Author Topic: APF Price Police: What is your standard for determining "overpaying" at auction?  (Read 51611 times)

Online eatbrie

  • Administrator
  • Post-aholic
  • *****
  • Posts: 12320
    • My Posters
David, I understand what you're saying, and no, I don't consider myself a seller.  I have never sold posters for $$$, and I must have traded 20 posters in my 12 years of collecting.  It's mostly due to laziness.  I just don't want to deal with it.

This said, if someone on a forum I run post a poster and marks it at $300 when I have seen the same poster go for $20, I will say it.  If someone buys a poster for $1,500 and I don't think it's worth it, I will say it.  People will not like it, but so be it.  I think posters in general are way overvalued.  Like I said, it is my point of view, and I don't think it is through hindsight glasses.  Feel free to disagree with me, it's what this forum is for.  And by the way, by saying that, I am also lowering the value of my entire collection.  But I don't care.  I'm not here to make money.

T
My Personal Collection


- I wish to thank all APF members for being part of the World's Largest Social Gathering of Movie Poster Collectors
- "Wishing you the best of luck with All Poster Forum and in encouraging others to appreciate the magical art of film posters" - Martin Scorsese (2009)

Offline CSM

  • Post-aholic
  • **********
  • Posts: 12567
There are a number of factors at play. If a poster is extremely rare and has little to no prior selling history, it's impossible to put a firm and accurate "value" of the poster. If there is only one of something, and two people are willing to pay $X to have it, the value is $X even if a thousand other people think that it's only worth $Y. Granted if the loser of the auction doesn't want it any more, and the winner tries to resell it, he may soon find out that the NEW value is only $Y. When you get into these rare piece auctions, prices can soar if there is enough interest and people with deep enough pockets. I recently picked up a very nice poster for a very large amount of money. I personally think I got a great deal on it, since two other ones recently sold for a thousand or two more. But those prior winners might be thinking "crap, my poster is worth less now". It's all subjective, and in the end, only one thing matters = what is the poster worth to you, and how much are you willing (and able) to spend on it.


^^^THIS ^^^
Chris

Offline holiday

  • Thierry's Nightmare a/k/a King Slut
  • Administrator
  • Hoarder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2154
    • Two Parrots Gallery
I keep a very tight spreadsheet of my spending. 

I'm sure Julie would NOT want to see that!  You'd be doomed.
Best regards,

Holiday


Check out my new place!
Two Parrots Gallery

"What happened to all the people?" Mystified MPF Member, February 20, 2010

"I actually quite like the name Peanut."  Andy Neal on MOPO, April 22, 2010

Thierry:  Type the word APF on MPF and it spells: "Banned due to malicious unsolicited private message ".

Charlie to the guy who lost to EatBrie:  You just got "T-boned"!  Happens to the best of us...  Wait until you get "Holidazed"!

Thierry to Silhouette:  Please tell her it's a tiny part of my collection so she doesn't think I'm a total creep.  Oh wait, no, I am a total creep.

Offline Zorba

  • Curator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6024
  • Lets dance!
Three plus years and well over 300 pieces of paper and zero trades. Just the way its been not out of some I will never sell policy. I am sure I will sell or trade one day soon as I do have doubles and the herd is over running my condo.

All collectors sell in one way or an other but they are not dealers. I never confuse a seller with a dealer.  8)

ozcinemagic

  • Guest
I'm happy for anyone to question my prices. And actually, I think T & I have a lot in common; we call it how we see it! I respect that.
For the rarer posters you have to get full value when selling. It's not about what the average collector thinks is a fair price. It's about what that one person who desperately wants it will pay. I'll sell that Halloween 3 poster in that price range, I guarantee it. I haven't handled another or seen another for sale on Phil Edward's or JR's websites. If you don't make a buck on those ones it's not worth being in the game.
Matrix for $1500. I nearly fell over. I bet more show up soon!

Offline Silhouette

  • Hoarder
  • ****
  • Posts: 3866
Three plus years and well over 300 pieces of paper and zero trades. Just the way its been not out of some I will never sell policy. I am sure I will sell or trade one day soon as I do have doubles and the herd is over running my condo.

All collectors sell in one way or an other but they are not dealers. I never confuse a seller with a dealer.  8)

Z...you are a pure collector! (atm)

I am curious (now this topic has headed off on its inevitable tangent) - what do you define as dealer?
David


Offline Zorba

  • Curator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6024
  • Lets dance!
Z...you are a pure collector! (atm)

I am curious (now this topic has headed off on its inevitable tangent) - what do you define as dealer?

I dont think of you as one. We only have a handful of dealers on this board.

On the spot, I would say someone who makes their living selling posters. 

Offline Zorba

  • Curator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6024
  • Lets dance!
To add to that I dont get why to some, dealer is a dirty word. Not all dealers are the same or alike. Their are some Awesome dealers out there.

I buy from the good ones all the time.

