French posters: Printers and dates (from 1965 on)

[eatbrie]

I've been asked this question many times.  So in an attempt to be helpful (which is not in my DNA, but I'm in a good mood today), here's the list I use to determine a poster's release date.

A lot of French posters have been reissued over the years.  The only way to know if you have an original or a re-release is to look at the printer's name at the bottom of the poster.  For instance, "For a Few Dollars More" was originally printed by St. Martin, Paris.  However, there is an identical print that states St. Martin, Asnieres.  It is because the printer moved from Paris to Asnieres (in the suburbs of Paris) and the movie was re-released in the late 70s.  "The Deer Hunter" was originally printed by SE Lalande.  Then the movie was re-released in the mid 80s and the printer reads SA Lalande.  Again, same poster, one is original, the other is a re-release.

Here's the list:

CINEMATOGRAPHIE FRANCAISE
1925-1950
CINEMATO
1950-1964

Note: Both companies seem to overlap between 1947 and 1955.  The oldest Cinemato I have seen is from 1947, the last Cinematographie is 1955.

ICP
Ends in 1960

RICHIER-LAUGIER
1927-1978 (much less after 1962)

BEDOS
Ends in 1962

HENON
Ends in 1964

LA LITHOTYP
Ends in 1965

AFFICHES ET PUBLICITE
Ends in 1969

GAILLARD
Ends in 1969

LALANDE
1956-1969 = Ateliers Lalande
1969-1971 = Lalande-Courbet
1971-1976 = Ste Exp Ets Lalande Courbet
1977-1982 = S.E. Lalande Courbet
1983-1986 = S.A. Lalande Courbet

ST MARTIN
1955-1975 = Paris
1975-1977 = Asnieres

CINE POSTERS (REPRINTS)
Cine Poster = 1980s;

SONIS
Sonis is not a printer but a distributor of posters from the late 60s on, which means that you will find Sonis' name on a poster along with St. Martin or Lalande.  It doesn't mean you have a reprint.  What's most important is the printer's name.  If it corresponds to the movie's year of release, you're in the clear.  But if it's a 70s movie without the printer's name and only Sonis, you have a reprint.  Sonis was legit until the end of the 80s, at which time they decided to make extra dough by reprinting posters, but without the original printer's name.  They reproduced some of the most successful movies, along with Cine Posters.  They also reproduced US OS close to their original size, along with Zig-Zag.

In the late 80s, Sonis replaced Lalande as the official printer/distributor of French posters.

Hopefully, this list will help some of you.

T

[CSM]

Thierry, I know this post is for 1965 on - but what is your opinion on the Creature from the Black Lagoon?

Do you also believe it is a circa 1962 release?

[eatbrie]

From my understanding, yes.  I posted the 55 version earlier.  The movie had a very small original release, and when it started gaining traction, had a bigger one in 62.  However, the poster you displayed is usually considered to be from the 1st release, even though it's not.  Amazing poster, BTW.  Is the printer Affiches et Publicite?

T

[brude]

Outstanding info, Thierry.  These are the details that drive collectors crazy.

BTW, Chris, that's a stupid-looking Gill-man 
You should sell it me...now....

[Zorba]

Great post T!

I must ask though...What if it says  S. E. Lalande-Courbet  91-Wissous?.....What is the Wissous for? Where the original was done?

I have some posters that are supposed to be early 70's but according to your info they are late 70s early 80's.

[eatbrie]

Yes, I'm thinking a lot of people are going to discover they own 2nd or 3rd releases.  Like I said, in most cases, the artwork is identical.

Don't worry about Wissous.  It is the location, 91 is the department code (France is made of 100 departments).  What matters for the late Lalande are SE or SA.

T

[CSM]

From my understanding, yes.  I posted the 55 version earlier.  The movie had a very small original release, and when it started gaining traction, had a bigger one in 62.  However, the poster you displayed is usually considered to be from the 1st release, even though it's not.  Amazing poster, BTW.  Is the printer Affiches et Publicite?

T

Thanks T.

And yes, it says: "Affiches et Publicite - IMP. M. Landais 11.R.Castex-Paris4...Visa de Censure No641"

[CSM]

Outstanding info, Thierry.  These are the details that drive collectors crazy.

BTW, Chris, that's a stupid-looking Gill-man 
You should sell it me...now....

Hmmm...you should never call the Gill-man stupid looking.  He is very sensitive about the plastic surgery he underwent in Creature Walks Among Us!

[erik1925]

Chris, your CREATURE is for sure a 1962 reissue. The Visa de censure number on the left border, near the printer's info indicates this. VISA number began to be used after 1960. Here's a closeup image of the Visa number (641).

