Author Topic: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....  (Read 2167601 times)

Offline enki

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2175 on: March 30, 2012, 02:33:23 PM »
Ah, I see.

I on the other hand, as a buyer, don't give positive feedback to a Seller until I receive it.

My rationalization for this is that, in an eBay transaction, there are two components:
The Buyer is responsible for paying for the item.
The Seller is responsible for shipping the item and ensuring that it is as described, arrives properly/safely, etc.

As a Buyer, my obligations are fully satisfied once I have made payment, assuming there are no additional requirements such as shipping something back or providing additional information. Since the Seller is obviously not going to fulfill their obligations until the Buyer has completed their's, in my opinion the Seller should provide appropriate feedback for the Buyer as soon as this step is completed, just as the Seller would expect that they are provided positive feedback from the Buyer once their part of the transaction has been completed satisfactorily.

On the rare occasions where I actually sell something on eBay, I follow this same logic in reverse. As soon as funds have been transferred, I leave positive feedback for the (hopefully) quick and complete payment of the item.

The Seller's obligations are not completed until well after this point. But nothing the seller does or doesn't do should affect or impact the fact that the Buyer has "held up their end of the bargain".

Since eBay sellers can't leave negative feedback on Buyers anymore, this is even more appropriate (IMHO), since they have made it clear that Buyer feedback is for confirming payment has been received. Assuming there was a problem later on in the transaction, that would have to be rectified through the appropriate eBay channels for transaction dispute anyway.

That's why I don't leave positive feedback until I receive it - because my obligations were satisfied first, and that respective feedback should be left first. I don't believe sellers should hold feedback "hostage" until they receive it - not to say that you do this actively, just pointing out that many do.

Again, my opinion.

I figured I would ask since I have purchased quite a few expensive items from you in the past, and wondered why I never got a +1  :'(.

Offline erik1925

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2176 on: March 30, 2012, 03:35:38 PM »
Ah, I see.

I on the other hand, as a buyer, don't give positive feedback to a Seller until I receive it.

My rationalization for this is that, in an eBay transaction, there are two components:
The Buyer is responsible for paying for the item.
The Seller is responsible for shipping the item and ensuring that it is as described, arrives properly/safely, etc.

As a Buyer, my obligations are fully satisfied once I have made payment, assuming there are no additional requirements such as shipping something back or providing additional information. Since the Seller is obviously not going to fulfill their obligations until the Buyer has completed theirs, in my opinion the Seller should provide appropriate feedback for the Buyer as soon as this step is completed, just as the Seller would expect that they are provided positive feedback from the Buyer once their part of the transaction has been completed satisfactorily.

On the rare occasions where I actually sell something on eBay, I follow this same logic in reverse. As soon as funds have been transferred, I leave positive feedback for the (hopefully) quick and complete payment of the item.

The Seller's obligations are not completed until well after this point. But nothing the seller does or doesn't do should affect or impact the fact that the Buyer has "held up their end of the bargain".

Since eBay sellers can't leave negative feedback on Buyers anymore, this is even more appropriate (IMHO), since they have made it clear that Buyer feedback is for confirming payment has been received. Assuming there was a problem later on in the transaction, that would have to be rectified through the appropriate eBay channels for transaction dispute anyway.

That's why I don't leave positive feedback until I receive it - because my obligations were satisfied first, and that respective feedback should be left first. I don't believe sellers should hold feedback "hostage" until they receive it - not to say that you do this actively, just pointing out that many do.

Again, my opinion.

I figured I would ask since I have purchased quite a few expensive items from you in the past, and wondered why I never got a +1  :'(.


+1.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on this points as both buyer and seller, enki. When I have won or bought an item on ebay, I have always paid within hours of winning or buying an item (let alone the 3 day window most buyers ask for). There have been times that I, too, have not received positive feedback, once I fulfilled my payment obligation (and a few times, none was received at all). This happened, too, to me with another poster seller, who also stated that no feedback would be given until I had posted positive feedback first to him (i had emailed and inquired, also).

I dont understand that logic; it is backwards IMO, especially when one is awaiting the arrival of their purchase. And then, of course, an item may not be as described, damaged due to poor packaging etc (and what if the the seller is of no help to rectify the situation? There is (was) the whole idea of retaliatory, unwarranted, negative feedback).

The same goes with me, when I have sold occasional items. Once the funds have been received, that buyer receives positive feedback from me.

Again, I know some people dont ever deal with leaving feedback. And I am not suggesting that a seller needs to leave feedback within minutes of receiving payment, especially those that have a a great number of items listed. I'm talking about the idea that some sellers specifically choose to not leave feedback until they have received it first, even when payment to him/her has been received.









-Jeff

Offline enki

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2177 on: March 30, 2012, 03:43:41 PM »
And when I do sell something on eBay, I always make it a point to send a personalized email to the buyer - thanking them for their purchase and prompt payment, letting them know I had already left them positive feedback, and asking them to do the same once they received the item and were happy with it. I've only had one buyer that never left anything (meh, what are you gonna do).

