Author Topic: How did one collect before the internet?  (Read 14400 times)

Online eatbrie

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How did one collect before the internet?
« on: August 20, 2011, 10:48:53 PM »
I've only been collecting posters for 10 years or so, so I consider myself a baby in the game.  I'm certainly a child of the Ebay age.

I'd like is to hear from more seasoned collectors and find out how they got their gear?  What if they wanted a certain poster?  How would they get it?  The local poster shop?  How would they even know it existed without internet references or pictures?  It all seems so easy now (or easier), but maybe it's harder with the added competition.  I don't know.

What do you have to say?

T



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Disheveledamethyst

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Re: How did one collect before the internet?
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2011, 11:04:35 PM »
This intrigues me. I don't know how anybody collected anything before the internet. I mean, I live in Maine, if I want something other than silver dollars or the occasional book there is no resource for collectibles. My town in particular is famous for its antique shops - there are dozens of really large consignment facilities and rent-a-space places, but everything is your father's sports cards and... coins. It's all coins. All you find are things the previous generation stopped collecting and is now trying to sell.

Which is... coins. Fucking coins and hockey cards. No movie posters, that's for sure.

Edit: Taxidermy is pretty big too. I can probably get you a squirrel pretty easily.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2011, 11:09:05 PM by Disheveledamethyst »

Matt

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Re: How did one collect before the internet?
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2011, 11:08:18 PM »
The last time I went to the poster shop near me, there was this old guy there in his late 60's who still works for company that distributes posters here in Australia. He had a couple of photo albums of really old posters he'd collected over the years. Absolute eye poppers!!!

He deals with the shop owner, mainly on the new titles in the cinemas.

He asked the shop owner how much are you selling the Them daybill for?

Around $1200-1400 was the reply. Linen backed.

The old guy said "What's the cheapest you've brought one for?

Shop owner "I betcha I got mine cheaper than yours!"

Old guy "I doubt that my friend"

Who do you think won the bet and for how much?
« Last Edit: August 20, 2011, 11:20:11 PM by Matt »

Disheveledamethyst

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Re: How did one collect before the internet?
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2011, 11:13:25 PM »
On a somewhat related note, maybe I can finally get this question answered, how is it okay that we actually collect movie posters? At the theatre, studios send us letters with plenty of our posters that ask us to destroy them when we're done. Lots of posters still say "Property of X, not for resale or duplication" on the bottom. If my company found out I sold posters from the theatre, I'd lose my job.

So at what point does a movie poster, supposedly property of the studio, become fair game for resale? How do these shops exist without heat from some bitchy studio (like Sony or Fox) who don't like fun?

Offline Ari

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Re: How did one collect before the internet?
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2011, 11:32:35 PM »
My 1st posters were done by MAIL bidding. Catalogue, write a letter with my max amount, and win (or not) 1st time, won both items. Later scouring stores. I imagine it was easier outside of country Australia.
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Offline jayn_j

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Re: How did one collect before the internet?
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2011, 11:46:53 PM »
Let's see.  Bruce published a quarterly catalog of items for sale.  He gave a date and time when you could start calling.  You called in right away and got a place in line.  He then called you back in order and allowed you to buy from the catalog at list price.  After a couple of days, it was opened up to regular call ins and prices dropped on what was left every day. After a week, it was over.  Don't know what he did with the rest.

Movie Collector World was a big deal weekly.  We all had subscriptions.  Dealers put in large ads with lists and prices.  You called and negotiated.

Denver had 3 retail shops specializing in movie posters.  Most larger cities had a few.  Theaters used to save posters for collectors.  For awhile, the Fort Collins theaters used to keep a bin of excess ones out for people to take.

MOPO started back in 1995 when the net was just getting going.  Before that we were active on newsgroups and we built up smaller networks.  MOPO kind of came into being about the time that the newsgroups became unusable due to the spam.  Surprising to you maybe, but the net has been around since the early '80s.  A much gentler place back then.

I was traveling on business a lot in the '80s and used to hit half a dozen poster shops in the LA area.

Trust me, it's better now, but less personal at the same time.
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Bruce

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Re: How did one collect before the internet?
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2011, 11:57:15 PM »
Good summary Jay!

I could write an entire book on this, but I hate typing. I will wait until there are a fair number of responses, and then I will add some things I think were missed.

Incidentally, we have given away so many of the books we had left that we have no been able to re-organize our warehouse and I came across many of the catalogs I did from the 1990s that Jay referred to! Each had around 2,000 items and every one was pictured, so they were a massive effort. I will offer them for sale in some way before too much longer. There are some items I don't know have ever come up for sale since, and of course it is fun to see what the prices were so long ago!

