Author Topic: Could anything cause poster values to plummet or will they continue to rise?  (Read 9602 times)

Offline Roughoutline

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See title.

Thoughts?

Offline oldposterho

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They can definitely plummet, see results from 2008 vs a couple of years later.  If/when the economy tanks again, expect posters and other non-essentials to take another dive.
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Offline jayn_j

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See title.

Thoughts?

Poster prices go up and down, often with the general economy.  They also are somewhat generational.  80s and 90s are hot now.  20 years ago, you couldn't give that stuff away.  However, westerns and musicals were hot then and much less value now on all but the most iconic titles.

You will find many threads here on the subject.  The general consensus is to collect what pleases you and don't worry about investment value.  You probably have a better shot at winning the lottery than in making a large windfall on a poster.  Especially true when you look at all the "what was I thinking" items you put in your collection 10 years ago.

I've got a Star Wars style D I paid $30 for in 1989, but I also have 30 other posters from that same period that are now worthless.  Want an Ishtar one sheet?  The Big Chill?  Cool Runnings?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 02:28:46 PM by jayn_j »
-Jay-

Offline Crazy Vick

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shotgun!


Offline Crazy Vick

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I agree with Peter and jay, at the same time, my wife who is at home with nothing to do but watch daytime TV sees show after show where interior designers were including vintage posters in their home designs.  So there is a trend I believe for vintage posters that grows among the new crop of human zombies I see wandering around Ikea all the time. Of course, it can't compete with major economic downturns, but its a positive force in the hobby I think.

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Poster prices go up and down, often with the general economy.  They also are somewhat generational.  80s and 90s are hot now.  20 years ago, you couldn't give that stuff away.  However, westerns and musicals were hot then and much less value now on all but the most iconic titles.

You will find many threads here on the subject.  The general consensus is to collect what pleases you and don't worry about investment value.  You probably have a better shot at winning the lottery than in making a large windfall on a poster.  Especially true when you look at all the "what was I thinking" items you put in your collection 10 years ago.

I've got a Star Wars style D I paid $30 for in 1989, but I also have 30 other posters from that same period that are now worthless.  Want an Ishtar one sheet?  The Big Chill?  Cool Runnings?


+ 1 As always very insightful Jay.

I have noticed a big jump in prices from 2009 (perhaps due to the Internet boom) and I think post recession say since 2014 there has been another rise. John Ford & Leone aside, I agree that westerns seem to be on the cheap-y side, shame as I collect them both. My next poster is likely to be a Ford western.

I think that for the value to continue to rise you need to depend on social trends like Star Wars phenomenon or similarly being adopted by the trend setters (home designers, vintage collectors etc) but it will only affect selected posters for the obvious reasons. This a limited hobby.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 02:52:53 PM by Mirosae »

Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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the answer to your question is that we are seeing it in 'real time'

it is no secret that I think one business is selling far more material than the small hobby can handle
the result is that material that sold for $800 a set (one example) is now selling for $150 in the same venue.

this is happening across the whole spectrum of materials and while I know the only solution is to reduce the amount of material being sold weekly, this solution is not going to happen.

at the same time, this over abundance of material is coming at a time when numerous factors are also working against prices on older material
the main factor being that older collectors slow down and do more de-acquisitioning
but another factor is purely economic
for instance, older collectors who lost everything in the financial collapse of 2007/08 are completely out. These older folks (if they lost their job) can't get another well paying job, they may have lost their entire retirement fund or seen it reduced. They were forced to sell their collections and they won't be coming back. so that kills older material

then newer material could be too common and with the same Wal Marting may not increase in value. A poster that sold for $20 in 2006 still selling for $20 today was a serious loss in value and the continued sale of such a title into a small market only depresses it further.

then you have the inability of the market to standardize in any way. One venue calls an item good very good, but almost all other dealers and venues call the same item fine. Just creates confusion.
so a standard grading across all dealers would be a plus to the hobby as a whole.
however getting all dealers to agree has z-e-r-o chance of happening.