The only time I've ever broken my "seller leaves it first" rule is when I bought a gift for someone. It was a cheap little antique. But the seller went above and beyond. They actually refunded me some of the shipping costs out of nowhere because it was less than she anticipated. She also put an extra item in the package, and a very nice personalized note. I felt she was such an outstanding seller that she deserved the +1 even if she never left me anything.

Offline erik1925

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2178 on: March 30, 2012, 03:54:47 PM »
Ditto on the email communications, as well. Its Very important, and puts both seller and buyer at ease, during the transaction. Or to answer questions, get details etc.


-Jeff

Offline enki

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2179 on: March 30, 2012, 05:00:40 PM »
Exactly. When dealing with people on eBay, it's nice to keep it somewhat personal. Let them know when it should be shipping out, and you'll give them the tracking number when you have it, etc. It keeps things less Big Business like, and makes the buyer happy. It also stops them from thinking "omg, I just gave this person $X and haven't heard from them in ten seconds, I think they're trying to scam me, I'm going to email them right now demanding to know why my package wasn't shipped same-day-express-delivery", etc.

Offline Silhouette

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2180 on: April 02, 2012, 06:29:15 PM »
Mid auction analysis goes here? Only hours before it's all over..and forum members are bidding wildly

OMG  :D

http://bit.ly/Hcs1Yy
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Offline Louie D.

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2181 on: April 02, 2012, 08:49:16 PM »
Mid auction analysis goes here? Only hours before it's all over..and forum members are bidding wildly

OMG  :D

http://bit.ly/Hcs1Yy


THEY'RE FUCKING DAYBILLS!  puke2
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 08:50:11 PM by Louie D. »

Offline Silhouette

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2182 on: April 02, 2012, 09:16:34 PM »
THEY'RE FUCKING DAYBILLS!  puke2

OMG You're right! How did I not see that? hitself

Oh well may as well slash my wrists now...

 :)
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 09:29:53 PM by Silhouette »
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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2183 on: April 02, 2012, 09:51:42 PM »
OMG You're right! How did I not see that? hitself

Oh well may as well slash my wrists now...

 :)

Too bad I am not buying anything this month...  Oh wait they are daybills...  ;)

Offline Ari

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2184 on: April 02, 2012, 09:54:46 PM »
I predict whoever is winning RIGHT NOW, is very sexy and smart.
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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2185 on: April 02, 2012, 11:04:44 PM »
I predict whoever is winning RIGHT NOW, is very sexy and smart.

I predict whoever is bidding thought these were dvd's

 


Offline CSM

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2186 on: April 02, 2012, 11:29:25 PM »
I predict whoever is bidding thought these were dvd's

 



Region 4's?
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Offline Ari

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2187 on: April 02, 2012, 11:33:56 PM »
Gosh and to think when I started selling on ebay I had to write THIS IS NOT A VIDEO (rather than dvd).
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Der Januskopf

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2188 on: April 02, 2012, 11:44:56 PM »
THEY'RE FUCKING DAYBILLS!  puke2

Over 3/4 of these are from the 1990s.
 
How was the price/value of "over 500.00" for this group of modern daybills calculated?  :o

Someone will get a lot of newer paper for 10-15.00 USD, if the bids dont go up.


Offline Ari

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2189 on: April 02, 2012, 11:46:27 PM »
Some sexy, smart (well hung) DVD collector. COOL!
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Offline CSM

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2190 on: April 02, 2012, 11:52:39 PM »
Some sexy, smart (well hung) DVD collector. COOL!

 :o
Chris

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2191 on: April 03, 2012, 12:04:51 AM »
Some sexy, smart (well hung) DVD collector. COOL!

I think Ari has his ass back now and is full of confidence  thumbup
Wait, well hung... we talking about an ass?  ;)


How was the price/value of "over 500.00" for this group of modern daybills calculated?  :o

It's easy, all prices are listed as SRP (Suggested Retail Price)
Suggested Retail Price is:
"the price which the manufacturer recommends that the retailer sell the product"
So there,... huh...
Remember, if you don't like the goods, No Refunds Accepted, so for you who are just starting out in the hobby make sure you know what condition VG is, apologies Ari, ahemm,... Virtual Garbage

Offline Silhouette

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2192 on: April 03, 2012, 12:51:53 AM »
How was the price/value of "over 500.00" for this group of modern daybills calculated?  :o

Well what I did is check to see what everyone else was selling them for or what they had sold for on auction sites. I used a pen to write down those numbers, I then used a calculator to add the numbers up, taking a rough average and erring on the low side if that was possible..I then listed every poster and posted the prices I researched against each title as a guide for everyone in case they wanted to check - go ahead check. Are you suggesting I am lying or trying to pull a fast one? I can't be more transparent with this advert....besides since when is being a 90s poster a pre-curser for being cheap?

