Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....

[ATLfun]

by the way.. some people here seemto think that the reason the Gangs posters were pulled is directly attributed to being spoken about here. While it might be possible that the consignor saw this post, realized he sent Bruce a goldmine and called for the posters back. However, it isn't likely as a "% of possibilities" issue.

Just like in poker, as you add up these factors, it becomes a real longshot that the consignor saw this thread and if they did, they probably are already a knowledgable consignor and only learned what he didn't meant o consign he accidentally did..

  Rich your premise is wrong.  Bruce saw the post, and changed it to "less than 20" in the auction description faster than a duck on a june bug.
Then all the consignor had to do was check his own auction description on emovie.  Which is highly likely to almost a certainity.  No one has ever suggested that the consignor saw the APF thread. 


  Brian

[ATLfun]

But since so many thought the reported 20 examples of each was nonsense, there will surely be lots more of these offered soon, now that this thread HAS greatly publicized them, so that is a side benefit of this thread, to let people know what is truly desired, so they are more likely to offer them for sale or auction, whether on my site, on eBay, or elsewhere.

Bruce

  Bruce, where was this ever mentioned?  My post was that you latched onto this "less than 20" like P.T. Barnum when there were little supporting evidence other than Mark's belief in what he was once told. As T posted, the term "very rare" would have been more appropriate.  I challenge you to find one post that said that this poster's supply was not limited.  

 I even posted, that the poster had never been sold by either you nor Heritage which combined constitutes over 750,000 searchable auction results. Odds are this set of posters will not be seen again for several years.  

Brian

[CSM]

So Mel, why not explain away the post/quote that Ves dug up instead of skirting around the issue with a post that could be interpreted as displaying some level of overt misogyny (or at least chauvinism)?

Would you post a picture of a panda if it was one of the male members who called you out?

[Cj]

CJ, of course I deliberately waited until it hit $1,000 and had attracted multiple $1,000 bids.  In addition, the seller is selling several high profile Bond posters, which always attract attention on Ebay.  Plus every serious Bond collector knows this is a rare poster.  Any reasonable person would conclude any element of secrecy was gone by that point. Furthermore, as it turns out, a fat wallet first bidder in the first 24 hours had already placed at least a $1600 opening bid (and probably $3500), so all this talk about getting it at a steal was a fantasy from minute one.  If somebody other than me had "outed" that auction at that point, I would have totally OK with it.

My point is once it was out of your price range and you figured you had no shot in hell - you outed it. If you thought you had a chance you would have never done so. Outing it did exactly what for you? Did you gain anything out of it? Didn't think so!!

The LucasFilm sales were for charity.  Really, if anything should be "outed," shouldn't it be charity auctions? Scrooge!

Of course charity auctions should be talked about. In fact I would encourage anyone who comes across a charity auction to start a new topic to try and get as much exposure as possible.

However, I was never talking about the charity auctions - Douchebag! I was talking about the two bond auctions.

The Mad Max was the highest priced item for several days. Let's not pretend that most of the people on this forum don't check the Emovie and Heritage listings.

It does not matter if it was the highest priced item. It was still only $500.00 and after you outed, whether it was coincidental or not, another bidder joined the fun with in the hour of your post I believe (outpost31). You possibly costed Schan some additional coin... for what...and I say it again..what did you gain from it?

My argument is not whether members and lurk-ers check Emovie and Heritage. What I argue is the frequency they check it. Like I said I dont check it every week and I am sure there are many others who don't either.

The Black Swans were sold in the major/mini auction. Let's not pretend those were sub rosa auctions.  Anyway, they sold for relative modest amounts, undercutting your point that these posts materially influence prices.

Your right they did sell for a relatively modest amount and it proved you wrong with your prediction. Lets face it Mel, we are talking Black Swan Posters not Black Cat posters.


Honesty Mel, I could really give a shit anymore what gets posted here. So post away with auctions you lose interest in and are out of your price range or you cant afford. Fuck everyone else as it doesn't matter because somehow or someway you will try and justify that any auction you post is high profile or whatever.

