The History of the Hobby

[guest4955]

Helpful MOPO discussion:

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[MOPO] Nerdiest question ever....
MoviePoster Collectors Sun, 18 Feb 2018 13:13:43 -0800

Not sure why this percolated into my brain, but did the NSS Exchanges
systematically purge old posters (i.e.10+ years old) so that by the time
they shut down in the mid-80s they just didn't have older posters that were
not - or could not - have been rescued?

I heard an interview explaining that a Canadian exchange one day just
tossed out its older posters. I also read that somebody visited the Atlanta
(or Miami) exchange and it didn't have any older posters when it shut down.

If the surviving 1945-75 posters didn't originate one way or another from
the exchanges, where the he[ck] did they come from?

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Todd Sun, 18 Feb 2018 13:31:56 -0800

Not a nerdy question at all.

I can't speak for all of the NSS Exchanges but when I had my connection with
NSS in the mid to late 1970 and early 1980's, my connection was still able to
get posters going back to the 1930's.


No Casablanca's or Frankenstein's or other possibe Classic titles, but
definitely posters going all the way back to the 1930's.

Todd

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Jeff Potokar Sun, 18 Feb 2018 13:41:45 -0800

Todd,

Did the NSS exchanges or regional locations have actual printing plants on the
premises? Or was the physical printing of the posters done offsite and then
sent back to the exchanges, where they were then distributed from?

Thanks,

Jeff

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Todd Sun, 18 Feb 2018 13:46:04 -0800

Jeff,

>From what I understood, some of the larger NSS Exchanges had printing
>facilities and distributed the posters to the other exchanges.


Todd

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Jeff Potokar Sun, 18 Feb 2018 13:48:50 -0800

Thanks, Todd.

Talk about a total, in-house operation!

Jeff

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Cory Glaberson Sun, 18 Feb 2018 14:52:18 -0800

My understanding was that when they closed all the
Exchanges and ran the company out of Kansas City they
Ordered everything earlier than 1953 destroyed.
The rest of the posters were shipped back to KC.
Of course a lot of the exchange owners that were now out of
A job just kept the paper instead of dumping it.

Sent from my iPhone

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Thanks for all the great responses!

The reason I focused on 45-75 MPs is because most of the preWW2 stock was
presumably destroyed in the paper drives.

Sent from my iPad

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MoviePoster Collectors Sun, 18 Feb 2018 13:49:06 -0800

Thanks for info but I wonder why they weren’t purging old posters? Yep, I know
they re-released movies once or twice 5-10 years later but they usually printed
new posters. So they presumably had stacks of ancient posters that were never
going to be used...

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Todd Sun, 18 Feb 2018 14:05:57 -0800

Many of them did purge, not only old posters but also 35mm coming attraction
trailers which, depending on the title, can be worth quite a bit today.


It would break any collector's heart to know of all the great material that was
just tossed out as garbage!!


Some facilities were more secure than others.  I know the one in Paramus, New
Jersey was extremely secure.  Others were less secure, like the one in Kansas
City, MO as I know of at least one collector there who was dumpster diving at
that facility.


Todd

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Helmut Hamm Mon, 19 Feb 2018 02:26:36 -0800

Why would they? It would have been extra work, and as long as there‘s enough storage space, why bother?
 
Throughout the 60s and early 70s, things changed dramatically for the movie industry. With the growing influence of television, many cinemas had to shut down.
 
I figure it was part of that change that the NSS facilities started to clear their warehouses. In Germany, distribution was done by the individual corporations, but things went the same way: During the 70s and 80s pretty much all of them cleared their inventories of old paper stock. Some was saved by collectors, but the vast majority was discarded.
 
It‘s still happening today: I recently stumbled over newspaper article on the web that described how the entire inventory of a Progress Film warehouse had already been delivered to a paper mill, where a guy from the local university discovered and saved it. They are now planning to file it, like a million pieces or what.
 
Progress Film was the exclusively distributor for socialist East-Germany, and the collection was said to contains material from early 1950s until 1990.

