Paypal Protection Outside of Ebay

[scartacus]

An ebay auction ended which didn't meet the reserve. I have subsequently agreed a deal with the seller but he doesn't want to incur the fees of listing the poster as a buy it now. Do I have any protection if I send him the money via paypal and the poster never arrives? Does paypal protection only apply to ebay sales?

Thanks   

[paul waines]

You have very little protection even if it is through ebay. I was ripped off by some guy who I paid 36.00 to for a poster that never turned up, and I received £1 back as compensation. Yes a whole Pound, case closed. If they cannot get the money out of the seller, that's your lot.

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Paypal procedures are arbitrary at best during claims

[scartacus]

Caveat emptor. I get it.

[MoviePosterBid.com]

several years back, when I was still selling golden age comic book downloads, I had a customer in the UK who would order $25-50 a week ($3.95 each). This went on for 3 months and totalled about $450

One day, out of the blue, Paypal took every sale to him out of my account as he claimed someone was fraudently using his credit card. Well that was a secondary Paypal account just for the download sales so I just let it lay until there was a resolution.

Naturally I'm on the phone, multiple emails back and forth and it went on for about a month.
Finally, they determined that only some () were fraudulent sales and they returned about 60% of the money to me. Of course, that made no sense what-so-ever and the resolution made my account about -$120 or maybe more.

so what I did was I stopped using that account, and they never got the $120.

well 3 years go by and Paypal realizes I have my main account, so I see an account hold on my account. Naturally I call Paypal and I ask what's up and they say they want the $$ from the other account. Well I explain that I got screwed and Paypal was treating me unfairly and I said:

"Look, I do $xxx,xxx with Paypal every year".. and I ask him to tell me what the real number was and he tells me and I ask "how much does Paypal get from me in fees every year?" and it was obviously substantial. I explain that I could easily get my bank to give me a credit card merchant account (don't know why I don't have one actually) and that Paypal stands to lose substantial fees by pissing me off.

Unbelievably, the Paypal customer service guy says "let me get my supervisor on the line" and we resolve it that Paypal will make an administrative decision and wipe out the negative balance on the other account.. "Thank you sir, have a nice day from Paypal". They actually had an intelligent person managing over there!!

I was of course shocked and pleased, which is generally not the combination of feelings we usually have with Paypal.............

[guest8]

Im about to be royally screwed by them .. I sold a print for $350 and with insurance and it going over seas the shipping came up to $40 (which i offered as free shipping) .. at first the buyer dodged my invoices and when I finally reached him he stated that no where in the auction did it say the winner must pay by a certain time .. It took nearly 3 weeks for him to send payment and I was being nice riding it out I had already told him I would place  a non-paying bidder strike against him if he didnt pay by a certain date then he said he would pay but couldnt until a week past my deadline.. So I let him (i shouldnt have) .. now a month after he had received the print hes claiming its damaged and wants a partial refund .. we argued through ebay for a week then nothing for two weeks now today he escalated it and ebay decided in his favor stating that I must give him a full refund including the $40 I paid out for shipping when he ships the print back .. So I had to pay the ebay fees and the shipping fees and now Ill have to resell it once again!!! All because this guy was a jagoff and changed his mind .. and I cant even leave him negative feedback but I bet he will for me .. there goes my 100% rating for the next 12 months!

[scartacus]

Paul, mind me asking which £36 poster failed to show up and are you able to out the seller?

[CSM]

Im about to be royally screwed by them .. I sold a print for $350 and with insurance and it going over seas the shipping came up to $40 (which i offered as free shipping) .. at first the buyer dodged my invoices and when I finally reached him he stated that no where in the auction did it say the winner must pay by a certain time .. It took nearly 3 weeks for him to send payment and I was being nice riding it out I had already told him I would place  a non-paying bidder strike against him if he didnt pay by a certain date then he said he would pay but couldnt until a week past my deadline.. So I let him (i shouldnt have) .. now a month after he had received the print hes claiming its damaged and wants a partial refund .. we argued through ebay for a week then nothing for two weeks now today he escalated it and ebay decided in his favor stating that I must give him a full refund including the $40 I paid out for shipping when he ships the print back .. So I had to pay the ebay fees and the shipping fees and now Ill have to resell it once again!!! All because this guy was a jagoff and changed his mind .. and I cant even leave him negative feedback but I bet he will for me .. there goes my 100% rating for the next 12 months!

