Author Topic: How to Grade Vintage Posters  (Read 7614 times)

Offline Harry Caul

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How to Grade Vintage Posters
« on: May 03, 2018, 02:23:14 PM »


So you have a vintage poster and don’t know where to start?
Do not panic, you are not alone!


Please see this link for the complete article: http://marqueeposter.com/how-to-grade-vintage-posters/

I was fed up with the multitude of grading systems used by various dealers and auction houses -- especially when Jon Warren took the time to make a standardized grading system for movie posters way back in 1985!  Of course, if you've used them you know his grades are very wordy and you pretty much need to be an expert before you can accurately grade even a single poster. I took Jon's criteria and changed the layout from a grade-centric approach to a flaw-centric approach. It is now possible to trace a particular flaw (e.g. corner crease) over a range of grades depending on the severity.  Just make a list of your flaws, check the grade associated with each, tally them up and boom -- done!  This means collectors and non-collectors alike can quickly and accurately grade nearly any vintage poster in only minutes.

TERMINATOR UK QUAD EXAMPLE



Now simply start with your worst flaws and start looking them up on the scale:



I estimate a total of (5) flaws rated at C7-or-higher:

  • slight ink loss on folds –> C8 = “slight, some ink loss ok”
  • corner crease in upper right –> C7 = “4 or less (3″ max)”
  • slight mis-fold along left edge –> C7 = “slight, ink loss ok”
  • minor handling/surface wear –> C7 = “minor”
  • slight foxing on verso –> C8 = “slight, must be described”

For a C7 grade, you get a maximum of 8 flaws (3rd row in the PDF).  So in this case, the grade is simply C7 -- EASY & DONE!


Below is a high resolution, printable PDF of the newly revised grading scale.  Please enjoy with my compliments!


Offline jayn_j

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Re: How to Grade Vintage Posters
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2018, 02:43:32 PM »
why is # of allowable defects greater for C8-C9 than for C8?
Is # of staple holes the number of pairs?  staple holes come in pairs.
-Jay-

Offline Harry Caul

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Re: How to Grade Vintage Posters
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2018, 02:53:13 PM »
Because the severity/description of the flaws change between C8-C9 and C8. 

Offline CSM

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Re: How to Grade Vintage Posters
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2018, 03:17:03 PM »
Nice work Matt!

I must admit using the "quick eye test" I would have graded the quad at a C8-9 probably but it becomes clear how it could be considered a C7 using the chart.
Chris

Offline crowzilla

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Re: How to Grade Vintage Posters
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2018, 04:28:57 PM »
It would be so much easier if everyone adapted the 1-10 scale.
Numbers are consistent and mean something, words not so much.
The Online Reference to Japanese Sci-Fi Posters:
www.Kaijuposters.com

Offline Harry Caul

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Re: How to Grade Vintage Posters
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2018, 04:42:43 PM »
Is # of staple holes the number of pairs?  staple holes come in pairs.

Warren never specified, but the fact that he broke them out separately from regular pin holes leads me to believe they are assumed to come in pairs.  I definitely treat them that way.

Nice work Matt!

I must admit using the "quick eye test" I would have graded the quad at a C8-9 probably but it becomes clear how it could be considered a C7 using the chart.

The Warren Scale is very conservative.  And frankly, I prefer to grade conservatively so I don't have any unhappy customers.  A grading system is only useful if it is consistent.  Give the same poster to three different people and ask them to grade it with my scale.  I hoping that with the way I've laid everything out, the deviation should be no more than a half grade or so.  Now try that with other grading systems! 

It would be so much easier if everyone adapted the 1-10 scale.
Numbers are consistent and mean something, words not so much.

+ 1 million!!!!

However, if they aren't based on the same criteria, definitions, and severity, then two different 1-10 grading scales will still produce inconsistent results.  The fact that Warren made this scale in 1985 and we are still arguing over it is just absurd in my opinion. 

Offline erik1925

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Re: How to Grade Vintage Posters
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2018, 05:02:24 PM »
It would be so much easier if everyone adapted the 1-10 scale.
Numbers are consistent and mean something, words not so much.

 thumbsup.gif


-Jeff

Offline crowzilla

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Re: How to Grade Vintage Posters
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2018, 05:09:32 PM »
However, if they aren't based on the same criteria, definitions, and severity, then two different 1-10 grading scales will still produce inconsistent results.  The fact that Warren made this scale in 1985 and we are still arguing over it is just absurd in my opinion.

Totally agree - but of course most dealers are self-serving. It took forever to move auctions away from the A-B-C grades, because if you only have 3 categories it's easy to group defects , be lazy and not really grade a poster. 

It's one of the things I like about Heritage, they use the 1-10 - you might think that their 7 is a 6 or vice versa, but they are fairly consistent with it. 

