B2 Posters. What are they really worth?

[masterpizza2]

I recently discovered  collecting Japan B2 posters and have acquired a few contacts that help me obtain them from numerous locations. Is anyone on here familiar with these? Is there a good website that can provide me with a general estimate on certain B2 posters? I see them going for anywhere from 9$ -2000$ on eBay, even for certain popular titles, without any clear pattern of what is the reason for the high prices.

Most of my posters are Japanese Horror/Grindhouse posters including Machine Girl, Robogeisha, and Mutant Girl Squad, Friday the 13th Style A, and a bunch more.

Any thoughts?

[linder1]

Just like any other poster, it depends on the title, rarity, artwork, condition, the for sale venue, the economy, the time of day, etc.

This is like asking "what are one-sheets worth?"

Or

"What is artwork worth?"

Maybe I don't understand the question.

If it really is "what are B2 size Japanese posters worth?", then the answer is literally $0 to maybe $25,000-ish?  That's about the high end that I'm familiar with.  What use this information is I have no idea.

[masterpizza2]

Sorry if my question was unclear. Whereas with one sheets, day bills, and Quad posters, I am familiar with where they typically come from, I know very little about the origin of B2 posters. I have done numerous searches and have difficulty finding anything aside from auction records and documents stating they are popular in Japan.  All my sources for B2 posters mention they buy them directly from theaters, dealers, or find them on street corners. It is hard to attach a value to a poster without knowing more about the origin of them as well as why/if they are hard to come by. Normally if a poster fetches a high price it is either highly sought after, or was used in very limited quantity. Sometimes it is because a handful were made, and all were supposedly discarded.

Can anyone elaborate on B2 posters?

I have noticed many Japanese Dealers/Galleries asking and receiving abnormally high prices (200-400 for something American dealers ask 30-40 for) particularly with recent releases. I am curious if B2 posters have a similar trend among American Galleries/ Dealers.

I'm a bit new to collecting, so please forgive me if I'm saying something foolish. 

[eatbrie]

It depends on the era.  I will not spend more than $20-30 on post-1980 B2s.  Pre 1980, it really depends on the title, but I would go up to $80 to $100 on some rare titles.  However, I do not buy from dealers, so I don't really know what they charge.  B1 are a totally different story, of course.

T

[linder1]

Generally I suppose it's similar to other movie paper with respect to "where they come from".  They're meant for use in theaters and people obtain them one way or another through connections inside.

They're hard to come by for Westerners because of the above compounded with the fact that you have to speak Japanese or know a contact in Japan who speaks English.  And making contacts that are worthwhile can be difficult and time-consuming.

Some titles are rarer than others depending on how wide the release is.  B2's are however generally more common than B1's from the same title.  Fewer of the larger B1's are produced, and even fewer are kept since they are big and space is at a premium.

Pricing is subjective and the same poster can be priced at $15 in the US and $400 in another gallery in the US.  I would expect similar variation in Japan.  Without knowing the titles I can't really address it, so if you have something in particular you're curious about I could maybe talk about it.  I will say that I have observed in Japan a sort of mania for certain new release titles.  The prices can be sky high for something that is just released or about to be released, and then 3-12 months later the price goes down by 80%.  I haven't checked prices lately but I think we saw something similar in price behavior here in the US when Brokeback Mountain was released and the one sheets were in high demand.

Hope that helps.

[ddilts399]

I dont understand why anyone collects Japanese paper, I would stay away. Especially the older stuff. 

[Zorba]

I dont understand why anyone collects Japanese paper, I would stay away. Especially the older stuff. 

Suddenly I am interested in seeing your collection of B2's. 

[lynaron]

If you haven't already done so, contact Armin Junge of Posteroid.com.  He's quite the storehouse of Japanese paper info and a hell of a nice guy, also.

Lynn

[brude]

Yes, Armin's top-shelf. One of the true giants in the hobby. And that Kovacs dude is right there in Japan, wheelin' and dealin' daily....right, Schan?

[Posteroid]

Can anyone elaborate on B2 posters?

Hi masterpizza2!
I am happy to answer any of your questions if you can be a bit more precise.

Armin

[MoviePosterBid.com]

If you haven't already done so, contact Armin Junge of Posteroid.com.  He's quite the storehouse of Japanese paper info and a hell of a nice guy, also.

Lynn

Lyn.. obviously I know you collect Uni-horror.. do you also collect alot of Japanese posters?

