Your thoughts on OUTING Ebay auctions

[Zorba]

Yep, lock it, it shouldn't just be Ebay either, but with the exceptions of..

Emovie
Movieposterbid
MPE
HA

The gob-shites on here have cost me far too much over the years...

Agree!  Lock it! with those exceptions of contributors to this place.

and as for gob shites....Well put!

[eatbrie]

Still not a clear vote one way or the other.  One thing is for sure, I think we can all agree that it is a polarizing subject.  So even if I don't lock it, we'll have to come up with a strategy that works for everyone.  It is obvious that some people, including yours truly, hate it, while others are more ambivalent about it.  I'll keep the poll open until the end of next week and then make a decision based on your comments.

T

[MoviePosterBid.com]

an internet forum is a place to share information.
People are always asking us old timers for info and when available, we happily give it
you don't have to like the information that is being shared just as I don't have to like chocolate ice cream.
for those who are for internet neutrality (and I'm certain all of you are) censoring the thread (mid-auction) is no different than corporations wanting net neutrality to end so that web traffic can benefit them more than others.

2c

[holiday]

Things change. Times change.  People change.  It's called evolution.  Get over it.

On this issue, I will abide by the majority vote, as will Thierry.

This has nothing to do with Holiday.  Holiday is entitled to his opinion, as I am to mine.  And no, Mel, I am not running the show, whatever that's supposed to mean.  If I was running the show, I would have locked that thread without asking.  I'm letting you guys decide and I will comply without a fight.  I've already said what I had to say.

And again, please let us know what you're bidding on next.

T

[Zorba]

Things change. Times change.  People change.  It's called evolution.  Get over it.

On this issue, I will abide by the majority vote, as will Thierry.

    

[erik1925]

Seems "the perp" is MIA (in the discussion mix here) for the last 24 hrs..

 

[holiday]

Thierry and I talked today and he brought up the fact that frequent this forum much more than actual members, and there's where the competition could come from. I don't think the folks here mind the competition from one another. But Thierry's point is that we're outing auctions to people who do not participate here, and then who compete against us with information provided by us. 

We're considering locking down the forum so that only members can see posts.  We're also going to look at whether we can lock down particular threads while leaving other areas open.

We shall see....

[Zorba]

Thierry and I talked today and he brought up the fact that frequent this forum much more than actual members, and there's where the competition could come from. I don't think the folks here mind the competition from one another. But Thierry's point is that we're outing auctions to people who do not participate here, and then who compete against us with information provided by us. 

We're considering locking down the forum so that only members can see posts.  We're also going to look at whether we can lock down particular threads while leaving other areas open.

We shall see....

Rational.

Either way. I am pretty sure we are all behind you guys.

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Thierry and I talked today and he brought up the fact that frequent this forum much more than actual members, and there's where the competition could come from. I don't think the folks here mind the competition from one another. But Thierry's point is that we're outing auctions to people who do not participate here, and then who compete against us with information provided by us. 

We're considering locking down the forum so that only members can see posts.  We're also going to look at whether we can lock down particular threads while leaving other areas open.

the end of Net Neutrality on APF

I think believing that the here only know about an item because it was posted here is complete paranoia

locking teh forum so only members can see posts is a poor advertisement for why you need to be in the forum

I have a Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4
there is a club online
however, this is what happens.
you go to the forum and you can see what sub categories there are on the forum...
However, when you join as a non-paid member, you can only see and post in one thread "Hello"
you can't see anything else unless you pay, and therefore yuo can't see if there is any value to paying to be a member
as such, there is no active 3000GT club

it's either open and free, or it's closed and dies

[rdavey26]

I do think locking it to members only is a great idea. That way all those people that are not members cannot see what others are going after or have an interest in.

[AjTheGreat]

I do think locking it to members only is a great idea. That way all those people that are not members cannot see what others are going after or have an interest in.

What he said.....

[marklawd]

Seems "the perp" is MIA (in the discussion mix here) for the last 24 hrs..

I imagine Mel, who has contributed an incredible amount of helpful information in recent years, though the forum and on his websites, has some difficulty understanding the hostile press he has been getting over the last couple of days. I do as well. Ebay is not a secret source for posters.

