Phantom Variant

[kovacs01]

Time to let it go..........

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=151027741982

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

I hope you sell it for $$$ but I don't like "hidden reserve" auctions and have never bid on one as a matter of principle.

This article details why "hidden reserve" auctions suck all around.    

Why not just start it off at the lowest price you will accept or list it as a Buy It Now (with offers accepted)?

[kovacs01]

I hope you sell it for $$$ but I don't like "hidden reserve" auctions and have never bid on one as a matter of principle.

This article details why "hidden reserve" auctions suck all around.    

Why not just start it off at the lowest price you will accept or list it as a Buy It Now (with offers accepted)?

I dunno, I have never sold anything on ebay before and it does not give you the option not to hide it.  But what I do know is that I don't really care whether Mel likes it or not.

[kovacs01]

the reserve is set at 3k by the way.

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

It certainly is your business if you want to pay an extra 1% commission for a "feature" that, as the article accurately states, most collectors "intensely hate."

[kovacs01]

It certainly is your business if you want to pay an extra 1% commission for a "feature" that, as the article accurately states, most collectors "intensely hate."

You're right, except it did not cost me anything.  I had an email from ebay with a deal.

[eatbrie]

Mel does have a point, Schan.  You probably don't care about what I have to say either, but I will say it anyway...  I never, ever bid on anything with reserved pricing.  I hate it.  Either you tell me how much you want or I will not be playing your game.

T

[kovacs01]

Thats fine.  Its not a game, and I dont have a problem telling anyone who asks, several did.  Like I said, I have never sold anything on ebay before.  At the same time, why should it really matter.  You bid what you are willing to pay.  If it is more than the reserve price, then you and i both are happy.  I could see it being different if the fact that there was a reserve set was a secret.

[eatbrie]

I personally feel it does matter, before it unpowers the seller and is a big waste of time.  Why should I spend my time trying to figure out what a seller wants?  Why should I give him the upper hand?

But at the end of the day, it's up to you to sell stuff the way you want to sell stuff.  I think what Mel and I are trying to say is that Reserve Pricing can rub some collectors the wrong way.  Just be aware of it.

T

[kovacs01]

Why should I give him the upper hand?

why should the seller give away the upper hand?

[Ari]

Wouldn't bother me or put me off, I'd just put my max bid in, if it was accepted good, if reserve not met, I think oh well, too much, next time.

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Normally, it's obnoxious game-playing.  I know Schan had good intentions but he did start the bidding at $500, 16% of his true minimum of $3,000. In a true auction, you must give bidders at least the chance of getting a bargain.  It's better for everybody if the auction starts at the minimum price the seller will accept OR the seller establishes a Buy It Now price with the option to accept best offers.

[kovacs01]

In a true auction, you must give bidders at least the chance of getting a bargain.

The reserve is 11% less than the average selling price over the last 6 months.  So just how much of a bargain does a bargain have to be?

[Ari]

Why should an auction at least give the chance of a bargain anyway?
I don't understand this mentality, if the price doesn't suit, don't buy. This isn't air.

[50s]

I dont bid on ebay hidden reserve auctions. I feel like the seller is playing a game with me before I even start. They must think I am stupid if they think by using hidden reserve they will trick me into parting with more than I would have. Id rather they can keep it than playing their game and making them feel smug.

I could be convinced though I am the one with the problem!

[eatbrie]

Schan, can you explain the logic behind telling everyone that the reserve price is $3k, yet starting the auction much lower.  If this print, as you say, usually sells for $3,250 (11% above $3,000), why not start the auction at $3k with a $4k buy-it-now?  What is the point, from a seller's perspective, of starting low and yet telling everyone what you won't sell under?  I have never sold anything (and obviously come from the other end of the spectrum), so maybe it is a seller's trick I do not comprehend.

T

[Tob]

I think the problem with a high starting price is a lot of people will glance, but not consider buying it because they'll think 'no bargain to be had here". But if you hook bidders in early on, the thought of winning and owning the piece starts to grow in their mind and they may bid more than they initially earmarked when first glancing at the auction, especially if it turns into a bidding war with multiple bidders so the buyer feels more comfortable with the value (based on demand from other buyers)?

I don't sell either though, so the above is just guesswork!

Good luck with the sale, Schan!

[guest8]

Well .. I was just happy watching this until the sale figures got brought into the mix .. I'm assuming you are using EB and if so then the numbers are not correct. I know that when I sold mine for $3,250 that Doyle sold his AP IN AUCTION (that's a key part here) for under $2k .. I think he even had to re-list it one time after that as well and the 2nd time it still sold for less than $2k. Whats the difference between his and mine and the other high selling auctions might you ask? Mine and the one that sold for $3,400 were not auctions! We had a high BIN price and the Make an Offer option available. My copy sat on there for months before I got the offer that I decided to sell it for. The thing about these posters is, they do not pop up all that often.. so you have to let some one get desperate enough and start thinking that this is the only one that will ever pop up. So they choose to make an offer that will secure it for them. Hence the BIN with Make Offer posts getting really high prices on hard to find prints.

Also, as far as the reserve bit goes... I side with Mel and T .. i will not usually even bid on an auction that has a reserve. As a seller you are trying to entice someone into buying your product. The reserve puts an invisible wall up between the buyer and what they want, part of what makes a good auctioneer is someone who can work the crowd up and get people excited and getting people into bidding wars! Since you cant talk to people on ebay that's what the low $1 starting prices do.. People think that they will get it super cheap .. this is great ! Ive been waiting forever for this to pop up .. But there could be 10 other people thinking the exact same thing. The more people bidding the more people get worked up and start bidding emotionally not logically and by placing the reserve on your auction .. You just lost me, T and Mel as potential bidders.. meaning there's not as many people fighting over the same piece, thus it is now less likely to net you the price you really want.

