or intellectual data we need
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...Once more next year
My thoughts on this issue have not changed since originally writing this (which itself is a summary of even earlier discussions on the topic). I'm bumping it for the new folks...
...Twice a year for five years
My thoughts on this issue have not changed since originally writing this (which itself is a summary of even earlier discussions on the topic). I'm bumping it for the new folks...
Done?
Nope... Queue the stupid auction item for outing purposes.
Queue Richie...
Queue newbie posting an auction because he wants to be helpful...
I fear we won't get out of this argument alive. faint2.gif
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A well thought out and written piece.
However, if one were to take this to its absolute and natural conclusion, then (pedantically);
1. No one other than a dealer can OUT either specific item auctions or auction events. A non-dealer cannot announce, advertise, hint at or inform of events, just in case they contain something of interest to a forum member.
2. All forum members would then have to subscribe to a two-tier status of dealer or non dealer, and advertise themselves as such.
3. All newcomers would have to be thoroughly tranied in this Animal Farm mentality of 'Everyone shares, but some people can share more than others.'
There just seems to be no half way house that could ever cover everyone's needs as the above would be completely unworkable.
By the way Simes, wouldn't we also have to take your position to the "absolute and natural conclusion" as well? Every collector everywhere would be REQUIRED to share every poster they find, regardless of their interest in it, the price, the country it was found in, the site it was found on, etc.... Sounds pretty silly and unenforceable, doesn't it? :)
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Queue newbie posting an auction because he wants to be helpful...
By the way, I in no way mean to demonize newbies who post in this thread. I outed a few auctions in my early days as well -- always with the intention of being helpful or adding to the discussion. It was only after I hung around a while and realized that it had the potential to hurt my fellow collectors as much it might help them, that I instead switched to PMs and emails. We all go through our own personal learning curves here...
With that, welcome newbies! :)
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Can we get a "poster dealer" vs. "poster collector" poll on this issue already?
Now that would be the true scientific or intellectual data we need
Was going to post something akin to this.
In a thread (Mid-Auction) started by one dealer and championed by another, data compiled from folks who's primary income that perhaps could be helped in any degree by a twist on marketing vs. folks trying to get more for less may lead to a better 'science'.
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I'm of two minds about this. I understand not posting individual items for sale, but I found it extremely helpful when Mel posted all the different places on the internet where you could search for posters, or about an upcoming auction at a major auction house. I found some incredible items this way, and feel this was very useful for someone just starting out in the hobby. I wouldn't post any individual item I found on these sites, because I understand when I am actually interested in the item, I don't go about posting it to forums, so I would expect the same from myself when other people might be interested in something I am not. But telling people about AuctionZip or Collectors Weekly, seems to me, to be important and valuable resource we should share with people just starting out. Just my 2 cents.
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Can we get a "poster dealer" vs. "poster collector" poll
go for it, but don't forget to add the 3rd choice also - Poster dealers who are also some of the biggest collectors
then do some research, how many times in the life of this forum has any dealer outed anything in the Mid-auctions thread?
do further research - how many times total by any member has something (count: 1 item) been outed
personally, I think it's a silly fear (I think all fear is silly, except the fear for your life you're being chased by a gang with guns, or the cops from Fergusen)
because the numbers are so small as to be non-existent
I've been collecting for right at 50 years and in all that time, I have certainly lost items that I would have liked to have, but so what.. in almost every case - except art - there is another. Few of you collect items that are one of a kind (Marklawd noted) and few of you collect material from the time period where the material is specifically rare and potentially one of a kind (pre 1930-something), so as you drill down through the information, it means you're all hoping to find a Star Wars Birthday poster listed in the wrong ebay category, incorrectly titled in such a way that because you're looking through Beanie Babies and some dummy forgot to change his template from Beanie Baby to Entertainment Memorabilia. Not that it doesn't happen, but again, it's such a rare situation as to be mostly non-existent.
