Author Topic: Wild Bunch Italian day-glo 2-foglio...  (Read 3101 times)

Offline Harry Caul

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Wild Bunch Italian day-glo 2-foglio...
« on: April 17, 2015, 11:16:07 AM »


Anyone have more info on this poster?  I can find no record of it selling anywhere.  Also, while eMovie listed it as a 70s re-release, I'm not convinced that it isn't a first release poster.  For starters, it's says Prima Edizione Italiana 1969 at the bottom.  It also uses the W7 Warner-Seven Arts logo.  That company only existed for a short time from 1967 to 1970 after Warner's merger with Seven Arts.  They only produced a handful of films, Bonnie and Clyde, Cool Hand Luke, Bullitt and The Wild Bunch being the most notable titles.  Of the films they produced (and that were released in Italy) after Wild Bunch, here is the list:

7/18/69   The Wild Bunch
9/3/69   The Valley of Gwangi
9/10/69   The Great Bank Robbery
10/12/69   The Madwoman of Chaillot
11/12/69   The Arrangement
11/19/69   The Good Guys and the Bad Guys
1/14/70   Last of the Mobile Hot Shots
2/4/70   Start the Revolution Without Me
3/1/70   Moon Zero Two

Have a look at the logos:

Valley of Gwangi


Great Bank Robbery


Madwoman of Chaillot


Arrangement


Good Guys and the Bad Guys


Last of the Mobile Hot Shots


Start the Revolution Without Me


Moon Zero Two


So even though "Warner-Seven Arts" existed into mid-1970 before officially becoming just "Warner Bros" again, I can't find any use of the W7 logo post-1969.  I'm assuming by the time those last few W7 films (starting with The Arrangement in late 1969) got distribution in Italy the change had already happened or the writing was on the wall and the decision was made to use the new WB logo. 

Anyway, this is all to say that I think this day-glo poster could indeed be a first release.  I know I paid a first release price for it! :)  That said, even it it turns out to be an early re-release I'm still thrilled to own this one.

Offline Harry Caul

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Re: Wild Bunch Italian day-glo 2-foglio...
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2015, 11:25:04 AM »
For reference:

Warner Bros. - Seven Arts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warner_Bros.-Seven_Arts
Warner Bros. logos through the ages: http://logos.wikia.com/wiki/Warner_Bros._Pictures

Offline DarvishJo

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Re: Wild Bunch Italian day-glo 2-foglio...
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2015, 11:31:17 AM »
Looking at the distributor logo (Dear) I found this on the LAMP site:

http://www.learnaboutmovieposters.com/newsite/index/countries/italy/Distributors/ItalianDistributors.asp

It says that version of the logo did not appear until 1971!

John

Offline Harry Caul

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Re: Wild Bunch Italian day-glo 2-foglio...
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2015, 11:37:20 AM »
Looking at the distributor logo (Dear) I found this on the LAMP site:

http://www.learnaboutmovieposters.com/newsite/index/countries/italy/Distributors/ItalianDistributors.asp

It says that version of the logo did not appear until 1971!

John


Any chance you can post the relevant info?  I can't see it as I'm not a subscriber to LAMP.  Also, LAMPs info seems incorrect as The Wild Bunch was released in Italy on September 12, 1969.  It uses the same logos (W7 and DEAR) -- as do quite a few other W7 films released in 1969 as seen above.



« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 11:46:22 AM by Harry Caul »

Offline DarvishJo

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Lamp's "Dear" Logo
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2015, 12:56:47 PM »
[img width= height=]http://www.musicman.com/00pic/dearfilm.jpg[/img]

LAMP says this logo was active 1971-1973 - it is not exactly the same as the one on your poster but close




Offline erik1925

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Re: Wild Bunch Italian day-glo 2-foglio...
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2015, 01:27:28 PM »
Nice looking poster there, Matt.

Congrats on the win!

These Italian dayglo examples really pop and what fantastic color!

RR or not, is certainly is a nice addition.

