Your thoughts on OUTING Ebay auctions

[Filmlobbycards]

Sigh....

....I somehow forgot multinational corporations spent $171  billion outing ebay auctions on this forum

[jedgerley]

Ok I will start by outing all of Rich's auctions.  

Ok all done  

[archie leach]

BTW, that's mom & pops as well as multinationals.  

Some companies spend millions on 'free' advertising of the type that we are discussing (forum posts/social/general internet chatter).  This smaller the overall market, the greater the effect of such advertising.

I'm sorry if you don't have a basic understanding of the field.

[monocle]

Monocle.....there are more posters available today than ever before.....the wal marting of posters mixed with the large signature auction offerings far outnumbers the amount of willing and competitive buyers

Ah, I think we're talking at cross purposes here - particularly as I've never seen a 'Walmart'. I assume you are specifically referring to movie posters from recent decades whereas my own collection is largely pre 1900. A teensy bit different!

[Filmlobbycards]

Mon.....wal marting is a neologism...a newly coined term...it isn't in reference to just modern movie posters....in this case I was using "wal marting" to describe over saturation of posters on the market...that just means flooding the market with  tens of thousands of worthless posters at a cheap price (with a few nice ones mixed in as bait)....eventually this saturation keeps the prices low because there are not enough buyers/bidders to keep prices competitive...it is bad stewardship of the material AND it does the hobby a disservice....if you look at the dregs of eBay...there are plenty of 1920's-1940's material listed for peanuts...and they are not selling...one of the main culprits even had a heated debate on this here forum about REFUSING to take any more crap posters from people...and making a judgement call on what was good or not....that speaks volumes...

And Mon I mostly collect vintage posters from 1900's-1940's....but also antique engravings, maps and prints from 1500's-1800's...there is "wal marting" in those areas too...it's amazing how many beautifully rendered engravings from the 1700's that sell for less than $20...there is just more paper than collectors...the Internet has magnified that reality

[erik1925]

Mon.....wal marting is a neologism...a newly coined term...it isn't in reference to just modern movie posters....in this case I was using "wal marting" to describe over saturation of posters on the market...that just means flooding the market with  tens of thousands of worthless posters at a cheap price (with a few nice ones mixed in as bait)....eventually this saturation keeps the prices low because there are not enough buyers/bidders to keep prices competitive...it is bad stewardship of the material AND it does the hobby a disservice....if you look at the dregs of eBay...there are plenty of 1920's-1940's material listed for peanuts...and they are not selling...one of the main culprits even had a heated debate on this here forum about REFUSING to take any more crap posters from people...and making a judgement call on what was good or not....that speaks volumes...

And Mon I mostly collect vintage posters from 1900's-1940's....but also antique engravings, maps and prints from 1500's-1800's...there is "wal marting" in those areas too...it's amazing how many beautifully rendered engravings from the 1700's that sell for less than $20...there is just more paper than collectors...the Internet has magnified that reality

One interesting observation I have made, too, in posters listed in the Pre-1940s section (or even a good number of those posters listed in the '40s or '50s decades), are the much higher prices that sellers have attached for lesser or even more unknown films. A good number of sellers are also of the thinking that because a poster is from 1934, for example, that it automatically is worth hundreds or thousands of dollars. That isn't the case, and is the reason that many of those posters, too, sit and languish on the bay for months or longer.

[eatbrie]

Speaking of outing posters, what happened to Mel?  Is he still collecting?  Is anyone still in touch with him?  The last I heard he was going to create a Facebook page or something like that.

T

[Harry Caul]

Mon.....wal marting is a neologism...a newly coined term...it isn't in reference to just modern movie posters....in this case I was using "wal marting" to describe over saturation of posters on the market...that just means flooding the market with  tens of thousands of worthless posters at a cheap price (with a few nice ones mixed in as bait)....eventually this saturation keeps the prices low because there are not enough buyers/bidders to keep prices competitive...it is bad stewardship of the material AND it does the hobby a disservice....if you look at the dregs of eBay...there are plenty of 1920's-1940's material listed for peanuts...and they are not selling...one of the main culprits even had a heated debate on this here forum about REFUSING to take any more crap posters from people...and making a judgement call on what was good or not....that speaks volumes...

And Mon I mostly collect vintage posters from 1900's-1940's....but also antique engravings, maps and prints from 1500's-1800's...there is "wal marting" in those areas too...it's amazing how many beautifully rendered engravings from the 1700's that sell for less than $20...there is just more paper than collectors...the Internet has magnified that reality

Yeah, and everyone's silver set they inherited from their great grandparents used to be a treasured heirloom until eBay came along and it now 95% of it sells for melt value.  What's your point?  You seem to be mad at the internet, first and foremost, for destroying the notion of perceived rarity.  Would you prefer a world of cartels and monopolies where plentiful material is manipulated to seem rare?  Yay De Beers!  

By the way, who are you to say what something *should* be worth (if only eBay and eMovieposter didn't screw it all up  )?  Seems to me that is a question for markets to answer.... you know supply and demand?  Due to lack of knowledge and information sharing, posters seemed rare pre-internet, prices slowly increased.  Post-internet, more people learn about the existence of the hobby and more sellers and sales venues pop up to cash in, market gets flooded, prices correct.  This is surprising why?  

[Filmlobbycards]

Matt...I'm not mad at all...your mistaken....I actually love the Internet...75% of my collection was purchased this way...I live in Maui so it is really the only avenue available for me.....I was making an observation and speaking to Monocle who misinterpreted what I was saying earlier...most of the material I collect sells in the $1000  and over range so this issue doesn't really affect me like it does others....not that I prefer expensive material....it was what I gravitated towards when I started collecting...I would rather have a Duck Soup window card than a b movie western from the 1950's...that's a different discussion...

