Author Topic: Auction House Practices  (Read 29341 times)

Offline Crazy Vick

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Re: Auction House Practices
« Reply #50 on: December 09, 2014, 09:11:39 PM »
thanks for all the info fellas.  I have a really hard time understanding the logic of Buyer's Premium other than some now institutionalized screw you tax.  I mean I consign, you do the work, you take a percentage, buyer gets the poster.  How in all this does HA once again find a way to squeeze more money out of the transaction?  If it was a set admin fee or something I could understand, but are they not better served making sure the buyers are happy bidding themselves up?  Wouldn't they make extra money there?  Its like the phantom power of the auction market.  I don\t get it.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 09:13:20 PM by Crazy Vick »

Offline CSM

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Re: Auction House Practices
« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2014, 10:19:39 PM »
thanks for all the info fellas.  I have a really hard time understanding the logic of Buyer's Premium other than some now institutionalized screw you tax.  I mean I consign, you do the work, you take a percentage, buyer gets the poster.  How in all this does HA once again find a way to squeeze more money out of the transaction?  If it was a set admin fee or something I could understand, but are they not better served making sure the buyers are happy bidding themselves up?  Wouldn't they make extra money there?  Its like the phantom power of the auction market.  I don\t get it.

It's your entry fee for the privilege of participating in their auctions  ;D
Chris

Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Auction House Practices
« Reply #52 on: December 09, 2014, 10:29:45 PM »
Don't think you will get a reduced fee for CFTBL.
For an Action #1 you would get no seller's premium and a % of the buyer's premium - but that is a more competitive marketplace than posters.
Remember, Bruce has never sold even a single poster for $100,000.
Heritage gets all the top posters and there is a reason they do.

yep

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Offline Ari

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Re: Auction House Practices
« Reply #53 on: December 09, 2014, 10:48:27 PM »
This thread is boring without someone trying to scare people away from HA.
Who was that (un)masked man?
An Error Has Occurred!
You can't report your own post to the moderator, that doesn't make sense!

Offline Harry Caul

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Re: Auction House Practices
« Reply #54 on: December 09, 2014, 11:15:57 PM »
Full disclosure, I also dislike BPs.  

At the same time, BPs have existed long before HA and in much bigger venues as well.  If you must blame someone, probably best to start with Sotheby's and Christies who first started the practice in 1975.  Today is mostly just par for the course with big auction houses.  I even get charged BPs at many small local auctions as well.  In that respect, eMovie and MPB should be held up as the exception :)

Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Auction House Practices
« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2014, 12:58:15 AM »
Sotheby's and Christies who first started the practice in 1975.  

in America. I'm pretty sure that BP has been part of European auctions for a couple hundred years, although I think it was called a buyer's tax

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Mirosae

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Re: Auction House Practices
« Reply #56 on: December 10, 2014, 02:40:02 AM »
in America. I'm pretty sure that BP has been part of European auctions for a couple hundred years, although I think it was called a buyer's tax

In Europe you pay 20% VAT tax on the BP too. So we get hit twice. So they really take the *****

Mirosae

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Re: Auction House Practices
« Reply #57 on: December 10, 2014, 02:46:03 AM »


Otherwise their consignment fee is 20% for sig auction items and 25% for weekly auctions.  On top of that they charge the buyer a 19.5% BP.  So if you see something in their archive as being sold for $500 including BP, their BP was $82.  Of the $418 left, they took another $83 assuming it was a sig auction item.  If not they would have taken $105.  So their final take in the transaction would be 33% ($165) or 37% ($186). 

Very helpful. Didn't know they charge 20% fee. I spent few minutes searching their page with no luck.

I see why consigning back through them whatever you bought in their Sig auction can be a good deal

Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Auction House Practices
« Reply #58 on: December 10, 2014, 05:45:24 AM »
Very helpful. Didn't know they charge 20% fee. I spent few minutes searching their page with no luck.

I see why consigning back through them whatever you bought in their Sig auction can be a good deal

that's correct. you pay no fee, and they get the BP, so everyone is happy

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Offline erik1925

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Re: Auction House Practices
« Reply #59 on: December 12, 2014, 09:26:10 AM »
I thought I had read that if you consign back a piece you bought from HA, the seller's fee was reduced by 50%?

Not 100% sure, tho. Or maybe this applies only to items acquired from their Sig auctions?



