Author Topic: Mrs. Fiske Warren (Gretchen Osgood) the Mother of Poster Collecting ?  (Read 17667 times)

Offline Crazy Vick

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When I first started collecting a reputable seller on ebay auctioned about ten very old war posters from France and England.  They were all on very old linen, and about half had a certificate of authenticity.  I was real wet behind the ears at the time and don't recall much about the certificate itself other than they looking legit (because those are impossible to fake, right?) The posters were said to be part of a 1915 exhibition and sale by Mrs. Fiske Warren, or Gretchen Osgood, an actress, singer and poet born in Boston from an affluent family.  You can find more info on wikipedia, including a portrait of her and her daughter.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Osgood_Warren

With Renaissance blood in her veins perhaps Ms. Osgood endeavored to gather, exhibit and sell 200 war posters (already hard to come by in 1915) in December 1915 in Copley Hall, Boston.  The purpose was to raise funds for the hundreds of thousands of displaced Belgian refugees living in London, who would be put to work knitting wool clothing for the men at the front.  Here is a postcard announcing the exhibit.


The Harvard Crimson has both notices from 1915 announcing the sale.  
Dec 2, 1915  http://www.thecrimson.com/article/1915/12/2/mrs-warren-to-exhibit-posters-pa/
Dec 10, 1915  http://www.thecrimson.com/article/1915/12/10/exhibition-and-sale-of-war-posters/

I recently found online, evidence that Ms Osgood maintained an interest after this sale, loaning 99 posters to the Worcester Art Museum (Massachusetts) in June 1916, probably some of the leftovers from December 1915, still for sale. There's a really interesting Foreword with quotes from Mrs. Osgood herself about their collectable importance..  In the list of the 99 some of you war poster buffs might recognize a few.   https://archive.org/stream/exhibitionoffren00worc#page/n0/mode/2up

The two that I managed to snag years ago were not among those that had certificates, which might explain why they went for a little less and I was able to win the auction. Anyway, they are not on this list of the leftover 99 from 1916, and I like to think that adds cred to the story that they did come from the original sale in December 1915 (naysayers - go fuck yourselves)

They are 31 x 47 inches, on very old linen with the original tacks used to hang them.  Despite their age, they are in remarkable shape.  They both advertise the Journee du Poilu, more or less designated days organized by the French government where civilians could collect funds to support their loved ones coming home, in this case for Christmas.  Involving kids and families in the war is propaganda at its best and not exclusive to France of course.  The Poilus (or the Hairys) was a colloquial French term for veteran soldiers.  These were organized months in advanced, which would explain how this poster might have been in Ms. Osgoode’s sale in the US before the event actually took place on Christmas.   The second poster has a medal in the top right corner which were also minted before the event, as tokens for those who contributed money.  The same poster was also used for the October campaign that year.
 





Thanks for reading!
« Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 12:51:23 AM by Crazy Vick »

Offline erik1925

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Re: Mrs. Fiske Warren (Gretchen Osgood) the Mother of Poster Collecting ?
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2016, 12:26:47 AM »
Cool pieces there, Vick. And what a great background story about them and why they were made.  thumbsup.gif

What's the name of the printer on the lower left corner? Looks like the same lithographer for both.

And both look to have been signed by their respective artists. That's so great. What are their names? The top one looks like "A. Willette"

And it would be interesting to try and learn how many copies of these 2 posters were originally printed.

Edit:

artist 1 is Adolphe Willette  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolphe_Willette
« Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 01:03:20 AM by erik1925 »


-Jeff

Offline erik1925

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Re: Mrs. Fiske Warren (Gretchen Osgood) the Mother of Poster Collecting ?
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2016, 01:30:36 AM »
Vick... i did a quick bit of looking and found a number of these posters that have been offered or sold in the past, and the interesting thing is that the handful I found were all linen backed, at the time of their sale (or auction) and some had the same attached grommets or hangers as well.

Prices ranged from $60.00 (realized) to some galleries asking as much as $900.00 for their copy. One copy had a price of $1450.00

I also found a number of the soldier poster that were also/are also offered, that were also backed on what is now, old linen.

Maybe these posters were printed and sent to a backer, who also added the hangers, from the get go, so people could hang them in their homes right after buying them. Adding a visual sense of solidarity or that kind of bond, with it on the wall, asap.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 02:40:22 AM by erik1925 »


-Jeff

Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Mrs. Fiske Warren (Gretchen Osgood) the Mother of Poster Collecting ?
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2016, 02:48:19 AM »
And it would be interesting to try and learn how many copies of these 2 posters were originally printed.

war propaganda posters have the highest print runs.
one reason is that these posters are not printed for commercial reasons and the are printed by the government and unlike movie posters, which need to be returned every week or something as the 35mm print makes it's way from theatre to theatre, war posters were made to be displayed as long as need be. Also, unlike movie posters, they were made for pasting up onto every available surface, which is why most of them are rather scarce. The math of print runs and actual need is one reason why the most common war posters are from 1918 and 1944/45. Wars end, but due to bureaucratic rules, they can't be destroyed so easily (you have to file paperwork, and who wanted to bother?), so there were warehouses of posters as late as the 1980s that I am aware of.


