All Poster Stuff

[Mirosae]

I thought you can get it hard copy and ecopy for free? I keep them just for fun. Not sure they send them to ''serious''buyers, I am not!  I only have them because I selected ''get the catalogue'' in my settings...just saying in case you might want to check your settings. I have got one but now I wonder if mine was just a complementary copy.  I will need to check that.

The buyers premium is a killer I agree.

Rosa

[erik1925]

Here is something VERY cool.

What could be the original artwork for the 6 sheet that was created for the 1940/41 release of Gone With The Wind. The piece measures 32 x 43.5 inches and is done on heavy illustration board. Ive placed an image of the actual 6 sheet below, for comparison. Sure looks to be the art that was utlilized, IMO. 

[pratschm]

My guess is if you get a Heritage signature auction catalog for free, your considered a serious collector in Heritage's eyes...  So that leave me out. I have expected one after visiting and dropping $350 at the Berwick but they can't find their ass from a hole in the ground - even though I e-mailed Grey multiple times. Heritage has also become tough for me because on top of the 20% buyers's premium, I have to pay another 9% sales tax.  Screw that!  29%! I'll get my stuff elsewhere... 

This is probably a stupid question but I'm assuming when bidding on Heritage people account for the buyer's premium in their max bid amount, no? Or do people tend to bid on an item independently of other fees, etc? I'm guessing there are probably both kinds. I've resisted HA so far because 1) the idea of a buyer's premium is stupid to me and 2) other venues are able to fulfill my needs at the moment (mostly because of what I collect). Just curious.

[Mirosae]

I thought you can get it hard copy and ecopy for free? I keep them just for fun. Not sure they send them to ''serious''buyers, I am not!  I only have them because I selected ''get the catalogue'' in my settings...just saying in case you might want to check your settings. I have got one but now I wonder if mine was just a complementary copy.  I will need to check that.

The buyers premium is a killer I agree.

Rosa

Just want to correct my earlier post. I checked and I see you have to pay for the catalogues, though you might get a complementary one (or two copies).

Mike, yours is not a stupid question.  I buy in HA. First time, did not realise that the numbers shown at the end did NOT include BP. I had a max bid so thought it meant maximum including BP, but nope, that's not how it works. So I ended up paying more than I had expected.

Now I learnt my lesson and the rule is pretty simple, know how much you want to spend, and know how far you are willing to go. And do not get carried away (this is the hardest one for me). Some times I live to regret that I did not go for it. BP doesn't bother me if I get what I want. And most of the time gets me what I want.

[50s]

This is probably a stupid question but I'm assuming when bidding on Heritage people account for the buyer's premium in their max bid amount, no?

Heritage pretty clearly show what the total price (your bid + post sale buyers premium is)  (see image below). I would assume near everyone (except maybe newbs) factors this into their bid, especially if you are going to look over a supersize image with a fine tooth comb, you'll see the total price that is displayed. I would think a fair market value price is reached and is not above market value. Before they showed that combined total price, it was much easier to be tricked (mainly again by newbs I guess), but now there should be nearly no confusion.


 

[Mirosae]

Steve

Agree, it is pretty clear if you bid ''live'' and maybe if you are not a newbie. My point was that the ''secret highest bid'' should be added taking into account that you will have to add later the BP. It wasn't clear to me that for your secret max bid you have to calculate BP on top (rather than secret including % BP). Incidentally some of my colleagues who also bidded in the UK (also first time) had the same issue. Newbie thing sure. 

[pratschm]

Thanks for the responses. That's what I would have thought - determine max to spend, subtract out BP --> max secret bid to make.
So then as far as fair market value for the poster, would you say that it is the price w/ or w/o the BP?

[50s]

I'm sure the BP is there in part to confuse some people and also to take a bit more of a cut out of the consignors profit with multiple small fees rather than one larger more blatant big one.

I guess people really need to do their research into the product and the business/service so as to minimise the likelihood of getting shafted. The more experienced feed off the less experienced. Of course there are good business too, but go in there well prepared.

[erik1925]

Thanks for the responses. That's what I would have thought - determine max to spend, subtract out BP --> max secret bid to make.
So then as far as fair market value for the poster, would you say that it is the price w/ or w/o the BP?

