Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....

[eatbrie]

Ben, I can't remember now, did I trade one of my Phantom's to you?  I know I traded a variant and a reg., but I can't remember to whom.  I got my Leon print for one of them... that's all I know.

T

[eatbrie]

Who's to say or prove that 10, 20 or 25 aren't held back by the printers waiting to be unleashed once they get into $3,500 territory? 

Don't know, don't care, and if someone does, more power to them.  I get my prints at the initial price and value means nitchs to me.

T

[Charlie]

Two Mondos make a right? http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=665&lotNo=28512

Oh a print run remaining of maybe 10 if I am liberal with it...  

[Charlie]

3.5 Mondos make awesome?

http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=667&lotNo=29189

[Charlie]

The Print Run makes fucking awesome?  Mondo, what a joke...

http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=695&lotNo=85729

[CSM]

Don't know, don't care, and if someone does, more power to them.  I get my prints at the initial price and value means nitchs to me.

T

So when you trade these Thierry you don't take "monetary value" into account in any way?

[Charlie]

Don't know, don't care, and if someone does, more power to them.  I get my prints at the initial price and value means nitchs to me.

T

Liar!  You wouldn't track the value if you didn't care...  Plus it's nice to see your stuff appreciate even if you won't sell it...

[eatbrie]

So when you trade these Thierry you don't take "monetary value" into account in any way?

No, not really.  I mean, I traded a Phantom for a Leon print.  The Phantom was worth much more money, but I really wanted that Leon print and I didn't know how to get it, so the Leon print was worth more to me.  Plus, I only paid $60 for my 2 Phantoms reg and $100 for my 2 variants, so it was a win-win.  I don't regret the transaction at all.

T

[Charlie]

Dammit! There is something on Heritage I am going to have to bid on...  

It is this belief in a power larger than myself and other than myself, which allows me to venture into the unknown and even the unknowable.

30 day shipping here we go - fcuk!  Bruce go rob them corporate bastards and list it for me...

[wonka]

But you do get that their desirability is artificially produced right?  And how is one to know all 100 of the print run were actually sold to the public?

Who's to say or prove that 10, 20 or 25 aren't held back by the printers waiting to be unleashed once they get into $3,500 territory? 

It's a suckers game that can be manipulated in so many ways (of course in my opinion)...

Chris, again, you are just really off base.
Go on EB and tell those guys that the Mondo (heck all the pop culture prints and art prints) desirability is artificially produced. They would laugh you out of town...it is really astonishing, to suppose this.

Thierry, you traded yours to Fallen/David, not me.
BTW, Fallen is asking 4k for his other Phantom. You guys can mock him too...but one day he will probably get it, if not more as Dale pointed out.

Charlie...not even sure what to say to you. Use a mask when handling your chemicals..? I don't know..

[eatbrie]

Liar!  You wouldn't track the value if you didn't care...  Plus it's nice to see your stuff appreciate even if you won't sell it...

I really don't know how to answer this without sounding like a spoiled brat, but I can honestly tell you, Charlie, that I don't care about the value of my prints or my posters.  Neither does Holiday or other collectors I know.  It is just a hobby, nothing else, nothing more.  I'm a completist at heart, I have always been, and this is what collecting is to me.  Owning everything about an actor or a director I respect is where the fun is.  Not the monetary value of a stupid print.  Of course, it's fun to see something you spent $40 on sell for $3,000 a few years later, but just for a minute.  If you want to make money, posters are really NOT the way to go.

T

[Charlie]

Charlie...not even sure what to say to you. Use a mask when handling your chemicals..? I don't know..

How about: 'very insightful - to think that two re-imagined Phantom prints in the modern era would ever be worth an original 1925 window card'... 'Imagine the idiocracy that if 3 idiots paid that price for three of the variants they could have an original 1925 insert'  man if them dumb bastards only knew that them beanie baby prints they are sitting on could be sold to buy originals - wow... 

[wonka]

How about: 'very insightful - to think that two re-imagined Phantom prints in the modern era would ever be worth an original 1925 window card'... 'Imagine the idiocracy that if 3 idiots paid that price for three of the variants they could have an original 1925 insert'  man if them dumb bastards only knew that them beanie baby prints they are sitting on could be sold to buy originals - wow... 