I agree debeers is a scam....and I don't want your grandmas silverware to be worthless....perceived rarity is a market to market translation anyway....how many times have you seen posters move from emovie to eBay and sell for more...or vice versa...and sometimes Heritage sells something common for 5 times the price....poster selling/collecting is a volatile and speculative market anyway....up until a few years ago there was not mass dumping of posters in the market....maybe you disagree that it's bad stewardship....I think it does the hobby a disservice

[monocle]

One of the first things I learnt about collecting antiques was this. An item is only worth what you actually succeed in getting for it. Not it's estimated value, or suggested valuation or the price it got ten years ago but the cash you are left with in your pocket when you finally give in and sell it.

[Filmlobbycards]

That's exactly right....don't let anyone tell you differently....

[erik1925]

One of the first things I learnt about collecting antiques was this. An item is only worth what you actually succeed in getting for it. Not it's estimated value, or suggested valuation or the price it got ten years ago but the cash you are left with in your pocket when you finally give in and sell it.

 

[jedgerley]

Speaking of outing posters, what happened to Mel?  Is he still collecting?  Is anyone still in touch with him?  The last I heard he was going to create a Facebook page or something like that.

T

Been meaning to stop by and see Mel. I know he slowed way down with posters. He had his facebook page up immediately after resigning from APF. He posted links in his very last post.
https://facebook.com/PosterNirvana

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Yawn....this is still the most lame brained knuckle headed debate on this forum...the Internet as a research tool should not only reward the cheap consumer....anyone brave enough to pay more for a dumb piece of paper wants it more...it doesn't matter how they found the auction...or listing...and once again there is absolutely no proof that outed auctions command a greater price...it's a pretend dream world..there is a single word that balances perfectly between both sides of this argument...SPECULATION...what a poster sells for "outed" or not....whether a savvy collector or wealthy dealer knows about the coveted poster you are nervously trying to acquire the cheapest way possible...sometimes they pull the trigger sometimes they have bigger fish to fry...there are more posters available than buyers...this plays both ways...sometimes posters sell for more...sometimes for less...on the Internet they are widely seen whether you think so or not...80% of the poster collectors/sellers/dealers that I have done business with over the past 15+ years are not involved on this forum...they are active in waves ...in all good fun... STOP being such whiny complaining pussies...just bid what your comfortable with....whether it's Heritage or eBay or an estate sale....no one has been outing auctions for the last 6 months here...this is now a straw man argument....posters are still selling too high and too low....once again....it's called SPECULATION......which will always be the end result of this stupid argument

I totally agree

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Monocle.....there are more posters available today than ever before.....the wal marting of posters mixed with the large signature auction offerings far outnumbers the amount of willing and competitive buyers ..the point is there are plenty of posters that get tepid results from over saturation.... of the myriad reasons why poster prices are volatile...there is the simple fact that there are too many auctions and listings going on at any given time....plus tens of thousands of choices from websites and the never-ending eBay listings.....it's overwhelming...if you have some extra time here is a challenge for someone

December is usually a pretty active month for buying and selling....between now and January 1st 2015...count how many auctioned posters there are between....Heritage, emovie, movieposterbid, eBay, bonhams , profiles in history, coys, Christies etc....

Post  that information and then we can really talk about why prices are are all over the place....

again I totally agree

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Ok I will start by outing all of Rich's auctions.  

Ok all done  

get on it again in 10 days or so..

 

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Mon.....wal marting is a neologism...a newly coined term...it isn't in reference to just modern movie posters....in this case I was using "wal marting" to describe over saturation of posters on the market...that just means flooding the market with  tens of thousands of worthless posters at a cheap price (with a few nice ones mixed in as bait)....eventually this saturation keeps the prices low because there are not enough buyers/bidders to keep prices competitive...it is bad stewardship of the material AND it does the hobby a disservice....if you look at the dregs of eBay...there are plenty of 1920's-1940's material listed for peanuts...and they are not selling...one of the main culprits even had a heated debate on this here forum about REFUSING to take any more crap posters from people...and making a judgement call on what was good or not....that speaks volumes...

again, total agreement with Tait on this issue. especially the bolded statement

[MoviePosterBid.com]

A good number of sellers are also of the thinking that because a poster is from 1934, for example, that it automatically is worth hundreds or thousands of dollars. That isn't the case, and is the reason that many of those posters, too, sit and languish on the bay for months or longer.

also true

[jedgerley]

get on it again in 10 days or so..

 

Oh man i gotta start outing all your auctions in 10 days or are you trouble shooting still?

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Oh man i gotta start outing all your auctions in 10 days or are you trouble shooting still?

we're installing a new software.. but we still have to do some customizations
you can actually bid on some test auctions that are listed right now
bidding works exactly as it should and as a matter of fact, all member issues work perfectly.
the customizations involve things in the back end that I need and the invoicer part doesn't merge wins properly, but we can just use the other invoicing app if we can't get a fast customization

[eatbrie]

Been meaning to stop by and see Mel. I know he slowed way down with posters. He had his facebook page up immediately after resigning from APF. He posted links in his very last post.
https://facebook.com/PosterNirvana

October 25, the last time he posted?  Wtf?

[Ari]

he seems happy, we email, its the new way to send a letter :p

[CSM]

October 25, the last time he posted?  Wtf?

Maybe he finally found a woman friend who wasn't printed on paper

[erik1925]

Maybe he finally found a woman friend who wasn't printed on paper

 

[Mirosae]

 Funny you talking about Mel. We emailed recently and he seems ok,  not buying much though he might bid this Sat at HA auction. He is well. Or I hope he is...