Mike, I'm sure opinions will be a mixed bag here, but I think a better reflection of market value is the hammer price, before the BP is added on.

The BP is an added fee--yes a buyer has to pay it, and it is calculated based on the hammer price, but it is still just that-- a fee. It's an added amount one must pay to bid at most auction houses. The hammer price is what the poster (or any other item) actually sold for.

[Bruce]

Buyers premiums are there to trick newbie buyers, but more importantly they are there to trick CONSIGNORS.

Say a person approaches an auction that tells them they charge 15%. That person reasonably assumes that if the buyer pays $1,000 for their poster, then they will receive $850 ($1,000 minus $150).

But in actually, when the buyer bids $1,000, they pay $1,000 plus $200 or so in buyers premiums, for a total of $1,200.

So that seller receives $850 out of $1,200, meaning they paid just under a 30% fee, nearly double what they THOUGHT they were paying.

All completely legal of course.

[pratschm]

Mike, I'm sure opinions will be a mixed bag here, but I think a better reflection of market value is the hammer price, before the BP is added on.

The BP is an added fee--yes a buyer has to pay it, and it is calculated based on the hammer price, but it is still just that-- a fee. It's an added amount one must pay to bid at most auction houses. The hammer price is what the poster (or any other item) actually sold for.

Oh sure, I get that. It was more just a curiosity based on the different perspectives of how sellers might bid.

[Through the Stones]

What the hell makes a serious collector? Anyone who enjoys accumulating movie posters for any reason is a serious collector, the value of their collection shouldn't be a benchmark. Also whether they are in it for a lifetime or for 5 years it doesn't matter, someone who is active at the hobby is a collector; a collector who is inactive probably has just had kids... 

Huge +1!

Serious collectors (at least to me) are in things mainly for financial gain or investment and also have some sort of subtle way to lord their collection or knowledge over others with a healthy slice of 'if you don't know what I do or care about what I care about, you're not SERIOUS about this hobby'.  Serious collectors also feel that in order to be worthy of respect you have to be serious about it too damnit!  That's just my opinion based on my experience and it transcends movie posters too - coins, comic books, art, Cabernets, cheese, whatever...

Me, I've become a passionate collector.  In the beginning I saw potential financial investment and gain and I purchased accordingly based on my budget.  But even then, I feel like there would be a great MANY 'Serious' collectors who wouldn't even turn their heads at my collection where my "best" posters are an International/Australian Temple of Doom and an original folded Raiders that's been well loved.  But I love them.  I love my Goonies one sheet and I love my Galaxy Quest OS and my folded Explorers OS and my French Temple of Doom and my Raiders three sheet with water stains and tears and writing.  But, it's because I've grown to realize that I only want posters from movies that shaped my life into the person I am.  Ultimately, I want my collection to represent, well, me.  I want people to look at every piece and say, 'That makes total sense that you would own that poster.'  In fact, I want to get rid of all my posters for films I've never even seen or purchased only with the thoughts of financial gain.

As an extension, I would say that I really appreciate everyone on this board too because it strikes me that you are all in that same vein.  We all applaud everyone's acquisitions and offer honest help whenever possible.  Some of you are dealers but it seems like you are all very passionate about the posters and not the business of posters.  I love browsing this thread and seeing things I've never seen before and some of your collections absolutely blow my mind (it's like going to a museum for free) but honestly, I've only seen a few pieces that really strike my chord and make me actually pursue it.

But I digress...  

[Neo]

Good explanation, Bruce.    A buyer's premium is a real fancy gimmick, eh?

[50s]

Good explanation, Bruce.    A buyer's premium is a real fancy gimmick, eh?

What Bruce said in 5 paragraphs I said earlier in one sentence!

[Neo]

What Bruce said in 5 paragraphs I said earlier in one sentence!

I don't see where you explained exactly what Bruce said, and his explanation seems very succint.  

[Silhouette]

Buyers premiums are there to trick newbie buyers, but more importantly they are there to trick CONSIGNORS.

Say a person approaches an auction that tells them they charge 15%. That person reasonably assumes that if the buyer pays $1,000 for their poster, then they will receive $850 ($1,000 minus $150).

But in actually, when the buyer bids $1,000, they pay $1,000 plus $200 or so in buyers premiums, for a total of $1,200.

