CGC Slabbed Lobby Cards.... a new trend?

[Dr Hackenbush]

I bought 90% percent of my back issues from 3 shops, I knew them all for years, I trusted the grade each and every one put on a book and guess what, I actually educated myself as well on grading

And so did a number of collectors only to find that the book they paid good money for had undisclosed resto (Fantazia, anyone).  And buying from one of the most well known collectors with one of the greatest collections (and I don't mean Kerry Haggard), only to find out 15 -20 years later that the expensive pedigree book had been worked on.  Just because resto/fakes are part of the hobby doesn't mean that collectors having an avenue to verify this is a bad thing.  Has CGC been fooled?  Yes, see Jason Ewert, but overall I believe they've been good for the hobby.  Have they made certain books more expensive?  Many, yes, but those books were expensive in the 70's, 80's, and 90's.  I agree that slabbing has created a segment of collectors that only chase numbers, and has made comics, coins, and sports cards more of a commodity - and that's a shame - but with the good comes the bad.  It's up to the individual to decide how much bad they can take before they get fed up

[CSM]

Going to have to agree to disagree. I believe there is not 1 good thing slabbing comics has done for the hobby. It costs collectors money and lines dealers pockets. I bought 90% percent of my back issues from 3 shops, I knew them all for years, I trusted the grade each and every one put on a book and guess what, I actually educated myself as well on grading.

CGC allows for ustrusting, lazy collectors with deep pockets to spend inflated prices to NOT read the comic, but to say they have the highest CGC grade or 1 of 10 of xyz grade. It is absolutely ridiculous.

The restored/fakes are part of any hobby; and if someone had enough money I promise you, you can loophole cgc as well.

Why not buy a mint cover and slab it, that is all you will ever see anyway.

Can you tell this subject grinds a nerve?!

On topic... slabbing a lobby makes more sense than a comic as it is a singular piece of paper which can still be enjoyed and presented as originally intended when printed. Still dont agree with it.

I think you misunderstood me.  I am in agreement with Angelo's post NOT the slabbing of lobbies/posters.

[brude]

I think I'll do an animated test reel on this subject....and I think I'll name it..

                                                          SLABBERWOCKY
                                                                                                yeah, that's it....that's the ticket...DONE

[Harry Caul]

So as far as I can tell, Heritage has never sold a slabbed lobby card before (based on their archives).  However, in the upcoming signature auction they have no less than 54 different auctions offering CGC-graded and slabbed lobbies.  And 21 one of those auctions are for sets of 8... so over 200 slabbed cards in total.  That seems like quite a (rapid) departure from the norm...

Is this a fluke?  Did all these cards come from the same consignor?  Or is Heritage grading and slabbing them?  Is this going to be a new trend?  Does this mean our humble little hobby is growing up?

Well, I know they still haven't listed everything for the Nov. Signature auction, but Heritage isn't listing any slabbed lobbies so far...

Was it not worth the cost?

[Dr Hackenbush]

From the ones I remember, very few garnered a premium.  Most sold at or below market. Not sure if that's a reflection on slabbed lobbies, the economy, or that the last Sig auction had a bunch of passed lots & ones selling well below valuations

[Dr Hackenbush]

Just looked through the lots again and noticed they added some slabbed LCs

[Harry Caul]

Maybe the ones that didn't sell last auction 

[Ari]

Slightly off topic, but thought I'd post this while we are talking slabbing elsewhere.
This is years old, from my Coin days, interesting USA slabs coins, the rest of the world PRETTY MUCH disdains the practice. Although theres a couple of dealers here in oz trying to push it. When I was working in the industry if a client bought some slabbed coins in to sell, we would crack it open and regrade, and sell UN SLABBED, always. Something else of interest, one dealer here who does get his coins slabbed, when he sends them off to USA, if he gets back a grade he is not happy with he, breaks it open and resends the item/s and hopes for a better grade next time, and it sometimes works. We found the coins over graded most times though.

Personally I wouldn't get anything slabbed, unless it became they best way to sell valuable pieces and I had a/some valuable pieces. Bit for ME, never, I like PAPER.


PS this is an article from an Australian Coin and Banknote magazine, called... Australian Coin and Banknote Magazine!

[brude]

Every time I hear the word 'slab,' I think of Linnea Quigley in RETURN OF THE LIVING DEAD.
I'm thinking that's a good thing....

Linnea's best parts...

[guest4185]

Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly are slabbed LCs?
I think I'd be happy to watch Linnea dance on her slab

[MoviePosterBid.com]

I think I'd be happy to watch Linnea dance on her slab

screw that crap.. I want her to dance on my slab!!

[Ari]

Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly are slabbed LCs?

See my post above, but put a lobby card in instead of a coin.

[guest4185]

I've got some coins like that - who would want to do that to a lobby card.
As for Rich's suggestion, yes I'd be in that!