Painful, very painful. 

I hope the jackass doesn't damage to poster too much when he sends it back to you so you atleast have a chance of reselling it.

[guest8]

Thats the only good thing .. Unless he purposely damages it to eff' with me .. It should be in great condition and resealable .. But Ill be losing so much $ out of the deal already with shipping and fees that Im really out too much money .. But I guess its better than not having any at all ..

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Im about to be royally screwed by them .. I sold a print for $350 and with insurance and it going over seas the shipping came up to $40 (which i offered as free shipping) .. at first the buyer dodged my invoices and when I finally reached him he stated that no where in the auction did it say the winner must pay by a certain time .. It took nearly 3 weeks for him to send payment and I was being nice riding it out I had already told him I would place  a non-paying bidder strike against him if he didnt pay by a certain date then he said he would pay but couldnt until a week past my deadline.. So I let him (i shouldnt have) .. now a month after he had received the print hes claiming its damaged and wants a partial refund .. we argued through ebay for a week then nothing for two weeks now today he escalated it and ebay decided in his favor stating that I must give him a full refund including the $40 I paid out for shipping when he ships the print back .. So I had to pay the ebay fees and the shipping fees and now Ill have to resell it once again!!! All because this guy was a jagoff and changed his mind .. and I cant even leave him negative feedback but I bet he will for me .. there goes my 100% rating for the next 12 months!

I've filed several cases as the buyer and received the same decision: "We have carefully considered this matter. Buyer receives full refund upon return of item.  Buyer must send back with delivery confirmation.  Buyer pays for return shipping cost."

I think it's their default decision.

[guest8]

Yeah .. My only hope now is that the buyer wont want to pay for return shipping Although he will probably pack it crappy and not insure it at all so it will be significantly cheaper than how I sent it .. Also, what happens to me if it does get damaged in transit .. Or if he just decided to ship an empty tube to me? the tracking # would work and theyd give him the $$ and then Id really have been ripped off .. It is definitely a very flawed system .. Im seriously considering not selling on ebay at all anymore because of it .. I dont see how Dale any all the big eBay sellers can grind it out with people like this guy and the serious lack of safety for the seller.

[Cj]

An ebay auction ended which didn't meet the reserve. I have subsequently agreed a deal with the seller but he doesn't want to incur the fees of listing the poster as a buy it now. Do I have any protection if I send him the money via paypal and the poster never arrives? Does paypal protection only apply to ebay sales?

Thanks   

Use a credit card when paying through paypal. Your credit card company will give you additional protection. If the item does not arrive you can file a claim with the CC company if Paypal does not back you.

Cj

[kovacs01]

Im about to be royally screwed by them .. I sold a print for $350 and with insurance and it going over seas the shipping came up to $40 (which i offered as free shipping) .. at first the buyer dodged my invoices and when I finally reached him he stated that no where in the auction did it say the winner must pay by a certain time .. It took nearly 3 weeks for him to send payment and I was being nice riding it out I had already told him I would place  a non-paying bidder strike against him if he didnt pay by a certain date then he said he would pay but couldnt until a week past my deadline.. So I let him (i shouldnt have) .. now a month after he had received the print hes claiming its damaged and wants a partial refund .. we argued through ebay for a week then nothing for two weeks now today he escalated it and ebay decided in his favor stating that I must give him a full refund including the $40 I paid out for shipping when he ships the print back .. So I had to pay the ebay fees and the shipping fees and now Ill have to resell it once again!!! All because this guy was a jagoff and changed his mind .. and I cant even leave him negative feedback but I bet he will for me .. there goes my 100% rating for the next 12 months!

no pay.  no ship.  if you follow that rule, then it makes things easier for you.

[guest8]

no pay.  no ship.  if you follow that rule, then it makes things easier for you.

Im not quite sure I understand this comment ..

[paul waines]

Hello Dominic, I cannot remember the name the guy used, but his account etc was stopped, and I was told he was no longer a registered user. It seems he had copied some pics of posters, and was selling them as if they were his. When the money came in for them he cashed it and vanished.  Another Ebay member contacted me who had the same problem with him, which is how we know what went on.  This was just before ebay hidden all the names of bidders.   

The poster was,  and don't laugh. "Donald duck goes west".