Cj

[Cj]

Hey Mark,

I really don't think anyone (at least I don't) has a problem with what you posted. There was something to be learned about the posters and it brought on some good conversation that a lot of people benefited from. It is just too bad they got pulled what ever the reason was.

Cj

[ATLfun]

Would you post a picture of a panda if it was one of the male members who called you out?

  Mel probably would have chosen this one for a male member.


                       

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

However, I was never talking about the charity auctions - Douchebag! I was talking about the two bond auctions....

Honesty Mel, I could really give a shit anymore what gets posted here. So post away with auctions you lose interest in and are out of your price range or you cant afford. Fuck everyone else as it doesn't matter because somehow or someway you will try and justify that any auction you post is high profile or whatever.

Cj

Some people here have totally lost self-control in this argument and it's really out of character.  We're opponents in this argument, not blood enemies, contrary to the way you all are acting.

I haven't "flip-flopped" positions either. Ves picked out one quote from a very long argument that went on for some time.  I said way back then that I believed $1,000 and "common sense" were good yardsticks for discussing pending auctions.

By and large, this whole argument is simply a reprise of the earlier arguments. 

[Cj]

Mel Your absolutely right. I did lose self control and it is out of character for me to name call. I do apologize for calling you a douchebag.

Cj

[kovacs01]

Some people here have totally lost self-control in this argument and it's really out of character.  We're opponents in this argument, not blood enemies, contrary to the way you all are acting.

I haven't "flip-flopped" positions either. Ves picked out one quote from a very long argument that went on for some time.  I said way back then that I believed $1,000 and "common sense" were good yardsticks for discussing pending auctions.

By and large, this whole argument is simply a reprise of the earlier arguments. 

The whole $1000 number is a complete crock.  Either you do it or you don't.  To put assign arbitrary value and use that number to justify something as being now formally or informally "ok" is moronic.

[Harry Caul]

Mel, your attempts to justify 'outing' posters after they have left your price range or area of interest have clearly fallen on deaf ears.  In fact, you aren't even arguing for the right to 'out' posters, you are trying to defend your decision to be a hypocrite -- you agree that there are rules, but you think that it is ok for you to decide when they are enforced or not.  And you aren't even responding to anyone's comments, you are just slapping up some sales results, plugging your ears, and saying "I'm not hurting anyone!" over and over.  I'm really quite dumbfounded. 

We're opponents in this argument, not blood enemies, contrary to the way you all are acting.

I frankly find it quite laughable that you are now trying to play the victim and take the high road!

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

The whole $1000 number is a complete crock.  Either you do it or you don't.  To put assign arbitrary value and use that number to justify something as being now formally or informally "ok" is moronic.

Do you people not understand that ad hominem attacks are logically meaningless, the weakest form of argument, and totally inappropriate?

I said that $1,000 is a good yardstick.  It's not an absolute rule.  You may disagree, but it's a totally reasonable - hardly moronic - position.

I think this forum should be about sharing and engaging in spirited and fun discussion.  Discussing pending auctions should be part of it, with reasonable precaution (such as a $1,000 rule) for protecting true bargains.  Reasonable people can disagree on it.

Mel, your attempts to justify 'outing' posters after they have left your price range or area of interest have clearly fallen on deaf ears.

No, we're having the same argument we had at the beginning of this thread.  The same "deaf ear" people who wanted to ban discussion of pending auctions have - once again - vociferously repeated the same arguments they made - and lost - a year ago. Now they've lost again and are making a big fuss about it.

[kovacs01]

Ok, well i think the rule should be $14,531,482.  Is anyone else with me?  If there are enough supporters, then perhaps this number can replace $1000 as the point where it is ok.   

[Zorba]

Ok, well i think the rule should be $14,531,482.  Is anyone else with me?  If there are enough supporters, then perhaps this number can replace $1000 as the point where it is ok.   

Signed.

[brude]

I said that $1,000 is a good yardstick.  It's not an absolute rule.  You may disagree, but it's a totally reasonable - hardly moronic - position.

I think this forum should be about sharing and engaging in spirited and fun discussion.  Discussing pending auctions should be part of it, with reasonable precaution (such as a $1,000 rule) for protecting true bargains.  Reasonable people can disagree on it.