[Ari]

I wouldn't like any paper slabbed, or coins (not that I collect them at ALL - except fake ones).

[110x75]

I wouldn't like any paper slabbed, or coins (not that I collect them at ALL - except fake ones).

Coins also?
Ferkin fakes Mr. Offaleater!!

[Ari]

well I have never paid for one, but when they came into the shop I grabbed them, kinda find it interesting.

[Bruce]

You REALLY never paid for "one"?

Bruce

[Ari]

hmmm, I might be missing a joke... but....

I never paid for a coin in my life (except with work $ for work stock), have no interest in them, when fakes came in, I laughed at them, the boss would throw them in the bin and I would rescue them.

Stuff like common date pennies, FAKED, they were never worth a lot of money even when in use, and aren't now (5c for a real one) SO WHO FAKED THEM? and WHY?

Only ones Boss wouldn't let me have were 1930 Australian Penny fakes, even they sell for $300 or so, so collectors can fill the hole in their penny collection and can't afford the real deal.

Once the boss paid a LOT (around $21K from memory) for a very rare coin, that turned out to be a fake, OOOPS.

[erik1925]

the CGC slabs that Heritage has are on a trial basis to see how they do.
I contacted CGC's Mark Haspel about MPB doing a monthly auction of CGC cards, but I haven't heard back from him.. I'll be calling him soon I guess

My best guess.. CGC slabs will become popular within a group of collectors. The slabs are not uber-thick like the comic book slabs and so the storage space issue will be a non-issue.

The effect they will have on restoration I don't think will be as clear cut as it is in comics, but for material that is not incredibly rare like Uni horror, pre-WW2 etc I suspect it will create a move away from restored material, although on rarities, it will just stratify the market as there will never be enough of them in 7.0 and above to satisfy the market. It will be like the difference between those who can afford a CGC 6.0 Action #1 unrestored and a 6.0 restored where there is an incredible differentiation in price

I say CGC slabbed lc's are here to stay, but I doubt it will migrate to larger poster sizes such as wc's or jlc's

I was curious about how many items in HA's last Sig auction were slabbed and GCG graded, and found that a number of early threads were started and discussed this topic. Matt started this thread way back in 2010, when he noticed that HA was offering slabbed & graded LC for the first time.

I decided to go thru the Nov 2017 catalog, to check out the current trend, all these years later. Here are the CGC-graded and slabbed LC that were offered a couple weeks ago.

And, as Rich also mentioned in 2010, only slabbed LC were offered. No graded/encapsulated JLC or WC were in the lineup.



Session 1: (most of the graded items were offered here)

LC set ( but offered individually) from The Maltese Falcon (1931). Range of grade was 9.0 - 9.6

This Gun For Hire (1942), graded 8.5

Flying Down to Rio (1933), graded 6.0

Hallelujah (1929); 3 cards, graded 7.0, 8.5 & 9.2

Set for Mr Smith Goes to Washington (1939),  grade range of 7.5 - 9.0

Platinum Blonde (1931), graded 6.5



Session 2:

Flash Gordon (1936), graded 9.2




Session 3:

Undersea Kingdom (1936), graded 6.0



And just a side observation: None of the selection of Universal horror LC offered were CGC slabbed or graded.

[jayn_j]

I'll admit to winning the Flying Down to Rio card.  I probably paid a bit much for it, but if anything, the fact that it was slabbed was a negative for me.

The apparent condition seems higher than 6,0, but who can tell before I see the actual card.  If it is as it appears, I will remove it from its tomb and consider having the tear on the right side restored.

[erik1925]

Congrats on that win, Jay. Looks very nice. 

I wonder what would warrant it a 6.0? Maybe the 1" tear? Considering it barely goes into the image, I wonder what other criteria were used for assigning that number.

And I wonder, too, based on this thread (and others here), how it's determined what will be sent off to be slabbed & graded by CGC? Or I wonder if HA is also consigned LC that have already been graded by CGC, having been sent in by the consignor/owner?

As I mentioned, none of the Uni horror LC were slabbed or graded. They were offered "naked" to the world with the assigned grades that the HA staff gave them.

And if you have it restored, will its potential value (let's say it was graded again by CGC, post restore, sometime in the future) go up? Remain the same? Go down?

I would imagine that anything that CGC looks at and grades a LC that has had any kind of restoration, that info would be noted on the label across the top of the slab, or maybe they use a different kind of "post-restore" scale?

All interesting stuff for sure, when this company looks at, and then assigns their grade to an item (in addition to the C-scale and Scale that uses Fine, VF, Good, NM etc).

 

[jayn_j]

If you look through the Heritage history, you will find that this same card has been auctioned (slabbed and graded 6.0) three times in the last four years

There are fans of the CGC grading, but I have some issues.

I looked at Bruces and HA for graded and slabbed lobbies.  I then went and looked at unslabbed lobbies of that title.  I can't seem to find a correlation between slabbing and increased value.

