Author Topic: Glass or Acrylic?  (Read 31080 times)

Offline paul waines

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Re: Glass or Acrylic?
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2015, 01:51:18 AM »
WoW Paul...thats awful :-\   what kind of glass was it? Is that laminated glass? Mine are in museum glass which is also laminated, meant to keep it all together in case it shutters or breaks. And anti-fire too...but never dropped one on the floor to try it :-\

Not Laminated Rosa, just plain glass, but even Laminated can have shards come off...
It's more than a Hobby...

Mirosae

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Re: Glass or Acrylic?
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2015, 03:22:38 AM »
Thanks Paul.Very helpful

Offline CSM

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Re: Glass or Acrylic?
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2015, 10:31:31 PM »
You should see the poster restored - shame the glass could not be salvaged (or the seller's IQ) ;)
Chris

Offline erik1925

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Re: Glass or Acrylic?
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2015, 12:16:59 PM »
Does the name Quasimodo ring a bell?
 wynk

 ;D ;D


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Offline erik1925

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Re: Glass or Acrylic?
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2016, 07:06:46 PM »
From Sue Heim's website. She's yet another who truly knows her stuff and what she is talking about.  thumbup 

(https://www.hollywoodposterframes.com/index.php?p=page&page_id=protect_investment)

"The most important components of the frame job is what's in front of your piece and what is behind your piece.

Let's begin with what's in front.  First off, glass is a no-no! First of all, it can break, and if that happens, often your item is scratched, torn or ruined. Glass is also a heat conductor and accelerates fading and decay. Glass has one other very negative aspect and that is moisture entrapment. Framers often recommend spacers, but then do not dissuade customers from using glass. Also, even if you use spacers, movie posters are so large that they often touch the glass anyway nearer the center, thus defeating the purpose.

Framers often recommend conservation glass that typically has UV filtering but it is still a heat conductor that accelerates yellowing and brittleing. You can also get moisture entrapment and there is still a possibility of breakage, even with conservation glass, especially with these larger sizes. Glass, of any kind, is extremely heavy for any oversize piece. Conservation glass is also extremely expensive since it is very much a specialty product. When glass breaks it can shatter or just have a clean break in half. Either way, the likelihood is high of moderate to severe damage to your poster. Often times with such a large piece of glass breaking, the top half of the glass will slide behind the bottom half and scrape the face of the poster making it extremely difficult to repair. Thus, plexiglass is the recommended covering for your movie posters and valuable paper.

I have had customers tell me they don't like the look of plexiglass: it scratches, turns yellow, gets an opaque film over time. This is not high grade plexiglass! Just as some people call all tissues, Kleenex, many people call all plastics, plexiglass, and it is not. There is Lucite, styrene, low grade acrylics and many other forms of plastic sheeting, most of which have no archival qualities and least of all have no UV filtering which is the most important component of plexiglass for movie poster and paper preservation purposes. Plexiglass also does not absorb dirt and grime from the air since typically it has been polished with an antistatic cream before it is installed in the frame. Actually, when polished, plexiglass will repel dirt and dust and very rarely even needs cleaning or repolishing.

Just an added note, if you currently have something framed in your home in plexiglass or any form of plastic, never use any ammonia based cleaner on it as the chemical reaction with the plastic is what causes clouding. One of the other complaints I hear about plexiglass is that it warps and gives the poster a distorted look. Again, this is typical of the lower grades of plastics that are very thin and don't lie flat in the frame. A good piece of plexiglass should be the same thickness as glass, about one eighth of an inch thick.

One other note regarding the differences between glass and plexiglass that definitely is not crucial to the preservation of the poster is that glass has a green tint to it and a good grade of plexiglass is crystal clear. Lower grades of plastics have been made with inferior materials. Remember, the most important element of framing anything you want to preserve, is that it be framed in an acid-free environment. Plexiglass with extremely high levels of UV protection, in my experience, often has a yellow tint to it and this type of plexiglass would be used on extremely valuable items and perhaps items that are hung near high exposure areas. Plexiglass is available in clear and non-glare.

For many years I've had customers who have preferred a non-glare covering for their artwork. While non-glare glass is available there are inherent problems with this product. By nature of its design, when non-glare glass is placed over the artwork, it has a tendency to dissipate color and take the art slightly out of focus, especially if you are using a mat over your artwork. Most importantly however, it is glass, and still has ALL THE NEGATIVE ASPECTS OF GLASS.

