Author Topic: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....  (Read 2167479 times)

Offline holiday

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2200 on: April 03, 2012, 10:33:25 AM »
The consent decree begs the question of what is protected by the first sale doctrine.  Nowhere does it state that moviegoods' sale of posters is protected by the first sale doctrine.  Instead, the decree enjoins moviegoods from selling anything that is violative, excepting what is covered by the first sale doctrine.

There simply was no resolution of this issue in that case, because it never went to trial.  It may be that they dropped the case for that very reason - to avoid having an adverse decision entered against it (Disney).

While moviegoods argued that only a transfer is required, to my knowledge there is no authority that supports that position.  The first sale doctrine has always covered just that -- the first sale and thereafter.  Otherwise, it would be the "first transfer doctrine" or some such.

But, it's an interesting argument to be sure.  Perhaps one day it will be settled.

I think I've got the better of the argument here, Mr. Lawyer.  All these arguments were hashed out in the Disney/20th Century Fox v. MovieGoods lawsuit.  MovieGoods argued extensively that the "first sale" doctrine only requires a "transfer" (not sale) into commerce and that Disney/20th Century Fox "transferred" its posters to movie theaters and poster distributors for the promotion of its movies.  

I've included the essential pleadings here:

http://www.posternirvana.com/0DNE/MovieGoods/

Most of the litigation concerned 11x17 flyers, for which there is a stronger "first sale" argument that Disney intended such posters to be distributed to the public.

The parties settled before the issue was decided.  At the end of the day, both Disney and 20th Century Fox signed a consent decree expressly allowing MovieGoods to continue to sell original posters per the "First Sale" doctrine, effectively agreeing with MovieGoods' arguments.  



The settlement itself was very broad and went beyond 11x17 flyers.  It expressly banned the reproduction of Disney's intellectual properties, including the Aladdin one sheets:



And MovieGoods continues to sell original Disney movie posters, including Aladdin, almost certainly through the "First Sale" exception specified in the consent order.  Notably, MovieGoods does NOT sell repros of these posters.






Best regards,

Holiday


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Charlie

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2201 on: April 03, 2012, 11:36:50 AM »
What about the free posters given away at the theater.  This is likely a policy and accepted by the distributors.  If the movie theater gives posters away and then they are sold, does that solve the first sale doctrine issue...  How would the distributors be able to allow "give aways" and then claim that they had only transferred ownership. They could not prove that the poster given away is the one that was transferred.  I know many theaters give posters to employees as incentives.  

I also have noticed that many of the Disney posters have serial numbers; perhaps as a way to police or track them.  So serial number xxx through xxx went to Florida at joe blow theater and now it was sold so that theater is in violation unless it was known that they were given away.  Also if the poster were not to be sold and thrown out, how do you bring penalty on anyone selling it.  "I picked it out of the bin." Does a person not have the right to sell trash?

I think it can only apply when posters are specifically recalled (have to be returned not just destroyed) and can be tracked through serial numbers.  Who is to say that the poster is real or not? Disney can only prove this through the serial number system on their posters and is probably why they had the gumption to bring legal action.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 11:37:40 AM by Charlie »

agentprovocateur

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2202 on: April 03, 2012, 12:45:57 PM »
Fascinating read, I obviously don't understand the long words but think I get the drift!

To change tack from the discussion, has anyone got their beady eyes on any of the emovieposter wares ending tonight? There's some great paper, a couple of the Polish ones I wanted are already out of my league, but I've got something in mind I'm going for ;)

Offline enki

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2203 on: April 03, 2012, 12:55:58 PM »
Fascinating read, I obviously don't understand the long words but think I get the drift!

To change tack from the discussion, has anyone got their beady eyes on any of the emovieposter wares ending tonight? There's some great paper, a couple of the Polish ones I wanted are already out of my league, but I've got something in mind I'm going for ;)

There is definitely something I'm going for tonight too. Not sure if I'll be able to get it, since I assume it will go significantly higher in price, but I'm going all in.

agentprovocateur

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2204 on: April 03, 2012, 01:07:19 PM »
Good luck enki... I think I'm in a similar boat.