Oh and I define good ones as good BY ME not by someone else.  8)

 

Online eatbrie

  • Administrator
  • Post-aholic
  • *****
  • Posts: 12320
    • My Posters
To add to that I dont get why to some, dealer is a dirty word. Not all dealers are the same or alike. Their are some Awesome dealers out there.

 

Good one.  I'm a little bit at a crossroad here.  I come from a French art dealing family.  Starting in 1840, when my great-great grandfather opened his business in Paris, to today (my sister runs the gallery), my family has been dealing in fine art, and obviously living off it.  From Renoir, to Monet, to Degas (the gallery's specialty), to Picasso, to Matisse.  So in essence, I exist because of it.  In essence also, I cannot be completely against dealers.  Like you said, there are some very good ones out there (Bruce and Rich, especially).  But there are also the ones who abuse the system and command outrageous prices (I mentioned one yesterday).  I think those dealers are a disservice to the hobby and I will never buy from them.  They also give the good dealers a bad name.  The same way I have a very short list of people I trust, I have a short list of people to avoid at all cost.

T
My Personal Collection


- I wish to thank all APF members for being part of the World's Largest Social Gathering of Movie Poster Collectors
- "Wishing you the best of luck with All Poster Forum and in encouraging others to appreciate the magical art of film posters" - Martin Scorsese (2009)

ozcinemagic

  • Guest
Since we're angling at sellers and their ethics here, I'm going to throw in some shameless self-promotion.
Anyone who has bought from me more than once knows I have given away as many posters as I have ever sold. Dealers need good repeat customers, and that relationship matures over time. You want good prices / freebies? Develop a good working relationship with a reputable dealer. Not many I know of are getting rich out of movie posters!

Bruce

  • Guest
I am not a dealer. I used to be one of the foremost ones. But I virtually never buy anything, and try to keep my auctions 100% consignment.

When someone says they will only sell, I tell them to sell to someone else, and hope their items make it back to my auctions. I turned down a great lobby card collection because the seller would only sell, and he sold them to a dealer who apparently has sold most of them privately.

I do this so as not to be in competition with my consignors. When they get more money I get more money, and I like it that way.

I am not a dealer, but rather am an auctioneer.

Dread_Pirate_Mel

  • Guest
 I have noticed a lot of APF'ers taking pleaure is saying that people overpaying at Bruce's recent auction.  And of course that would include all of my purchases as well.   ;D  But for those of you who are the "price police" what is your standard for determining crazy prices?


(1) There are no price guidelines for a true unicorn poster like that Matrix poster.  It's like the Star Trek episode "Where No Man Has Gone Before."  Things get wacky when you cross the galactic barrier. Things get wacky when a unicorn comes up for auction.  

(2) Every "elite" collector must have at least one "unicorn" poster that nobody else has.  So it's OK occasionally to pay an outrageous price for a unicorn poster IMHO.  I paid $750 for the international LA Confidential (below right) along those lines. Like your Matrix poster, no way is it worth $750 purely for its artistic merits but it makes you a "true pimp collector" on a forum like this.



(3) But generally you're better off spending that kind of money on a more conventional poster that would be appreciated by the general public.  In that same auction you could have nabbed the Invasion of the Body Snatchers in the same price range:

« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 08:09:13 PM by Dread_Pirate_Mel »

Online 50s

  • Curator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5630
  • Steve
Dealers/auctioneers mission is to extract the most possible money from you. With nearly all transactions where you dont see the item in person, what you get is not 100% what you expected due to lack of image detail or description (especially with ebay transactions). That leads to some disapointment. Unlike when you buy an ipod or new book, where you get what you expect, you dont with with posters. Dealers need to mitigate this disapointment with providing enough details to avoid this. Dealers instead of providing all the info, may instead relying on a policy of send it back for a refund, this gives me the shits, because it leads to disapointment and wasted time for the buyer and possibly additionally also foot the return shipping. I have missed out on another sale at the same time caught up in such a mess (budget didn't stretch to buy both so ended up with none - thanks for nothing shitty seller). So to me sellers as a whole have earnt and deserve the reputation they have. In life, we can only make sense of the world by categorising things. It is not possible to make an accurate judgement on every person, thing.

There are good sellers and I would put Bruce up amongst the top as I pretty much get what I expect. Maybe a newb may have different expectations though, not knowing exactly what to look for in a photo, or what good or fine means.

As much as I like Bruces descriptions I have to say, there is no reverse side image, which is half the poster, maybe just a description of some darkening. But what matters most to me on the reverse is the writing - if it can be sanded off. Ink on the reverse side opposite a light part of the poster can cause big problems when linen backed (ink bleed thru) - can ruin a poster. The reverse side needs sufficient details too, at the moment buying from Bruce is still a crapshoot no matter how good the description is at present.   For instance, this poster, is mostly white and bleed through potentially could be big problem. I would want to be sure I understood what was on the back. Because I don't know, I am not going any where near this one, nor any posters with white on them without clear detail of what is on the back. Most older posters have writing on the back. Not showing the back is a calculated decision. Maybe loses me as a bidder, but gains the naive? Who knows. Bruce, a reverse side image, would be an improvement to your descriptions, even if available just only on request, or even just detailing if the writing can be removed or not would be a great added piece of information.