A few years back, non-glare plexiglass became available which is as near true-view perfect as you can get, while still maintaining the high quality of UV. I immediately switched all of my posters that hung in highly lit areas to this non-glare plexiglass product and have been thrilled with the look ever since. Whichever type of plexiglass you choose, clear or non-glare, as long as you select high quality material with UV filtering, you will be helping to preserve the integrity of your own collectibles."


-Jeff

Offline movieposterodyssey

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Re: Glass or Acrylic?
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2016, 01:39:27 AM »
Rich got the "brittle" treatment. In high humid areas moisture and sticking to the glass will be the result. ;)

guest4720

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Re: Glass or Acrylic?
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2016, 03:15:30 PM »
From Sue Heim's website. She's yet another who truly knows her stuff and what she is talking about.  thumbup 

(https://www.hollywoodposterframes.com/index.php?p=page&page_id=protect_investment)
Framers often recommend spacers, but then do not dissuade customers from using glass. Also, even if you use spacers, movie posters are so large that they often touch the glass anyway nearer the center, thus defeating the purpose.

I completely disagree.

If you're not using spacers and mats in your frame and have the poster right up against anything (including plexi) you're asking for REAL trouble.  Ask any legitimate curator or scientist.  It also makes common sense; why would you ever have something valuable stuck against a clear surface?  Your poster and the colors on it will either come off OR stick to what it's pressed up against.  The poster will also ripple over time without spacers. All of this can happen rather quickly.

I use Museum grade UV conservation glass and wooden frames only.  LED lights only (no florescent).  The humidity always stays been 35-50% at 70 +/- F.  NO WIRES, never ONLY D-Rings. My posters are BOLTED on the wall using D-rings.  It would take a magnitude 9+ earthquake to knock them off.

I know a lot of these cheap frames come with wires, no D-rings, no spacers or bad UV-filtering.  A lot of this stuff is manufactured in overseas with hardly any thought or care put into it.

The article states "movie posters are so large that they often touch the glass anyway nearer the center, thus defeating the purpose".  The reason this happens is because you are using a cheap metal frame that bows with a metal wire hanging behind it.  This won't happen if you're using a solid custom made wooden frame (20 plus lbs), L-corners, spacers and several mats to hold the poster down.

A proper frame job for a 1sheet can run upwards of $800 plus (if done right).  Some of the greatest posters in the world are behind museum glass under these same storage conditions. If you're having issues with brittleness you've got major humidity/temperature issues.
 

Offline movieposterodyssey

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Re: Glass or Acrylic?
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2016, 07:58:23 PM »
Well, if you have the money for framing and the ability to control the weather conditions where the collection resides, then glass shouldn't be a problem.

Unfortunately, most collectors don't have that luxury.  ;)



 

Offline erik1925

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Re: Glass or Acrylic?
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2016, 10:47:10 PM »
Well, if you have the money for framing and the ability to control the weather conditions where the collection resides, then glass shouldn't be a problem.

Unfortunately, most collectors don't have that luxury.  ;)


And I think that's why Sue, Rich (and galleries I have dealt with for non-poster works on paper) have always recommended high end UV plexi over glass, due to those factors that can't be as easily controlled by the avg person (heat and humidity), vs. a museum or other type locations where there can be strict controls in place.


-Jeff

Online 50s

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Re: Glass or Acrylic?
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2016, 12:00:06 AM »
Even if you lived in a simulated museum, you wouldn't want kids in there near the glass like doing hand stands, playing ball, swinging the cat, pushing and shoving. Congrats if you live in a museum like environment


Offline erik1925

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Re: Glass or Acrylic?
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2016, 12:15:11 AM »
Exactly.. the glass breakage factor... that could damage both kids and paper, if broken. In college, I had a print that I bought, that was already framed with glass. During a small earthquake, it fell from the wall and a glass shard scratched and cut into the print.   Doh.gif

Lesson learned.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2016, 12:22:05 AM by erik1925 »


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Offline Crazy Vick

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Re: Glass or Acrylic?
« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2016, 09:31:40 AM »
Congrats if you live in a museum like environment

laugh1

guest4720

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Re: Glass or Acrylic?
« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2016, 02:20:46 PM »
Even if you lived in a simulated museum, you wouldn't want kids in there near the glass like doing hand stands, playing ball, swinging the cat, pushing and shoving. Congrats if you live in a museum like environment



Who said anything about kids?

Offline Neo

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Re: Glass or Acrylic?
« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2016, 03:12:41 PM »
I completely disagree.

If you're not using spacers and mats in your frame and have the poster right up against anything (including plexi) you're asking for REAL trouble.  Ask any legitimate curator or scientist.  It also makes common sense; why would you ever have something valuable stuck against a clear surface?  Your poster and the colors on it will either come off OR stick to what it's pressed up against.  The poster will also ripple over time without spacers. All of this can happen rather quickly.