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Mirosae

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Re: Mrs. Fiske Warren (Gretchen Osgood) the Mother of Poster Collecting ?
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2016, 06:05:01 AM »
This is very interesting reading thanks    Rich  for the information and  Vick[/b  ] for bringing this up. She had an excellent taste.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 06:05:54 AM by Mirosae »

Offline erik1925

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Re: Mrs. Fiske Warren (Gretchen Osgood) the Mother of Poster Collecting ?
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2016, 09:37:54 PM »
war propaganda posters have the highest print runs.
one reason is that these posters are not printed for commercial reasons and the are printed by the government and unlike movie posters, which need to be returned every week or something as the 35mm print makes it's way from theatre to theatre, war posters were made to be displayed as long as need be. Also, unlike movie posters, they were made for pasting up onto every available surface, which is why most of them are rather scarce. The math of print runs and actual need is one reason why the most common war posters are from 1918 and 1944/45. Wars end, but due to bureaucratic rules, they can't be destroyed so easily (you have to file paperwork, and who wanted to bother?), so there were warehouses of posters as late as the 1980s that I am aware of.



Rich, why would a number of these posters (such as I found in past sales/listings) have been backed so early on with the added hanger hooks? Any idea?

Did the govt maybe have a number sent out to be finished off this way, before they went out into the public, so they could be easily hung?

I think the line of hanger loops is a nice added touch along the top edge, surviving all these years later, too, plus those that were backed, look like they were never folded to begin with. The Willette poster reminds me of an etching.  thumbsup.gif





-Jeff

Offline Crazy Vick

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Re: Mrs. Fiske Warren (Gretchen Osgood) the Mother of Poster Collecting ?
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2016, 11:03:31 PM »
I also found a number of the soldier poster that were also/are also offered, that were also backed on what is now, old linen.

I'm not so sure about that.  I've watched a number come and go over the years and the majority are not old linenback jobs, nor do they have the hangers.  They are mostly folded paper copies.  This goes for most of the WW1 era French ones. The two I bought in particular have come around for sale, yet they are among the less common ones of the "poilu" series. 

In any case, the provenance that I referred to is mainly tied to the authenticity certificates that were available in the other lots. Unfortunately I didn't get a copy that would allow for more scrutiny.  As Rich said they were printed in high numbers, but also with the French penchant for art and history, its not surprising to see many were kept to this day despite 2 world wars. I would be curious as to the origin of the hangers though.

Now back to Mrs Fiske Warren and the subject of my post... who pioneered the movie poster craze? Does anyone recall posters being clearly identified as art/collectible before 1915?

Offline erik1925

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Re: Mrs. Fiske Warren (Gretchen Osgood) the Mother of Poster Collecting ?
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2016, 11:15:22 PM »
I'm not so sure about that.  I've watched a number come and go over the years and the majority are not old linenback jobs, nor do they have the hangers.  They are mostly folded paper copies.  This goes for most of the WW1 era French ones. The two I bought in particular have come around for sale, yet they are among the less common ones of the "poilu" series. 

In any case, the provenance that I referred to is mainly tied to the authenticity certificates that were available in the other lots. Unfortunately I didn't get a copy that would allow for more scrutiny.  As Rich said they were printed in high numbers, but also with the French penchant for art and history, its not surprising to see many were kept to this day despite 2 world wars. I would be curious as to the origin of the hangers though.

Now back to Mrs Fiske Warren and the subject of my post... who pioneered the movie poster craze? Does anyone recall posters being clearly identified as art/collectible before 1915?

I will send you the links to the ones I found that are from this same series and were also backed then, Vick. A paper copy/repro (backed or not) should not sell for $1450.00 USD (unless someone got swindled).

But to your question... I have this book I posted about, called "Picture Posters" by Charles Hiatt, published in 1895, about posters and their collectible nature, even back then. Especially in France when the large, beautiful posters by the likes of Cheret caught the public eye.  thumbsup.gif

http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,2387.0.html




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Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Mrs. Fiske Warren (Gretchen Osgood) the Mother of Poster Collecting ?
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2016, 11:35:06 PM »
Rich, why would a number of these posters (such as I found in past sales/listings) have been backed so early on with the added hanger hooks? Any idea?

Did the govt maybe have a number sent out to be finished off this way, before they went out into the public, so they could be easily hung?

I think the line of hanger loops is a nice added touch along the top edge, surviving all these years later, too, plus those that were backed, look like they were never folded to begin with. The Willette poster reminds me of an etching.  thumbsup.gif

linenbacking & corner grommets were a very common way of hanging posters even back when the posters would be in circulation. sometimes they were hung outside, underneath a marquee, over at the concert hall, the community center, the Irish-American club, the Italian-American club, the German-American club, the Dutch-American club, during parades, county fairs.. very common.  did I forget the American-American club?