Morrie's auction in Cinevent still uses A,B,C as he's extremely old school and it's no surprise that tons of undisclosed restoration turns up in them, and don't even get me started on people that only use word graded. Totally useless.
The Online Reference to Japanese Sci-Fi Posters:
www.Kaijuposters.com

Offline Simes

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Re: How to Grade Vintage Posters
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2018, 06:58:24 PM »
Fair play to 'Harry' for kicking this off.

But, there are those out there that apply a different set of rules for a poster of the 40's to those of the 2010's.  Expectations for varying eras.

For me, a bloody great big image that you can pour over covers a multitude of explanation sins.  And then, you can bin the grading system altogether.

Offline erik1925

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Re: How to Grade Vintage Posters
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2018, 07:26:42 PM »
Fair play to 'Harry' for kicking this off.

But, there are those out there that apply a different set of rules for a poster of the 40's to those of the 2010's.  Expectations for varying eras.

For me, a bloody great big image that you can pour over covers a multitude of explanation sins.  And then, you can bin the grading system altogether.

So true, Simon.

Nothing like a well lit, clear, sharp, hi res and Supersize image to be able to examine and explore, in making one's own determination about a poster's condition.


-Jeff

Offline AdamCarterJones

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Re: How to Grade Vintage Posters
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2018, 07:58:44 PM »
Great work, Matt!

I disagree with regards to binning the grading system, Simes, because some buyers are not like us.
The grading system helps a new buyer and helps when they come to sell an item.

I created this comparison years ago from a lot of research and discussion with poster, art, toy and memorabilia collectors and sellers (including auctioneers), and use it on my websites today in the help sections:



I currently use the 6-Point Grading System myself - obviously "Mint (M)" and "Near Mint (NM)" are replaced by "Very Fine (VF)" and "Fine (F)" for paper-related items because technically-speaking a piece of paper cannot be classed as "mint" or "near mint". I also spent a lot of time on Jon Warren's guide, even speaking to him about it, and making it simpler to read and work from.

However, Matt, what you have done with it is brilliant  notworthy.gif
It's making me rethink my decision to completely ditch it!

The biggest problem the C10 system has though is with the public. For them, and I don't mean us nutters here, it is inherently complicated, which is why many businesses use a 5 or 6-point method. I'm an advocate of the C10 way, but I just don't think posters will ever have a standardised grading system in the same way as comics because of the retail aspect of posters and prints these days.

For me, and where I want to end up, the C10 method will probably be more of a hindrance as my Gallery will form only part of my business.
I might end up using what you have done Matt as a great tool, along with my own observations, and converting the relevant score to a grade commensurate with the 6-Point system, so thank you for what you have created  cheers
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 08:21:04 PM by AdamCarter1985 »
Best wishes,
Adam

Offline Harry Caul

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Re: How to Grade Vintage Posters
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2018, 08:47:49 AM »
Thanks for the comments everyone.  To be perfectly honest, I made this spreadsheet for my own use almost two years ago.  I knew I wanted to use the Warren 10-point scale for Marquee Poster (for the reasons Sean mentioned above).  But even as experienced as I was, I found myself struggling with each grade -- hunting and pecking around the various grades to try to find a match.  So as frustrating as it was for me, I could only imagine how daunting it would be for a newb. 

I'm sure the spreadsheet I made still *looks* daunting at first glance.  But in practice it takes very little time to start using it successfully.  The majority of collectible posters will only have a handful of flaws and they can be quickly matched with a grade. 

I now get accurate and consistent grades WAY MORE QUICKLY than I ever used to.  Figured it was time I shared it...

Offline Stefano

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Re: How to Grade Vintage Posters
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2018, 02:36:44 AM »
When selling, I will always retain the "Excellent" grade on the scale between NM and VF.
That's how it was when I was growing up with the early days of eBay, and it worked fine for me then.

To be honest, I always appreciated the lack of banality in condition grading of posters that is present in some other collector hobbies like comic books and coins.  There can be so much subtle nuance in grading, I would drive my perfectionist brain out of its head with the pressure to be so precise in the face of what is oftentimes a subjective assessment.  This coming from a very occasional seller, dealing with movie posters of relatively modest value.

Offline timelessmoviemagic

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Re: How to Grade Vintage Posters
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2018, 02:00:14 PM »
Thanks for this Matt. I did consider doing a grading system but if most people stuck to the same system it will only benefit the hobby.

What I've done is print this off in a PDF, laminate it and use a marker pen to highlight the flaws when describing a poster. It's then very visual and you don't have to keep referring back to the PC. (And easy to wipe off and start again ready for the next poster)

Marc
vintage movie posters - http://www.timelessmoviemagic.co.uk/

Offline Harry Caul

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Re: How to Grade Vintage Posters
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2018, 08:20:30 PM »
That’s a great idea Marc!