Author Topic: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....  (Read 2203903 times)

Offline TheAnswerMVP2001

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #1275 on: October 14, 2011, 01:15:33 AM »
Holiday, you are making about the only legit argument one could make... That you think it might help someone. I just happen to belelieve that you are probably equally if not more likely to hurt the very person you were intending to help by posting publicly. Given the risks, I think PMs are a much better option.

Speaking of PM's they don't appear to be working.... I keep getting an 500 Internal Server Error....

Offline 50s

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #1276 on: October 14, 2011, 01:22:20 AM »
Speaking of PM's they don't appear to be working.... I keep getting an 500 Internal Server Error....

Sounds painfull

Online marklawd

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #1277 on: October 14, 2011, 06:06:55 AM »
I hope no one will out a rare poster I am interested in and if someone does that is just my bad luck. I don't blame anyone because this is a public forum with free speech but I will not contribute to any discussion on that poster mid-auction that might draw more interest to it. It can occasionally be to my advantage. Recently, some early high bidding was reported on a poster I planned to bid on. I had not seen it before prior to the auction and had not viewed the bidding. I correctly predicted that it was likely to go higher than I was prepared to pay and it encouraged me to locate the same poster elsewhere on the internet at a fraction of its eventual sale price.

If I come across a poster that I am not interested in (or because I already have it) but know that a specific individual is looking for it I will always pm them. They may have been an underbidder in an auction I won or have been brave enough to
make public a wants list. I didn't know anyone interested in the Gangs of New York posters and I decided to share the information I knew about the poster publicly. I had no idea of the fuss that would ensue and I am sorry that the posters were subsequently pulled.

Mark

Offline archie leach

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #1278 on: October 14, 2011, 08:59:00 AM »
Mark,

You mentioned that your Fight Club 'second waves' were slimmer, but do you recall the actual dimensions of each wave?

It was curious that the Bruce's Blood Stains & Rabies were one width (26 3/4) and Swollen & Feminine were another (26 1/2).  Do yours follow the same pattern?




As for posting auctions, the only time I'll post one while it is still ongoing is if there is a problem with the listing.  I notice that all of the wildings that I mentioned earlier were sold as 'original vintage theater-used'...

Online marklawd

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #1279 on: October 14, 2011, 09:28:26 AM »
I can't do it just yet but over the weekend I'll measure the Fight Club posters and start a separate thread showing the dimensions, for easy future reference.

Mark

Offline archie leach

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #1280 on: October 14, 2011, 05:55:26 PM »
Thanks.  We might want to copy over the discussion up to this point as well.  Even if we don't have a definitive answer, it would be good to have a repository of anecdotal information to build upon. 

Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #1281 on: October 15, 2011, 12:00:22 PM »

Once again, is it your right to 'out' whatever auction you want... but it is also my right to call you a reckless idiot who will eventually cost other collectors on this forum real money... apparently just so you can be provocative.

Harry, you have totally lost your cool and crossed the line of appropriate discussion here.  Really disappointing you have chosen to employ such vitriolic rhetoric.

Since it had three bidders and had crossed the $1,000 time in just three days of bidding, I made a good faith - and absolutely correct - estimation that the Irish Goldfinger quad was no longer a secret and was never going to sell for a bargain by Ebay standards. (And making a long argument short, we both know that valuable posters like the Clockwork Orange almost always sell for much less on Ebay than on the consignment auctions, especially the signature auctions and at Christies, so it's not proper to directly compare them.)

As it turns out, a***a - whoever s/he is - put in a multi-thousand $$$ bid on the Irish quad on October 11, the day before I mentioned it on APF.  How do I know?  Because on the same day s/he put a $3,500 bid on the companion sale of the From Russia With Love quad.  So if you want to bid for this, you - and any other bidder - had better pony up at least $4,500 to get it:

Goldfinger bids:



FRWL bids:

« Last Edit: October 15, 2011, 12:04:10 PM by Dread_Pirate_Mel »

Offline Harry Caul

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #1282 on: October 15, 2011, 02:48:51 PM »
Since it had three bidders and had crossed the $1,000 time in just three days of bidding, I made a good faith - and absolutely correct - estimation that the Irish Goldfinger quad was no longer a secret and was never going to sell for a bargain by Ebay standards.