Bruce

Offline crowzilla

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Re: How did one collect before the internet?
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2011, 12:19:15 AM »
I'm sure people like Bruce and Rich's stories of the old days will be much more interesting than mine, but Ari is definitely on the right trail.

In the old days collecting was not a solitary hobby, it was an interactive hobby where people looked forward to going to shows, actually did trades with other collectors, wrote letters with want lists on them and many a time you would take a chance on items that you had no idea what they looked like (I remember getting in my first set of lobbies from Them! and 20 Million Miles to Earth and being super upset about how crappy they were and that none of them had monsters on them).

The binding force in the hobby back then was MCW (Movie Collector's World - still being published). Back then (80s-mid 90s) it came out every two weeks and was always at least two sections.  If you wanted a chance at the best material you had to be one of the people who had it FedEx'ed to you and even then guys on the East Coast had an advantage over the West Coast folks.  

You were pretty much forced to buy every poster book that came out and absolutely had to attend multiple shows if you wanted to know what things looked like or have an idea what was out there.  Foreign posters were always an adventure, and dealers like Albert McFadden were a godsend with what they brought from trips overseas and their willingness to share information, but even as early as the late 80s Mexican cards were everywhere.
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Offline Ari

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Re: How did one collect before the internet?
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2011, 12:22:57 AM »
I had NO idea what my 1st 2 posters would look like, never seen them, Dawn of the dead aussie 1 sheet and Martin daybill. Didnt care, they were my 2 favourite films. and yes both pinned proudly on my teenage wall.
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Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: How did one collect before the internet?
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2011, 12:47:33 AM »
I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks in a small town called New York City. We didn't have much when I was kid, seeing as my father had been convicted of murdering 62 hookers when I was 6 months old. we were shunned by the town and regularly flogged by the local Pastor because we weren't part of his church so I didn't have any friends. I had started reading comic books as a diversion from all the loneliness and hate surrounding me. My brothers and I formed a gang with all the mafia kids in the neighborhood and we began robbing all the other school kid's lunch money  so we could buy comics and break my father out of jail by stapling them all together for a rope that he would climb down from Sing-Sing. When he was fried in the electric chair before our plan came to fruition.. I decided to become a comic book dealer.

Oh okay.. seriously.. It's not exactly that way.. I mean, we never formed a gang  wynk

well anyway, I started reading comics at 6 and my father didn't give us much.. I got 10cents allowance a week.. maybe (he really was a deadbeat and wasn't around). It didn't go far, and I was too young to rob banks, so I started selling comics on my block from my red wagon when I was 9. Believe it or not, in 1965, there were comic book stores in New York and elsewhere, and I took the trains to them all at one point or another and met other collectors from my age to 50-60 year old men who collected. I got my first posters from one such gent named Richard Bojarski who some of you may know as an author on Karloff. He sold me  Dead Man's Eyes & Invisible Man's Revenge 6 sheet for $20 in 1967. (I sold the Invisible to Bruce about 25 years ago sitting on the steps at the hotel in Columbus during Cinevent and he sold it at Christies. This is the same convention Bruce lost the one sheet for "the Kid" in the bathroom).

So I became pretty good at selling and then in 1968, Phil Seuling held the first NY Comic Art Convention at the Staler Hilton Hotel across the street from Madison Square Garden. I didn't have a dealer table, but at 11 I was setup on the floor down a "huckster's hallway". it cost $5. I met many collectors there including.. La Bruce!! It was the best thing possible for a collector or dealer to find and I went there every year until I was 15 when I discovered Girls, Jimi Hendrix and Purple Haze and all my stuff was boxed and put away while I was rockin and rollin. but then when I was 18 I returned and by then we had monthly sunday shows hosted by Seuling, Creation con followed soon after and others including LunaCon in 1969 where I met Ron Borst.

Anyway.. I've been selling ever since, although posters I would come back, go away, come back, go away and mostly maintained a major comic presence. I lost most of my interest in comics and comic art about 15 years ago and naturally as a collector, I just refocused myself into something I was still interested.. Here I am

now who can help me staple all these comics into a rope?

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Re: How did one collect before the internet?
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2011, 12:50:44 AM »
I should have mentioned, the first time I had ever seen a Frankenstein lobby cards was at the 1968 comic conc where a guy had Buster Crabbe behind his table autographing Flash Gordon lobby cards for buyers and I met Steve Sally at the early comic cons too as well as Jerry Ohlinger. I had Day the Earth Stood Still lobby set & Beast From 20,000 Fathoms 1sh that I bought at that show on Saturday for $10 each and before I got out of the room sold them for $30 each

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Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: How did one collect before the internet?
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2011, 08:30:04 AM »
Great topic!