I will 'snoop' around, too (it's always fun to sherlock); if i find anything, i will be sure to post it here, too.

 thumbsup.gif
« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 01:42:52 PM by erik1925 »


-Jeff

Offline Harry Caul

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Re: Lamp's "Dear" Logo
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2015, 02:08:40 PM »
[img width= height=]http://www.musicman.com/00pic/dearfilm.jpg[/img]

LAMP says this logo was active 1971-1973 - it is not exactly the same as the one on your poster but close

Thanks.  Am I correct that mine has "Disturbuzione Dalla" and the 71-13 drops the "Dalla"?  Is that the only difference?  Interesting tho that the 71-13 logo was used on the Wild Bunch locandia I posted!  That was supposedly a 1st release.  I think we might need a confirmation on that LAMP date...

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Re: Wild Bunch Italian day-glo 2-foglio...
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2015, 02:41:39 PM »
Matt, I asked my Italian friend, who lives in Italy, Torino 5mn from the Italian Film Poster museum and whom since then has gotten the poster bug.

Anyway, he agrees with you that "Prima edizione" is key. This was only printed on first release posters never for later reissues. 

That said he is not a film poster expert (but don't tell him that) he will keep an eye and will ask around in the local movie shops  ;)

Hope this helps.

Offline DarvishJo

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Re: Wild Bunch Italian day-glo 2-foglio...
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2015, 03:06:54 PM »
Matt, I asked my Italian friend, who lives in Italy, Torino 5mn from the Italian Film Poster museum and whom since then has gotten the poster bug.

Anyway, he agrees with you that "Prima edizione" is key. This was only printed on first release posters never for later reissues. 

That said he is not a film poster expert (but don't tell him that) he will keep an eye and will ask around in the local movie shops  ;)

Hope this helps.

I've noticed on several of my Italian rerelease posters that they still say "prima edizione," but this is followed by the date if the date of the rerelease is laster than the year of the first release.  At least my R1983 Goldfinger http://www.musicman.com/getimage.php?i=http://www.musicman.com/00pic/gf2.jpg says "prima edizione 1964"


Offline erik1925

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Re: Wild Bunch Italian day-glo 2-foglio...
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2015, 03:30:40 PM »
I've noticed on several of my Italian rerelease posters that they still say "prima edizione," but this is followed by the date if the date of the rerelease is laster than the year of the first release.  At least my R1983 Goldfinger http://www.musicman.com/getimage.php?i=http://www.musicman.com/00pic/gf2.jpg says "prima edizione 1964"



Careful scrutiny of all the printer's info on the borders, is always important- especially with Italian posters, as bruce/emovie has often noted that Italians posters can be hard to date, often using the same artwork and/or plates for later RR as was used on the first release.  ;)


-Jeff

Mirosae

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Re: Wild Bunch Italian day-glo 2-foglio...
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2015, 03:31:31 PM »
I've noticed on several of my Italian rerelease posters that they still say "prima edizione," but this is followed by the date if the date of the rerelease is laster than the year of the first release.  At least my R1983 Goldfinger http://www.musicman.com/getimage.php?i=http://www.musicman.com/00pic/gf2.jpg says "prima edizione 1964"



Good point. I'll pass this along see what he says.   I did ask him to ask around too :)

Offline Harry Caul

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Re: Wild Bunch Italian day-glo 2-foglio...
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2015, 04:17:59 PM »
Here is what Bruce replied to me:

Quote
Matt,

We've auctioned a different version that we feel is the first release poster which you can see here:
http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/mode/0/film_title/Wild%2520Bunch/tag/nation%253AItaly/type/Italian%25201p/archive.html

It certainly occurred to me that the day-glo one you bought could be first release, but the printing quality is not as good (look especially at the "Dear Film" logo at lower right), so I wanted to play it safe by calling it a re-release.

I guess you have been talking about it on allposterforum, but as you know, I don't have access to view the forum discussion, but if you see something there that you think makes this different (but not from one of the many people there who have no real knowledge), please send me those comments.