-Jeff

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Re: Auction House Practices
« Reply #60 on: December 12, 2014, 01:18:19 PM »
up to 50%

Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Auction House Practices
« Reply #61 on: December 12, 2014, 02:24:01 PM »
I thought I had read that if you consign back a piece you bought from HA, the seller's fee was reduced by 50%?

Not 100% sure, tho. Or maybe this applies only to items acquired from their Sig auctions?

no fee. they make their living on the BP for reconsigned items that are originally won in the Signature Auctions

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Mirosae

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Re: Auction House Practices
« Reply #62 on: December 12, 2014, 02:29:44 PM »
Oh..really...maybe they are charging some customers? It says up to 50% on all mine. But i take your word for it Rich! thumbsup.gif

Offline Neo

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Re: Auction House Practices
« Reply #63 on: April 13, 2015, 12:36:45 AM »
Here's a thread with an interesting article from a few years ago:

Sham auction practices in fine art world

http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,5560.0.html


Mirosae

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Re: Auction House Practices
« Reply #64 on: April 13, 2015, 06:46:31 AM »
Here's a thread with an interesting article from a few years ago:

Sham auction practices in fine art world

http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,5560.0.html



Thanks for the reminder Brandon. Very helpful.  I wasn't aware of these sort of practices..  :-\

Offline crowzilla

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Re: Auction House Practices
« Reply #65 on: April 14, 2015, 03:51:08 PM »
While there is always the possibility of abuse in any system, I'd be much more concerned about an auction house that runs unlicensed/unregulated auctions in a state where licensing is mandatory than one that is licensed and regulated.

That being said, if Joe Bob gives his poster to Bruce, Heritage, Rich or whomever and wants to bid on it to "protect" it, there is very little anyone can do to stop them. I know Heritage has in place a system where you can't bid on items that you are consigning, not sure if Bruce is that sophisticated or not
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Offline erik1925

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Re: Auction House Practices
« Reply #66 on: April 14, 2015, 03:53:42 PM »
While there is always the possibility of abuse in any system, I'd be much more concerned about an auction house that runs unlicensed/unregulated auctions in a state where licensing is mandatory than one that is licensed and regulated.

That being said, if Joe Bob gives his poster to Bruce, Heritage, Rich or whomever and wants to bid on it to "protect" it, there is very little anyone can do to stop them. I know Heritage has in place a system where you can't bid on items that you are consigning, not sure if Bruce is that sophisticated or not

Good to know, Sean.. but (some unknown) one can always be asked to bid on a consignor's behalf, to skirt that safety mechanism, if they so chose, right?


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Offline Neo

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Re: Auction House Practices
« Reply #67 on: February 17, 2018, 12:49:29 AM »
Well we saw a couple of those results in the past year, with both a Scarlet Empress one-sheet and an unbacked Casablanca one-sheet.
The Casablanca was eagerly scooped up for a bargain price by a dealer and I wouldn't be surprised if we found out the Empress was also.

The last heavy-hitter I can remember with a reserve at HA was when Todd went fishing with his Bride of Frankenstein teaser, and was unable to hook a buyer at his high ask.

Time-payment plans would probably help Bruce with some lower-high end stuff (is that a word?) in the $5-20,000 range, but I don't believe the few people who are willing/able to spend $100K on a poster make use of such plans.

 hmmm.gif

I'm pretty sure there were not minimum bid or reserve prices on either of those you mentioned in the first sentence, at eMovie.


Also, I just happened to see an interesting talk on another forum:


"When I have consigned to Heritage I have been given the option of placing a published minimum or using a hidden reserve. Typically, a published minimum will be put in place a few or several days prior to an auction lot going off and folks will have to bid higher than that minimum to place the bid whereas a hidden reserve allows folks to place active bids even if they are below the reserve. In either case, if the reserve is not exceeded, the lot goes back to me and I am charged a modified buyer's premium, if you will, of approximately 10% or thereabouts of the reserve."

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/976830/heritage-auction-lost-on-my-bid-but-coin-is-now-back-in-dealers-inventory

Offline crowzilla

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Re: Auction House Practices
« Reply #68 on: February 17, 2018, 02:36:44 PM »
I'm pretty sure there were not minimum bid or reserve prices on either of those you mentioned in the first sentence, at eMovie.