No, we're having the same argument we had at the beginning of this thread.  The same "deaf ear" people who wanted to ban discussion of pending auctions have - once again - vociferously repeated the same arguments they made - and lost - a year ago. Now they've lost again and are making a big fuss about it.

I am really trying hard to follow your logic, Mel.
You seem to contradict yourself within a single post.
Is $1000 your arbitrary rule or is it not?
If so, then why did you out MAD MAX -- just last week -- when it was only halfway to your established threshold?
If you can't follow your own rules, then you shouldn't be playing this game.

And, as far as "winning or losing" this argument, you might feel like you won when in fact you are turning more and more members away from you.
That sounds like a losing position to me.

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Ok, well i think the rule should be $14,531,482.  Is anyone else with me?  If there are enough supporters, then perhaps this number can replace $1000 as the point where it is ok.   

Schan, you've missed the point.  There are three possibilities:

(1) We NEVER discuss pending auctions.

(2) We come up with a middle position.

(3) We have NO restrictions on discussions.

Holiday has already said (3) is the rule.  As a courtesy to others, I'd like to develop some kind of reasonable middle position.

But the point is that it is probably going to be impossible to come up with a middle position that everyone will agree with.  In the end, it's going to require some subjective determination by the poster and somebody else is going to vociferously disagree with that determination.

So why don't you forthrightly admit that your position is (1) and you will never change your mind about it?  Or at least try to formulate a workable middle position.

[Harry Caul]

I said that $1,000 is a good yardstick.

So you think it is ok for you to decide when the rules change.  That is by definition hypocritical and that is exactly what we are talking about, it is not an ad hominem attack.  Care to respond that that charge instead of continuing to "misdirect", "playing the victim", using "straw-man arguments", holding up "past data like it can factually predict the future", or any of the weak and inappropriate forms of argument you are trying to employ?

Do you people not understand that ad hominem attacks are logically meaningless, the weakest form of argument, and totally inappropriate?

[Charlie]

The only guy I buy from on auctions on eBay is MoviePosterJapan, whom I highly recommend.  I see the same auctions as you, and you can bid on the same auctions as me. 

And he'll kick your ass too; just might as well not bid...  Did you guys see the Black Swan B1 not sell at $280 opening bid?

[Harry Caul]

As a courtesy to others, I'd like to develop some kind of reasonable middle position.

I'm pretty sure we are all arguing that we should be courteous to everyone regardless of their area of interest or collecting budget.  You have decided that you can pick and choose who you are courteous to.

[MoviePosterBid.com]

I follow Holiday's rules.
which are no rules

[CSM]

I'm pretty sure we are all arguing that we should be courteous to everyone regardless of their area of interest or collecting budget.  You have decided that you can pick and choose who you are courteous to.

This is getting closer to the heart of the argument.

[CSM]

I follow Holiday's rules.
which are no rules

You must live in Las Vegas or something? 

[Charlie]

Wow! I missed a lot in two days...  I see both sides here. 

If Mel was truly outing a poster because it was out of his price range then that is a bit reckless even if it passes the $1000 invisible-bar.  However, if we really think about it (and I can see that this may have been the reason for the post), what are the chances that the bond poster in question or future bond posters are not already known by the folks who are going to bid from the forum; especially at the $1000 level?  If you are willing to spend $1000+ on a bond, most likely you have your saved searches telling you everyday that this one or others are up.  If you are a Bond guy, willing to spend 1K and you haven't figured out saved searches then your pretty much an idiot, or new.  Just admit it; every forum member who would bid, already knew about this one. And if your just bidding on a whim after finding out, then that just provides a good reason to restrict certain threads to "members only".  Is this possible Holiday?

In regards to the Mad Max, didn't Bruce post it in his thread?  Plus if you are a buyer of Bruce's then you have made a want list and if you are going to drop $500 on a Mad Max then you most likely have this title on your want list.  If you don't, again you're either an idiot, rich, or new. If fact I would say that Mel's post may have actually lowered the ending price.  Once I saw Mel's post I didn't even bother to watch it to the end. 