Thanks,
Bruce

Here was my response to him:

From what I’ve been able to piece together, the logos all point towards it being a 1969 poster (see below).  Now that was before I knew the print quality of the credits area was not as high of quality.  Sometimes day-glo posters seem to have been screen-printed — do you think the credits could have been screen-printed as opposed to offset, leading to the lower quality?  If that’s a possibility then I might be leaning towards "first release, later printing."  Just speculation, but I don't picture day-glos to be a first run Rome-premiere type of poster — so first release, first printing would be out of contention. I picture day-glo being used at late night budget theaters targeting kids.  Maybe that’s US/UK-only… not sure how day-glos were used in Italy…

Knowing about the lower print quality, it could have been re-print of a first release poster (logos and all).  If so, however, it doesn’t match any of the credit layouts from known, first release posters.  I guess it could be a blow-up of a newspaper mat, but then the text would be awful.  I guess I'll need to wait to see it in person. 

4-Foglio


2-Foglio


Locandina


Day-glo 2-Foglio

Offline Crazy Vick

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Re: Wild Bunch Italian day-glo 2-foglio...
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2015, 04:53:47 PM »
Here is what Bruce replied to me:
I guess you have been talking about it on allposterforum, but as you know, I don't have access to view the forum discussion, but if you see something there that you think makes this different (but not from one of the many people there who have no real knowledge), please send me those comments.
Don't you find it weird that he would say that? I don`t know anyone on APF who would fall into that category. hmmm.gif

Offline Harry Caul

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Re: Wild Bunch Italian day-glo 2-foglio...
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2015, 05:19:55 PM »
Don't you find it weird that he would say that? I don`t know anyone on APF who would fall into that category. hmmm.gif

To be fair I would put myself into that category and I didn't take any offense by it :)   Some collectors have specialized knowledge of certain genres and countries (or better yet first hand knowledge), others like myself try to piece together as much info as possible hoping for nuggets of info shared by the former.  I think he just meant if there is anyone who chimes in with first-hand/specialized knowledge that he would love to update the notes in his database.  To be honest, I think we haven't presented anything beyond what he put in his auction description -- possible first release, possible early re-release -- and Bruce usually defaults to the safer side given his lifetime guarantee. 

Online Neo

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Re: Wild Bunch Italian day-glo 2-foglio...
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2015, 05:43:06 PM »
Don't you find it weird that he would say that? I don`t know anyone on APF who would fall into that category. hmmm.gif

I think he meant to say "no real knowledge on that issue."

There are a lot of different cases, of course, and as very well said by HC, a lot of people don't have first-hand knowledge, and try to piece things together from various sources.  With the latter, a quandary arises when research can not be evaluated and/or confirmed.  The Clerks alleged repro. is a prime example.


Not to derail your thread here, HC.  That The Wild Bunch 2-foglio is a beaut.  Good luck on confirming its origin.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 06:03:05 PM by Neo »

Offline Harry Caul

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Re: Wild Bunch Italian day-glo 2-foglio...
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2015, 06:12:56 PM »
I think he meant to say "no real knowledge on that issue."

There are a lot of different cases, of course, and as very well said by HC, a lot of people don't have first-hand knowledge, and try to piece things together from various sources.  With the latter, a quandary arises when research can not be evaluated and/or confirmed.  The Clerks alleged repro. is a prime example.


Not to derail your thread here, HC.  That The Wild Bunch 2-foglio is a beaut.  Good luck on confirming its origin.

thumbup

Offline CSM

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Re: Wild Bunch Italian day-glo 2-foglio...
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2015, 11:57:31 PM »
Regardless of what it truly is - very nice Matt!
Chris

Offline oldposterho

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Re: Wild Bunch Italian day-glo 2-foglio...
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2015, 09:33:32 AM »
FWIW, I've always taken "prima edizione" to be a clue that it's NOT a first release, as I've seen it mostly on re-release posters and can't actually think of one where I've seen it on a first release poster.  I've interpreted it as a relic of some obscure Italian law that says you have to tell the audience when the film was made if it's not 'current,' although that's just my perception of the issue and I have no real knowledge about it.

To me it's a minor quibble as a four or five year difference in an almost 50 year old film (EEEEEEK!!!!) is starting to be inconsequential to all but the most fanatical.  It is an absolutely stunning poster and falls into the "better than the original" category of re-release (if it is indeed one).  Nicely done, sir...

--Peter
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