Mel-
This is a perfect example of where all your arguments, 'facts' and useless screen-captures fall apart in reality.  You keep using absolutes to try to make your point when we all know absolutes don't exist in this hobby/market.  You say you decision was 'absolutely correct' when in fact you are pulling something out of your ass -- the only actual fact we know is that the poster is still at $1250.  Yes, based on past performance, there is a very high probability that this poster will cross the $4K mark (which I predicted before you repeated it).  However, no one here has any f'ing idea what it will do when all is said and done.  That is how we all find the random bargain/deal in the first place.  The chances that one of us finds a great deal is admittedly small, but it does exist.  What you are doing by 'outing' posters is diminishing those already few opportunities to buy a poster at a bargain.  You would be pissed if people did it to items you collect and that are in your price range -- probably correctly because more of us collect in lower price ranges and posting on the forum will likely increase competition (and hence the final price).  What I take the most issue with is that you continue to argue that after it leaves your comfort zone of price/interest, that it somehow becomes fair game.  Mel, I like you and I enjoy your presence here, but that doesn't preclude me from calling out reckless and inconsistent behavior in this particular area.  Whether you want to believe it or not, you are potentially playing fast and loose with other people's money... I'm really sorry I 'disappointed' you for calling you out on it after you continued (and still do) to defend it as absolutely harmless.


All-
As many of you here know... two years ago I scored a Breakfast at Tiffany's 1-sheet on eBay for $305 -- this is a $3K-$5K poster mind you.  It was accurately described (original poster, mounted to linen), but worded in such a way that made it sound like it was likely a bootleg.  Does anyone really think I would have got it for so little if it had been a topic of discussion here?  If nothing else it likely (see those simple, but important qualifiers Mel?) would have inspired others to contact that seller, revealing the poster's authenticity.

Just a head's up, if Mel continues to try to justify that once a poster has crossed a certain price threshold that it becomes fair game for early discussion, I'm not going to bother responding.  I think I've made my position about as clear as one could at this point.  As mentioned, I'm not in favor of censoring this thread... I'm simply asking people to be mindful of others before they post here.

Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #1283 on: October 15, 2011, 03:40:33 PM »
Harry.. while I hear you talking about things that save you money, there are two sides to the argument and whether you agree or not with your opposite's philosophy, what you are essentially saying is that speech is not freedom to say anything you want (within polite conversation)

I have only outed a couple or three auctions over time and just because my opinion varies from yours does not mean I should not be able to post about any auction at any time if I wish too.

I along with others, will not be muzzled just to potentially save someone some money.
you win, you lose. that's life man.

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Offline CSM

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #1284 on: October 15, 2011, 03:46:04 PM »
There is freedom of speech (and of posting) for sure but there is also respect for other collectors and forum members.  I side with Matt quite strongly.
Chris

Offline Zorba

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #1285 on: October 15, 2011, 03:46:32 PM »
As mentioned, I'm not in favor of censoring this thread... I'm simply asking people to be mindful of others before they post here.


 thumbup

 cheers


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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #1286 on: October 15, 2011, 03:57:15 PM »
There is freedom of speech (and of posting) for sure but there is also respect for other collectors and forum members.  I side with Matt quite strongly.

there is also respect for those that do not agree with you Chris.
personally, I do not see posting public information as onerous.
If someone wants to post everytime a Big Sleep poster comes up (I have almost nothing on this title and need all of it) - it does not and will not bother me and I don't see someone posting such an item as disrespectful or discourteous. It neither changes my attitude about winning or losing nor does it make me emotional after losing. If someone beats me in a fair contest, congrats to him/her.