A good example is The Beatles Let it Be.  There are both slabbed and raw copies with similar dates. 
Card #3 - Slabbed condition 9.8 from CGC and VG to Fine from Bruce sold for $107 in 2013.  Raw VG-Fine sold for $141 in 2017 and Good condition for $80 in 2014.  I got similar results for other titles.

I believe CGC is using the criteria they use on comics to assign a grade.  I believe they are consistent among themselves, but I don't think they are aligned with the grading used by the poster hobby.  They are pickier on some things, and I suspect less picky on others (tape on back??)  I have not seen the poster yet, but if it is as shown in the picture with no surprises, I would probably grade this one as a 7.5.  Unfortunately, HA is notorious in not providing condition details.

[erik1925]

So the same card would always maintain that grade of 6.0, as the card was not removed or touched since that initial grading time.

The correlation between slabbing and value is an interesting one. But I was more curious, too, how a restored item would compare, grade-wise. For example, right now, your LC is CGC graded 6.0. If you had that tear fixed and anything else done to it, and sent it to CGC again, I wonder how they would grade it then? And would be it be graded as a restored item?

I'll have to take the time to look thru the HA history, too.

As a somewhat related side note, I actually own a piece (not graded or slabbed) that was also auctioned 3x thru HA.

When I found and bid on this item a few years ago (it's a US HS), it was in a small auction in Ohio. It has a couple telltale issues that make it very easy to ID it as the same HS that Heritage had auctioned previously.

[MoviePosterBid.com]

If you look through the Heritage history, you will find that this same card has been auctioned (slabbed and graded 6.0) three times in the last four years

There are fans of the CGC grading, but I have some issues.

I looked at Bruces and HA for graded and slabbed lobbies.  I then went and looked at unslabbed lobbies of that title.  I can't seem to find a correlation between slabbing and increased value.

A good example is The Beatles Let it Be.  There are both slabbed and raw copies with similar dates. 
Card #3 - Slabbed condition 9.8 from CGC and VG to Fine from Bruce sold for $107 in 2013.  Raw VG-Fine sold for $141 in 2017 and Good condition for $80 in 2014.  I got similar results for other titles.

I believe CGC is using the criteria they use on comics to assign a grade.  I believe they are consistent among themselves, but I don't think they are aligned with the grading used by the poster hobby.  They are pickier on some things, and I suspect less picky on others (tape on back??)  I have not seen the poster yet, but if it is as shown in the picture with no surprises, I would probably grade this one as a 7.5.  Unfortunately, HA is notorious in not providing condition details.

#1 on the actual grade.. with that tear, you can't go above C-6/7 aka 6.5.. and nobody should think if it gets restored, it is worth a higher grade

#2 the CGC Let it Be cards that they sold were previously sold on Heritage for considerably more

#3 in movie posters, does a CGC grade=higher value?
NO. It makes a difference in comics because there are many collectors in a hyper-sensitive hobby that is almost entirely based on the financial outcome and that a 9.6 Fantastic Four #1 is in itself, a pedigree.
There is no such correlation in posters and the specific material is rare enough combined with a small enough audience that it doesn't make a difference. I don't know anyone who walks around saying "I will only buy a Son of Frankenstein lobby card if it is dead mint". That's because the cards are so rare, that collectors will buy what they can until they have a set and the condition will only matter when it gets below a certain level or is restored

[erik1925]

If you look through the Heritage history, you will find that this same card has been auctioned (slabbed and graded 6.0) three times in the last four years

There are fans of the CGC grading, but I have some issues.

I looked at Bruces and HA for graded and slabbed lobbies.  I then went and looked at unslabbed lobbies of that title.  I can't seem to find a correlation between slabbing and increased value.

A good example is The Beatles Let it Be.  There are both slabbed and raw copies with similar dates. 
Card #3 - Slabbed condition 9.8 from CGC and VG to Fine from Bruce sold for $107 in 2013.  Raw VG-Fine sold for $141 in 2017 and Good condition for $80 in 2014.  I got similar results for other titles.

I believe CGC is using the criteria they use on comics to assign a grade.  I believe they are consistent among themselves, but I don't think they are aligned with the grading used by the poster hobby.  They are pickier on some things, and I suspect less picky on others (tape on back??)  I have not seen the poster yet, but if it is as shown in the picture with no surprises, I would probably grade this one as a 7.5.  Unfortunately, HA is notorious in not providing condition details.

I looked & checked out the history of your FLYING DOWN TO RIO card.

Kind of a roller coaster in prices achieved. All 3 sales were held in one of HA's Sig Auctions:

In November of 2011 it sold for $1673.00 (inc. the BP)

In July of 2015, it sold again for only $956.00 (inc the BP)

And then with you, in November of 2017, for $2350.00 (inc. the BP)

Like anything, its always a bit of a crap shoot, never knowing who will want something as much as you.