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go for it, but don't forget to add the 3rd choice also - Poster dealers who are also some of the biggest collectors
then do some research, how many times in the life of this forum has any dealer outed anything in the Mid-auctions thread?
do further research - how many times total by any member has something (count: 1 item) been outed
personally, I think it's a silly fear (I think all fear is silly, except the fear for your life you're being chased by a gang with guns, or the cops from Fergusen)
because the numbers are so small as to be non-existent
I've been collecting for right at 50 years and in all that time, I have certainly lost items that I would have liked to have, but so what.. in almost every case - except art - there is another. Few of you collect items that are one of a kind (Marklawd noted) and few of you collect material from the time period where the material is specifically rare and potentially one of a kind (pre 1930-something), so as you drill down through the information, it means you're all hoping to find a Star Wars Birthday poster listed in the wrong ebay category, incorrectly titled in such a way that because you're looking through Beanie Babies and some dummy forgot to change his template from Beanie Baby to Entertainment Memorabilia. Not that it doesn't happen, but again, it's such a rare situation as to be mostly non-existent.
My poll, my parameters
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Queue Richie...
Just call me "Posteradamus"...
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yeah Charlie.. you could see the future.. you're psychiatric
cheers
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I love this forum
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I think that's the highest number of voters,in any poll I've seen here. 8)
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By the way Simes, wouldn't we also have to take your position to the "absolute and natural conclusion" as well? Every collector everywhere would be REQUIRED to share every poster they find, regardless of their interest in it, the price, the country it was found in, the site it was found on, etc.... Sounds pretty silly and unenforceable, doesn't it? :)
Hence why I summarised by saying, "There just seems to be no half way house that could ever cover everyone's needs, as the above would be completely unworkable."
I agree.
My point was to highlight how ludicrous this argument is.
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.................. so as you drill down through the information, it means you're all hoping to find a Star Wars Birthday poster listed in the wrong ebay category, incorrectly titled in such a way that because you're looking through Beanie Babies and some dummy forgot to change his template from Beanie Baby to Entertainment Memorabilia. Not that it doesn't happen, but again, it's such a rare situation as to be mostly non-existent.
Precisely.
And, I reckon this might be the only reason someone may get upset. That rare one-off occurance that may set one apart.
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It was only after I hung around a while and realized that it had the potential to hurt my fellow collectors as much it might help them, that I instead switched to PMs and emails. We all go through our own personal learning curves here...
Right.
And in terms of what is realistically workable, poor old Eric might have his hands so full in directing all the newbies down the path of moral righteousness, that this may inadvertantly scare away any new newbie, newly introduced to this or any other such forum.
It ain't workable. And so, to my mind, it should just be celebrated as to how the internet works.
(Apologies about all the separated responses. Wasn't intended to be so intensive.)
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Right.
And in terms of what is realistically workable, poor old Eric might have his hands so full in directing all the newbies down the path of moral righteousness, that this may inadvertantly scare away any new newbie, newly introduced to this or any other such forum.
It ain't workable. And so, to my mind, it should just be celebrated as to how the internet works.
(Apologies about all the separated responses. Wasn't intended to be so intensive.)
that's right..
+1
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It ain't workable. And so, to my mind, it should just be celebrated as to how the internet works.
Sending a PM/email instead of dumping a link for all to see isn't workable?
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they're bloody posters for fucks sake.
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they're bloody posters for fucks sake.
notworthy.gif
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they're bloody posters for fucks sake.
aahhh.. yep!
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they're bloody posters for fucks sake.
And that's where you lose sight of the problem..... Talk about can't see the wood for the trees.
The problem is Money.
If you have the chance to pick up a poster cheaper than the average price, what is wrong with that? The more people who know about it, chances are the price will rise, costing more.
It's that simple, why make someone pay more unless your a dealer, or have a plentiful supply of money and don't care what you pay...
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Except that every single person who collects posters has more money than they need. Each poster is a luxury. Nothing wrong with getting a bargain, but it's only a bargain for someone who can afford to waste money on luxuries. Tell the bloke down the road sleeping in a cardboard box about the bargain Star Wars quad you got for only a third of its " real value" and if he agrees with you I'll rethink.
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Except that every single person who collects posters has more money than they need. Each poster is a luxury. Nothing wrong with getting a bargain, but it's only a bargain for someone who can afford to waste money on luxuries. Tell the bloke down the road sleeping in a cardboard box about the bargain Star Wars quad you got for only a third of its " real value" and if he agrees with you I'll rethink.
sm1
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Except that every single person who collects posters has more money than they need. Each poster is a luxury. Nothing wrong with getting a bargain, but it's only a bargain for someone who can afford to waste money on luxuries. Tell the bloke down the road sleeping in a cardboard box about the bargain Star Wars quad you got for only a third of its " real value" and if he agrees with you I'll rethink.