So that seller receives $850 out of $1,200, meaning they paid just under a 30% fee, nearly double what they THOUGHT they were paying.

All completely legal of course.

Extremely slanted reporting Bruce. Buyer's and Seller's Premiums are not tricks, they are fees, very few auction houses in the world do not charge these 'fees', the fact you are one of a handful who doesn't (certainly commendable) does not  mean everyone else has got it wrong or are trying to 'trick' buyers and sellers alike.

Despite the fact I have never sold through HA and others of their ilk I would have thought the terms are clear, a Seller gets his money once the fee has been deducted from the net sell price, that is before the BP are applied.

[Ari]

Have to agree, I've never bought from, not sold through HA, and it's all pretty clear to me. If someone sold through and did even less research than me, which is basically none, and was tricked, I'd assume they would also be "tricked" by a staircase because nobody told them to open their eyes while walking..

[brude]

Have to agree, I've never bought from, not sold through HA, and it's all pretty clear to me. If someone sold through and did even less research than me, which is basically none, and was tricked, I'd assume they would also be "tricked" by a staircase because nobody told them to open their eyes while walking..

   Well said.

[50s]

his explanation seems very succint.

Suck what

[Neo]

Suck what

Come on, Steve, is that the best you can do?  I once held the title "MC Grammar" in elementary school.  Apparently you're not on my level with vocabulary, either. 

"succinct

adjective
1.
expressed in few words; concise; terse.
2.
characterized by conciseness or verbal brevity.
3.
compressed into a small area, scope, or compass."
(source: Dictionary.com)

[Silhouette]

Come on, Steve, is that the best you can do?  I once held the title "MC Grammar" in elementary school.  Apparently you're not on my level with vocabulary, either.  

I think he is, but you were one 'c' short of being concise...

[Bruce]

Extremely slanted reporting Bruce. Buyer's and Seller's Premiums are not tricks, they are fees, very few auction houses in the world do not charge these 'fees', the fact you are one of a handful who doesn't (certainly commendable) does not  mean everyone else has got it wrong or are trying to 'trick' buyers and sellers alike.

Despite the fact I have never sold through HA and others of their ilk I would have thought the terms are clear, a Seller gets his money once the fee has been deducted from the net sell price, that is before the BP are applied.

You are wrong, David. I have lost at least three quality consignments where the sellers were flat out told that the other place charged lower fees than I do. They believed those lies and "went with the place that charged less", when in actuality, I charge less AT EVERY SINGLE PRICE POINT (as Enki once took the time to write out, and is easily verified). You forget that many sellers are not buyers at all, so they have no reason to be aware of buyers premiums when they bring their items to the auction house and ask what the fees are.

I guess the answer is for me to start charging buyers premiums, and then lower my commissions so that I charge EXACTLY the same as I do now, but then my competitors would lose the ability to lie in that way.

[kovacs01]

I once held the title "MC Grammar" in elementary school. 

Maybe so, but you clearly did not hold the title "MC Spelling", Mr. Succint.

[CSM]

Maybe so, but you clearly did not hold the title "MC Spelling", Mr. Succint.

 

[kovacs01]

You are wrong, David. I have lost at least three quality consignments where the sellers were flat out told that the other place charged lower fees than I do. They believed those lies and "went with the place that charged less", when in actuality, I charge less AT EVERY SINGLE PRICE POINT (as Enki once took the time to write out, and is easily verified).

I guess the answer is for me to start charging buyers premiums, and then lower my commissions so that I charge EXACTLY the same as I do now, but then my competitors would lose the ability to lie in that way.

You have the wrong idea Bruce.  What you need to do is just charge "premiums".  Install a 10% fee for every transaction.  Charge the sellers 10% of the estimated value to list it for them.  Charge the buyers 10% of the hammer price to buy from you.  Charge the sellers 10% of the hammer price before you release their funds to them.  Also charge the buyers your paypal fees plus 10% on top of what the fees are for your trouble.  Never mind that you have to pay paypal fees on the fee you are charging to cover the paypal fee.  Oh, also charge an extra 10% in USD any time a foreign buyer wants to use other than USD.  Charge this to the consignors too if they want their money in anything other than USD.  Finally, force the USPS, Fedex, etc to reduce their charges by 10% just for the pleasure of doing business with you.  Don't claim any of these 10% fees on your taxes.