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Learning from Fallen's unfortunate predicament, I'm going to put a clause in my future Ebay postings like this:

"Winner must pay by Paypal within three days of conclusion of auction. Absolutely no exceptions, so please do not bid if you cannot or will not pay within three days. If you fail to pay within three days, I will report you as a "no-pay" to Ebay and either re-list the item or offer it to other bidders."

[scartacus]

Paul,

Donald Duck Goes West? That is way OUT there. Sounds like our tastes/bidding habits overlap on yet another area -- ie vintage disney. Which year are we talking for the cowboy duck?

[kovacs01]

Im not quite sure I understand this comment ..

From your story it sounds like you shipped it to him before he paid for it.

[guest8]

Well Mel even with that "clause" youll have people that will "not see it" or bid and ask if you will wait .. also .. i think you have to wait 7 days to file non-paying bidder claims anyways. then not to mention possible negative feedback from those jerks who dont read or think they can do what they want.

Sorry Kovacs .. Im a bit slow sometimes but not that slow

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Well Mel even with that "clause" youll have people that will "not see it" or bid and ask if you will wait .. also .. i think you have to wait 7 days to file non-paying bidder claims anyways. then not to mention possible negative feedback from those jerks who dont read or think they can do what they want.

Sorry Kovacs .. Im a bit slow sometimes but not that slow

The system won't let you "leave feedback" until after you've paid for the item, so sellers are protected from negative feedback if they act before the sellers pay.  So you put a specific time clause (three or seven or whatever) in your posting, report them after ___ days if they don't pay and terminate the sale, and re-list or offer it to someone else.  Any problem with that approach? 

[guest8]

Sounds pretty solid .. Unless they do pay and hold a grudge for you filing a non-paying bidder claim or threatening to.. there's always these worst case scenarios no matter how careful we try to be..

[paul waines]

Paul,

Donald Duck Goes West? That is way OUT there. Sounds like our tastes/bidding habits overlap on yet another area -- ie vintage disney. Which year are we talking for the cowboy duck?

It does seem that way, maybe we should talk instead of out bidding each other 

I think the poster was from 1965? if I remember right.

[guest8]

The system won't let you "leave feedback" until after you've paid for the item, so sellers are protected from negative feedback if they act before the sellers pay.  So you put a specific time clause (three or seven or whatever) in your posting, report them after ___ days if they don't pay and terminate the sale, and re-list or offer it to someone else.  Any problem with that approach? 

Showing one of the worst case scenerios when using the NPB strikes as a tool to keep bidders in line ..
I found this on EB from member zapper:

travenor09

this guy is a royal pain in the ass. Deal with him if you want, but dont say id didnt warn you.

This is what happened to me, this guy has been a pain in the ass since day 1:
- he makes a purchase from me on a buy-it-now auction
- does not pay for it, does not respond
- I finally submit a NPB 4 days after the normal 4 day wait period (this is a normal process to me now, since so many clowns bid but dont pay)
- he sends a message saying he plans to submit payment in about a week on Thurs, i say ok, thats fine
- Thurs rolls around, nothing. All weekend, nothing.
- finally sends me a threatening message "wtf? ...this and that...blah blah"
- then he finally pays for the item, and at the same time sends a message telling me he sent payment and he still wants it.
- So i pack it up and ship it out 3 days after (my ad states there is a 3 day "handling" period, and this is normal)
- he sends me a threatening vulgar message in the middle of the night (crackhead perhaps?)- well it sounded crackhead style, like he was mad he broke his crackpipe or something.
- I send him a message back letting him know his item is on its way, and should be there in a few days.
- then he went ahead and felt the need to post neg feedback - its not like i cussed him out or anything, i just pretty much told him "hey, you just paid, its not going to show up instantly as soon as you send a paypal" I have some reason to believe this guy was planning some sort of extorting or something in the area, seeing how he acted from day 1. I wont be a bit surprised if he cant wait to file a BS paypal claim when he receives the item- i told him to not even open it, refuse delivery and send it back, i will give him a full refund rather than deal with his unwarranted and unreasonable bitching - tracking will show where the package is and he'll get a refund. and i'm not 100% (about 99.99%) sure i have seen this guys SN bid and not pay before on at least one occasion with just my items. Who else does he try and squeeze discounts or free items from?

I hope you (travenor09) reads this -

and hopefully others will stay away from this guy.

[CSM]

Wonder if that guy had bid on a replacement crack pipe?

[guest8]

LOL .. I dont personally know any crack heads .. but if I did .. I doubt any would be trolling eBay for posters