Now I get where youre coming from.. you dont want to risk a $1 auction on a $3k print .. Which is what Doyle did and he paid dearly. So follow the pattern that worked for me and other sellers .. cancel that auction and re-list with your dream BIN price and let people make offers.. eventually someone will come along and make the offer you are looking for. Also.. if you decide to do that turn on the auto-decline feature that will decline offers below a certain amount. I got slammed with $100-500 offers when I 1st listed mine. I set mine at like $2500 so I could see who the serious bidders were and potentially open talks with them via email.

Also, realize that we are offering our opinions in an effort to help you get what you want out of the print. So by just blowing off our opinions you're only hurting yourself. I get that you shouldn't have to care what other people prefer and all that .. but selling (especially in an auction format) is kind of an art form and sadly you do not have the name recognition like DaveL or Bruce where you can start an auction super low and "know" that it should get to where you're expecting. Also take note .. The big names I just mentioned .. neither of them use reserve priced auction either. They either set a BIN or start them at $1 ... just something to think about.

[Bruce]

The way I see it, you have to look at the potential number of serious bidders who will be "fooled" by the "competition" and go higher than they might have vs the potential number of serious bidders who will be annoyed by the reserve to not bid at all. If you think the first group is greater than the second, then go for it.

[CSM]

I think the problem with a high starting price is a lot of people will glance, but not consider buying it because they'll think 'no bargain to be had here". But if you hook bidders in early on, the thought of winning and owning the piece starts to grow in their mind and they may bid more than they initially earmarked when first glancing at the auction, especially if it turns into a bidding war with multiple bidders so the buyer feels more comfortable with the value (based on demand from other buyers)?

Agree.

Now correct me if I am wrong but you can't see if there is a reserve on an eBay auction from just browsing listings (i.e. prior to clicking or entering the auction it self).  So low starting bid gets people to view the auction.

[erik1925]

Remember, too, that Schan has it listed with a BIN option, as well.

Simply "click" the button and that beauty is yours.

Good luck Schan!

[paul waines]

Good tactics are needed for selling at a Maximum, and I think T has something.

However, I would never be put off any kind of deal, just thinking the seller is playing games. We all play games when we buy and sell, it's life.

Add your reserve to the listing Schan,  And all the best with it...

[eatbrie]

I personally don't care either way (I still own 2 of those), but if I did, I would for sure not participate.  I think what Bruce said is right on the money: Alienate one group, fool the other.  I don't have an answer as to which one is larger.

T

[ddilts399]

I would never sell something like this without a reserve. It protects you from it falling through the cracks. You do NOT put a high starting price on it due to how people sort, filter and have all their search stuff setup many people would not see the item.  Low price gets more eyes on it, more people talking about it.

As a buyer a reserve means nothing to me, I know what I am bidding and whether you have a reserve or not, I am not going any higher.  I am with Schan on this one all the way, reserves protect your ass..ets , sorry bargain hunters. I dont see how this is trying to "fool" anyone. If you are a serious bidder on this item, the reserve is meaningless to you as well unless you are trying to get it for pennies on the dollar to resell down the road.

[kovacs01]

Whats the difference between his and mine and the other high selling auctions might you ask? Mine and the one that sold for $3,400 were not auctions!

Does not matter.  It has repeatedly (3 times) sold above the 3k mark.  The forum of the sale does not matter when you are talking about using previous sales to establish a value.

You just lost me, T and Mel as potential bidders.. meaning there's not as many people fighting over the same piece, thus it is now less likely to net you the price you really want.

I care far less about that than I do about having what happened to Doyle happen to me.  If you look at that auction and see that it has a reserve, then that probably tells you that the seller (me) has some preconceived estimation of its value.  As the potential buyer of a print in that price range, you know very well where you can go to find that potential value.  If you were the guy that was looking to pay $1800 for a print that has consistently sold for much more, then you know you are in the wrong place.  So, I lost you as a bidder, but I was never going to sell to you inthe first place and you would not have bid had I started the auction at $3000.  what is the difference?

cancel that auction

No.  But before anyone had weighed in, I had already planned to go BIN with it if it did not sell at auction.

Also, realize that we are offering our opinions in an effort to help you get what you want out of the print. So by just blowing off our opinions you're only hurting yourself.  

You expect me to assume that your opinions are based on valid, correct data and not pure conjecture or personal feelings, though I am not sure why you have that expectation.  I have seen Mel's (we all know he has his eccentricities), and T's (he's French and he hates all sellers anyway), and yours Dave.  All like opionions, but I have seen those on the other side as well.  In the end, I the bottom line is all I really care about here.  You all may tell me told you so if I do not get it in this auction, but it doesnt really matter to me.  You all seem to be of the mind that just because some people do not like it that it will cause a lower price to be realized at auction.  I follow that logic on the surface, but, ultimately, it is a non-sequitur  One auction doesnt really prove anyone right or wrong either way anyway.  I am in no hurry, and I will get it eventually.

sadly you do not have the name recognition like DaveL or Bruce where you can start an auction super low and "know" that it should get to where you're expecting.

Exactly, so why even bother to offer them up as examples?