Vintage paper - going up or down?

[ozcinemagic]

Where are prices heading for pre 1960 material?

You a seller or squirrel?

Why?

[CSM]

The one on the right is intimidatingly well-endowed! 

I will agree with whatever his opinion is

[50s]

That's just nuts

[oldposterho]

I want to believe that's just his tail.  [**crosses legs, just in case...**]

As for the OP's question, I think it depends on the title.  Gone are the days when any c-list poster is worth a few hundred just because it's old, silents in particular.  Title, stars, and quality of image are becoming much more important, although stars less so as fewer and fewer collectors even know who these old timers are.

IMHO, this is just the natural wave that flows through collectibles as one generation's movies and toys are superseded by the movies and toys of the next generation, who could care less about the interests of their elders. 

Don't worry, it's going to happen to your posters some day too.  Bwoohoohahahahaha!

[paul waines]

In some case's maybe, but I've been waiting over 30 years for the Universal Horror bubble to burst, so I can pick up all those posters for peanuts.....   Any time now.....

[brude]

Sex always sells.
As do monsters and aliens, spaceships and dinosaurs.
Fantastic imagery -- the stuff that dreams are made of -- will always appreciate in value.
All else eventually fades into the mist.

Except for the occasional exception, of course. 

[jayn_j]

Hmmm, I think we may be reaching the point where old silent posters have value regardless of title.  First, they are OLD.  >100 years old sells, especially in something as fragile as paper.  Second, the designs tend to be striking.  Stone litho takes on art for its own sake.  Third, the rarity of silent posters makes them nearly unique works of art.

I look to see this take off in the next 20 years.

[CSM]

Hmmm, I think we may be reaching the point where old silent posters have value regardless of title.  First, they are OLD.  >100 years old sells, especially in something as fragile as paper.  Second, the designs tend to be striking.  Stone litho takes on art for its own sake.  Third, the rarity of silent posters makes them nearly unique works of art.

I look to see this take off in the next 20 years.

I completely disagree.  Silents are going down in general and will continue this trend.  Very few people have any connection with these films and this fact will only increase as time goes by.  Sure some major stars or major titles will continue to hold 'value' but overall I'd rather be buying 80s material at this point!

The art for art's sake and extreme age arguments will not be enough to save them.  But it will be a great opporunity for those who do appreciate posters of this vintage!

[ddilts399]

I completely disagree.  Silents are going down in general and will continue this trend.  Very few people have any connection with these films and this fact will only increase as time goes by.  Sure some major stars or major titles will continue to hold 'value' but overall I'd rather be buying 80s material at this point!

The art for art's sake and extreme age arguments will not be enough to save them.  But it will be a great opporunity for those who do appreciate posters of this vintage!

What he said.

[paul waines]

I wouldn't say prices on silent film posters are on the down, I'd say they were steady to on the up, especially the choice titles. Hasn't there been a load of talk about a certain silent film....

The only reason to buy a poster is the film means something to you, or you just like the art; And some of those silent film posters are as J says just fantastic pieces of art, which will always sell.

Poster collecting is still in it's early stages, once digital images take over, I see prices most definitely going up...  

[ddilts399]

And I disagree with this one, once digital overtakes paper, the poster market is going deflate. You will maintain your existing buyers, but there will be no new blood entering the hobby cause all they see at the local theater is a nice tv screen.

[paul waines]

Eventually, but Not in our life-times. Paper will always be collected until a few generations have gone by...  Time is the factor here.

[CSM]

There is little doubt actual paper posters will always be collected in some way.

But the issue is value or perceived value which is driven by competition.  As the demand for most silents (hell even many 30s posters) goes down amongst collectors and the population as whole - their overall 'value' is going to decrease right along with it...

I certainly agree the artwork is fantastic on many vintage posters (that's why I collect them after all!) but there needs to be more intrinsically to sustain the market.

[paul waines]

Thing Is Chris, most of these silent film posters and as you say, into the 30's. Are limited to a handful of copies(more so in the U.K.), with some being the only known copy, and as such will always be in demand, in our life-times...

Lets give it 10 years, and if I'm right you send me a fantastic Daybill collection, and if your right, you'll have some jollyfine Quads on there way to you....

[CSM]

Thing Is Chris, most of these silent film posters and as you say, into the 30's. Are limited to a handful of copies(more so in the U.K.), with some being the only known copy, and as such will always be in demand, in our life-times...

Lets give it 10 years, and if I'm right you send me a fantastic Daybill collection, and if your right, you'll have some jollyfine Quads on there way to you....

Quads?  I don't need no stinkin' quads! 