also, I think it really gets down to a simple tenet: it is not my right to censor what someone else says about anything, although it may be my right to respond. similarly, no one has the right to censor what I say or request I censor what I'm going to say, as long as what I'm saying is not untrue or outside of acceptable behavior

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Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #1287 on: October 15, 2011, 04:06:08 PM »
by the way.. it seems to me that everyone against outing auctions is a collector looking to save money or have reduced competition

how do you think the sellers feel about it?
your wishing to muzzle the "outers" is anathema to the seller getting a better value.

there are two sides to all arguments on this issue

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Offline CSM

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #1288 on: October 15, 2011, 04:06:17 PM »
Rich, I do completely understand what you are saying.  

But I am not arguing for censorship.  I am arguing for respect - meaning perhaps someone who is going to post about a live auction should think twice or even thrice about just WHY they are posting about it in the first place.  I.e. what are their motives?  A lot of times, in my opinion, it comes across as a 'prestige post' - as in, "oh look at me and revel in how great I am that I can find this item on the internet - shower me with accolades".  The intentions just seem off especially when it is clear the forum poster has NO intention of bidding on the paper whatsoever!
Chris

Offline CSM

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #1289 on: October 15, 2011, 04:07:39 PM »
by the way.. it seems to me that everyone against outing auctions is a collector looking to save money or have reduced competition

how do you think the sellers feel about it?
your wishing to muzzle the "outers" is anathema to the seller getting a better value.

there are two sides to all arguments on this issue

If a seller cannot properly advertise (or even properly list) an item then they are clearly just lazy or ignorant and do not deserve to "a better value".
Chris

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #1290 on: October 15, 2011, 04:14:39 PM »
But I am not arguing for censorship.  I am arguing for respect -

what about respect for the opposing opinion Chris?
you want me to respect your belief, but clearly you aren't respecting mine.
where is the equality?

and yes, what you're arguing for is indeed censorship.
anytime you want someone to not say something because you disagree, you are indeed attempting to censor that person

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Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #1291 on: October 15, 2011, 04:16:01 PM »
If a seller cannot properly advertise (or even properly list) an item then they are clearly just lazy or ignorant and do not deserve to "a better value".

Chris, that is a complete and utter crock, unless you equate a lack of knowledge as ignorant or lazy.


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Offline brude

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #1292 on: October 15, 2011, 04:18:57 PM »
There is freedom of speech (and of posting) for sure but there is also respect for other collectors and forum members.  I side with Matt quite strongly.

I agree with Matt, also.
I don't see any purpose in outing an auction unless the person is posting it to alert others that they have ALREADY proven it bogus.
What I DO find interesting are the discussions FOLLOWING an auction's END.

This is NOT about censorship. This is about common courtesy for the fellow collector.
I've probably PM'd 50% of all APF members when I see something in their realm of collecting -- not just Ebay deals, but many, many to both Bruce and Rich.

Offline CSM

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #1293 on: October 15, 2011, 04:19:40 PM »
what about respect for the opposing opinion Chris?
you want me to respect your belief, but clearly you aren't respecting mine.
where is the equality?

and yes, what you're arguing for is indeed censorship.
anytime you want someone to not say something because you disagree, you are indeed attempting to censor that person

Rich, I don't care if you respect my beliefs or not - I am just stating them and that I agree with Matt's argument.  

But I AM respecting your beliefs Rich.  When did I tell you or anyone else to not post something or stop you or anyone else from posting something?  I have 0 censorship capabilities on this forum...
Chris

Offline CSM

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #1294 on: October 15, 2011, 04:22:53 PM »
Chris, that is a complete and utter crock, unless you equate a lack of knowledge as ignorant or lazy.



No it's not - it's quite valid and true in my opinion.  If someone has something to sell it is THEIR responsibility to do the leg work in determining what they have.  How hard is it to google something?  If they do not research their item before selling, they only have themselves to blame should they not get "full, perceived value" (whatever THAT is?).