In the early-mid 80s (when I was a teen) Cinema City regularly published black and white catalogs listing hundreds of original movie posters for sale.  I remember poring through them.  Only a few of the posters were pictured, which was frustrating.  I ordered several of the Kilian posters, Star Trek 1, Return of the Jedi (the light saber), and a few others.  I lost/gave away the original batch of posters when I went to college in 1987 and didn't regain interest in the hobby for another 20 years, although I would occasionally stop by the poster shops in the college towns when I was traveling.

Amazingly, Cinema City is still around but doesn't seem very active or prominent in the hobby.

Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: How did one collect before the internet?
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2011, 08:58:50 AM »
Surprising to you maybe, but the net has been around since the early '80s.  A much gentler place back then.

What movie poster resources were available online before 1995?  I remember some primitive "text only" bulletin boards back in the 80s but no pictures before Netscape in 1995.

Offline jayn_j

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Re: How did one collect before the internet?
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2011, 09:20:27 AM »
What movie poster resources were available online before 1995?  I remember some primitive "text only" bulletin boards back in the 80s but no pictures before Netscape in 1995.

No websites.  No BBS with pictures.  However there was a newsgroup and a small but dedicated set of dealers and collectors that frequented it.  Traded among ourselves and relied on the reputation of the seller to accurately represent poster condition.  I was often surprised with the image being different than I expected.

If somebody burned you, word spread fast.  Cindy once bought a lot of ten 1 sheets from a certain seller.  When we received them, they were all somewhat battered video posters.  Wrote to the seller and she explained that she didn't see a problem because they had the same images.  Cindy went back to the newsgroup with it, and I don't recall the seller ever selling anything from that group afterwards. 

Even MCW was mostly text based.  The dealers assumed you knew what a poster looked like and to save space would only list title, size, condition (usually inflated) and price.  We all bought poster resource books so we knew what we were going after.  I believe that was Bruce's target market with his books.  I know his early Christie and Southeby auction catalogs got a lot of use at our house.
-Jay-

Offline brude

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Re: How did one collect before the internet?
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2011, 10:29:50 AM »
Movie memorabilia collecting has been a lifelong journey for me.  I have mentioned some of the highlights here on the board, so if I repeat myself, just excuse me for being a doddering old fool.

I started collecting in 1966 at the age of 10 when I fell in love with Raquel Welch on the poster for ONE MILLION YEARS B.C. My Dad and I were at a weekend matinee showing of the movie (he was a big Harryhausen fan) and while waiting in line, he noticed how I couldn't take my eyes off the one sheet.  He suggested that I ask the manager if I could have it after the movie had run it's course.  I was very intimidated at the prospect of asking for something that special, but he told me that, "You won't get anything if you don't ask."

After the movie, I approached the manager and popped the question.  He said, "Sure. The poster comes down on Friday. I'll put your name on it but you've got to come for it Friday because someone else might take it or throw it out."  That was the longest week of my life.  I couldn't get the image of that poster out of my mind. I made space on my bedroom wall where I was going to hang it and I counted down the minutes the entire week. When Friday finally arrived, I came home from school and parked myself at the door waiting for Dad to get home.  It was pouring rain and Mom gave me terrible news, "Dad won't be home til late.  He's stuck at the office."

I went into panic mode. I asked Mom to take me to the theater, but she said no, because she was cooking dinner. Even though I was only 10, I grabbed my raincoat and ran to the theater, which was slightly less than one mile away.  When I got there, I was soaked to the bone from the rain and sweat.  I approached the ticket booth, shaking like a leaf for fear that the poster was gone. The manager was there.  He smiled and handed me the folded poster, which I tucked under my raincoat.  I thanked him profusely and he told me to stop in for more posters because he realized how much it meant to me.  I couldn't believe my ears.  I ran back home in the rain and that tattered, water-damaged poster stayed on my wall for years.  I have since replaced it with a mint copy, but that yellowed old one sheet will never leave my possession because it was my first and most special acquisition.

After that, my Dad suggested that I check the listings and start calling other movie theaters in the area.  I became very good at it and soon had a dozen or more theaters that would hold their posters for me every Friday.  When Dad would get home from work, I had a checklist and a route was born. We'd travel all over Queens and Nassau, NY, and I began to acquire a ton of memorabilia, including lobby cards and pressbooks, inserts and one sheets.