This makes no sense at all with regards to outing auctions. The guy up the road from me who has a house worth over a Million, and makes 350k a year thinks I'm daft for buying bits of paper, so what does that prove.....nothing... We're all different, and have different levels of income, and how we choose to spend that is entirely our own choosing, but chiefly, It's Because It's not the point that is being discussed here.
Talk about shooting off at tangents.... eyeroll
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Um...I'm dumb,er...NEW.(Same thing I guess.) What exactly is "OUTING" auctions. I thought at first it was blowing the whistle on sellers selling fakes as originals...but it seems to be more like drawing attention to auctions you are watching? Is that it? Where is the link to reputable sellers? Ha! I need to go exploring more....
Thanks, pardon my blundering about and CHEERS!
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Not dumb at all and welcome aboard! Love your avatar. welcome1
Outing an auction is taking say an auction listed on e-bay and posting it for all to see. Some times these auctions may not have gained the notice of some of our members and sold cheaply because they all did not know about it for whatever reason. Now that everyone knows about it there may be more bidders raising the price since it is now out in the open, outed, for all to see.
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Also, people outing auctions never do so on items they intend to bid on and for obvious reasons. They selfishly out what they're passing on. One of the people who was fervently outing auctions was doing so because they were too expensive for him. But too expensive for someone doesn't mean too expensive for everyone.
T
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Well,thank you eatbrie and Undead! No,I quite understand about sharing an auction you've got your eye on---for fear of being outbid (which is my life's story on all of the good things I have truly wanted it seems. I have a ton of junk, but... usually always end up in 2nd place or further down the line for the really nice items I want. Waaaagh!). I appreciate the education.
CHEERS!
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The reality is that Outing an auction on this forum has little or no negative effect (Read: Higher sale price) on the outcome as the very nature of this forum, and its contributors, means that everyone have their eyes peeled on all the known auction sites around the world.
And if someone knows I am a Bond fan, then someone may helpfully bring my attention to an item. And if the Wanted Forum has a list of my Wants, then the damning information really is all to the fore.
There are so many contradictions, within even this site, as to what Outing means, never mind the ethos of the internet which I believe to be one of 'sharing information freely.'
It's an interesting conundrum. But my feeling is that if we Truly believe in the good of the internet and all that it offers, then we have to celebrate that, even when it 'could' directly not serve us on a personal level.
I would prefer to learn from all that goes on here on this forum, than to save £30 on a poster, once, maybe.
The greater good.
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The reality is that Outing an auction on this forum has little or no negative effect (Read: Higher sale price) on the outcome as the very nature of this forum, and its contributors, means that everyone have their eyes peeled on all the known auction sites around the world.
sm1
It's an interesting conundrum. But my feeling is that if we Truly believe in the good of the internet and all that it offers, then we have to celebrate that, even when it 'could' directly not serve us on a personal level.
ahhh.. yep!
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The reality is that Outing an auction on this forum has little or no negative effect (Read: Higher sale price) on the outcome as the very nature of this forum, and its contributors, means that everyone have their eyes peeled on all the known auction sites around the world.
And if someone knows I am a Bond fan, then someone may helpfully bring my attention to an item. And if the Wanted Forum has a list of my Wants, then the damning information really is all to the fore.
There are so many contradictions, within even this site, as to what Outing means, never mind the ethos of the internet which I believe to be one of 'sharing information freely.'
It's an interesting conundrum. But my feeling is that if we Truly believe in the good of the internet and all that it offers, then we have to celebrate that, even when it 'could' directly not serve us on a personal level.
I would prefer to learn from all that goes on here on this forum, than to save £30 on a poster, once, maybe.
The greater good.
(http://img.pandawhale.com/post-43302-But-thats-just-wrong-Caroline-PnpG.gif)
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Also, people outing auctions never do so on items they intend to bid on and for obvious reasons.
Case closed.
The rest is all philosophy.
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Case closed.
The rest is all philosophy.
(http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/ding-ding-ding.jpg)
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Case closed.
The rest is all philosophy.
clap clap clap clap clap clap
I would love all these people who think it's alright to out auctions to give me a precise list of what they intend to bid on next.