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Tom Martin Mon, 19 Feb 2018 12:42:07 -0800

the stone lithos where pinted onslabs of bavaian rock sheets so whenthey ground them tomake a new matrix it wore ofthat priorart,

the posters then were many like otis, tooker,, morgan many where inOHIO...
and one was left in cinci doing circus posters...

I stated in 1977 so i only know that NSS was the placeto go or direct to film companys..andthenth theater exchange like Bill Luton at theater poster exchenge..in tenn,,, and a few others... they seemed to be shared at cinevent and the showws liekRay courts and milqueen..in pllaces like east coast and west costs wheni started guys likeJeryOhlinger..and others that advertsed in Big reel and movie collectors worl,and classic images...

in the80s i had a part time gigas a wildposter for detroit..we would need to put theposters onold buildings or burned out etc for trafdficto see ..we would put liketwo roows of five onthe buildings..yousee them inmosy citys....they wanted us to use wheat paste glue but inthe winter in detroit it was not practical..so I used a hammer tacker staple gun..i got paid 1500.00 todo 10 visula locations..and got so many extra posters i could sell ortrade to otherdealers,,i did iron eagle and many norris films..and mostly cannon,tri start, andothers intathat ...like braddock..i would geta few really good one...i also did pine knob music concerts and i did CBS records as i did these huge true blue album for Madonna...theh company inLa i worked forwas supposed to be part owns by BOB Dylan...

the 80s prnters weher all over thepplace but many in ohio at contenental litho,clevland...and also gotham , on east coast and many on west cost...so ii think at the time they used plates vs digital printing and that explains the press runs could vary as thy sent the art all over..


the posters were shipped in tubes of 50...200 flats, and 400 triangle tubes..

I know as i moved many ofthem and pulled chest muscles onthem..

the 50 tubes are a no brainer ...but the flats where nuts,,as i would stack them up to 5 foot high..and wheni started getting video one sheets in 90s they used theaterical many times liekcontact and many wb titles... so whenthey all went 27x48 vs..the 227x41 they all became the same....


earlysmall videos where small and had type and ads and looked unattractive,,butsoon they looked as god as theatrical and a fe times better...

when NSS started closing down many were able to getstoclk by paying offhe dump orworkers and so they got them as wellas many industry peoplesold themout theback door or some studios sent some..andmany theater owners helped get them avainlible...

its been a industry wide normal thing to give away posters as the licensingwas never inplaceto sell them...as then the artist,actors directors etc would all geta residual...

s thats why itwas geeky collectors andtheater owners and industry peple tat started saving them as many people used them forattic insulation,floor shims..wall insulation ebbecause they weher free.. for the pickens...

ther still seems liekhodes of titles out there thatsimple dont sell...
so its curious as to when they will ripen...even with mass storage,,it coss money..my warehouse which was cheep was 250 a month or approx 3k a year do that 10 years thats 30k...i decided to sell them off the videos that is..100,000 13 pallets 5 foot tall each..thats was a lot of posters...
I hope i saved someclose encounters as itwas a cool poster..

but whats funny is the posters seem to be floatingaround the usa still of many titles...andifthere is no interest well then we are at mercy ofthebuyers..unless you have cheap rent ora huge warehouse...andcan liveto your 90....lol:) so far i dnt see any guys with posters leaving witha U haul behind thier car...so i hope i can sell this stuff before i croak or myson will sell it inthefuture

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Susan Heim Sun, 18 Feb 2018 13:52:06 -0800

I know two large companies in particular that bought huge amounts of paper from
a couple of different NSS location when they began to go out of business in the
1970's and 1980's.  One in particular told me that they attended an event at a
NSS facility back east and there were pallets of paper stack everywhere and it
was sold for like 25 cents a pound and you would just buy the pallet of paper. 
He bought paper that looked the oldest.  He bought enough paper that, a few
years back when I was at their facility, they have a large storage container,
like the kind you see on freight ships, filled wall to wall with paper.  I know
in particular there was a lot of old stuff because he has the good stuff.  I
know he sold the original half sheet for Bride of Frankenstein to Ron Borst
back in the 1970's.