I can see others acting the same way on the Bond.  "Its already at $1,000 after 3 days?  I'm out"  Even though their bid may be near $2,000, they realized that the "Fat-Wallets" are already aware of it and they bail... They may check back to only confirm there assumptions.

With all this said, I once outed a group of daybill auctions from the same seller including a few bond daybills.  I even presumed I was ruining a good deal for someone and posed the question of breaking the poster "bro-code".  But being the newbie, the first thing I was told was that the post should have been in this thread.  Chris even comforted me indicating the seller would appreciate the publicity and then toyed with me asking why I would even have an Aussie want list.  It was all in good fun...  I was not hacked to death.   

Am I breaking the poster Bro-Code by notifying people of these type of deals?  I already have one of these; its is a super nice poster and its only $18 right now...  He is also selling other nice posters; there is a Bond and others all pretty cheap...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320719760204&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,2579.msg39480.html#msg39480

Isn't some of the in-fighting over the past few days just a bit, what's the word Chris used, "derisory".  Come on guys...  I know it sucks that an auction you were going to bid on gets outed, but did you really think you were going to get it for $1500 with all the vultures that are out there?  Yes, I know the "you don't know for sure" argument and you would be right.  But the stars would have to align and elephants fly to really get a steal on something as high profile as the Bond. 
 
However, with my experiences on the forum to-date, I think that there should be a certain courtesy before outing an auction:

1. PM anyone first who you think would want the posters (Mel, T, Ted, and Matias have done this for me; Thanks!)
2. Instead of outing a particular auction maybe post "I have seen a killer Bond auction on the Ebay; PM me if you don't know about it."
3. Be the second guy to out it so you can always have plausible deniability.

Else, just start collecting Stargate.  Nobody outs that title....

[CSM]

Isn't some of the in-fighting over the past few days just a bit, what's the word Chris used, "derisory".  Come on guys...  I know it sucks that an auction you were going to bid on gets outed, but did you really think you were going to get it for $1500 with all the vultures that are out there?  Yes, I know the "you don't know for sure" argument and you would be right.  But the stars would have to align and elephants fly to really get a steal on something as high profile as the Bond. 
 
However, with my experiences on the forum to-date, I think that there should be a certain courtesy before outing an auction:

1. PM anyone first who you think would want the posters (Mel, T, Ted, and Matias have done this for me; Thanks!)
2. Instead of outing a particular auction maybe post "I have seen a killer Bond auction on the Ebay; PM me if you don't know about it."
3. Be the second guy to out it so you can always have plausible deniability.

Charlie, the issue is NOT that people thought they were going to get the Bond poster or any other poster for peanuts - most of the collectors that frequent here are much more realistic and experienced than that - it really all comes down to a disagreement (basically) on the motivation of an "outer", respect for fellow collectors and a lack of trully justified responses to many pointed comments and questions.

Oh and most venereal word imaginable - censorship!  

[Harry Caul]

I'm pretty sure we are all arguing that we should be courteous to everyone regardless of their area of interest or collecting budget.  You have decided that you can pick and choose who you are courteous to.

So I'll now pose this to you Charlie... because of your preconceived notions about "Bond collectors", you believe it is ok to 'out' those auctions but not others?  Like Mel you are trying to qualify the hypocrisy in your position with statements and language like the following:

what are the chances that the bond poster in question or future bond posters are not already known by the folks who are going to bid from the forum; especially at the $1000 level?

Just admit it; every forum member who would bid, already knew about this one.

Yes, I know the "you don't know for sure" argument and you would be right. But the stars would have to align and elephants fly to really get a steal on something as high profile as the Bond.

Regardless of what we think will happen, at the end of the day no one really knows. It is disingenuous for you or Mel to state as fact that you do know, and then try to use that to back up your inconsistent rules.  Treat everyone fairly is all I ask.  Either out all auctions, even for stuff you are bidding on... or wait until they are over discuss.  Otherwise you are a hypocrite an no amount of qualifications will change that.

[MoviePosterBid.com]

You must live in Las Vegas or something? 

yes.. Holiday's rules are the rules out here too