Also, I just happened to see an interesting talk on another forum:

"When I have consigned to Heritage I have been given the option of placing a published minimum or using a hidden reserve. Typically, a published minimum will be put in place a few or several days prior to an auction lot going off and folks will have to bid higher than that minimum to place the bid whereas a hidden reserve allows folks to place active bids even if they are below the reserve. In either case, if the reserve is not exceeded, the lot goes back to me and I am charged a modified buyer's premium, if you will, of approximately 10% or thereabouts of the reserve."

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/976830/heritage-auction-lost-on-my-bid-but-coin-is-now-back-in-dealers-inventory

Agree, there was no minimum bid or reserve on those pieces, I was replying to your part of the comment about it would be interesting to see ultra expensive stuff at eMovie. I think those were the two highest profile/finishing pieces they have offered in the last year or so. IMO they under-performed, but Bruce freely admits that those types of auctions aren't his focus anymore, and no advertising/no payment terms probably don't help.

I also don't think it's any secret that Heritage has had minimum bids on items before (if not talked about in this forum, it certainly was on the old one), but I know that Grey actively discourages sellers from using them. It shouldn't be a surprise that there is a penalty to the seller if they choose to use a reserve and it is not met, otherwise you will have people trying to fill up Heritage's catalogs with lots of items having pie-in-the-sky reserves as the consignors fish for suckers using Heritage's considerable resources.
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Offline erik1925

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Re: Auction House Practices
« Reply #69 on: February 17, 2018, 02:41:04 PM »
What's interesting, too, Sean, with regard to those items submitted to HA with reserves in heir Sig Auctions, is that those posters are often passed over. Seems even there, people dont want to play that game, trying to figure out what the minimum is, and rather go for the vast majority, where no reserve has been put in place.


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Re: Auction House Practices
« Reply #70 on: February 17, 2018, 02:46:03 PM »
Good to know, Sean.. but (some unknown) one can always be asked to bid on a consignor's behalf, to skirt that safety mechanism, if they so chose, right?

and if they do so, they jeopardize their bankroll as they would have to pay for anything they 'accidentally win' which would be a major outlay on some items

for instance, let's say you consign an item that opens at $3000 and you want it to go to $6000, have your cut-out bid $5000 and then bidding unexpectedly stops.

you pay $5950 to Heritage and get a check back for $4000 (20% consignor fee off the $5000 hammer price)

so you just lost $1950, cash.. and you did not sell your item

doesn't seem to be a sound method of making money


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Offline erik1925

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Re: Auction House Practices
« Reply #71 on: February 24, 2018, 01:25:21 PM »
and if they do so, they jeopardize their bankroll as they would have to pay for anything they 'accidentally win' which would be a major outlay on some items

for instance, let's say you consign an item that opens at $3000 and you want it to go to $6000, have your cut-out bid $5000 and then bidding unexpectedly stops.

you pay $5950 to Heritage and get a check back for $4000 (20% consignor fee off the $5000 hammer price)

so you just lost $1950, cash.. and you did not sell your item

doesn't seem to be a sound method of making money

Is this the typical consignor fee? Or is that ever negotiated, based on things like erstimated value, rarity of an item (poster or otherwise) etc?


-Jeff

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Re: Auction House Practices
« Reply #72 on: February 24, 2018, 02:38:21 PM »
Is this the typical consignor fee? Or is that ever negotiated, based on things like erstimated value, rarity of an item (poster or otherwise) etc?

that's the standard fee at that price level.

I know in the comics area, a friend of mine consigned a book that sold for over a million $ and made a special deal that he paid no fee and even got half of the BP!

so who has a million dollar poster?

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Offline erik1925

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Re: Auction House Practices
« Reply #73 on: February 24, 2018, 02:47:10 PM »
that's the standard fee at that price level.

I know in the comics area, a friend of mine consigned a book that sold for over a million $ and made a special deal that he paid no fee and even got half of the BP!

so who has a million dollar poster?


Todd Feiertag?  ;D


-Jeff

Offline Neo

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Re: Auction House Practices
« Reply #74 on: September 17, 2018, 12:34:23 PM »
Regarding "house bids" - one Heritage Auctions' employee spoke a little about it, and there is some interesting discussion: http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=153984

ha , on Flickr

« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 01:24:30 PM by Neo »