Author Topic: APF Price Police: What is your standard for determining "overpaying" at auction?  (Read 51616 times)

Offline ATLfun

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  I have noticed a lot of APF'ers taking pleaure is saying that people overpaying at Bruce's recent auction.  And of course that would include all of my purchases as well.   ;D  But for those of you who are the "price police" what is your standard for determining crazy prices?

  For example, the Int. American Werewold in London sold for $780 at emovie yesterday. Is that crazy?  Only Heritage had previous price points for the poster and they were 657 in 2010, 806 and 896 in 2011.  Is there one I can buy today for $500.  Another first for emovie first was the Deliverance Advance that went for 1100 (marklawd) but it had sold previously for 1200 at heritage.  Is there one that I can buy today for $700?  Personally, I think emovie is catching Heritage in earning top dollar for it customers on rarer posters.

  A comment or two was made about my Int. Matrix for 1500.  But out of nearly a million auction results (emovie-730k,Heritage-175k), one had never been publicly auctioned off before. Let's see, a decade old poster, never seeing the light of day auctioned off for the first time.  Is there one listed anywhere on the internet for less?  How about my 1550 Lucky Strikes PF?  Bruce had never sold one previously in the same condition as mine and HA had auction for one in 2007 for $1553 listed as VF+.


  Seriously, for those who enjoy being the "price police" and saying that  people are overpaying, what is your standard?



  Brian

  

« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 02:41:54 PM by ATLfun »
   "Please step away from the keyboard.  In my unsolicited opinion, you paid too much for your poster," said APF Price Police Officer Thierry.  




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Offline eatbrie

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To me, it all comes down to what I own, how much I paid for it, and what it sells for at Emovieposter.  In this last sale, everything generally sold 3 to 5x more than what I paid for it.  Granted, I am very patient, I know that everything comes back at some point, and I buy it at the lowest possible price. 

Take Pulp Fiction, for instance.  I bought a mint advance for $280 6 months ago.  I had wanted one for a long time and refused to pay more than $500.  Not worth a dime more in my opinion.  But I'm cheap.  So I bought 3 Struzan Frankensteins from Mondo for $280 a piece, waited for it to sell north of $700 on Ebay and traded it for a Pulp Fiction.  Therefore, Pulp Fiction cost me $280.  I really wanted an international "Boat out of the Eye" Deliverance poster.  I saw it go past $1k.  Again, I refused to pay more than $500.  For years I waited, and eventually found a mint copy for $340.  I'm in no hurry.  This is how I build my collection, one piece at a time.

Matrix, I don't know, I don't want it.  I'd buy it for $200 tops, because I think it's a very ugly poster.  And Keanu Reeves is just ridiculous.  But it's all personal.  I think the Intl. Deliverance is gorgeous, some people find it ugly.  The other Deliverance poster that just sold it just pathetic.  It only sells because it's rare, which does not interest me.  This said, I have no doubt that I will eventually find it for less than $300.

T
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Offline eatbrie

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Oh, and the international Werewolf in London poster cost me $87 on Ebay 3 years ago.  Mint condition.  Again, one that I had been looking for for a long time.  Patience, patience, patience.
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spazz

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I totally see where you’re coming from BUT I may add that yesterday was my very first auction & while it was fun I can't say I'll be doing a whole lot of it (really wanted the Cleopatra Jones insert). I may also add that while I collect posters I'm not one to fuss to much over condition as I'm not really looking at it as an investment but more for enjoyment & with most posters in the Fine to near mint area I'm almost guaranteed that the price point will be out of reach, I could also get lucky(if you need a figure I'd say sub 50.00....100.00 tops) I really did enjoy seeing rare posters like the Endless Summer international & the ones you mentioned & it's probably not worth Bruce's time or effort to source out less than perfect posters for those of us with shallower pockets as I may be the only one bidding. I think it was mentioned else where but the only problem I can see is that Bruce's site is the "gold standard" & as such most non-auction related poster stores/E-Bay...etc check the latest prices & jack theirs(always upward never down) I will end with this if you got the coin to spend more power to you.