I agree entirely with Rich's thoughts on this matter. This is a wonderful forum as it is and Thierry/Holiday should be proud of what they have achieved. I suspect many of the non-participating members are younger collectors on more limited budgets who are intimidated from joining in because they feel they do not have the experience to contribute to discussions or perhaps have collections of more recent low-cost mainstream posters which they perceive the active members will find less interesting. These are potentially the "advanced collectors" of the future and it is in all our interests that this hobby grows in popularity and is enjoyed by as many people as possible - young/old, rich/poor, male/female, gay/straight.....

To control the free exchange of information by locking threads or restricting who can view them is not a positive move in my opinion but if that is what Thierry/Holiday decide to do with their forum I will respect their decision as I am their guest.

Mark


 

[pratschm]

<opinion>

I agree with Rich and others that locking the forum as a whole would be detrimental to both the forum itself and the hobby. Think of all the useful information in the 'Common Poster Subjects' subforums alone that would no longer be available to help those interested in the hobby but who don't have the time to be active members.

On the flip side, as with all clubs, membership has its privileges. Having a small number of 'members only' threads for sensitive topics seems completely reasonable. Besides, even if threads or the entire forum is locked, the next day H & T could receive some 200+ requests for membership from people that don't want to actually contribute but simply want to keep stalking the forum. Same problem, different form. Having it limited to members only would also allow the friendly ' FU!!!!!!!!' discussions between friends to continue.

Are people learning things from the mid-auction thread that they probably would not have otherwise? Sure. But I think of it this way - it's more people than you'd like, but probably not as many as you think.

In the end, as Mark said, this is H & T's forum and I am their guest. I stand by whatever decision they make. Besides, how many forums actually offer to make decisions based on its user's input and feedback???

</opinion>

[eatbrie]

I imagine Mel, who has contributed an incredible amount of helpful information in recent years, though the forum and on his websites, has some difficulty understanding the hostile press he has been getting over the last couple of days. I do as well. Ebay is not a secret source for posters.

Um, I disagree with you Mark.  I don't see Mel as any more special than any other member on this forum.  Everyone participates to the extent of their knowledge and free time.  Some more than others, but it doesn't make them any more special, as members or as collectors.  This is not the first time that this topic comes up and Mel has known for years that it really infuriates some people.  I thought it was time to have a serious debate about it and let everyone share their thoughts on the topic.  Holiday has always said that this forum is not a democracy, but I decided to go a different route.  I honestly don't see anything wrong with it.

T

[oldposterho]

Good points both pro and con and a question that does require serious thought. 

As one who detests outing auctions you'd think I'd be for shutting down the thread, but surprisingly (to myself anyway) I voted to keep it open.  'Tis a slippery slope when you start censoring (admittedly in the loosest definition of the word) content, particularly at a site that was created as a counter to a site that was heavily censored.  It seems to me that is a very wrong way to go.

That said, I do wish discretion would be used when outing.  As mentioned by others, high dollar items in highly visible auction sites are probably fair game since there is only the remotest of possibilities that they would sneak by the jackals.  It's the screamingly good deals hidden on e**y or more obscure auction sites (and I do think e**y is becoming more and more obscure) that piss me off the most, as the odds of maybe, just maybe, having a shot at something is actually there.

We are, however, guests at the maison de Thierry et Holiday, and I support their ultimate decision either way.

--Peter

[ddilts399]

I receive PM's about stuff people may think I might be interested in and I REALLY appreciate that as I tend to run thin on hunt and seek time. That being said, I cannot stress how much I hate seeing stuff posted that is actively up for sale regardless if I am interested in the item or not. The only people that make out from those posts are the people selling the item.

The argument of it having no impact is complete BS, sure it might be $5 difference, but who cares, a fiver lost is money that could have been spent elsewhere. The next argument of not effecting your bid if you really want something you are going to get it anyone is just fine for YOU.

I urge people to use the PM function, that is a target audience that you know may have an interest and not a "look world, run this up" posting.

Just be mindful of others bank account is the bottom line regardless of which tax bracket you might think a item is going to end up in.

[jayn_j]

I realize I am not a serious collector in most people's eyes.  My budget is more like $50-150/month.  That puts a lot of auctions out of range.  It also limits my time since I am still raising kids as a single Dad.

Reason I mention this is because I find value in the mid and post threads in order to see the sort of stuff that is emerging, or what is falling out of favor.  I am unlikely to find some discovery others have overlooked simply because I don't have the time to search it out.  I do enjoy reading the threads though.  In addition, my tastes run toward stuff that is not the norm here.  Musicals, old car and airplane related material, while most others are looking for monsters and horror.