Please, humor me.
T
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The reality is that Outing an auction on this forum has little or no negative effect (Read: Higher sale price) on the outcome as the very nature of this forum, and its contributors, means that everyone have their eyes peeled on all the known auction sites around the world.
False. I can tell you from experience that I have had to pay more money on some items because they were outed by some members of this forum. I have even lost some.
T
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I'm 110% behind T on this as you all know.
There are three kinds of people who WANT outing, and they are
1, Dealers
2, People with too much money, and don't care what they pay
3, The ignorant
The rest of us have far too much common sense.
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4, The asshole
T
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Case closed.
The rest is all philosophy.
actually, it's all philosophy on both sides of the argument
I would love all these people who think it's alright to out auctions to give me a precise list of what they intend to bid on next.
Please, humor me.
Raymond Chandler posters. whichever ones I still need.
or gambling.. I like gambling posters also....
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actually, it's all philosophy on both sides of the argument
Raymond Chandler posters. whichever ones I still need.
or gambling.. I like gambling posters also....
Please post a link to the Raymond Chandler poster you're looking for once you find it on Ebay. I couldn't care less about Raymond Chandler but I will play with you just to prove my point.
T
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...and I will be bidding on whatever is in my Wants list; which is regularly updated and bumped to the top.
Cheers.
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Please post a link to the Raymond Chandler poster you're looking for once you find it on Ebay. I couldn't care less about Raymond Chandler but I will play with you just to prove my point.
T
Forget Chandler, let's really turn this into an experiment with a poster no one would want under any circumstances (...or would they?)
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you exhibit A, DOLPHIN SUNSET http://auctions.emovieposter.com/Bidding.taf?_function=detail&auction_uid1=3751043
(http://www.emovieposter.com/images/moviestars/AA150129/550/commercial_dolphin_sunset_BM02647_C.jpg)
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Vick moron1
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Please post a link to the Raymond Chandler poster you're looking for once you find it on Ebay. I couldn't care less about Raymond Chandler but I will play with you just to prove my point.
T
Then, with respect, if you're just going to play with him to prove your point, you're not proving any point.
Cake and eat it.
Rough with the smooth.
American President, "America is advanced citizenship. You've gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say, 'You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours."
So, swap America with the The Internet, and here we are.
This whole forum is based on outing auctions. There have been any number of Bond posters I did not know even existed before I came here, to this very site. And now I know of their existence, I am now bidding, because in effect, their existence has been outed.
Define for me please, the exact moment when Outing starts and ends...
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This whole forum is based on outing auctions. There have been any number of Bond posters I did not know even existed before I came here, to this very site. And now I know of their existence, I am now bidding, because in effect, their existence has been outed.
The auctions those newly discovered Bond posters came from were not outed. However, the posters purchased in those auctions were indeed shared on this forum AFTER THE SALE. If the person sharing the newly discovered Bond poster had done so BEFORE the original auction ended you are admitting that they would have increased their competition because you yourself would have been interested. How can you then claim that outing an in-progress auction "has little or no negative effect (Read: Higher sale price) on the outcome".
Define for me please, the exact moment when Outing starts and ends...
You are conflating two different issues:
1. Outing an in-progress auction can potentially lead to extra bidders and a higher final sale price.
2. Discussing a previously sold poster on this forum can potentially lead to extra bidders and a higher final sale price on the NEXT COPY to come up for sale.
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Vick moron1
;D ;D
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clap Well said Harry.
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Vick moron1
Hahaha I will most certainly be outbid from now until Thursday. SCREW THE SUPERBOWL PM ME YOUR PREDICTIONS folks I'll keep a tally until after the auction thumbsup.gif
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If you dig through the forum enough, there's plenty of evidence that proves the point, time and again.
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Private Messages people - you'll not get the glory you seek here in outting auctions for the masses - only condemnation from those that "get it"
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This Thread Needs its own Theme Song.
http://www.youtube.com/v/heHdOTt_iGc
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Oddly, that film ended...... I was most unimpressed.
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Ted 2 posters are out...
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Speaking of the Devil, remember, the guy who started this whole diatribe, what happened to him? I just tried to go to his website and it doesn't exist anymore. Anyone still in touch with the fellow?