Offline kovacs01

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So I bought 3 Struzan Frankensteins from Mondo for $280 a piece, waited for it to sell north of $700 on Ebay and traded it for a Pulp Fiction.  Therefore, Pulp Fiction cost me $280. 


Casinos would love you.
Schan
Thanks.  You know what you did.
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Offline enki

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There are a number of factors at play. If a poster is extremely rare and has little to no prior selling history, it's impossible to put a firm and accurate "value" of the poster. If there is only one of something, and two people are willing to pay $X to have it, the value is $X even if a thousand other people think that it's only worth $Y. Granted if the loser of the auction doesn't want it any more, and the winner tries to resell it, he may soon find out that the NEW value is only $Y. When you get into these rare piece auctions, prices can soar if there is enough interest and people with deep enough pockets. I recently picked up a very nice poster for a very large amount of money. I personally think I got a great deal on it, since two other ones recently sold for a thousand or two more. But those prior winners might be thinking "crap, my poster is worth less now". It's all subjective, and in the end, only one thing matters = what is the poster worth to you, and how much are you willing (and able) to spend on it.

That covers rare and very valuable posters, but for the more common ones that have a detailed price/sale history, I personally do a lot of research and will usually only bid somewhere around what I feel the "market value" currently is. I use EMP and HA for most of the history, and will usually check out eBay too. The problem with movie posters, imho, is that the market for them is somewhat small. There are significantly more people who collect other items like coins, stamps, etc., so those collectibles have much firmer and controlled prices. With posters, and anything with a smaller collecting community, you can see huge shifts in prices, and there really isn't a "price guide", with BUY and SELL prices, like there are with coins. But even with that in mind, I occasionally will 'over spend' on a certain poster because I really want it, or it's in an unusually good condition. I'm very adamant about condition being good, so will almost always pass up items I feel don't meet my criteria (even if the prices are good). You also need to look at price trends, not just the average. If a poster is seeing more and more demand, the price will steadily (or quickly) increase. Less demand means a steady decrease in price.

Take the Star Wars Bootleg for example:
http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/search/star%2520wars%2520bootleg/sort/13/archive.html

That's a perfect example. Sorting from oldest->newest is the same as highest->lowest price. The conditions are fairly the same, and yet in 8 months, there was a steadily price decline from $249 to $81. What caused this? I imagine that, back in February, one of these hadn't shown up ever on EMP, and a lot of people wanted it. So the price went to $249. That was the, then, "market value". But just 12 days later, the price dropped to $132 on the next sale. Why? Maybe because the prior top bidder had his, and the remaining bidders (outside of the new top bidder) wouldn't go any higher. Less than 2 months later and it's down to $106. Three more months and it's $91. Then two months later, I pick up my copy for $81 :D. Will the next one sell for even lower? Maybe, but I'm happy with having paid $81, and would probably have gone up to $100 or slightly more. But you can clearly see a trend where not only are more and more of these coming into the market all of a sudden, but the price (and demand) is dropping. If another one doesn't sell for two more years, it might go back up to $249.

To keep myself in check, a couple days before any big auction I will put together a spreadsheet with everything I want (details included), the recent selling prices and trends, what I *feel* the poster is worth, and my max bid. Once in a while I go crazy and go above my "max", but most of the time I walk away and go after something else. And if I see some idiot who is just bidding whatever it takes to win, I won't play those games (unless it's a very rare piece).

But again, it all comes down to you. And your wallet.

Offline eatbrie

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I will end with this if you got the coin to spend more power to you.

Yes, I got the coin to spend, but it doesn't mean I want to be foolish about it.  It actually works the other way around.  The more money I have to spend, the cheaper I am.  