One of my favorite stops was a small theater in Roosevelt, Long Island. It was in a black neighborhood and the manager there became a fast friend. He almost exclusively booked low-budget horror films and I soon became the only white kid in the audience on Saturdays.  I watched many an exploitation film there and grew to appreciate audience participation.  I can't remember the manager's name, but he gave me NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD lobby cards, one sheets for BLACULA and DR.PHIBES and countless other gruesome gems, including those cheap Philippino horror films, BRIDES OF BLOOD, BEAST OF BLOOD and MAD DOCTOR OF BLOOD ISLAND.  Those were the good old days.

A year or so later, I spotted an ad from a guy named Frederick S. Clarke, who published a sci-fi fanzine named Cinefantastique.  He also sold movie posters. One sheets were $1.50, unless they were older (pre-1950) and then they were as much as $3.00 each.  I had a newspaper route and made about $10 a week.  My comic-book addiction cost about $2 weekly (comics were 12 cents then) and the rest I started to send to Clarke for posters, buying 5-6 per month. I bought many cool posters for $1.50, including FORBIDDEN PLANET, JASON AND THE ARGONAUTS, MACABRE, INVADERS FROM MARS (1953), etc., etc.

That exposure led me to a few other fanzine publishers who also dabbled in movie poster sales -- George Stover's Black Oracle and Gary Svehla's Gore Creatures.  I bought from those guys on occasion and they were very helpful and knowledgeable. Years later, Clarke's fanzine became the internationally renowned Cinefantastique pro-zine.

One day, my Dad showed me a classified ad for a place called Theater Poster Exchange.  He suggested that I write them a letter, which I did, asking them if they had any horror or sci-fi posters for sale. Several weeks went by and then a big box showed up at the door.  I opened it and it was a treasure trove.  There were one sheets for ARSENIC AND OLD LACE, THE SPIDER-WOMAN STRIKES BACK, THE LADY AND THE MONSTER, CULT OF THE COBRA, BLOOD FIEND, 2,000 MANIACS and an unused window card for THE BEAST FROM 20,000 FATHOMS (which I still have).  There were also NSS stills, press sheets, lobby cards and a bill for a whopping $35.00.

Soon after, I bought a few items from Jerry Ohlinger and Howard Rogofsky in NYC and found a few dealers in Hollywood.  Most of the time, I had to buy unseen because I had no idea what condition the poster was in and even what the design looked like.  It was a crap shoot by mail. Eventually, a dealer opened up shop on Long Island.  It was called the Movie Gallery.  I was like a pig in shit.  Every few weeks, I would beg a ride to the store and buy and trade posters with the old guy who ran the place.  Little did I know at the time, but he conned me out of my classics, convincing me that they were worthless and that I should collect newer posters.  I did buy many nice posters from him though, including a FEARLESS VAMPIRE KILLERS one sheet for a whopping $7.50.

Then, I discovered girls and my poster-collecting days came to a screeching halt until 1981.  That year, I married and moved to Ticonderoga, NY, where I became the advertising manager and art director for a string of weekly newspapers serving the entire Adirondack region.  Several of my accounts were movie theaters and drive-ins and I soon became addicted to the art form again.  I started to trade my layout skills to the theaters in exchange for their posters.  I would use their pressbooks and press sheets for logos and graphics, designing 8x10 flyers that could be handed out and reduced in size for ad placement in my papers.  For most of the 80s, I acquired all of the new release posters in this fashion, most of which I still own today -- THE THING, BLADE RUNNER, TRON and on and on...

Then, in the late 80s, I was hired as a feature writer and movie editor for United Media. Video had just been born and I created the industry's first home-video wire service, called VidPix.  VidPix went to 2600 clients and reached 60 million daily readers so, it was no wonder that I soon found myself on every studio mailing list and the recipient of many daily shipments of VHS tapes and all the promotional material available. I attended trade shows across the country and never -- I repeat never -- turned down the studio freebies.  In no time, I had a mountain of video release posters, presskits, transparencies, etc., etc.

Then, I discovered the internet and am still having a hard time getting my arms around the wealth of foreign posters that I had never even knew existed.
So, the journey continues....
 


Offline quadbod

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Re: How did one collect before the internet?
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2011, 10:36:35 AM »
In the old days collecting was not a solitary hobby, it was an interactive hobby where people looked forward to going to shows, actually did trades with other collectors, wrote letters with want lists on them ...

... and I am delighted to report that still happens!  I know the internet is used by a huge percentage of the active members of the hobby, but make no mistake, there is still a significant contingent of collectors who exist without it, surprising as that may seem to the youngers!   It is wrong to assume that everything happens online.  We have numerous regular customers of all ages who still prefer to visit us in person at fairs, send hand-written letters and make telephone calls and generally enjoy a leisurely, personal approach to their collection-building.