T
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Speaking of the Devil, remember, the guy who started this whole diatribe, what happened to him? I just tried to go to his website and it doesn't exist anymore. Anyone still in touch with the fellow?
T
Not sure, but I saw a bunch of his posters for sale in the rolled US 1-sheet auction at eMovie a week ago or so.
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I've also seen some of his linen-backed posters at HA and emovie. Flash in the pan collector.
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Please post a link to the Raymond Chandler poster you're looking for once you find it on Ebay. I couldn't care less about Raymond Chandler but I will play with you just to prove my point.
sadly, there aren't any. as a matter of fact, there is nothing in my watchlist to speak of that isn't a BIN at prices I wouldn't bother with.
of course, my Chandler collection is pretty fat, so it is difficult to find at this point stuff I don't have
If you dig through the forum enough, there's plenty of evidence that proves the point, time and again.
create a whole list of such proof right here.. prove your point
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How much more proof is needed than one of the following:
A) I saw something in this thread, I didn't know was available and I WON it, thus another person did not, and it would have went for less as I would never have seen it.
B) I was the under bidder on something I saw posted here, and the person that won it paid more than they would of if I never saw the item.
Who cares if the other bidder bid the same regardless, the bottom line is that bidder either didn't get the item at their bid price or didn't get it all, because I saw it.
I mean, what else is there. I suppose you folks that think otherwise still believe in the Easter bunny and that fairy dust exists?
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I've also seen some of his linen-backed posters at HA and emovie. Flash in the pan collector.
I always suspected the inevitable burn out would be blistering
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If I woulda outed my Jurassic Park Lenticular auction it definitely would have sold higher than what I got it for because I was the only bidder.
Recently an Avatar lenticular sold for 225ish that was put in the wrong category....same case there if Avatar was posted on APF, a member or lurker would have been bidding. I would have been a player if I was aware of it. Nobody really outs stuff that THEY want to bid on..why? because the price could go up, that would be silly to do so.
I know I have put stuff on ebay and announced it on APF and it instantly sells in ten minutes or less....quite amazing.
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It is simple. If you are thinking about outing the auction don't do it. Keep in in PM with an individual. All it will do is piss people off. I can't believe this is still an ongoing discussion. If you are that eager to talk about it then wait until it is over. Or as I stated before keep it in a PM with a individual. It is easy to bite your tongue.
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Vick moron1
lol Chris has been after that forever!!!! now he will have to pay $2!!!
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lol Chris has been after that forever!!!! now he will have to pay $2!!!
$2 American to make it even worse. That's like $50 Canadian right now...thanks a lot Vick - what happened to national pride?
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The auctions those newly discovered Bond posters came from were not outed. However, the posters purchased in those auctions were indeed shared on this forum AFTER THE SALE. If the person sharing the newly discovered Bond poster had done so BEFORE the original auction ended you are admitting that they would have increased their competition because you yourself would have been interested. How can you then claim that outing an in-progress auction "has little or no negative effect (Read: Higher sale price) on the outcome".
You are conflating two different issues:
1. Outing an in-progress auction can potentially lead to extra bidders and a higher final sale price.
2. Discussing a previously sold poster on this forum can potentially lead to extra bidders and a higher final sale price on the NEXT COPY to come up for sale.
I am editing this as my initial attempt at posting was done on the train: it lead to a half-assed attempt to read and respond. Sorry.
You are exactly right. I am conflating two different issues. (I had never heard of the word 'conflate', so thank you for bring that to my attention.)
1. On this forum, I believe it won't lead to extra bidders as everyone on this forum is at the top of their game and if interest is sufficient, they will already be aware of the poster's existence. However, if one were to Out a poster on every other type of collecting / antiques / richpeoplesforums.com, type of platform, then yes, maybe this will indeed lead to a higher price. But that is not happening and is not what we are discussing here.
2. Yes, the post-purchase discussion of a poster can also lead to the next poster turning up for auction acquiring more bidders and more awareness. So, in the spirit of selflessness, should we also then Not discuss that which could lead to some other's downfall in the poster purchasing stakes? Which means this forum and its raison d'etre ceases to exist.
I just cannot see where it begins and ends. To be a complete pain in the ass, I could also say that, On This Forum, if a dealer is made aware of a forum member's awareness of the dealer's poster being for sale / auction, then said dealer cannot then pop it up in the Dealer's or For Sale forums.
