Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....

[erik1925]

I found that the same "yanked" card was offered on another auction site, in May of 2015, from a seller in Latvia.

At that time, it was offered at a BIN price of 45 euros.

[BruceH]

On this remaining card: http://auctions.emovieposter.com/Bidding.taf?_function=detail&Auction_uid1=4161977

How is this autograph known to be Helm's, for certain? What is the provenance of this card (and the other signed examples) and can the autograph be said to be hers, 100%? (vs it having been written by someone who was merely copying her style).

Nothing is discussed in this regard, in the description.

Or is that left for the winning bidder to determine, after the fact?

The sig almost looks like it was written with a grease pencil or crayon.

I have no Certificate of Authenticity for this. On all signed items, buyers have 30 days from the end of the auction to do whatever "authenticating" they want to do, and they can return any signed item within that time.

I assume you know that there are tons of dishonest autograph dealers in the world, and that Certificates of Authenticity are often worthless. One is always gambling when buying a signed item, unless it has impeccable provenance, and when items do, they almost always sell for multiples of the price of similar signed items that don't have it.

[BruceH]

I found that the same "yanked" card was offered on another auction site, in May of 2015, from a seller in Latvia.

At that time, it was offered at a BIN price of 45 euros.

I will first email the consignor that I am sure it is not signed. He may want it back (if he insists it is real).

If not, it will be auctioned properly identified, and I imagine it might sell for $10 to $20, at most.

[YugoMoviePoster]

Good question, but when it comes to signature authencity it really looks that is left to bidders to determine is it real or not.

At Heritage, this complete set of 12 Postcards (sold for: $3,585.00) also had as extra one with the Helm's signature:
http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/science-fiction/metropolis-ufa-1927-german-postcard-set-of-12-andamp-autographed-postcard-35-x-55-total-13-items-/a/7078-83184.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

No provenance, or guarantee, whatsoever.

Now, I see that Bruce have 30 days rule, that is fair as can be.

[MoviePosterBid.com]

try to see how long it takes to get an authentication from an authentication service

this discussion appeared before. 30 days isn't nearly enough

http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,7288.0.html

[erik1925]

I have no Certificate of Authenticity for this. On all signed items, buyers have 30 days from the end of the auction to do whatever "authenticating" they want to do, and they can return any signed item within that time.

I assume you know that there are tons of dishonest autograph dealers in the world, and that Certificates of Authenticity are often worthless. One is always gambling when buying a signed item, unless it has impeccable provenance, and when items do, they almost always sell for multiples of the price of similar signed items that don't have it.

I never said nor was suggesting a Cert of Authenticity, as those are usually worthless.

I was more meaning that in your description, you state that the card was signed by Helm:

"Important Added Info: Note that this item has been personally autographed (signed) by Brigitte Helm!"

If you don't know this for certain, and have no way of verifying that, how can you state in the auction that it WAS actually signed by her?

And whys does it fall on the shoulders of the winning bidder to prove what they have purchased is genuine? That should be the responsibility of the seller/dealer/auctioneer.

And if questionable, is it not in everyone's best interest to just pull the auction altogether?

[BruceH]

Since you obviously do not like the way I run my signed auctions, you should not participate in them. But please do not tell me what to do.

There are many people who have told me that they find our signed auctions far superior to those of the others.

But that is what makes the world so great. Everyone is free to disagree.

[erik1925]

How is asking questions when it comes to the legitimacy of auctioned autographs and their validity, equated with not liking how you run your auctions?

There is no correlation.

The question simply related to details about signed pieces like the one above. And it wouldnt matter if it was emp or anyone else selling it.

The signature topic has been discussed before, how easily they can be forged and why provenance is considered an important factor, when anyone chooses to sell something that is signed, stating that the autograph is the "genuine article."

[50s]

Jeff, you are getting Bruce to discuss his business outside the dealer section. I don't think Bruce will answer unless the posts are relocated to that section

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Jeff, you are getting Bruce to discuss his business outside the dealer section. I don't think Bruce will answer unless the posts are relocated to that section

good sarcasm. a mid-auction item was discussed..

[BruceH]

Jeff, you are getting Bruce to discuss his business outside the dealer section. I don't think Bruce will answer unless the posts are relocated to that section

Plus this way, it allows for attacks from others. Pretty slick!

I used to wonder why only a tiny number of people post here and why so many left to start other forums. I am now starting to understand why that is.

[50s]

good sarcasm. a mid-auction item was discussed..

Yes but the discussion moved on to signed items in general, thus how Bruce runs his business. The forum post cutting shears need to come out now

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Yes but the discussion moved on to signed items in general, thus how Bruce runs his business. The forum post cutting shears need to come out now

oh bs.. it follows the same path as usual discussions.