The interesting thing this time is the Mrs is probably more up for getting it than me... there's a first!
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 01:08:11 PM by agentprovocateur »

Offline Zorba

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2205 on: April 03, 2012, 02:48:54 PM »
Good luck enki... I think I'm in a similar boat.

The interesting thing this time is the Mrs is probably more up for getting it than me... there's a first!

What are we all bidding on?  :P

Offline enki

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2206 on: April 03, 2012, 03:21:51 PM »
 gun1 gun2

Offline Zorba

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2207 on: April 03, 2012, 03:32:58 PM »

Offline Silhouette

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2208 on: April 03, 2012, 03:48:45 PM »
Perhaps this is more accurate...

David


Offline Harry Caul

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2209 on: April 03, 2012, 04:05:17 PM »
I've been on a Czech and Polish tear lately... watch out.  ;D

Offline Zorba

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2210 on: April 03, 2012, 04:07:16 PM »
I've been on a Czech and Polish tear lately... watch out.  ;D

Grrrrrrrrrrrrr
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 04:10:31 PM by Zorba »

Offline enki

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2211 on: April 03, 2012, 04:17:58 PM »

Offline Zorba

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2212 on: April 03, 2012, 04:19:29 PM »

agentprovocateur

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2213 on: April 03, 2012, 04:27:04 PM »

Charlie

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2214 on: April 03, 2012, 04:47:51 PM »
0

Offline Zorba

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2215 on: April 03, 2012, 04:51:01 PM »
0

I have made it a personal goal to see if I can go the entire month of April without buying a poster... (that I haven't already made arrangements for  )  This is linen backing start-up month... Wish me luck!

I thought that that was just an april fool thing? No?

Charlie

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2216 on: April 03, 2012, 05:12:39 PM »
I have made it a personal goal to see if I can go the entire month of April without buying a poster... (that I haven't already made arrangements for  )  This is linen backing start-up month... Wish me luck!

I thought that that was just an april fool thing? No?

Nope bought all the wood for the washing table and will be ordering the soap, CT, Duct, Mylars, etc. this week.  About ~$700 to start up so no posters for me...  When I start building the table I'll snap some pics and then when I start playing with the stuff I'll snap pics.  Maybe I should start a thread...

Offline Zorba

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2217 on: April 03, 2012, 05:15:11 PM »
Nope bought all the wood for the washing table and will be ordering the soap, CT, Duct, Mylars, etc. this week.  About ~$700 to start up so no posters for me...  When I start building the table I'll snap some pics and then when I start playing with the stuff I'll snap pics.  Maybe I should start a thread...

That is cool.

Yes it will need its own thread.

I wish you good luck!

Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2218 on: April 03, 2012, 08:26:02 PM »
Holiday.

posters are not exactly distributed directly by the studios (with small exception), but are generally distributed by third parties who warehouse and ship by contract to the companies doing distribution (Disney for instance has a subsidiary that does distribution, then they in turn contract a warehouse & shipper to do the heavy lifting). When these posters are given away by the distributors, the distributors & all upstream companies involved are essentially "abandoning" the individual posters, largely because it's too expensive to retrieve them.

Movieposterbid.com is the FIRST All-Movie Poster Auction Site. We're not #1, but we try harder
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Offline enki

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2219 on: April 03, 2012, 09:22:58 PM »
Good luck enki... I think I'm in a similar boat.

The interesting thing this time is the Mrs is probably more up for getting it than me... there's a first!

Woohoo!!!!!!

 woohoo

Offline Zorba

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2220 on: April 03, 2012, 09:45:16 PM »
Woohoo!!!!!!

 woohoo

I assume you got it? If so... which one was it?

Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2221 on: April 03, 2012, 09:57:29 PM »
I asked the mods to move all the "first sale" posts to a new thread.

Like I said a few days ago, the "downstream" collectors like us clearly "own" our posters.  I doubt there is a single case of a movie studio contesting ownership of a poster obtained by an individual collector from any source - dealer, other collector, theater employee, Ebay seller, etc.  You don't see Universal claiming to own that Dracula poster that Heritage sold, do you?
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 10:02:35 PM by Dread_Pirate_Mel »

Offline enki

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2222 on: April 03, 2012, 10:40:37 PM »
I assume you got it? If so... which one was it?



 8)

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Offline brude

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2224 on: April 04, 2012, 11:03:53 AM »