(2) Every "elite" collector must have at least one "unicorn" poster that nobody else has.

signed

'elite' collector

please don't feel inadequate if you are non elite, you can still reply





Offline Zorba

  • Curator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6024
  • Lets dance!
signed

'elite' collector

please don't feel inadequate if you are non elite, you can still reply


 laugh1

I hope I get a unicorn soon!

Im glad Im not the only one here drinking tonight.  ;D

Offline ATLfun

  • Hoarder
  • ****
  • Posts: 1031

 If someone buys a poster for $1,500 and I don't think it's worth it, I will say it.  People will not like it, but so be it. T

  That would make you Officer Thierry of the APF Price Police.

  Funny, how most of these auctions for "rare" posters are often run up by Mark Lawd, and yet he escapes your auction price survelliance.


   Brian  
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 08:49:49 PM by ATLfun »
   "Please step away from the keyboard.  In my unsolicited opinion, you paid too much for your poster," said APF Price Police Officer Thierry.  




.

Online eatbrie

  • Administrator
  • Post-aholic
  • *****
  • Posts: 12320
    • My Posters
Does he post here?  I don't know the guy.

T
My Personal Collection


- I wish to thank all APF members for being part of the World's Largest Social Gathering of Movie Poster Collectors
- "Wishing you the best of luck with All Poster Forum and in encouraging others to appreciate the magical art of film posters" - Martin Scorsese (2009)

Offline ATLfun

  • Hoarder
  • ****
  • Posts: 1031
  Just be happy and fuck the rest of us and what we have to say about it.


Truer words have never been spoken.   wynk  I like my poster collector niche to no end.  I might end up with only 75 framed posters, but they will be 75 posters that will occasionally pop up on poster forums when the conversation turns to "modern unicorns"  or as a part of Bruce's "ultra rare" write-ups.


Brian
  

   "Please step away from the keyboard.  In my unsolicited opinion, you paid too much for your poster," said APF Price Police Officer Thierry.  




.

Offline oldposterho

  • Collector
  • ***
  • Posts: 646
    • Peter's Movie Posters
Everybody's price point is different.  As long as there's food on the table, a roof over your head, the spouse will still give you the occasional nookie, and you can get your kid the GI Joe with the kung fu grip at Christmas, what you pay for posters ain't a problem.

--Peter
For sale and trade posters: *Here*

Offline Zorba

  • Curator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6024
  • Lets dance!
Everybody's price point is different.  

That it is.

Setting aside The Its A Wonderful Life type poster, I like that that personal price point is based on more than just ones income. Sure income is a major player (many posters I want that I will never have) but more importantly there is ones personal connection to a movie, actor or director and then there is of course artistic taste.

My posters, at least 99% of them are not a reflection of my tax bracket but of the things I enjoy and or love.

I like MY posters a lot.  ;D

« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 09:30:28 PM by Zorba »

Offline theartofmovieposters

  • Collector
  • ***
  • Posts: 905
    • theartofmovieposters
Will another turn up for less eventually?  Probably...will another turn up for more eventually?  Probably...
I don't get why anyone cares what others think of what you buy and what you spend...buy what you like, for a price you are happy with and can afford.
That is all that matters.
Annoys the crap out of me that other collectors poo poo other peoples purchases...if we all liked the same thing, we'd be up poop creek!

As to dealers...there are some really good ones out there, and if manage to gain a relationship with them, they will generally be good to you.
Many of my crayon drawn daybills which I love, came from dealers who have offered them to me first because they know I love em...

Ves

Offline ATLfun

  • Hoarder
  • ****
  • Posts: 1031

Annoys the crap out of me that other collectors poo poo other peoples purchases...if we all liked the same thing, we'd be up poop creek!



  Well said, but your fiber intake must be off the charts.   ;D


  Brian
   "Please step away from the keyboard.  In my unsolicited opinion, you paid too much for your poster," said APF Price Police Officer Thierry.  




.

Offline Zorba

  • Curator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6024
  • Lets dance!
Annoys the crap out of me that other collectors poo poo other peoples purchases...if we all liked the same thing, we'd be up poop creek!

 thumbup

Agree 100% but now you got me thinking of when my sisters kids were calling me Mr Poopy Pants.  

The good ole days.  ;D

Charlie

  • Guest
Hey T, I just picked up the Love and Other Pursuits B1 for $4 less than you...  Haha....  Patient he says.


 

Charlie

  • Guest
Every "elite" collector must have at least one "unicorn" poster that nobody else has.  So it's OK occasionally to pay an outrageous price for a unicorn poster IMHO.  I paid $750 for the international LA Confidential (below right) along those lines. Like your Matrix poster, no way is it worth $750 purely for its artistic merits but it makes you a "true pimp collector" on a forum like this.

I didn't know this rule???

Offline CSM

  • Post-aholic
  • **********
  • Posts: 12567
I can't wait until I am a true pimp collector on a forum like this  eyeroll
Chris