At the end of the day, a bidder has the freedom of choice to bid to a certain level, And, in the best interests of the business of film, more than one poster was always printed of a given title - another will always turn up.
Fellas, this is the environment and age in which we live. It's a game and I would just prefer to languish in the sharing of knowledge of all than to sweat over a poster going for an arbitrary sum too much for my pocket.
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$2 American to make it even worse. That's like $50 Canadian right now...thanks a lot Vick - what happened to national pride?
C'mon not just any dolphin sunset its an UNFOLDED copy! faint2.gif
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C'mon not just any dolphin sunset its an UNFOLDED copy! faint2.gif
Damn I am going to have to pony up now!
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Damn I am going to have to pony up now!
lol someone's outbid me I even tried raising
Damn you posterarchive!
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You are conflating two different issues:
1. Outing an in-progress auction can potentially lead to extra bidders and a higher final sale price.
2. Discussing a previously sold poster on this forum can potentially lead to extra bidders and a higher final sale price on the NEXT COPY to come up for sale.
1. It can also potentially lead to fewer bidders and a lower final sale price if the pre-auction discussion is negative e.g. the poster may not be original, it can be found cheaper elsewhere, it is deemed unattractive etc.
2. The discussion of any poster in any thread on this forum can lead to that outcome - or the opposite.
Mark
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Mel had the only rolled Man With the Golden Gun teaser 1-sheet and rolled 2001 star child poster (NSS re-release poster, not the wilding poster) I've ever seen. He also had a rare Big Lebowski int'l 1-sheet. All three were in the last rolled 1-sheet auction at eMovieposter so I figured it couldn't be a coincidence.
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The ET spacecraft one sheet, that has black paint over the "coming this Summer" text, at eMovie also may have been his.
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Dancing with Star with tassels is his too.
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I think I remember all the posters that I wouldn't mind having from other collectors... Sounds like a good thread starter...
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I think I remember all the posters that I wouldn't mind having from other collectors... Sounds like a good thread starter...
Or mark could just start posting images from his collection.
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Forget Chandler, let's really turn this into an experiment with a poster no one would want under any circumstances (...or would they?)
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you exhibit A, DOLPHIN SUNSET http://auctions.emovieposter.com/Bidding.taf?_function=detail&auction_uid1=3751043
So now that the experiment is over and DOLPHIN SUNSET sold for a mere $4 that settles it I guess -- White rectangles over bums do nothing to raise the value of a poster.
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So now that the experiment is over and DOLPHIN SUNSET sold for a mere $4 that settles it I guess -- White rectangles over bums do nothing to raise the value of a poster.
Yep - they only increase auction results when placed over nipples
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maybe it was the mismatch between Dolphins & women
Doh.gif
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What do you guys mean by "outing the auctions"?
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What do you guys mean by "outing the auctions"?
All explained by various people over these 14 pages.
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What do you guys mean by "outing the auctions"?
I think it means the opposite of "inning an auction?" (and part of that whole belly button thing, too). imbecile.gif
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I think it means the opposite of "inning an auction?" (and part of that whole belly button thing, too). imbecile.gif
have to wonder if he's already figured it out, after all, it's been three years since he asked...
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have to wonder if he's already figured it out, after all, it's been three years since he asked...
Its probably like the never ending story.
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I have not heard the term outing auctions before, but I am against letting more people know about auctions that are on going. Money is to be made when less people know about something. If you want to keep such a thread to members only that would be OK I guess; but whatever method allows the less people to know about current auctions the better.
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Money is to be made when less people know about something.
But the spirit of the internet is to Share something...everything.
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Please don't out the auctions I know about, though please do out the other ones. Also, only to help you, please let me know the ones you don't want me to out.
Okie
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But the spirit of the internet is to Share something...everything.
An admirable sentiment. In all honesty though, if a particular Bond piece came up for auction which you really, really needed for your collection would you publicise it?
Not trying to create an argument, genuinley interested in your thoughts.
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A good question. And to answer thoroughly honestly, I would not out it, but if it was outed, I would take it in the spirit of the exercise and accept it as Internet Sharing.
I believe this would further the chances of someone outing a Bond piece that I had Not seen, further down the line. Always the rough with the smooth.
Push to shove though, would there really be Anything on this forum that everyone had Not already seen?