But don't take me wrong here, I love Bruce's auctions, I buy from him constantly, I see pieces that I've never seen elsewhere and try to get them.  On a weekly basis.  Three times a week.  But I also set a limit on what I think is the right price, and I NEVER go over it.  If I miss, which happens all the time, I KNOW that the piece will come back again, at Bruce's, Heritage, Rich's, Ebay, or thru private collectors (which has become my favorite way to get in demand pieces at the right price.)  There are so many posters I want that I can just go to the next one and forget the one I lost.

And always remember, at the end of the day, posters were not meant for resell.  They are free pieces of advertisement.  We set their prices.

T
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 04:20:30 PM by eatbrie »
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Offline enki

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Take Pulp Fiction, for instance.  I bought a mint advance for $280 6 months ago.  I had wanted one for a long time and refused to pay more than $500.  Not worth a dime more in my opinion.  But I'm cheap.  So I bought 3 Struzan Frankensteins from Mondo for $280 a piece, waited for it to sell north of $700 on Ebay and traded it for a Pulp Fiction.  Therefore, Pulp Fiction cost me $280. 

I respectfully disagree with your logic. It cost you $700. Just because you made a profit on Poster A and used that to purchase Poster B doesn't mean you got it for any less in the end. You could have pocketed the profit and then bought some other $280 poster with $420 left over in your checking account. Sure you can say that your 'out of pocket' expense was only $280, but you still paid more than twice that.

If you buy a lottery ticket for $1 and win $1,000,000, and then go buy a house with all that money, how much did the house cost you? It cost $1,000,000. You might have been very lucky and saw a huge increase in your $1 "investment", but if you didn't buy the house you still would have had $1,000,000 (before taxes).

Offline eatbrie

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I respectfully disagree with your logic. It cost you $700.

The only difference is that I never sell.  NEVER.  So it did cost me $280, because if I had not traded it, it would be at the bottom of a drawer where the other 2 are.
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- "Wishing you the best of luck with All Poster Forum and in encouraging others to appreciate the magical art of film posters" - Martin Scorsese (2009)

Charlie

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Auctions are like vacuums - you think that the poster you are bidding on is the only one in the world...  So my rule is to check ebay before bidding to make sure I am not making and error... One time I got caught up chasing a Dead Pool OS and it goes up to $23 plus $11 ship while Dale has one up right now for $19 plus $6 ship...  Been meaning to see if he would take $15 (up for that Dale?)...  Anyway moral is don't get sucked into the vacuum of an auction be smart...  I am not specifically talking about Brian just in general...  Brian has made many great purchases smart in the long run - they may seem crazy now but in 25 years he will be sitting on the 'star wars' of that era...  So now is not a good time to buy 'Star Wars' for instance while it is a great time to buy 40s and 50s stuff...  The 40 and 50 somethings will soon be retiring and selling their collections or their kids will be selling their collections.  If you want to make good buy Harry Potter and the like for the 40 year stretch when the 10 year olds have mucho cash...
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 04:35:44 PM by Charlie »

Offline holiday

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The point is to pay what you want to pay and be happy with it.  If you start listening to other people, then prepare to have heartburn.

I've paid a lot for posters that I would not allow to slip through my fingers, for fear that there would not be another copy.  Most of the time I'm right.  Sometimes (a la the B1's for Melancholia) I'm wrong.  But I hate nothing more than regret when it comes to posters, and I simply don't have Thierry's level of patience and perseverance when it comes to buying.

In asking the question, are you looking for approval for the price you paid?  If so, you're not going to get it from everyone.  Just be happy and fuck the rest of us and what we have to say about it.
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Holiday


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Offline holiday

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The only difference is that I never sell.  NEVER.  So it did cost me $280, because if I had not traded it, it would be at the bottom of a drawer where the other 2 are.

I have found selling to be cathartic.  I loved selling each and every Mondo print that I've sold recently.  LOVED IT!  
Best regards,

Holiday


Check out my new place!
Two Parrots Gallery

"What happened to all the people?" Mystified MPF Member, February 20, 2010

"I actually quite like the name Peanut."  Andy Neal on MOPO, April 22, 2010

Thierry:  Type the word APF on MPF and it spells: "Banned due to malicious unsolicited private message ".