I use Museum grade UV conservation glass and wooden frames only.  LED lights only (no florescent).  The humidity always stays been 35-50% at 70 +/- F.  NO WIRES, never ONLY D-Rings. My posters are BOLTED on the wall using D-rings.  It would take a magnitude 9+ earthquake to knock them off.

I know a lot of these cheap frames come with wires, no D-rings, no spacers or bad UV-filtering.  A lot of this stuff is manufactured in overseas with hardly any thought or care put into it.

The article states "movie posters are so large that they often touch the glass anyway nearer the center, thus defeating the purpose".  The reason this happens is because you are using a cheap metal frame that bows with a metal wire hanging behind it.  This won't happen if you're using a solid custom made wooden frame (20 plus lbs), L-corners, spacers and several mats to hold the poster down.

A proper frame job for a 1sheet can run upwards of $800 plus (if done right).  Some of the greatest posters in the world are behind museum glass under these same storage conditions. If you're having issues with brittleness you've got major humidity/temperature issues.
 


I see what you mean about having spacers, or mats, between the piece in the frame and the glass or acrylic.  The part about the piece sticking to the glass or acrylic, applies more to something like a painting, than a poster, but under the right conditions, a poster certainly could bond to the glass or acrylic.

Correct, the wire that is on the back of many frames will cause the frame to bow, which causes issues.  Do you have a photo of the D-rings setup?

As a member of the Frame Price Police, I must say that the price you mentioned for a one sheet frame - "upwards of $800 plus (if done right)" - is not entirely accurate.  That may be what some framers charge, however the materials themselves, when purchased from any number of retail outlets, would be a small fraction of that.  The museum grade materials (acid-free foamcore backing and mats, museum-grade UV acrylic/glass - such as Acrylite OP3, and the frame hardware), could be purchased for around $100.  The greatest variance in the cost would be for the style frame molding.


All in all, good food for thought.

guest4720

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Re: Glass or Acrylic?
« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2016, 03:33:02 PM »

I see what you mean about having spacers, or mats, between the piece in the frame and the glass or acrylic.  The part about the piece sticking to the glass or acrylic, applies more to something like a painting, than a poster, but under the right conditions, a poster certainly could bond to the glass or acrylic.

Correct, the wire that is on the back of many frames will cause the frame to bow, which causes issues.  Do you have a photo of the D-rings setup?

As a member of the Frame Price Police, I must say that the price you mentioned for a one sheet frame - "upwards of $800 plus (if done right)" - is not entirely accurate.  That may be what some framers charge, however the materials themselves, when purchased from any number of retail outlets, would be a small fraction of that.  The museum grade materials (acid-free foamcore backing and mats, museum-grade UV acrylic/glass - such as Acrylite OP3, and the frame hardware), could be purchased for around $100.  The greatest variance in the cost would be for the style frame molding.


All in all, good food for thought.

 D-rings, you can just google them plenty of pictures there, are mounted on both sides of the frame; then you use hangers that go into the wall and the D-rings hook onto them.  You get no stress or pulling on the frame this way.  Of course you have to use a wooden frame to mount them.

I just can't stress enough how important it is to never have the poster or artwork directly pressed up against anything; particularly plexi. I don't care who's selling what.  Plexi isn't even acid free; it's a polymer that a lot of degradating ingredients go into making including gasoline.

Offline Neo

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Re: Glass or Acrylic?
« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2016, 03:45:38 PM »
I Googled "D-ring hangers" right after posting, and realized that I had the same on my frames.  :P  They are good, and are easy to install on wood moldings, and they may be able to be installed on some metal moldings.

You make a valid point, that ideally, it would be best to not have the piece pressed directly against glass, or acrylic.

 cheers
« Last Edit: April 10, 2016, 04:55:20 PM by Neo »

Offline erik1925

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Re: Glass or Acrylic?
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2016, 03:51:27 PM »
Lucite or plexi is derived from natural gas but it is not made with gasoline.

https://www.plexi-craft.com/acrylic-plexiglass-lucite-clear-plastic.html

Q: What is acrylic made of?

A: Acrylic is a transparent thermoplastic known as polyacrylate and is derived from natural-gas. It is a composition of Methyl Methacrylate (MMA) and Poly Methyl Methacrylate (PMMA) resin. In short, its a petroleum-based product, so petroleum solvents and chemicals should always be avoided to prevent marking the surface.