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Offline Crazy Vick

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Re: Mrs. Fiske Warren (Gretchen Osgood) the Mother of Poster Collecting ?
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2016, 09:06:13 AM »
I will send you the links to the ones I found that are from this same series and were also backed then, Vick. A paper copy/repro (backed or not) should not sell for $1450.00 USD (unless someone got swindled).


Jeff if you are saying that all of these are older backing jobs, or should be, otherwise they are repros or worthless, I have to disagree.  I don't dispute that you've found several that were also older backing jobs - I've also seen several - but the majority as I said are paper, and they are 100% authentic. 

Anyways, thanks for the link.  Its an interesting book that you've got there. Does it make reference to war/political posters? 

Offline DekeThornton

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Re: Mrs. Fiske Warren (Gretchen Osgood) the Mother of Poster Collecting ?
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2016, 10:19:19 AM »
I'm not so sure about that.  I've watched a number come and go over the years and the majority are not old linenback jobs, nor do they have the hangers.  They are mostly folded paper copies.  This goes for most of the WW1 era French ones. The two I bought in particular have come around for sale, yet they are among the less common ones of the "poilu" series. 

In any case, the provenance that I referred to is mainly tied to the authenticity certificates that were availabl

Now back to Mrs Fiske Warren and the subject of my post... who pioneered the movie poster craze? Does anyone recall posters being clearly identified as art/collectible before 1915?

The Sachs and Paul collections may be of interest to you Vick if you weren't aware. These were two collectors that built massive collections in the 1910's and 1920's. Since the collectors were Jewish, after the Nazis took over they fled Europe leaving their collections behind.

Items from both collections hit the auction block a few years ago (the sales were probably discussed here). Damn were there some amazing posters! NYT article on the auctions:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/10/18/arts/design/posters-lost-to-nazis-are-recovered-and-up-for-sale.html?referer=&_r=0
« Last Edit: April 18, 2016, 10:19:41 AM by DekeThornton »

Offline erik1925

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Re: Mrs. Fiske Warren (Gretchen Osgood) the Mother of Poster Collecting ?
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2016, 12:05:56 PM »
Jeff if you are saying that all of these are older backing jobs, or should be, otherwise they are repros or worthless, I have to disagree.  I don't dispute that you've found several that were also older backing jobs - I've also seen several - but the majority as I said are paper, and they are 100% authentic. 

Anyways, thanks for the link.  Its an interesting book that you've got there. Does it make reference to war/political posters? 

Hey Vick, No i wasnt saying ALL of these posters were backed on linen, I was meaning that when I did a quick search, I found several with "nice=higher" price tags, sold at other auctions that were also described as having been backed many years ago, too, and they also had those hanger hooks already in place. Just meaning that others from that era look to have been backed and made hang-ready, back in the day.

I will look in the Hiatt book again to see if there are way/political posters mentioned. I will get back to you on that.


-Jeff

Offline Crazy Vick

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Re: Mrs. Fiske Warren (Gretchen Osgood) the Mother of Poster Collecting ?
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2016, 12:52:47 PM »
The Sachs and Paul collections may be of interest to you Vick if you weren't aware. These were two collectors that built massive collections in the 1910's and 1920's. Since the collectors were Jewish, after the Nazis took over they fled Europe leaving their collections behind.

Items from both collections hit the auction block a few years ago (the sales were probably discussed here). Damn were there some amazing posters! NYT article on the auctions:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/10/18/arts/design/posters-lost-to-nazis-are-recovered-and-up-for-sale.html?referer=&_r=0

Thanks Deke. What a crazy story. I remember that auction - prices were nuts, even on some fairly common stuff.  Most however were one of a kind pieces I now wish I had been a bit more agressive on... real amazing stuff.  Reminds me of a more recent Guernsey's auction this past summer.  Edward H. McCrahon's collection was "ultimately recognized as the most extensive collection of war posters known to exist."   

http://www.guernseys.com/v2/WWI_Posters.html

I managed to snag a couple, so did Mike aka undead.

Offline erik1925

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Re: Mrs. Fiske Warren (Gretchen Osgood) the Mother of Poster Collecting ?
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2016, 06:32:59 PM »
Jeff if you are saying that all of these are older backing jobs, or should be, otherwise they are repros or worthless, I have to disagree.  I don't dispute that you've found several that were also older backing jobs - I've also seen several - but the majority as I said are paper, and they are 100% authentic. 

Anyways, thanks for the link.  Its an interesting book that you've got there. Does it make reference to war/political posters? 

Hey Vick,

I checked the book more carefully, and went thru the multiple images. It didn't have any war or real political posters. There were a couple images referencing Napoleon, but that was about it.


-Jeff

Offline Crazy Vick

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Re: Mrs. Fiske Warren (Gretchen Osgood) the Mother of Poster Collecting ?
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2016, 03:17:50 PM »
Hey Vick,

I checked the book more carefully, and went thru the multiple images. It didn't have any war or real political posters. There were a couple images referencing Napoleon, but that was about it.
too bad
(thanks though)