Jeff

[CSM]

Thanks Jeff.  Appreciate the info. 

[Zorba]

What matters for the late Lalande are SE or SA.

This thread has been VERY helpful to me. It has not only (re)dated a couple of my rereleases as later but kept me from buying others.

Though most images on the web are too small to read the printers info, you do find that out asking the seller.

Maybe worthy of a sticky? It will help other newbies like me. There are some slick dudes out there 

[Charlie]

OK T...  This printer is not on your list:  Richier-Laugier 3, rue Barthelemy Paris



The Nun's Story I got appears 1st release... Say it is so T!

http://abideposters.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/IMG_0035-1024x675.jpg

[eatbrie]

There are many other printers that I haven't listed.  But you're good on your Mascii.  Nice poster, btw.

T

[Zorba]

How bout sticky this thread?

It just keeps on helping me and yeah I know I could write it down but the sticky might help some other clueless sap besides me.

[eatbrie]

Glad you brought this thread up...  I forgot about it.

NOTE TO BRUCE - Bruce, you just sold a 3:10 to Yuma French poster by Guy Gérard Noël.  The poster is indeed by Guy Gérard Noël.  "D'Après Guy Gérard Noël," 99% of the time, means that the poster is a re-release of an original that should only read the name of the artist.  For legal reasons that I don't know anything about, they added "D'Après" ("From") in front of the name of the artist, which means it is a re-release.

One of the reasons I was so excited to get my French Gone With the Wind poster is that it is an extremely rare 1st release (almost never seen before).  In most cases, when you can find this poster, it will say "D'Après Roger Soubie".  Check my 2 examples below...  Mine and the poster L"Imagerie is selling...





Check the top right of the poster.  You will notice the difference in the signature.  Also, the printing quality of the "D'Après" posters is usually lower.

Now, it does happen that an original states "D'Après..."  That's the 1%.  I don't know why, but I've seen it.  That's what makes collecting French posters so difficult.  Between the name of the printers, and the name of the artists, it all becomes very confusing.  So many collectors own re-releases thinking that they have the original.  I didn't know that my Gone With the Wind existed until I found it.

I'm trying to find out whether your Yuma is an original or a re-release.  If it's part of the 99%  

But I think this info can be good for anyone who collects French posters.

T

[eatbrie]

How bout sticky this thread?

It just keeps on helping me and yeah I know I could write it down but the sticky might help some other clueless sap besides me.

Done.

[Bruce]

The only time I have ever seen "d'apres" on an original poster is when it is for a re-make of a movie where the French artist imitated the poster of the earlier version.

I would bet anything this 3:10 to Yuma is a re-release, as you suggest.

What frustrates me SO MUCH is that I have instructed my guys over and over to ALWAYS list these posters signed "d'apres" as re-releases, and they got the signed part right but didn't list it as a re-release, so now I have to cancel it and re-auction it, and that shouldn't have happened.

Thanks much for pointing it out, T. It saves us having to get it back after it was sent.

[eatbrie]

Bruce, your guys also said that it wasn't by Noël, but it is.

[Bruce]

I have received mixed info on this. Most people I respect say that  "d'apres Guy Gerard Noel", means that the unknown French artist created the poster in the style of the original French poster by Guy Gerard Noel, but that Noel did not actually do this art.

Since d'apres means after, wouldn't that make sense?

I guess you say it means Guy Gerard Noel did it after his own original, but why would he even do another one?

I will ask other French experts.

[eatbrie]

I guarantee you that Noël did the art.  You can check Choko's book for reference (I just did, the poster is on p.99).  D'Apres on French posters doesn't mean that someone else did the art, it means that the art was reprinted.

Oh, and Noël did not touch the reprint.  It is the exact same poster than the original, albeit the printing quality.  Someone just added D'Apres for legal reasons.

T

[Bruce]

I will let you know what the others say, and if they agree with you I will change how I word this.

[Tang Lung in Rome]

Dunno bout printers , all I know bout Deer Hunter "pre-Oscar" , no Oscars shown and "post-Oscar" , Oscars shown.....just like with Rocky 

[Pronay]

so the censure text indicates a re-issue?



versus



top would be original, bottom reissue?

[erik1925]

so the censure text indicates a re-issue?



versus



top would be original, bottom reissue?

Both your posters have the Visa de Censure number 404 on them.

Censure numbers began to appear on French posters in the early 1960s, regardless of whether it was a first release or a later RR. 

[Pronay]

ah, got it.  I wonder what the difference between the two indicates though.