So, I know there were many companies that were a part of this "clearance" of
paper at the various NSS facilities.  So, I'm sure this is one outlet that old
movie posters are still coming from, that "clearance" stock....


Sue

Hollywood Poster Frames

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Phillip Ayling Sun, 18 Feb 2018 14:34:10 -0800

"If the surviving 1945-75 posters didn't originate one way or another from
the exchanges, where the he[ck] did they come from"

 

It's important to note that there were numerous private poster services in
the US and Canada; some as early as the late 1920's.

 

NSS didn't get into the 'poster' business until the late 1930's and they
didn't handle posters for all the different studios as a virtual monopoly
until several years after World War II. Among the last studios to come
aboard were Columbia and Republic. Even then, NSS continued to sell to the
private exchanges for about 15 more years until freezing them out
completely.

 

Many pre- 1965 posters that are now in collections came by way of these
private poster services. In 1960, when I was 10, I dealt with 4 different
poster services just in Oklahoma City alone.

 

The stock in these exchanges (excluding materials made by the "Other
Company" or other non-studio printers) was generally acquired by an exchange
in four different ways:

A.      From the studios themselves; or the Litho Companies that had been
authorized to sell to exchanges on behalf of a given studio.

B.      From movie theatres who had purchased materials officially from a
studio to cover a release and now no longer needed them.

C.      From the merger or acquisition of another exchange.

D.     From NSS as they gradually became dominant and then a monopoly.

 

[guest4955]

1960s (undated?) live again! Here are Forrest Ackerman (left, sci-fi writer) and Robert Bloch (right, author of "Psycho") holding two different 1925 POTO one sheet (27"x41") movie posters. (The child is the grandson of Boris Karloff.) Both posters - each worth $200K+ now - belong(ed) to film historian, director and instructor, David Bradley.

[eatbrie]

Cool picture, Mel.

T

[guest4955]

Cool picture, Mel.

T

Yeah but Rich found it, I just promoted on social media.

[erik1925]

Rich's original thread, from back in Jan:

http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,12703.0.html

[guest4955]

Video interview Morris Everett Jr, who administers Cinevent:

http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,12124.msg221179.html#msg221179



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As posted on MOPO, here is a new lengthy interview with legendary collector/dealer Ron Borst:

http://www.newsandmoviesradio.com/podcast/5-9-2016-interview-news-movies-radio-interview-collector-ron-borst-of-hollywood-movie-posters-located-in-hollywood-california-talks-about-collecting-horror-fantasy-and-science-fiction-movie-memorabilia-over-the-years-and-his-book-graven-images

Borst is the author of Graven Images:

[guest4955]

The LC that reveals the morbid demise at the end, removed from most distributed LC sets and extremely rare, somebody on NS4 said he had been looking for it forever:

[guest4955]

Buried in a recent EMP bulletin:


Did you know that large theaters in big cities in the 1920s and 1930s almost never used the studio issued posters on their theater fronts (or in their lobbies)?

When I (Bruce) purchased my first movie posters and lobby cards WAY back in 1969 (from Tannar Miles, a legendary early Texas dealer of movie memorabilia, who is still alive and well!), I naturally assumed that those movie posters and lobby cards could have been displayed in ANY movie theater in the U.S., since it seemed only logical that they all used the same posters (after all, why set up a huge nationwide distribution system if all the theaters didn't use it?).
Of course, once I started to think about it, I remembered that the two movie theaters in my home town of Great Neck, New York only seemed to display one-sheets when I went there from the late 1950s through the early 1970s, but that might have only meant that some theaters only used some of the posters available, but that they all worked with the same group of posters made by the nationwide poster exchanges.