[lynaron]

I do now, thanks to meeting Armin .  At this point I've only a few from Ray Harryhausen flix, but hope springs eternal and you just never know what might show up to drain the wallet. 

Lynn

[MoviePosterBid.com]

I do now, thanks to meeting Armin .  At this point I've only a few from Ray Harryhausen flix, but hope springs eternal and you just never know what might show up to drain the wallet. 
Lynn

LOL.. last line is so true.. myself, I don't collect Japanese posters per se, but I do have maybe 20 or so. Naturally most are either gambling or Raymond Chandler. A few are Kurasawa and some are just oddball cool art, naked women or like that. Overall I think Japanese posters are expensive, which means I think they are overpriced, so I don't bother with them. Therefore it has to cross-over to something else that I am interested in.

[Posteroid]

Overall I think Japanese posters are expensive, which means I think they are overpriced

Rich, I don't know what you are basing that assumption on. As someone who has been collecting Japanese paper for a long time, I can tell you that they are just as over- or underpriced as US posters. Supply and demand set the value.
Also, the Japanese collectors market works quite differently from the US one. Some titles there are incredibly rare and hard to find. I have paid hundreds of $ for certain Japanese posters where the US one-sheet would only cost ten or twenty bucks.

Armin

[brude]

Naturally most are either gambling or Raymond Chandler. A few are Kurasawa and some are just oddball cool art, naked women or like that.

Naked women?  Now, why doesn't that surprise me....

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Rich, I don't know what you are basing that assumption on. As someone who has been collecting Japanese paper for a long time, I can tell you that they are just as over- or underpriced as US posters. Supply and demand set the value.
Also, the Japanese collectors market works quite differently from the US one. Some titles there are incredibly rare and hard to find. I have paid hundreds of $ for certain Japanese posters where the US one-sheet would only cost ten or twenty bucks.

Armin

Armin.. my comment is based on the US counterpart. Most Japanese posters I see are post 1960 and anything good that I see prices considerably above the US poster and while I understand your point about "rarity", I just think that the perception of rarity is in great part due to good stewardship by the Japanese dealers not ruining what they have like the Belgian poster dealers did since eBay.

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Naked women?  Now, why doesn't that surprise me....

Ted.. if you tell me you don't like naked women.. then you'll just have to move in with Carson

[linder1]

Armin.. my comment is based on the US counterpart. Most Japanese posters I see are post 1960 and anything good that I see prices considerably above the US poster and while I understand your point about "rarity", I just think that the perception of rarity is in great part due to good stewardship by the Japanese dealers not ruining what they have like the Belgian poster dealers did since eBay.

Rich, you and I have had a similar discussion before.  I wonder what evidence you have to back up your theory about Japanese dealers not killing the golden goose a la the Belgians?  Or is it just a theory?

Personally I don't think it's a perception and that someday we're going to have a massive onslaught of "quality" material coming on the scene like the cases of the Belgians (or stretch it to Mexican lobbies, whatever you like).

There is no doubt that there is a barrier to entry for Western collectors in the language and closed nature of the society, but I don't think this is particularly severe.  There are multiple members on this forum who have pretty decent dealings in Japanese material.  And the fact is that many Japanese dealers do sell on eBay or have in the past sold on eBay.  They come, they go.  We've yet to see a flood of '50's '60's etc quality material all of a sudden come on the scene.

I'd like to know your thoughts.

-Erich

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Erich.. you're extrapolating some things I did not say from things I did say.

FACT: Belgian posters have dropped in value steadily since fleaBay. For the most part, Belgian posterssold for much more money 10 & 20 years ago than they do today. The reason being of course that every dealer who has Belgian posters keeps offering them ad-nauseum in quantities the market can no longer absorb (since maybe 2000-2002) and as a result, the prices have crashed on 95%+ of Belgian posters and maybe 99% as you really have to get to great post-war titles for any value support. Of course, pre-war posters are a different category entirely and value has been & will continue to be retained because they are very rare for almost any title.

Japanese posters are newer to the market for the majority of collectors who now collect them. Aside from Godzilla posters and the occasional Kurasawa, I don't recall seeing them too often before maybe 6-7 years ago and since then we have seen quite alot of them as they are sold regularly by Bruce, Heritage and by dealers on fleaBay. No doubt for a certain number of years, presuming the supply is not really any greater than it is currently, prices will remain constant.