You're assuming people like what you, and most folks here, like. People pay money for things every day I will never understand, but to each his own.
Isn't that crazy?

[eatbrie]

You're assuming people like what you, and most folks here, like. People pay money for things every day I will never understand, but to each his own.
Isn't that crazy?

Well put.  And I don't see the parallel here.  Just because someone likes the design of Ansin's Phantom doesn't mean they care about 1) the movie and 2) posters from the movie.  It is really 2 different things.

T

[CSM]

Chris, again, you are just really off base.
Go on EB and tell those guys that the Mondo (heck all the pop culture prints and art prints) desirability is artificially produced. They would laugh you out of town...it is really astonishing, to suppose this.

With all due respect Ben I don't give two shits what people think on EB.  Are they some sort of all knowing, all determining committee?  Do they consider themselves the keepers of the Mondo/pop art print catalogue raisonne?  If so, that's quite a sad claim to fame.

They can laugh all they want - they are the suckers not me (in my opinion).  But I have to ask - why do you hold them and their opinions in such high esteem?

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Ben, at the same time you think Chris & Charlie (and me, because I'm in the same camp) are offbase believing Mondos could nosedive, you are equally offbase thinking they cannot. The facts are that the top of any market is ruled by a small few people. When even one of them stops buying (for whatever reason from loss of interest to divorce to death etc) it has a negative effect on that market. There is also something called "a correction". We saw a "correction" most recently in the housing market, but it is hardly the only place

Last year a Dracula 1sh sold for half of the previous sale. Since a 1sh for This Gun For Hire sold at 50k, numerous copies have been unable to break 25k (and even 20k). Universal horror posters - the Crown Jewel of the hobby for most people - are not automatic sellers anymore and especially not for the prices they sold back in 2006-2008.

Time will tell, but my money (if we were gambling) would be against Mondos maintaining a long term market without price corrections and if the collectors and dealers resist correcting prices in an attempt to try to maintain value in a  falling investment , it will only be an additional drag on that market when that time comes.

[wonka]

With all due respect Ben I don't give two shits what people think on EB.  Are they some sort of all knowing, all determining committee?  Do they consider themselves the keepers of the Mondo/pop art print catalogue raisonne?  If so, that's quite a sad claim to fame.

They can laugh all they want - they are the suckers not me (in my opinion).  But I have to ask - why do you hold them and their opinions in such high esteem?

Chris, I didn't phrase my argument correctly then. EB, APF, the Sailboat forum...its all internet groupthink, and none of it matters to be sure.

My point, to be made clearer now hopefully, is that those guys are the ones who are really into that niche market of collecting, so they know more about this than you do. It would be like if those guys went off about daybills in a manner they had no idea what the heck they were talking about. Folks like you would (perhaps) step in, and wonder aloud what they were even basing their argument on.

What I don't understand is why you, and others, constantly sneer at Mondo stuff, yet it keeps selling out, drop after drop (including bad ones) and values of certain pieces keep going up and up. So there is a demand for it, and people want it. What does it matter, and why is that so offensive?
Seriously?

[wonka]

Rich, your post is a good one and well taken. I see what you are saying, and do not necessarily disagree.

I am not saying Mondo stuff will nosedive or necessarily keep going up. It may, or it may not, just like posters you guys revere.

What I am saying is that there is an undeniable demand on some Mondo prints, which sales and prices realized.
I don't understand the venom and animosity some of you have towards this stuff.

Also, I think comparing the US housing market to movie paper is a stretch to say the least.

Lastly, I think many screen prints such as Mondo have some sort of a glass ceiling.
I think the average 30 something child of the 80s freaking out about the latest Olly Moss print will splurge on said print because it is attainable, despite being a financial stretch for them at say $500. However, that price is almost beneath the high brow movie poster community...the buyers with big pockets.

In other words, I personally expect some prints to hover around what is expensive for the average collector yet not really catch the eye of the D. Cleveland's of the world...so a Tyler Stout Big Trouble in Little China may or may not sit in the $1,500-$2k purgatory for some time.