It wasn't until the very early 1980s, when I started collecting "exhibitor magazines" (special magazines only sent to theater owners) that I began to realize this just wasn't true! The leading exhibitor magazine was MOVING PICTURE WORLD and  almost every issue from the late 1910s to the early 1930s (at least) has a great section called "Selling the Picture to the Public", which shows lots of images of theater fronts and theater lobbies (almost all from big theaters in big cities), and I quickly saw that they all only had displays they made themselves!

Now in some cases those home made displays incorporated studio issued posters into those displays, but usually they were mostly cut up and used in pieces. And LOTS of those home made displays were INCREDIBLY elaborate! For example, when it was a jungle picture, they might have lots of real plants and vines all over to create a 3D faux jungle, and they also made "deserts", "tropical islands", "jail cells", etc.

And they would often have mannequins incorporated in their displays, and sometimes the outdoor displays would be positively MASSIVE, sometimes covering the entire side of a multi-story building! But let me stress that I only saw this on good sized theaters, usually in big cities. When I would see images of smaller theaters (or ones that did not show movies on their first run), then those WOULD almost always have the studio issued posters and lobby cards on display.

What likely accounted for this? I have been lucky enough to have had several consignors who ran movie theaters in the 1940s, and they told me that labor (and materials) was incredibly cheap in the 1930s (especially during the Great Depression), and that movie theaters were very profitable at that time (just about everyone went to theaters almost every day, in those pre-TV days, especially because most theaters were air conditioned and most homes were not!).

So a theater owner could well afford the extra expense of really going the extra mile to make their theater front look super cool, and there was lots of reason to do so, since there was usually other theaters within a few block in a big city, and that great advertising might make people choose your theater over another one.

In the past few months we were lucky enough to have auctioned hundreds of candid photos of theater fronts and theater lobbies from the late 1930s and early 1940s. These came from an amazing scrapbook that was discovered, and sadly they are just about all sold now. But you can see these candid theater front photos (and a few others we had previously auctioned) by going to http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/search/theater%2520front/tag/xtype%253A8x10%2520still/archive.html

And if anyone reading this has ANY candid photos showing theater fronts or theater lobbies, we would love to auction them (and as you can see from the above link, some have auctioned for over $100 each!). Go HERE to learn about consigning.

[eatbrie]

Yeah but Rich found it, I just promoted on social media.

Oh yeah, I vaguely remember something about it.

T

[cabmangray]

I can only tell you from my own personal experience that when NSS cleared out of their Camden NJ warehouse and moved to Englewood, NJ in the mid 1980's, they would keep a backlog of posters from only the previous 3 years. Anything older was trashed yearly. Sometime in the first 3 months of the year large, construction site dumpsters would appear and slowly be filled with boxes and boxes of unused trailers, ad slicks, all kinds of promo items, and finally 1-sheets. They would just toss everything in, except Disney animated 1-sheets; they didn't care anything about the live action films. When SNOW WHITE was reissued in the mid 90's, I came across about 15 rolls of 1-sheets that were taken half way out of their boxes and torn in half, insuring they would never fall into the wrong hands. Right before NSS was bought by Technicolor the only films they had were the independent's like Miramax, Lions Gate, etc.

When I first started collecting in the mid 70's, I was lucky enough to make a connection with a old time collector who had posters from the mid 40's right up to the newest releases and had just so much material that it made my head spin. He told me he acquired it all by bribing the security guards who kept an eye on it all. Once I wanted to get any 6-sheet I could get on a Bogart film; he had mint, unused and never opened copies for THE ENFORCER, BATTLE CIRCUS, and DARK PASSAGE that he had acquired back in the day. He had boxes and boxes of posters, piled up 4 or 5 boxes high. Lord, I miss the old days!