Personally, I don't think that there are many cases where outing accomplished any change in bidding.  The serious folks already know, and the casual folks simply don't mount a serious threat.

I obviously voted to leave it open.

[wonka]

Arrogance and ignorance rules supreme 'round here. Sad.

[Bruce]

What would be wrong with simply waiting until after they are over to post about them?

Obviously, people who "out" auctions NEVER post, "Here is something I will be bidding on in two days and I want to make sure all of you see it NOW before it ends"!

Why not simply start a new website or forum whose entire purpose is simply to alert people to great stuff they might otherwise miss? It could be a sub-section of Mel's fine site, or an independent one. It sounds like half the people here would love it!

[Neo]

 

Um, I disagree with you Mark.  I don't see Mel as any more special than any other member on this forum.  Everyone participates to the extent of their knowledge and free time.  Some more than others, but it doesn't make them any more special, as members or as collectors.  This is not the first time that this topic comes up and Mel has known for years that it really infuriates some people.  I thought it was time to have a serious debate about it and let everyone share their thoughts on the topic.  Holiday has always said that this forum is not a democracy, but I decided to go a different route.  I honestly don't see anything wrong with it.

T

I think what Mark meant is that Mel shares a lot of helpful information, but also gets unnecessarily chastised when he shares information that is not in line with some individuals' personal interests.

Out of all the places I've seen where people freely share info., this is the only one where I've seen people whine about "outing" for sale items.  The whole point of having a place like this, is that people of like-minded interest can chat about the stuff.  That's probably why none of the other places I've been to have people constantly complaining about talking about stuff that is for sale.

A lot of the visitors here surely appreciate visiting this joint, and they surely add value to the hobby, even if it's not directly to this forum via their participation here.  A prime example is when the "anti-outing" people are selling items, they surely want as many people as possible to see their items to get the highest price, yet when they're buying items, they want as few people possible knowing about the items, so they can get the best deal.  It's truly disingenuous, and frankly, it's incredible how many times this whole argument has been rehashed here.

[rumble]

What would be wrong with simply waiting until after they are over to post about them?

That's called the "Post-auction thread"! 

[eatbrie]

I don't like to talk about money and collectors' pocketbooks, but the truth is that most items that get outed are the most expensive ones.  It is also true that a lot of members won't go after these items because they are too expensive and don't mind knowing about them just to see what some crazy collectors will fork out to possess them.  But there are collectors out there who don't mind spending a lot of money and who don't like to see their potential win outed because others can't afford it.  As much as I hate doing the money talk, it is a fact.  If I could only afford $100/month on posters, I would obviously not care if someone outs $500+ pieces.  It's fun to watch.  When you find yourself on the other end of the equation, it's annoying to no end.

T

[Bruce]

I don't like to talk about money and collectors' pocketbooks, but the truth is that most items that get outed are the most expensive ones.  It is also true that a lot of members won't go after these items because they are too expensive and don't mind knowing about them just to see what some crazy collectors will fork out to possess them.  But there are collectors out there who don't mind spending a lot of money and who don't like to see their potential win outed because others can't afford it.  As much as I hate doing the money talk, it is a fact.  If I could only afford $100/month on posters, I would obviously not care if someone outs $500+ pieces.  It's fun to watch.  When you find yourself on the other end of the equation, it's annoying to no end.

T

If you started outing all items where you already own them (so are not bidding) that might change a few minds quickly!

[eatbrie]

If you started outing all items where you already own them (so are not bidding) that might change a few minds quickly!

That's a VERY GOOD IDEA, Bruce.  EXCEPT that I usually bid on items I already own if I deem them low enough.

 

[paul waines]

Annoying and costly...

I Totally disagree with Mark, and a few others here, outing an auction is not sharing "knowledgable" information. It's not telling me anything informative about the poster(age, release, type of paper, Print quality, etc) it's simply telling me where something is for sale.

The more people that Know, the more it will cost. Why spoil someones chances of a good deal for the "glory" of letting people know what you have found. Do you outers just want the pat on the head, well done son, your fantastic at sniffing out the bargains..  And if as some have said, all the serious collectors will know about them anyway, why bother telling us on here!!  as we will know.

This whole outing subject is about money, full-stop.   Why should we take the chance of paying more, just because these gob-shites want to feel they have achieved something.

Well how about we all post every poster we are going to buy before we buy it.. I wonder how many will post, as I may run you up just for sport.