this is unlike comic books - among the healthiest hobby of all paper hobbies (though not as good as it was 30 years ago) where there is a standard that all dealers agree to and an organization (CGC) that helps in that endeavor - plus a price guide (a PG is not possible or wanted in posters)

Posters does follow one market in a way that comic books does not. Like the stock market, prices go up and down. So while it is unexpected that a Dracula one sheet can sell for half of the previous sale in auction, it can indeed happen. In comics, this is less likely because to virtually all collectors and dealers, the standardization of the hobby means the perception of value is reasonably absolute.

but like I have said before : buy because you like it , not because you perceive and investment.
invest spiritually in posters and you can't go wrong. Do it expecting a large return, and you will probably be very disappointed

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Offline jayn_j

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Great reply, Rich, even if depressing.

Vick, regarding those home decorating porn shows, in my experience few of those designers care if the poster is original.  They are looking for the visual impact.  I saw a home in the Sunday paper that was decorated in a deco style.  They had a Gilda 1 sheet over the fireplace.  Do you honestly think they paid the $10k for a real one, or did they buy the repro from Amazon for $20 and spend $300 on the fancy framing?  What the designer wanted was the iconic image and wouldn't have settled for an original, but lesser title for the same money.

To follow up on these comments, my parents had a friend who collected sheets of commemorative postage stamps.  He had been doing it for 20-30 years.  He died in the late 1970s and his widow went to cash out.  She visited many dealers, but ultimately went back to the post office and accepted face value.  Poster collecting is somewhat better than coins and stamps since those of us in the hobby make no claims of large gains, but otoh, posters don't have any cash value to fall back on.  Just because it is 75 years old doesn't mean it has value.  Might still be a $10 poster.

« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 04:34:46 PM by jayn_j »
-Jay-

Online eatbrie

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I don't think you will see our niche hobby plummet.  As long as there are movies and people to see them, there will be collectors of movie posters.  If they stop printing posters, like I thought would have happened 5 years ago, the nostalgia factor will probably kick in and send more folks into the hobby.  Paper stuff, rare, fun.  

What I think will happen is a shift in what people collect.  When older collectors die, some of the stuff that they were so fervently collecting will probably die with them.  Some actors from the 40s and 50s will be forgotten.  A handful will remain in our collective consciousness.  Some new trends will appear, others will vanish.  When I started collecting in the early 2000s, I accumulated a lot of 80s posters, the era I grew up in.  They were dirt cheap, no one collected them.  Now my generation look at them with nostalgia and they're as a whole worth more than x10 what I paid for them.  One day in the future, the 2000s will be hot, and the 80s will be something of the past.

Let me give you another example.  I also collect XIX and XX century art.  XIX century was red hot 40 years ago, now it has cooled down a lot.  The old Masters will always be at the top, but a lot of average work that was selling a few decades ago is now dead.  People view it as grandma stuff.  They are more interested in contemporary and modern art.  And so it goes.  With the Chinese crash, contemporary art, which is way too high, will most surely take a gigantic hit in the coming years.  A lot of names fall off a cliff, a few survive and we all move forward.

T
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 05:02:44 PM by eatbrie »
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Online 50s

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I'd say all these art shops that churn out reproductions and all other reproductions coming out would devalue posters. I saw last week a framed Breakfast At Tiffany's reproduction in a frame leaned up in the curbside junk pile where it would have been taken if anyone had any interest. I would think people get desensitized to images if they are everywhere and they lose some desireabilty


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Offline erik1925

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+1, there Rich and T; interesting analysis and commentary, from both of you.

Always good to read from guys like you who know the hobby well, and have been dealing with both the art and paper aspects, and watching markets (in both posters and in fine art), for this long period of time.

In the end..it's has been said so many times by a good number here - buy what you like to collect, poster-wise and dont worry about the fluctuations in value. If the poster makes you smile, with also knowing that you have a little piece of that film and its history, that's all that matters at the end of the day.

 :)



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Offline Simes

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I don't see it plummeting.

Indeed I reckon it will continue to rise slightly, market economies not withstanding.