[erik1925]

I can only tell you from my own personal experience that when NSS cleared out of their Camden NJ warehouse and moved to Englewood, NJ in the mid 1980's, they would keep a backlog of posters from only the previous 3 years. Anything older was trashed yearly. Sometime in the first 3 months of the year large, construction site dumpsters would appear and slowly be filled with boxes and boxes of unused trailers, ad slicks, all kinds of promo items, and finally 1-sheets. They would just toss everything in, except Disney animated 1-sheets; they didn't care anything about the live action films. When SNOW WHITE was reissued in the mid 90's, I came across about 15 rolls of 1-sheets that were taken half way out of their boxes and torn in half, insuring they would never fall into the wrong hands. Right before NSS was bought by Technicolor the only films they had were the independent's like Miramax, Lions Gate, etc.

When I first started collecting in the mid 70's, I was lucky enough to make a connection with a old time collector who had posters from the mid 40's right up to the newest releases and had just so much material that it made my head spin. He told me he acquired it all by bribing the security guards who kept an eye on it all. Once I wanted to get any 6-sheet I could get on a Bogart film; he had mint, unused and never opened copies for THE ENFORCER, BATTLE CIRCUS, and DARK PASSAGE that he had acquired back in the day. He had boxes and boxes of posters, piled up 4 or 5 boxes high. Lord, I miss the old days!

Great story, cabman! To think they actually partially tore those OS just to make sure they were damaged.

Amazing.

Let alone reading how boxes and rolls of material were all just tossed in the trash. And then multiply this scenario by the number of NSS facilities that probably did the same thing. All that poster goodness now in landfills. 

 

[cabmangray]

I know for a fact that when NSS was still in Paramus NJ, area collectors were just starting to catch on that the dumpster diving there was good, which NSS eventually got wind of. Then then gave ALL the posters tossed out either the drill press or band saw treatment. They spared NOTHING, not even pressbooks. Let me tell you, what I saw blowing around loose on their front lawn was a painful sight to see!

[erik1925]

I know for a fact that when NSS was still in Paramus NJ, area collectors were just starting to catch on that the dumpster diving there was good, which NSS eventually got wind of. Then then gave ALL the posters tossed out either the drill press or band saw treatment. They spared NOTHING, not even pressbooks. Let me tell you, what I saw blowing around loose on their front lawn was a painful sight to see!

Just reading this recollection alone is painful. 

[guest4955]

I know for a fact that when NSS was still in Paramus NJ, area collectors were just starting to catch on that the dumpster diving there was good, which NSS eventually got wind of. Then then gave ALL the posters tossed out either the drill press or band saw treatment. They spared NOTHING, not even pressbooks. Let me tell you, what I saw blowing around loose on their front lawn was a painful sight to see!

Well, you will disagree but 90% of MPs are and were "generic/forgettable/disposable" advertising! Too bad they made no effort to preserve the better/best.

The Theater Poster Exchange in Memphis never closed and has been selling its old stock for years:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/weln/m.html?_nkw&_armrs=1&_ipg&_from&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684







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These did sell but most IMO are wrapping paper!

[cabmangray]

I still have some of Bill Luton's old catalogs. The depth of his stock back then was amazing. He was among the first, along with R. Neil Reynolds, to have mail order auctions several times a year. Some nice bargains could be had too. They both stopped their mail auctions about the same time, which was right at the advent on eBay.

Another old timer from the 1980's was Eben Rodgers Poster Emporium in Kansas City. His catalogs were organized by year and release number; basically his stock was organized by using the NSS code system. He did have some 1-sheets but he was loaded with inserts and 22x28's. Most of the really good stuff was gone by then but you could still get  rolled, absolutely mint 22x28's and inserts to films like KISS ME DEADLY, UTOPIA, FRANKENSTEIN'S DAUGHTER, LOVING YOU, at extremely fair prices.

[okiehawker]

I still have some of Bill Luton's old catalogs. The depth of his stock back then was amazing. He was among the first, along with R. Neil Reynolds, to have mail order auctions several times a year. Some nice bargains could be had too. They both stopped their mail auctions about the same time, which was right at the advent on eBay.