Charlie to the guy who lost to EatBrie:  You just got "T-boned"!  Happens to the best of us...  Wait until you get "Holidazed"!

Thierry to Silhouette:  Please tell her it's a tiny part of my collection so she doesn't think I'm a total creep.  Oh wait, no, I am a total creep.

Charlie

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I have found selling to be cathartic.  I loved selling each and every Mondo print that I've sold recently.  LOVED IT!  

Hey, want to sell your Protester Print?
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 04:30:42 PM by Charlie »

Offline eatbrie

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At the end of the day, it all comes down to this: If you guys like to spend money, if $1,500 for a 10 year old Matrix poster seems right to you, then you are right.  There is no right or wrong in this hobby.  I choose another route.  I don't consider myself the "price police" but I do feel propelled to tell people that they don't have to spend $1,500.  That they can wait.  It's a matter of choice.  Some people want things now, and yes, wanting it now cost money.  Some people don't care if they get it now, don't mind waiting years to get what they want.  

It is a little bit like buying a Pretty Woman from Dave.  If you want it now, get it from him.  You will get an original poster, it will come to you in mint condition and perfectly packaged.  It will also cost you $400.  Or you can wait, do your research, take the risk of getting a reprint, bad packaging, etc.  And it will cost you $20.  I am a strong proponent of door #2.  But that's me.

T
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 04:33:01 PM by eatbrie »
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Offline eatbrie

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The point is to pay what you want to pay and be happy with it.

 sm1
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Offline eatbrie

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I have found selling to be cathartic.  I loved selling each and every Mondo print that I've sold recently.  LOVED IT!  

Yeah, but then you have to package stuff, buy tubes, go to the Post Office (I DESPISE the Post Office), stand in line, deal with buyers and their complains...  I just can't do it.

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Offline holiday

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Hey, want to sell your Protester Print?

I said MONDO.  The rest I like, especially the few I have from S.F., and most especially that one.
Best regards,

Holiday


Check out my new place!
Two Parrots Gallery

"What happened to all the people?" Mystified MPF Member, February 20, 2010

"I actually quite like the name Peanut."  Andy Neal on MOPO, April 22, 2010

Thierry:  Type the word APF on MPF and it spells: "Banned due to malicious unsolicited private message ".

Charlie to the guy who lost to EatBrie:  You just got "T-boned"!  Happens to the best of us...  Wait until you get "Holidazed"!

Thierry to Silhouette:  Please tell her it's a tiny part of my collection so she doesn't think I'm a total creep.  Oh wait, no, I am a total creep.

Offline holiday

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Yeah, but then you have to package stuff, buy tubes, go to the Post Office (I DESPISE the Post Office), stand in line, deal with buyers and their complains...  I just can't do it.



Oh, I fucking HATE that.  That's why I have such a tough time shipping on a timely basis.  Pulling them, packing them, shipping them ALL SUCKS!  But, overall, I was happy to get rid of them.
Best regards,

Holiday


Check out my new place!
Two Parrots Gallery

"What happened to all the people?" Mystified MPF Member, February 20, 2010

"I actually quite like the name Peanut."  Andy Neal on MOPO, April 22, 2010

Thierry:  Type the word APF on MPF and it spells: "Banned due to malicious unsolicited private message ".

Charlie to the guy who lost to EatBrie:  You just got "T-boned"!  Happens to the best of us...  Wait until you get "Holidazed"!

Thierry to Silhouette:  Please tell her it's a tiny part of my collection so she doesn't think I'm a total creep.  Oh wait, no, I am a total creep.