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guest4720

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Re: Glass or Acrylic?
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2016, 07:04:13 PM »
Lucite or plexi is derived from natural gas but it is not made with gasoline.

https://www.plexi-craft.com/acrylic-plexiglass-lucite-clear-plastic.html

Q: What is acrylic made of?

A: Acrylic is a transparent thermoplastic known as polyacrylate and is derived from natural-gas. It is a composition of Methyl Methacrylate (MMA) and Poly Methyl Methacrylate (PMMA) resin. In short, its a petroleum-based product, so petroleum solvents and chemicals should always be avoided to prevent marking the surface.

Plexi is a polymer and polymers are made of petroleum.  Petro. is a liquid used in gasoline. I wouldn't use plexi...





Offline movieposterodyssey

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Re: Glass or Acrylic?
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2016, 02:03:01 AM »

The part about the piece sticking to the glass or acrylic, applies more to something like a painting, than a poster, but under the right conditions, a poster certainly could bond to the glass or acrylic.


Honestly, I think a poster would be more susceptible to sticking than a painting. Being the paper is so thin and fragile. Especially, the old clay stuff.

Never had an issue with plexi, but I've seen a few posters stick to glass.
 

Offline erik1925

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Re: Glass or Acrylic?
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2016, 02:31:57 AM »
And, as Rich has pointed out and stressed Many times --- glass retains and transfers heat:

http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,9874.msg184416.html#msg184416

Yet another reason to avoid it.

And thanks again for the info, Rich. You know that of which you speak.  thumbsup.gif
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 02:34:23 AM by erik1925 »


-Jeff

guest4720

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Re: Glass or Acrylic?
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2016, 03:06:30 AM »
Honestly, I think a poster would be more susceptible to sticking than a painting. Being the paper is so thin and fragile. Especially, the old clay stuff.

Never had an issue with plexi, but I've seen a few posters stick to glass.
  

I have.  I've seen a Forbidden Planet 1sheet cloudified and stuck to the inside of a rim-metal pushing the sides frame with the reds and title credits smeared off.

I can't stress this enough you: 1) you need to have the temperature and humidity under control (If you're serious about collecting posters you should invest in a dehumidifier from day 1) 2) NEVER have any kind of poster, artwork pushed up against a surface.


guest4720

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Re: Glass or Acrylic?
« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2016, 03:20:23 AM »
And, as Rich has pointed out and stressed Many times --- glass retains and transfers heat:

http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,9874.msg184416.html#msg184416

Yet another reason to avoid it.

And thanks again for the info, Rich. You know that of which you speak.  thumbsup.gif

Jeff whatever you want to believe. I could care less how you store your posters. 

I'm just telling you how I store mine and others store theirs.

I would hate to see others follow suit on bad information, but do whatever you'd like.

Doubt the MOMA, Geppi's and others would be using UV-museum glass without proper research.

Doubt I'd be using UV-museum on my framed stuff without plenty of my own research.

That's a lot of the problem with message boards these days typically it's only a select few posting with lots of incorrect, misleading information spewed left and right.

guest4720

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Re: Glass or Acrylic?
« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2016, 03:23:21 AM »
I have.  I've seen a Forbidden Planet 1sheet cloudified and stuck to the inside of a rim-metal pushing the sides frame with the reds and title credits smeared off. (Q: Do you have a picture A: no I don't -so don't ask).

I can't stress this enough you: 1) you need to have the temperature and humidity under control (If you're serious about collecting posters you should invest in a dehumidifier from day 1) 2) NEVER have any kind of poster, artwork pushed up against a surface.



Offline erik1925

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Re: Glass or Acrylic?
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2016, 06:47:48 PM »

At the end of the day, it comes down to what one prefers to use, regardless of the info available.   coffee


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Offline Neo

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Re: Glass or Acrylic?
« Reply #49 on: April 11, 2016, 10:43:43 PM »
At the end of the day, it comes down to what one prefers to use, regardless of the info available.   coffee

Indeed.

Glass and acrylic each have their pros and cons, of course.

It would be interesting to know why many museums often choose glass over acrylic.

Ever since I saw a rad, 300 gallon acrylic aquarium at the fish store that I visited regularly, back when I had a fish tank, I've thought that acrylic is cool.  The tank seemed to be more optically pure, especially when next to the glass tanks in there.  Although scientific results and many people say that high quality acrylic and glass are nearly indistinguishable, in terms of optical clarity, I'm sure that I can see a difference with high quality acrylic.  The other positives of acrylic also make me prefer it.  But to each his/her own.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 11:21:31 PM by Neo »