However, if a number of Japanese dealers begins to flood the market by keeping constant quantities of posters on fleaBay and they lower prices to adjust to sales quantities - then values will drop just as they did with Belgian posters. It's a simple economic equation. Japanese poster dealers I think have exhibited much more control or discipline in this way than the sellers of Belgians did.

Now where you extrapolate is that you think I'm saying there is a huge warehouse supply just waiting to be purged into the market.. I don't know if this is or is not the case, but by all measures of printing all over the world, the Japanese have always been very prodigious printers of paper and also like places all over the world, there have been warehouses of paper just waiting to be found and distributed. I can't figure that Japan would be any different in this regard. But as I said, the Japanese dealers have been very good stewards of the material, keeping prices up so they only need to sell a minimum to achieve whatever price targets they have. If they have a warehouse of material - more power to them. However if they do have a warehouse of material and they decide to forget discipline & sell like the Belgian posters were, the prices will plummet like the hammer Newton dropped from his window.

[oldposterho]

I've got to agree on the general point that there has been a general decrease in price, at least for Kurosawa posters.  When I first started collecting again, there were no Japanese dealers on e**y, and you had to hunt them down on the intertubes.  Needless to say I paid way more than what they go for now once the dealers did get on e**y, and a seemingly endless supply of late Kurosawa posters has flooded in.

To the point of "finds," I've got to axe if anybody knows the story behind the seeming endless supply of original release "Kumonsujo" ("Throne of Blood") B2s that have appeared lately?  When the first one rolled out to the masses I was sorely tempted to grab it, happily the fates prevented it and now they go for a fraction of what that one went for.  Dodged a bullet...For once.  Usually I'm the guy that gets suckered into getting the first one off the pile.

--Peter

[linder1]

...I just think that the perception of rarity is in great part due to good stewardship by the Japanese dealers not ruining what they have like the Belgian poster dealers did since eBay.

Rich,

I didn't mean to put words in your mouth regarding a warehouse type supply, so let's strike that for arguments' sake.  And I'm certainly not disputing any of your FACTS regarding the Belgian example.

Let's focus on the above statement.  I'd like to know if you have evidence that this is the situation (Japanese dealers exercising quasi-cartel-style control) rather than there being a relatively low supply versus Belgian paper.

Hope that makes sense.

-Erich

[MoviePosterBid.com]

No Erich, I don't have any information one way or the other except for what I see of the Japanese poster dealers who handle their business in a much more studious and controlled fashion than most people. Even on the occasions I have met those I have done business with, they were tough-dealing. Thankfully I only traded with them which ameliorated my out of pocket costs for what I was chasing.


Don't forget, I've been doing what I'm doing for almost 45 years. It's not ESP, although I do watch ESPN

[linder1]

I take your point and I agree that Japanese dealers are more methodical.

One item to consider however is that real Japanese dealers are a dying breed -- almost all the shops in Tokyo have closed from what I hear.  There are a few left.  One would think that as these people had increasing trouble paying the bills that they would unload inventory at these "high" prices.  But I don't think we see that.

Also given all the outlets and very high volume of sales of movie paper in Japan, I don't think there's enough structure for a cartel.  I can only think of one example where one guy has clearly a large collection of high end material that he constantly has for sale at a high price, and he's pretty much THE guy for these titles.  And he's very very patient and rarely drops prices.  For some titles, never.  However, his behavior could be indicative of the larger population -- the difference and the challenge being that this guy always has his material available, albeit at a relatively high price.  A lot of material you just do not see except once, say, every 5 or 10 years.  And when it comes up in Japan people go apeshit for it, with prices realized higher than what you could get here.  That's why a lot of titles from the '50s you just do not see in the US.  No one would pay the price necessary to make it worthwhile to import. 

Musings on the Japanese market at 3:45 am.  FWIW.

[stewart boyle]

Can i just chip in here,and sorry for contributing to taking this thread off topic,but the past conversation has been incredibly interesting to read
A very informative window into the worlds marketplace.

Stew

[archie leach]

What a B2 sold by Armin may look like...



The search is finally over.  I've been looking for one of these since BR Girl posted an image of her B1 on MPT back in, what, 2004, I think.

I couldn't care less that it's a B2 rather than a B1.  Other than in cases of unique artwork, there are very few B1's worth the additional price premiums being lavished upon them, particularly for very recent releases.