Japanese B2 Eirin Marks - Need Help Authenticating

[cmcdoge]

Hey folks! First time poster here.

I've collected a few japanese posters over the years, and its a bit of a crap shoot on finding a seller not selling reproductions. Theres claims that the Eirin mark should always be crisp, and claims that there are printing differences between shops that can cause to a level of blured edges.

My question here is: I have poster (top middle) that im comparing to 2 others of the same poster, same size. The left seems less blurry, and the right seems crisp. Has anyone ever confirmed different quality levels on Japanese Eirin marks? I'm likely going to return my poster (top middle) as it just doesn't look right to me.

[Tob]

I just leafed through 30 or so B2s in my flat file and based on that sample, they seem to vary. Some are pin sharp, but some are blurry and have numbers that are quite hard to read or lines that fade in and out.

I've never compared across the same poster though - which poster is the image from? If I have it, I can check.

[cmcdoge]

Yeah sure thing, and thanks for the reply.

It’s a B2 Kiki's Delivery Service, from Studio Ghibli. (Attached a stock photo)

I'm also attaching a microscope close up of the actual Eirin Mark on the poster I received. The dot matrix/rosette pattern looks correct in terms of the printing technology thats used, but the edges around the white are so messy. Thats the concerning part to me. Usually when they print in color layers, there are not artifacts in the white as nothing is suppose to be printed there. That would indicate to me a printer copying a scan imperfectly. I dunno, I'm definitely not an expert on this stuff, just guessing based on things I've read.

Appreciate the help!

[Tob]

I suspected it was a Kiki's Delivery Service. I do have that poster, I'll try and find it and take some photos of my copy for comparison...

[cmcdoge]

Thanks! appreciate the help here.

[Hicks77]

cmcdoge; you may want to check out this thread about reprints being sold by the Ghibli Museum.
If you purchased it recently for a "low price", it might be one those posters.  (Hope not though!)

http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,16241.msg251732.html#msg251732

[cmcdoge]

Oh thanks for the link there! That is my concern that there is no quality control on this stuff, and Ghibli (or some other shop) is just printing indistinguishable replicas at this point for profit. It used to be that the odd sizing of the Japanese B2 posters was enough to prove authenticity, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

I paid a few hundred for the piece (from what I see theatrical Ghibli posters range from $200-800) and the seller has flawless reviews with hundreds of sales. The claim is that it was a family run theater that is selling off its posters, but I'm doubtful of that story at this point. Paper stock feels a bit too thick, and the print quality seems good until you scrutinize it under a microscope.

I was finding a lack of information online on how to determine Japanese theatrical release poster authenticity, so I figured I would join this forum and start the convo here. Try and dredge up as many details as I can.

[Hicks77]

Are you buying from a seller based in Japan?

[cmcdoge]

Yeah the seller is based in japan

[Tob]

Tried to find my Kiki B2 earlier - found B2s for Spirited Away, Nausicaa, Mononoke, Grave of the Fireflies and Laputa, but couldn’t find Kiki! I suspect I’ve put it in a sleeve with some B1s and it’s hidden away, sorry about that. Do you need comparison photos for any of those? Or was it just Kiki that you’re worried about?

If I had to guess, I’d say all 3 in your photo are probably legit, especially if the paper stock is similar between the 3.

[cmcdoge]

Yeah go ahead and show some close ups of what you got. I think several of the Ghibli posters use very similar Eirin marks. So should be a decent comparrison.

[crowzilla]

Don't have a Kiki's on hand to compare with, but the Eirin marks should be printed the same within all examples of the same title.
There are only a handful of titles that comes to mind where there are known original examples on different paper quality (and all are 50 years-ish old, none of them are newer titles).
Don't mind some printing in the white areas as long as it is crisp and consistent.
Here's another newer Eirin close-up that is definitely authentic where there is color in the white space, but still obvious as being a crisp offset print example.

[cmcdoge]

hey crowzilla,

thanks for uploaded some close ups for comparisson. Your Eirin marks seem to be nice and crisp. Even though theres a dot matrix layer over the white, the actaul line of white is unobstructed.

[cmcdoge]

I decided to go pull some of my other posters out of storage to document the differences.

In order of appearance: ghost in the shell, Howls moving castle, on your mark, princess mononoke, castle in the sky, my neighbor totoro, and another kikis delivery service (different art, missing numbers?)

They're all quite crisp, and even the more blury ones you can read the lettering easily. Kinda night and day compared to the poster I received.

[Tob]

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[Tob]

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[Tob]

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[Tob]

^Some close ups from my B2s

I'm annoyed I can't find Kiki's, it would have been good to compare. If I stumble upon it, I'll update the thread with a photo.

For the Kiki you have doubts over, does the paper feel the same?

[cmcdoge]

Thanks for all those uploads Tob!

Super helpful. I feel like even between all the varience there, the lines around and in the Eirin marks are nice. There's no artificats inside the white from lower quality copies.

I ended up getting a comparisson on another Kikis (its in a frame, so can only see the top). The first photo is a real kikis stamp, and the second/third is the poster I recieved.

[cmcdoge]

One thing that becomes clear comparing all these authentic posters to what I received, is the artifacting in copies (tiny dots the printer adds in a copy). theres tiny ink dots in the white where there shouldnt be on the poster I received.

To bring this to an end, I requested to return the poster, and sure enough they've ghosted me.

Luckily this was an Ebay purchase, so its a waiting game for the money back guarantee to kick in.

[cmcdoge]

I do really want to thank everyone that posted here, you were all so helpful!

[wormie]

Glad to hear that you were able to get your money back. I am actually kind of relieved that your Kiki has a poorer Erin mark compared with the original one. If the one you got is from the batch reprint Ghibli released recently in the box, I think it is great news. I would be more worried if the new reprints have indistinguishable Erin marks.

Having said that, I really hope that I can get hold of the reprints so that we can do some proper comparisons. But even the reprints’ price is out of reach.

I am just glad that Ghibli is not reprinting them in B1 format for now. Hopefully never.


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[cmcdoge]

yeah, the fact they reprinted the B2s is pretty upsetting, but I think even those are not up to the quality of what they were in the 80's and 90's.

You can definitely get a reproduction for like 100 bucks on eBay (they claim its real), but not sure how much you're curiosity is worth

My guess is that whatever printing plates/image/proof they originally used (especially for the Kiki's in the 80s) is just gone. So, everything that’s come after is some sort of aproximation or Hi-Res scan. Unfortunately for reprinters, there’s no scanner out there that does it perfect. it will always leave some sort of artifacting along a white line (digital scanning), where the original 3 color layer printing process leaves crisp lines.

Who knows, maybe once AI image generation gets better we'll all be in trouble 

[cmcdoge]

Well to cap it all off, the seller ghosted eBay as well. This means I got my refund, and I get to keep the fake poster. So now I have a reference poster I guess?