And we have an entire section devoted to where sellers/dealer/traders can correctly advertise their items should they so choose.
Chris

Offline Harry Caul

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #1295 on: October 15, 2011, 04:30:26 PM »
what about respect for the opposing opinion Chris?

I do respect opposing opinions Rich... but an opposing opinion would be something like -- it is ok to 'out' all auctions early.  That is not what Mel is arguing.  He is saying it is ok to 'out' an auction early, but only after it has left his price range or area of interest.  I have issues with Mel being inconsistent in his position, not in the position itself.  

And one last time, I have never once called for censorship and I don't think this thread should be censored... I thought it would be clear by stating exactly that in every post I made, but apparently not.

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #1296 on: October 15, 2011, 04:54:06 PM »
I do respect opposing opinions Rich... but an opposing opinion would be something like -- it is ok to 'out' all auctions early.  That is not what Mel is arguing.  He is saying it is ok to 'out' an auction early, but only after it has left his price range or area of interest.  I have issues with Mel being inconsistent in his position, not in the position itself.  

And one last time, I have never once called for censorship and I don't think this thread should be censored... I thought it would be clear by stating exactly that in every post I made, but apparently not.

Yes.  I cannot understand the motivation behind 'outting' an auction when that someone has no intention of bidding on it - unless it comes back to my prestige post argument.

Rich, (I know you stated you don't care either way but know) if I saw something Chandler-esque come up that was clearly flying under the radar and I had no interest in it and thought you might I would use the simple art of the PM to notify you - out of respect and as a kind gesture from one collector another.  Would this also be censorship because I 'censored' it from everyone else?
Chris

Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #1297 on: October 15, 2011, 04:58:49 PM »
All:

At the end of this auction everybody is going to see that the first bidder on the Irish Goldfinger quad put a huge bid - probably at least $3,500 - on this poster. Furthermore, several other "fat wallet" collectors and dealers - most or all of whom have no idea this forum exists - are going to come out at the end and push the price well past $4,000.  All this talk about getting it for a steal or being "robbed" of the opportunity to get it for $1,500 was just a pipe dream.  James Bond posters always get lots of attention on Ebay and this particular seller is selling a boatload of James Bond posters, so this poster realistically was never going to "slip under the radar."

So whatever theoretical arguments - which have been endlessly rehashed here - against discussing pending auctions have no applicability to this particular poster.

By the way in the last four hours, another bidder has entered the arena and pushed the first bidder's bid up to $1,600.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2011, 04:59:55 PM by Dread_Pirate_Mel »

Offline kovacs01

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #1298 on: October 15, 2011, 05:14:40 PM »
All:

At the end of this auction everybody is going to see that the first bidder on the Irish Goldfinger quad put a huge bid - probably at least $3,500 - on this poster. Furthermore, several other "fat wallet" collectors and dealers - most or all of whom have no idea this forum exists - are going to come out at the end and push the price well past $4,000.  All this talk about getting it for a steal or being "robbed" of the opportunity to get it for $1,500 was just a pipe dream.  James Bond posters always get lots of attention on Ebay and this particular seller is selling a boatload of James Bond posters, so this poster realistically was never going to "slip under the radar."

So whatever theoretical arguments - which have been endlessly rehashed here - against discussing pending auctions have no applicability to this particular poster.

By the way in the last four hours, another bidder has entered the arena and pushed the first bidder's bid up to $1,600.

i think mel has a time machine.
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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #1299 on: October 15, 2011, 05:21:48 PM »
I do respect opposing opinions Rich... but an opposing opinion would be something like -- it is ok to 'out' all auctions early.  That is not what Mel is arguing.  He is saying it is ok to 'out' an auction early, but only after it has left his price range or area of interest.  I have issues with Mel being inconsistent in his position, not in the position itself.

I don't think it should be determined by any arbitrary dollar amount.. and yes, sometimes Mel's own statements do contradict previous statements he has made

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