With the number of auction houses now selling posters, the people who find themselves interested in, but priced out of a certain poster, may decide to look at a film title not otherwise normally considered.  And so continue the rise of the hobby.

Surely, everything is subject to fluctuations.  But one might as well say, will the classic car market die?  People are now far more aware of antique values, or to just be aware of having a look into the potential value of something before binning, it for an already understood area such as posters to flail.  I believe.

Offline jayn_j

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In the end..it's has been said so many times by a good number here - buy what you like to collect, poster-wise and dont worry about the fluctuations in value. If the poster makes you smile, with also knowing that you have a little piece of that film and its history, that's all that matters at the end of the day.

And you really need to factor in the smiles per day that the poster brings.  Look at that poster in my avatar.  I'm quite proud of that one.  I bought it from Bruce back in his quarterly catalog days, for I think $300.  It is a nice vibrant image from the late 1920s.  Based on a popular book by a popular author.  Starring Richard Dix (Richard who?), a hearthrob and long standing actor until the mid 1940s.  AFAIK, it is the only known copy.  Linenbacked.  However, if I sold it, I doubt I would get anywhere near the $300 I paid.

Doesn't matter.  It has been hanging since 1992 and I still smile when I look at it.  So, what is the value of 8700 days worth of smiles?  That one owes me nothing.
-Jay-

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Indeed I reckon it will continue to rise slightly, market economies not withstanding.

Sadly, movie posters are not a refuge against market crashes the way fine art is.  Not expensive enough to be legit.

T
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Offline erik1925

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And you really need to factor in the smiles per day that the poster brings.  Look at that poster in my avatar.  I'm quite proud of that one.  I bought it from Bruce back in his quarterly catalog days, for I think $300.  It is a nice vibrant image from the late 1920s.  Based on a popular book by a popular author.  Starring Richard Dix (Richard who?), a hearthrob and long standing actor until the mid 1940s.  AFAIK, it is the only known copy.  Linenbacked.  However, if I sold it, I doubt I would get anywhere near the $300 I paid.

Doesn't matter.  It has been hanging since 1992 and I still smile when I look at it.  So, what is the value of 8700 days worth of smiles?  That one owes me nothing.

Its a beauty, Jay. Could you post a larger image of it? I'd love to see more of the detail.


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Offline jayn_j

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Surely, everything is subject to fluctuations.  But one might as well say, will the classic car market die?  People are now far more aware of antique values, or to just be aware of having a look into the potential value of something before binning, it for an already understood area such as posters to flail.  I believe.

We've talked about this before.  The overall market may not die, but certain segments, such as pre-1960 can die as collectors get old.  The classic car market is a great example.  Back in the 1970s-80s, a lot of depression babies bought and restored Model A Fords.  Those values skyrocketed to the point where a good roadster was going for well into 6 figures.  But in the early 90s, those same depression kids were getting too old to work on and drive those cars.  They all sold off and the market was gutted and crashed.  It has never recovered.  These days it is baby boomers that have money, so muscle cars are hot.  But I see an end to that soon as well.  Us boomers are now in our 60s and 70s.  I predict a crash in 60s muscle, replaced by hot hatches of the 80s in the next ten years.  Early GTIs are already climbing in price.  Aircooled Porsches are out of reach.

Unfortunately, the poster industry doesn't fare as well.  80s is hot now, but there is a consensus that with a few exceptions, post 90 stuff is not only boring, but it was distributed in very large quantities.  No shortage situation to drive up prices.  It is hard to get excited about a Revenge of the jedi, Lucky Strike Pulp Fiction, or Why So Serious batman when they show up monthly at auction.
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Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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And you really need to factor in the smiles per day that the poster brings.  Look at that poster in my avatar.  I'm quite proud of that one.  I bought it from Bruce back in his quarterly catalog days, for I think $300.  It is a nice vibrant image from the late 1920s.  Based on a popular book by a popular author.  Starring Richard Dix (Richard who?), a hearthrob and long standing actor until the mid 1940s.  AFAIK, it is the only known copy.  Linenbacked.  However, if I sold it, I doubt I would get anywhere near the $300 I paid.