Another old timer from the 1980's was Eben Rodgers Poster Emporium in Kansas City. His catalogs were organized by year and release number; basically his stock was organized by using the NSS code system. He did have some 1-sheets but he was loaded with inserts and 22x28's. Most of the really good stuff was gone by then but you could still get  rolled, absolutely mint 22x28's and inserts to films like KISS ME DEADLY, UTOPIA, FRANKENSTEIN'S DAUGHTER, LOVING YOU, at extremely fair prices.

Ah, I remember R. Neil Reynolds' sales as well, Cabman!  He used to have a shop in Alexandria, Virginia.  Good memories!  Okie

[guest4955]

As mentioned, the Theater Poster Exchange in Memphis, Tennessee has been selling its remaining stock on Ebay ("wein" on US Ebay) for years and today I got an unused "Tiger Woman" (1945 US 1S) from it!

[guest4955]

[guest4955]

Another old timer from the 1980's was Eben Rodgers Poster Emporium in Kansas City. His catalogs were organized by year and release number; basically his stock was organized by using the NSS code system. He did have some 1-sheets but he was loaded with inserts and 22x28's. Most of the really good stuff was gone by then but you could still get  rolled, absolutely mint 22x28's and inserts to films like KISS ME DEADLY, UTOPIA, FRANKENSTEIN'S DAUGHTER, LOVING YOU, at extremely fair prices.

Rebooted info:

http://www.posterguide.org:81/browseposter.php?browse=8

[guest4955]

1979 article: MUST READ

[CSM]

Great article Mel - thanks for sharing

[guest4955]

Old email from a veteran collector:


    I, myself, never bought from the NSS closeouts, but I have bought large quantities of posters from individuals that did.  A lot of that NSS liquidation took place in the 70's and early 80's and I was a bit too young at that point to participate.  There are companies that distribute movie posters for certain studios today that routinely "destroy" existing stock when directed by the studio to do so.  I have stood in a parking lot and seen pallets of movies posters have a garden hose turned on them to "destroy" them.  It was like a stake driven into my heart!!   Never quite understood the reasoning of that other than they did not want them getting out to the public....

[guest4955]

[okiehawker]

Thanks for the repost, Sundance.  Ron's collection in his book, Graven Images, calls to me regularly from my bookshelf!  Okie

[cabmangray]

Great article, Sundance. My own experiences with NSS was, when I first started collecting in the mid 70's, it was always rejection - "No, no, we ONLY sell to theatres! Sorry." Which, out of frustration lead to late night dumpster dives in Paramus then later in Englewood. Sometimes a somewhat sympathetic theatre manager would give me a pressbook, but no posters. 

As I mentioned, at the NSS Paramus location in the mid 70's they would routinely destroy everything tossed out but when they moved from Camden to Englewood they would just toss everything out intact. Their yearly clean-outs was when you could just drive up at night and quietly grab whatever you wanted. They made no attempt to destroy anything. Sealed boxes of 1-sheets were there for the taking; ED WOOD, AMERICAN HISTORY X, SONATINE, PULP FICTION, sometimes a good Disney title would slip through like advance 1-sheets for BEAUTY AND THE BEAST. Throughout the rest of the year NSS would also toss out UPS returns from various theatres. If UPS attempted to deliver a tube of 4 or 5 1-sheets to a theatre and couldn't get a signature for it, it was returned to NSS where they would just toss it out. Sometimes the posters would be a little damaged, but if it was a larger order a couple of posters could be salvaged. Once a week they would junk the returned 35mm trailers. The boxes would be opened, the trailers for upcoming films taken out and the rest discarded. When a major movie like TERMINATOR 2 or INDEPENDENCE DAY opened, you could be sure the trailers would get tossed within a month of it's release.

Also, unless you were a collector or were savvy enough to figure it out, the general public had no clue where the posters came from. NSS stopped printing their stupid "warning" on the posters by that time. Only the "NSS" in small print on the bottom of the poster. Conversely whenever I dealt with Consolidated Posters or Donald Velde, there was never a problem and I always got what I wanted with no questions asked.