... Virtual Garbage

That comment was a bit tough
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 01:37:43 AM by Silhouette »
David


Offline holiday

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2193 on: April 03, 2012, 01:04:26 AM »
Dale because you a dealer your legal concerns are different from those of a downstream collector who is several times removed from the original transfer of the posters. Clearly collectors can sue a dealer who knowingly misrepresents a poster as an original when that dealer knows it is a reprint or bootleg.

Sorry, but I don't think you're right Mel.  First sale doctrine applies to something that is put into commerce by a seller.  So, if the record company sells a CD, the first sale doctrine permits that buyer to resell the CD.

It does not apply to something that was not intended to be put into commerce.  So, if a distributor gives the posters away to a theater, then there's an argument that the first sale doctrine permits subsequent resale. However, if the posters are consigned, or are otherwise lent to the theater on a temporary basis, to be returned or destroyed when done, the first sale doctrine does not apply.

That's why, for the most part, every poster everyone here owns is, um, in violation of copyright and/or trademark laws.
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Offline 110x75

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2194 on: April 03, 2012, 01:16:16 AM »
That's why, for the most part, every poster everyone here owns is, um, in violation of copyright and/or trademark laws.

Us paper collectors love living dangerously!  ;)
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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2195 on: April 03, 2012, 01:18:46 AM »
I thought most US movie posters in our hot little hands come originally from NSS who either sold their posters to the public or sold off the warehouses of posters to the public? Not sure about other countries. Interested to know more about French, Italian and Mexican posters how we gotta hold on them.


Offline Ari

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2196 on: April 03, 2012, 01:52:46 AM »
Well what I did is check to see what everyone else was selling them for or what they had sold for on auction sites. I used a pen to write down those numbers, I then used a calculator to add the numbers up, taking a rough average and erring on the low side if that was possible..I then listed every poster and posted the prices I researched against each title as a guide for everyone in case they wanted to check - go ahead check. Are you suggesting I am lying or trying to pull a fast one? I can't be more transparent with this advert....besides since when is being a 90s poster a pre-curser for being cheap?

That comment was a bit tough

I see nothing wrong with the listing, anyone can do their own research and agree or not with the value described.
Personally I think they would average $10 each retail - with many sitting around not selling for a long time. But thats OK.

Someone could buy them and have their next Xmas presents sorted for the family and friends. ;)
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Der Januskopf

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2197 on: April 03, 2012, 02:50:36 AM »
Well what I did is check to see what everyone else was selling them for or what they had sold for on auction sites. I used a pen to write down those numbers, I then used a calculator to add the numbers up, taking a rough average and erring on the low side if that was possible..I then listed every poster and posted the prices I researched against each title as a guide for everyone in case they wanted to check - go ahead check. Are you suggesting I am lying or trying to pull a fast one? I can't be more transparent with this advert....besides since when is being a 90s poster a pre-curser for being cheap?



Not at all. Just asking. No one suggested anything otherwise. And 90s and more current material does go for less, in many cases, than items that are older. Scarcity etc can come in to play. Paper from the 90s to now can be more prolific and plentiful.



Offline Ari

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2198 on: April 03, 2012, 07:07:31 AM »
the high bidder now has a small dick, many mistake it for a peanut.
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Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #2199 on: April 03, 2012, 08:38:20 AM »
Sorry, but I don't think you're right Mel.  First sale doctrine applies to something that is put into commerce by a seller.  So, if the record company sells a CD, the first sale doctrine permits that buyer to resell the CD.

It does not apply to something that was not intended to be put into commerce.  So, if a distributor gives the posters away to a theater, then there's an argument that the first sale doctrine permits subsequent resale. However, if the posters are consigned, or are otherwise lent to the theater on a temporary basis, to be returned or destroyed when done, the first sale doctrine does not apply.

That's why, for the most part, every poster everyone here owns is, um, in violation of copyright and/or trademark laws.

I think I've got the better of the argument here, Mr. Lawyer.  All these arguments were hashed out in the Disney/20th Century Fox v. MovieGoods lawsuit.  MovieGoods argued extensively that the "first sale" doctrine only requires a "transfer" (not sale) into commerce and that Disney/20th Century Fox "transferred" its posters to movie theaters and poster distributors for the promotion of its movies.  

I've included the essential pleadings here:

http://www.posternirvana.com/0DNE/MovieGoods/

Most of the litigation concerned 11x17 flyers, for which there is a stronger "first sale" argument that Disney intended such posters to be distributed to the public.

The parties settled before the issue was decided.  At the end of the day, both Disney and 20th Century Fox signed a consent decree expressly allowing MovieGoods to continue to sell original posters per the "First Sale" doctrine, effectively agreeing with MovieGoods' arguments.  



The settlement itself was very broad and went beyond 11x17 flyers.  It expressly banned the reproduction of Disney's intellectual properties, including the Aladdin one sheets:



And MovieGoods continues to sell original Disney movie posters, including Aladdin, almost certainly through the "First Sale" exception specified in the consent order.  Notably, MovieGoods does NOT sell repros of these posters.





« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 08:56:06 AM by Dread_Pirate_Mel »