 

[50s]

Yes but the discussion moved on to signed items in general, thus how Bruce runs his business. The forum post cutting shears need to come out now

I say all this with sarcasm as it all seems a bit silly

[MoviePosterBid.com]

it all seems a bit silly

what's silly about it Steve?

is it not informative when people point out mistakes with auctions throughout the internet?

certainly if it was some ebay sellers - like the guy who was offering the Cleopatra 1sh, or that guy Shutterisland - people would be chiming in about it, wouldn't they?

the autographs issue was discussed before and the same issue exists as it did then.

[50s]

^ what is silly? First thing is your response. I'm talking about conversations shifting that they then need to continue in another thread to avoid breaking forum rules

A dealer answering questions related to the question should be fine, but dealer self promotion not clearly related to the question is what is best in the dealer section

[MoviePosterBid.com]

A dealer answering questions related to the question should be fine, but dealer self promotion not clearly related to the question is what is best in the dealer section

of course that is correct. but when you turn the answer into self promotion - that is a no

I can answer questions without also saying "that's why at MoviePosterBid we always guarantee our sales for life" or "that's why our auctions are better than those other people's auctions"

I think that's the difference in what the rules do and do not allow

and it's why my posts in discussion NEVER contain self promo. I understand the rules, which I agree with, so I don't do it.

[mwright]

In other news, I'm really frickin' happy with what I got from the emovieposter site today.  Looking forward to sharing with you all.  Also that auction coming up from Heritage looks pretty big.  Don't know if I'll be able to pick anything up from it but some of the items are super cool. I've been really good with not spending too much over the past couple months.  The auctions have been very tempting, though...

[MoviePosterBid.com]

that auction coming up from Heritage looks pretty big. 

I had seen an image of an item a number of weeks back in a specific format and said to myself "Man, wouldn't I like to find THAT poster"

then when I looked at their auction last week, out of nowhere appeared the very poster that I wanted to find.

it was a head shaking moment.. Guess I'll be bidding!

[erik1925]

The HA auction sure has some wonderful poster goodness again, this time around. There is no doubt.

And such a great number of things that havent been seen before or that show up much less frequently.

Again, Grey has put a terrific looking selection together.

[erik1925]

Being a Lon Chaney fan, I have always thought this WC was a great looking piece for The Unknown:

http://auctions.emovieposter.com/Bidding.taf?_function=detail&Auction_uid1=4172779



This card has been auctioned 3 other times by EMP and 5 other times by HA:

http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/film_title/UNKNOWN%2520%2528%252727%2529/tag/xtype%253Awindow%2520card/archive.html

http://movieposters.ha.com/c/search-results.zx?N=54+790+231&chkNotSold=0&Ntk=SI_Titles&Nty=1&Ntt=%22the+unknown%22+1927+window+card&ic4=KeywordSearch-071515

What's interesting is that all the cards have the same information in the imprint area same start date, theater and city. Even ones that have appeared on the bay over the years have this same info.

Quite a number must have been found that originated in this town. And most are in generally good condition, too. 

[BruceH]

Being a Lon Chaney fan, I have always thought this WC was a great looking piece for The Unknown:

http://auctions.emovieposter.com/Bidding.taf?_function=detail&Auction_uid1=4172779



This card has been auctioned 3 other times by EMP and 5 other times by HA:

http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/film_title/UNKNOWN%2520%2528%252727%2529/tag/xtype%253Awindow%2520card/archive.html

http://movieposters.ha.com/c/search-results.zx?N=54+790+231&chkNotSold=0&Ntk=SI_Titles&Nty=1&Ntt=%22the+unknown%22+1927+window+card&ic4=KeywordSearch-071515

What's interesting is that all the cards have the same information in the imprint area same start date, theater and city. Even ones that have appeared on the bay over the years have this same info.

Quite a number must have been found that originated in this town. And most are in generally good condition, too. 

There WAS a large find of these made. I have three more of these to auction, but those are in much lesser condition. I am sure there are no more after this last one, which is in great unrestored condition, (and the three damaged ones). I bet this one does well, because it is so nice.

If there were not so many of them, I think it would be at least a $3,000 to $5,000 card.

[erik1925]

Do you find it interesting that after all these years that none stamped with another location or dates has ever shown up?

And (as a side note, but related), I think this style is just the bomb.  Is this one that you also auctioned? I see it is only shown in your auction image archive without any other info about its sale, date etc. Have you come across one since then?

[110x75]

I really need to get some "The Unknown" paper. Might be one of those lesser cards you'll auction in the future, unless I find the argentinean one sheet before...

[erik1925]

Wow.. this is a beauty.   

http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/drama/dark-victory-warner-brothers-1939-title-lobby-card-11-x-14-/a/7125-86015.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515