[CSM]

What I don't understand is why you, and others, constantly sneer at Mondo stuff, yet it keeps selling out, drop after drop (including bad ones) and values of certain pieces keep going up and up. So there is a demand for it, and people want it. What does it matter, and why is that so offensive?
Seriously?

It's all personal opinion.  People deride daybills, Aussie posters in general and Belgians all the time but I don't get my back up.  I don't care what others think about what I like - which is essentially what you are saying about yourself and the Mondos/art prints (and I respect that).

But I will also speak my mind.  As I have said, my major problem with them is that, to me, they are artificial.  Their apparent scarcity, the various variants, the 'limited' print runs are all done to market them.  There is nothing inherently genuine about them - they are produced to be sold in a frenzy and their initial creation and distribution is controlled by an single entity that just HAS to know their "current market value".  Is it really so wrong to even question integrity when they sell a print for $100 but then see those selling for $3,500 later on?  You think there is no temptation to cash in?  It's only human and anything human should be full of suspicion...

Due to this - I feel there are many, many opportunities for their releases, claimed print runs and future sales (in a sense the market) to be manipulated in nefarious ways by the creators/printers or their close neighbour next door.  It does not take a great deal of imagination to come up with possibilities and I question it very strongly...  

[Louie D.]

The Mondo's will go the way of the 90's "concert" posters.

[MoviePosterBid.com]

okay Ben, now that you agree with what I said, add one more factor that I pointedly did not add to my previous post:

unlike the general poster market, Mondos have an additional aspect of a manipulated market and they are manipulated right from the source. Food for your thought

to comment as an aside.. posters business and housing business not comparable?
business is business when examined strictly at the monetary level.
I was predicting the Vegas housing market would correct (I didn't predict a complete crash though) as early as 2001/2002. Prices here were increasing exponentially and as a businessman, and from historical experience in business, living through numerous boom and bust cycles, I had no problem examining it. All things of a monetary points scale, that are not commodities staples, are subject to extreme price collapse.

[mcnail]

So ridiculous.  We go on and on debating how many copies exist of certain posters...

Now tell me how confident are you mondo collectors that there are REALLY only 100 of these?  Why have so much faith in an item that was purposely made as a 'limited collectors item'?

Hi, I don't know if we've spoken before. I'm Mitch, I'm one of the creative directors at Mondo.
In the end, it comes down to trust. The 'poster collecting community' is a very small one. At most, a few thousand hardcore people care about this stuff on a daily basis. We are also a small company, with around ten employees total. We're not out to screw customers over, or take advantage of rising aftermarket prices. In fact, the highest-selling posters (ie The Thing, Phantom, Olly Star Wars, etc) really happened because we, as a creative team, vastly underestimated the demand on them. We didn't make 100 Phantom of the Opera posters because we wanted them to be worth money in three years. We did it because, at that time, and working with a brand new artist, that's how many we thought we could sell. The number seemed appropriate. We printed fairly low on Olly's Star Wars posters for the same reason (it's hard to remember that Olly wasn't quite THAT huge yet). We don't reprint, we know our printer personally, and we have a team of very trustworthy artists and employees. I'm not saying that you have to love us or our posters, but after years of doing this honestly, please don't cast distrust on us unless we've done something to deserve it.
Cheers.

[CSM]

Thanks for your insight McNail.

Can I ask why print runs are still kept artificially low when you know there is a greater market for new releases (as witnessed by the post sale collector market results)?

[mcnail]

Thanks for your insight McNail.

Can I ask why print runs are still kept artificially low when you know there is a greater market for new releases (as witnessed by the post sale collector market results)?

We determine editions on a poster-by-poster basis. We want our releases to be collectable, but the goal is never legions of frustrated customers (in some cases where we could probably print a few thousand, we keep the editions relatively low at the artist's or studio's request). We also don't want to produce a poster that is over-printed and that nobody wants. So every release involves some serious huddling over numbers. We can't predict the future though, so we've certainly under-printed and over-printed a number of times. It's a tough thing to figure, and you can probably see that similar companies have similar problems (either underestimating demand or, even more common (and more damaging), printing way too many). We just use our best judgement. Cheers.

[eatbrie]

People deride daybills, Aussie posters in general and Belgians all the time but I don't get my back up.

I DO!!!