The Pacific

[kovacs01]

I am a little late to the game on this one since it was on TV, but I am sure some of you have not seen it yet.  It came out last week on DVD and BD, and I just finished watching it (only took 2 sittings for 500+ minutes of film).  I would highly recommend it to anyone who is a fan of war films.  If you did not know, it was made by Spielberg and Hanks, who also collaborated on Band of Brothers.  I did not think it was as good as BoB, but that is setting the bar pretty high.  It is still far better than 90% of war films out there.  The production quality is certainly as good, but it trails BoB slightly in the story department, IMO.  It is on the graphic side though in terms of displaying the brutality of war.  And for all of you who are musically inclined, Hans Zimmer was at the helm for all 10 episodes.  I plan on watching it a second time with the commentary on very soon.  This will sit next to my Band of Brother blu ray set as two of the crown jewels in my collection.

[paul waines]

I didn't know about this, but I will be picking it up now, Thanks Schan.

[CSM]

You know I've always found it interesting how the War in Europe (ala BoB) has been covered far more (even to the point of glamorization) when compared with the War in the Pacific.

The Pacific War was far more brutal than the European War - is this an explanation?

[paul waines]

Actually bought it last night and managed to get 3 episodes in. It's jollyfine, really enjoying it, though I'm not sure about the hair style's, they seem to make it too modern. I thought all U.S. Marines had a chop-top? shaved up the sides and flat on top in WW2.

""The Pacific War was far more brutal than the European War - is this an explanation?""

I don't think I would agree with this statement though, Chris.

[Juli]

I watched this when it was on HBO and I loved it. I am planning on buying the DVD set soon.  

~ Juli

[supraman079]

I enjoyed it when it was on HBO, but I think I like the original Band of Brothers more. Both are very well done though. I just think they did a better job of making me care a little bit more about the characters in Band of Brothers.

[Harry Caul]

The Pacific War was far more brutal than the European War - is this an explanation?

While there were more troops involved in the European theater (and more capital, resources, etc...), I think this statement gets made because on a percentage basis, troop loses were generally higher the in Pacific -- that plus jungle warfare, plus tropical disease, plus the fact that the Japanese often fought to the last man (rarely surrendering).

Still, I imagine survivors who had boots on the ground in Europe might take issue with that sentiment!

[CSM]

Actually bought it last night and managed to get 3 episodes in. It's jollyfine, really enjoying it, though I'm not sure about the hair style's, they seem to make it too modern. I thought all U.S. Marines had a chop-top? shaved up the sides and flat on top in WW2.

""The Pacific War was far more brutal than the European War - is this an explanation?""

I don't think I would agree with this statement though, Chris.

I guess "brutal" is a qualitative word - I am of course referring to what Harry said in his post.  Of course the European theatre was terrible - it was war afterall and I have the utmost respect on this Remembrance Day for all of the brave people who fought on the side of the allies.

But as Harry said: "jungle warfare, plus tropical disease, plus the fact that the Japanese often fought to the last man (rarely surrendering)..." not to mention fighting over small islands with the Japanese entrenched in mountain caves and making repeated beach landings under fire in sweltering heat.  The casualties and general condition of the Pacific war were horrendous on a % and time basis (again as Harry says). 

Does anyone have an explanation why the European War has been covered/discussed and as I said "glamorized" vs the Pacific War?  Does it in the end, come down to some level of racism?

[paul waines]

I haven't enough time to retort at the moment as I'm "nipping" out, but I will be back.