I do understand what you are saying Paul - but if there is only one copy of something and only one person wants it - there is no competition and thus value stagnation or diminution follows.  Rarity does not necessarily equate with value unless there is competition...

[Louie D.]

I will say, as one who collect 99.9% vintage, it's been all over the board.  Some stuff which should be going for nothing is crazy and stuff which should be going for $$$$ goes for a few bucks.  I think it's a cycle.

[jayn_j]

I completely disagree.  Silents are going down in general and will continue this trend.  Very few people have any connection with these films and this fact will only increase as time goes by.  Sure some major stars or major titles will continue to hold 'value' but overall I'd rather be buying 80s material at this point!

The art for art's sake and extreme age arguments will not be enough to save them.  But it will be a great opporunity for those who do appreciate posters of this vintage!

The reason I said it like I did was because I believe the buying public will soon stop viewing these silent stone lithos as "movie posters" and start seeing them as "art prints".  Much the same as how posters for French and German cabaret shows from the late nineteenth century have become art that stands on its own.  I also said to give it 20 years.  This is not a hobby where you turn profits overnight (except for the artificial Alamo market)

[Repto]

I tend to agree with Brude on trend, good stuff (boobs, art or title) is still as expensive as ever and rising. The outliers are as a un-predictable and frustrating as ever to me personally. Stuff I paid a fortune for I see go for peanuts and some stuff stays out of my reach until I give in and go over the odds, then the next week goes again for bugger all. The Matt Helm Ambushers Quad I was happy to get after losing out in auctions several times I have since seen go round several iterations of relist on Ebay and fail to sell at half the price. It seems to always cost a limb or or two to secure a Man From Uncle of any title...It has occured to me I am cursed...

My poster budget is fairly constant at whatever I can sneak past my wife, but looking at it this year spend is up while quantity is down...

Ah well, as my daughter says, First World problems...

[CSM]

The reason I said it like I did was because I believe the buying public will soon stop viewing these silent stone lithos as "movie posters" and start seeing them as "art prints".  Much the same as how posters for French and German cabaret shows from the late nineteenth century have become art that stands on its own.  I also said to give it 20 years.  This is not a hobby where you turn profits overnight (except for the artificial Alamo market)

Why does the market need another 20 years Jay?  Those silents are already 85-90 years old in most cases...

Does the magic 100 year mark suddenly change peoples' perceptions?

[jayn_j]

Why does the market need another 20 years Jay?  Those silents are already 85-90 years old in most cases...

Does the magic 100 year mark suddenly change peoples' perceptions?

I think it should be changing, but I say 20 years because we all look at short term trends.  In fact, the stuff I picked up 20 years ago from the '30s and '40s IS appreciating slowly. And a lot of stuff from the '60s and '70s has just stayed stable or lost value.

It is hard to tell by looking at the databases, simply because the material is mostly 1 of a kind, so it is much harder to spot trends.  I am not particularly good at it, and would prefer to hear Bruce, Grey or even Rich weigh in here.

[CSM]

When I look at Bruce's results on some "vintage titles" - i.e. 40s/50s and not necessarily silents or 30s - there seems to have been a big spike in the late 1990s/early 2000s.
Almost like people didn't realize at that time that the poster they were spending $2,000+ on WAS NOT one-of-a-kind.

That or they were speculating - incorrectly as it turns out

[theartofmovieposters]

I'm in the down camp.
With the exception of the big titles, as people have no link with the movies and images, they won't be spending any $ on the stuff.
Even more reason to only buy what you like (and can afford) and enjoy it!

[110x75]

but overall I'd rather be buying 80s material at this point!

Go clean your mouth, you bastard! 

[paul waines]

Quads?  I don't need no stinkin' quads! 

I do understand what you are saying Paul - but if there is only one copy of something and only one person wants it - there is no competition and thus value stagnation or diminution follows.  Rarity does not necessarily equate with value unless there is competition...

Your right in what you say about rarity, though it only takes two who do want it....
There's more 80's posters like that, Chris than silent era posters. There's stacks of 80's stuff one one cares about, and look awful. Yet early posters still have that artistic merit, even if no one has heard of the film. A great poster is still a great poster. People will still buy them as they look great on the wall as a piece of art....

[ozcinemagic]

I see the 100 year mark as significant. To my thinking this is where the object shifts from mere collectible to genuine antique. For me the "connection" theory is bogus, pessimistic, and just doesn't make sense. Everyone likes movies. People don't just collect stamps they remember licking!!
Awareness is growing and after 15 years of the internet the total number of posters in the market is becoming defined.
Earlier the material the better, and go squirrels!