Best wishes,

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Offline Zorba

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Re: How did one collect before the internet?
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2011, 11:07:13 AM »
That is an excellent read Ted.

I have a very modest and specific sports memorabilia collection that I put together over a few years. I attained 99% of it in person and mostly at shows.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2011, 11:07:30 AM by Zorba »

Offline paul waines

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Re: How did one collect before the internet?
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2011, 11:20:20 AM »
Quite right Terry, and I for one still prefer, and enjoy more that experience over the Interweb. More so when dealers are first rate people like yourselves.

When I started collecting, around 1970. You could scrounge the odd poster from a Cinema, but mostly you were told they were sent back with the film, so getting anything there was almost impossible ( maybe someone in the cinema had them ear-marked ). So the back of Film review Mag, in the Ads section was the first place that was easy to get them from, mostly done by Letter and sending a postal order.  You would eventually end up on some Mailing lists of dealers down south. Who would send you every few months a list of new items.
     Next was Conventions, or as they were known over here, Film fairs (and not the ageing star filled things we now have, just plain and simple stuff for sale) . These were fantastic as the amount and type of items for sale was incredible, and all to hand. The problem was, in those days lack of funds.  
    So over the years you built up a list of collectors, and dealers who you Phoned, wrote to, or met up with. The days of getting a poster every week just didn't happen, or even from abroad!!  So you saved up waiting for the next list to come, or for that trip out to the Film fair.
    This maybe not what the "new" collector would be happy about doing as it does seem a chew on, but believe me they were Great times. And with things like a Get Carter Quad going for a whole £2.00, or a Goldfinger for a fiver, all was a jolly wheez. I just wish I'd spent more on posters at the time instead of other stuff....  
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Offline jayn_j

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Re: How did one collect before the internet?
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2011, 11:25:31 AM »
I guess I missed out living in Colorado.  Never went to any of the collector shows back then.  Everything was 1000+ miles from Denver, so it was a major commitment, especially with a young family.

I really need to try and make Cinevent next year.  Almost went at the last minute this year.
-Jay-

Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: How did one collect before the internet?
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2011, 11:36:00 AM »
they were great times ... a Goldfinger for a fiver....

Hard to believe they were ever that cheap....



« Last Edit: August 21, 2011, 11:37:32 AM by Dread_Pirate_Mel »

Offline Neo

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Re: How did one collect before the internet?
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2011, 01:01:52 PM »
Wow.  Awesome histories from y'all.  Good to see you guys hanging around and educating the new school crowd, including myself.  

In the early '90's, I collected some rare, out of print, and/or imported CDs, records, and posters, and some swag, for some bands like Metallica, Megadeth, and various others.  Really liked the gnarly art on some of that heavy metal stuff, a lot I still have, others lost through people "borrowing" them or just getting thrown away (including some nice posters that are probably extremely rare).  I didn't start using the internet until about 2003 so everything was "old school" for myself, like you guys, went to some local record store, a couple in surrounding cities that my parents were cool to drive me to, and a few record shows also.  Found some pretty awesome stuff that I thought I would never find.  Now I see some of it always on Ebay, which would've taken a lot of the fun out of the "hunt" for me back in the day.  A few record magazines had ads like classifieds but they mostly had stuff that was several decades old, and it got to the point after looking through so many that I just started calling each one in the magazine and I remember asking "do you guys have any rare or out of print ____(usually Metallica or heavy metal)" and the guy on the other end would be like "what?".  ;D  I did, however, find one good dude somewhere in California who owned a record store, through a random phone call, who always had some cool stuff, like a 40x60 Creeping Death poster I scored from him.  A good reminder of how it was really "hit or miss" back in the day.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2011, 09:56:21 PM by NeoLoco »

Disheveledamethyst

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Re: How did one collect before the internet?
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2011, 01:50:01 PM »
I was born in 1991. What's a record store?

Offline 50s

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Re: How did one collect before the internet?
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2011, 06:32:54 PM »
Fascinating read Ted!  thumbup

Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: How did one collect before the internet?
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2011, 08:04:22 PM »
I was born in 1991. What's a record store?


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Offline erik1925

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Re: How did one collect before the internet?
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2011, 05:25:01 PM »
Great recount, Ted..  thumbup

...and thanks for sharing that. I especially liked how a simple letter to the Theater Poster Exchange brought a box full of items. Long gone are those days, that's for sure.

Jeff



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