Offline enki

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On the same token, there are times when people really do pay too much. If a common poster is always available and routinely goes for $50, and someone buys it at the same place (be it eBay, EMP, HA, etc.) in the same condition for $500, then that is clearly a case of someone (or two) being an idiot.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 04:52:30 PM by enki »

Offline Silhouette

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To be frank T is probably the most vocal of all when it comes to prices paid by others and can be quite disparaging (but that is T to a 't') and whilst in some cases prices paid can be jaw dropping unbelievable I have to assume people want it and can afford so will grab it there and then.

Not everyone collects in bulk, not everyone collects because they are completest, not everyone wants to wait five years simply to own a poster they want to put on the wall and not everyone collects movie posters either some may want it as a present for someone else (so are time dependent) or even want it for decor.

At the end all that matters to me about the prices I have just paid for a poster I now own are the pronouns just used.
David


Offline eatbrie

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On the same token, there are times when people really do pay too much. If a common poster is always available and routinely goes for $50, and someone buys it at the same place (be it eBay, EMP, HA, etc.) in the same condition for $500, then that is clearly a case of someone (or two) being an idiot.

Well, I routinely call people idiots, and maybe it's my mistake for doing so.  If you're sitting on $10 million, I don't think you care whether you spend $500 or $50.  Some people just spend without counting.  I actually count every penny I spend.  Not only do I count, but I record it.  I keep a very tight spreadsheet of my spending.  Posters and al.  I've always done that.  I know what I'm worth at any time and I know what I can spend.  I also know that there are zillions of posters I want, and if I spend too much on one, then it's 2 or 3 others I won't get.  So I'd rather get the 2 or 3 and wait on the other.  Yes, there are idiots out there, plenty of them, but there are also others who just don't care.
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Offline eatbrie

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To be frank T is probably the most vocal of all when it comes to prices paid by others and can be quite disparaging (but that is T to a 't') and whilst in some cases prices paid can be jaw dropping unbelievable I have to assume people want it and can afford so will grab it there and then.

You know, David, I always call it as I see it.  If someone spends what I believe is too much on a poster, or if someone tries to sell something for more than I believe it's worth (like that Aussie Halloween 3), I will say it.  I believe it's the purpose of this forum.  I think I have been collecting long enough now to have a pretty clear picture of prices.  This said, people don't have to listen to me.  Do as you please.  But I believe it's always good to know all the alternatives before you act on something.

T
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 05:14:08 PM by eatbrie »
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Offline Silhouette

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Yes T I know you call it as you see it I have no problems with that at all but everyone has 20/20 vision when viewing through hindsight glasses.
David


Offline eatbrie

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That's because you sell.  Most sellers don't like collectors to tell them that their gear can be found for half what they're asking.  I'm not pointing a finger at you, I don't know how much you sell your stuff for, nor am I blaming you for not liking it, but that's the general consensus. 
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Offline Silhouette

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That's because you sell.  Most sellers don't like collectors to tell them that their gear can be found for half what they're asking.  I'm not pointing a finger at you, I don't know how much you sell your stuff for, nor am I blaming you for not liking it, but that's the general consensus. 

Most collectors are sellers T. You just happen to be the (very) rare collector who doesn't.

Selling (posters) is part of my definition of being a collector of posters, because even if you trade a poster for another you are actually a "seller" because you will have had to value on your own to complete the trade - otherwise we'd all be trading BATs for Pretty Womans.  :D

Yes I sell (and trade) posters and frankly almost every single person in this forum sells posters too - I don't eBay and I am not trying to 'supplement' my income per se. I built a website to allow me to showcase the fact I can build (poster) commerce websites and that I will build (and host) a poster website for cash and posters. As a result of having my website I now get offered posters all the time and I also sell posters from it all the time too however the small income I earn from selling posters on my website (which I rarely promote in here) and as as I have always said allows me to buy more posters which either go into my NFS collection or into the online shop.

Because there is no international RRP for posters so the prices I sell them for is based on lots of factors but if there is one thing I know about setting prices you never please all the people all the time - even when you give it away (which I have done, in here).
David