[kovacs01]

I dont think it is racism Chris, but might be a little bit of a "culturism" issue going all the way back to the period of "Eurocentricity".  You have to remember that a great portion of America at the time were first, second, or third generation European immigrants.  Many Americans back in the 1940s could easily remember their parents or grandparents speaking fondly of their homeland.  I am not sure what portion of the oldest generation at the time (in their 70s) were immigrants, but it was certainly a fairly high number.  Also, I think, at the time, that it was much easier for word of the war in Europe to reach America putting it a little more in the forefront.  Additionally, war in Europe started much sooner than war in the Pacific so the focus was already there.  One final point may be that Hitler was much more visible an enemy and therefore easier to vilify.  Hirohito was no angel, but I think the cultural difference made him made him, at the time, much more difficult to identify with, hate, and be scared of.  Look at Timothy McVeigh, as an example.  One of the reasons he was so scary when compared to some of your more ethnic looking terrorists is that he could have easily been your neighbor, coworker, or even relative, and you would never suspect him just by looking at him.  Hitler, when not dressed up in all of his regalia, had that quality as well.  I don't think any one of these things was responsible for the phenomenon you asked about, but when combined make a pretty good explanation.

[paul waines]

Firstly it wasn't just americans in the pacific part of the war, there was British, and Australians over there too. A relation of mine was caught and tortured by the Japs, as was my English teacher. In the Pacific part of the war, it was mostly troops that were killed, the civilian casualties in Europe was immense, It wasn't called the HOLOCAUST for nothing. "Brutal" does not even come close to what happened in Europe. All wars are a terrible thing, but I think you need to do some research before making such a statement. I won't push this too much as it could become very political, or even kick off WW3.

As for films of WW2 pre 80's there must be hundred's of Pacific related films, John Wayne must have done a couple of dozen. I think it's only in recent years the European war has become a more popular choice. Though British pictures of the time did reflect what was happening in the European part of the World War. Lets not forget this was a World war and not two two separate one's.
   

[CSM]

Paul, in all fairness, I have performed many hours of research - I am by no means making the statement in a vacuum so to speak.

But let's chalk it up to a difference of opinion - and let me state again, I am by no means dismissing the European war and its own "brutality".

Oh and don't forget Canadians also fought in the Pacific (I only mention this because you specifically differentiated between the British and Australians )

[paul waines]

Quite right too Chris      On another note I'm up to episode seven, Very enjoyable. We watch Band of Brothers at least once a year, and we will be doing so with this series.

[Harry Caul]

In Chris's defense, I only took his comment about the "brutality" of the war in reference to the troop involvement... and more specifically Hollywood's and the popular media's portrayal of them (which is nearly 100% skewed to the American perspective) such as the two series in question. 

When looking through that lens, there is an obsession with D-Day that (many would say unfairly) overshadows all other military battles of WWII...

[CSM]

In Chris's defense, I only took his comment about the "brutality" of the war in reference to the troop involvement... and more specifically Hollywood's and the popular media's portrayal of them (which is nearly 100% skewed to the American perspective) such as the two series in question.  

When looking through that lens, there is an obsession with D-Day that (many would say unfairly) overshadows all other military battles of WWII...

Agreed Harry.  Not to belabour the point but this is along the lines, at least partially, of what I was trying to say.  There is definitely, at least presently, a biased portrayal of WW2 through the American lens or American experience if you will - which means Peal Harbour, D-Day and the Pacific War.

[paul waines]

WW2 is a tricky and complicated subject, that requires a different forum, never mind a different thread, but I see what you guy's are driving at. Though with most of the biggest films coming from the U.S. it's bound to be a little one sided. 

[joneyyy]

id really like them to do a mini series on the battle of britain... find it kind of strange how the most important battle of tha war are still not very well told...

[Gimpy]

I'm proud to say that I'm the owner of both Band of Brothers and The Pacific on Blu-ray. Two exceptionally great productions. When The Pacific first aired and I saw the opening credits for the first time, I teared up a little they are very well done. While Band of Brothers may have more of an emotional bonding/impact, The Pacific still delivers some of the same.

Speaking of Band of Brothers, I was very sad to have found out the other day that Major Richard "Dick" D. Winters (the real guy) passed away at 92 earlier this month.

[T-Shime]

I was wondering if this was going to be filmed as well as Band of Brothers, I will have to check it out.