Doesn't matter.  It has been hanging since 1992 and I still smile when I look at it.  So, what is the value of 8700 days worth of smiles?  That one owes me nothing.

in your case $300 divided by 8700= 3.4 cents a day. sounds like a bargain to me.

We've talked about this before.  The overall market may not die, but certain segments, such as pre-1960 can die as collectors get old.  The classic car market is a great example.  Back in the 1970s-80s, a lot of depression babies bought and restored Model A Fords.  Those values skyrocketed to the point where a good roadster was going for well into 6 figures.  But in the early 90s, those same depression kids were getting too old to work on and drive those cars.  They all sold off and the market was gutted and crashed.  It has never recovered.  These days it is baby boomers that have money, so muscle cars are hot.  But I see an end to that soon as well.  Us boomers are now in our 60s and 70s.  I predict a crash in 60s muscle, replaced by hot hatches of the 80s in the next ten years.  Early GTIs are already climbing in price.  Aircooled Porsches are out of reach.

Unfortunately, the poster industry doesn't fare as well.  80s is hot now, but there is a consensus that with a few exceptions, post 90 stuff is not only boring, but it was distributed in very large quantities.  No shortage situation to drive up prices.  It is hard to get excited about a Revenge of the jedi, Lucky Strike Pulp Fiction, or Why So Serious batman when they show up monthly at auction.

the best example of any crash is the Dutch Tulip Economy

other areas of U.S. collecting that have taken a nosedive:

furniture types: Federal, Country (I forget the exact term for this type), Civil War era, Revolutionary era. as a matter of fact, Art Deco has taken a dive and post-modern & 60s/70s are essentially the only areas that sell well at all.

Baseball cards: field has taken a dive like no other

Stamps: this field is quickly becoming complete mush

Post cards: another mush field

Vintage Newspapers: I have newspapers to 1800. they are worth less today than they were 50 years ago (the comics & Black Sox or key material withstanding)

Cars: more and more this field keys in on very specific makes and models and as Jay said - it's collapsed in many areas. more and more you have 3 tiers multi-million dollar cars, $75k-200k cars and used cars. The areas in between are like deserts

to think this can't happen to posters is shortsighted
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 07:27:19 PM by MoviePosterBid.com »

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Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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oh.. I forget pulps & magazines.

such limited interest at this point in the game, I'm looking to start getting rid of 35 long boxes of pulps & 50 boxes of vintage magazines

good thing I have the paperback convention coming up soon

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Offline 110x75

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A brutal devaluation of the local currency made by a moronic right wing, useless piece of f*ck president is a good cause for poster prices to rise. Everything I want to purchase -from non argentinean sellers- is now 50% more expensive. eyeroll
Matias
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Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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A brutal devaluation of the local currency made by a moronic right wing, useless piece of f*ck president is a good cause for poster prices to rise. Everything I want to purchase -from non argentinean sellers- is now 50% more expensive. eyeroll

yeah that is another issue..

well.. buy more Argentinian posters!

 ;)

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Offline 110x75

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It's a good plan, Rich  ;)
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Offline BruceH

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I keep hearing from some people how the sky is falling and how most prices are going to zero.

I keep hearing from some other people how insane many prices are, and how the people who pay those prices will surely lose their shirts.

Some people say I am ruining the market by auctioning too many items and that I am giving lots of stuff away.

Some other people say I get sky high prices and that only a fool would pay those prices.

Whenever I get a really nice, desirable poster in nice unrestored condition, it does great and almost always sell for much more than it did the last time.

When I get not very desirable posters in lesser condition, they almost always sell for less than they did the last time.

What does all that add up to?

Beats me!
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 10:26:58 PM by BruceH »
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We have auctioned more movie paper for more money (in real sales) than any auction in the world.
We have the longest continuously running auctions of any auction, with over 1,914,280 to date from over 3,192 consignors.
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Offline jayn_j

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...and every auction, you send me an e-mail about how you are giving them away and half the posters are still under $5.  And somehow I end up paying $50 for those $5 posters :)

($52 and $38 for the two "cheap ones" I won tonight)
-Jay-