Author Topic: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....  (Read 2165331 times)

Offline paul waines

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #8575 on: July 11, 2020, 11:30:34 AM »
Just seen this, quite amusing..

I've always had this Quad down as late 40's, but no way is this a first release Quad. To start off theres too many about for a war years poster,  and in relatively good nick too. I've seen at least 5 or more..

The first release would most definitely have had RKO as Distributor. These two, or even 3 if you count the link Sean posted to Steves site, are all the same release, and yes the one Bruce is selling has had a cut and paste job to make the double bill, but it's the same poster as the others.

The coin Cert was slowly phased out from around 1950 to coincide with the 1951 change in the UK certification, but theres still examples going to up to 1958, so not to good a guide.
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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #8576 on: July 11, 2020, 01:51:53 PM »
but no way is this a first release Quad. To start off theres too many about for a war years poster,  and in relatively good nick too. I've seen at least 5 or more..

The first release would most definitely have had RKO as Distributor. These two, or even 3 if you count the link Sean posted to Steves site, are all the same release, and yes the one Bruce is selling has had a cut and paste job to make the double bill, but it's the same poster as the others.

I stopped using the "how many are known to exist" metric for deciding if something is original or not a long time ago.  If I still used it, I would assume Peeping Tom quads were all printed last week.

And yes, it seems like RKO should be listed as the distributor - unless the printer was lazy of course. Then all bets are off.
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Offline paul waines

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #8577 on: July 11, 2020, 02:03:00 PM »
No, but on British stuff from that time, it helps, but is by no means a given.

The printers won't have been lazy, as they removed the RKO logo, and put Disney onto it. 6000 + numbers on Staffords were very late 40's, they changed in 1950, and started again, I have an On the Town, released in 1950 with a number 17 on it.  Staffords had several letters on their numbers, C for Columbia, BL for British Lion, not sure what the A was for.. and these again had different numbers.

Anyway, from what I know, it's a late 40's rerelease, but what do I know, I haven't wrote a book, just some graffiti on the toilet wall... ;-)
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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #8578 on: July 11, 2020, 02:29:31 PM »
but what do I know, I haven't wrote a book, just some graffiti on the toilet wall... ;-)

You have a toilet wall?
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Offline paul waines

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #8579 on: July 11, 2020, 06:00:04 PM »
 laugh1
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Offline redman

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #8580 on: July 13, 2020, 07:48:59 AM »
my question re Bambi quad is if that one is a first release then where are the quads for 1948 and 1957 rereleases?

found another first release trade ad - this one doesn't use 'multiplane'


this trade ad for 1948 rerelease still correctly credits RKO


usa pressbook


so it looks like first release uk quad is lost/unseen, they used art from usa pressbook for 1948 and updated that for 1957 which is what EMP is saying


Offline paul waines

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #8581 on: July 13, 2020, 12:44:28 PM »
Did you not read my reply, none of them is first release.
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Offline redman

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #8582 on: July 13, 2020, 01:05:11 PM »
HA disagrees with you thumbup you also said they were all from 1948 which i wouldn't bet on

Offline paul waines

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #8583 on: July 13, 2020, 01:24:23 PM »
They are Yanks, what do you expect...  ;)

Late 40's I said, and none of those 3 are first release.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 01:26:17 PM by paul waines »
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Offline descposter

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #8584 on: July 16, 2020, 07:16:27 AM »
usa pressbook


so it looks like first release uk quad is lost/unseen, they used art from usa pressbook for 1948 and updated that for 1957 which is what EMP is saying

Heritage still is listing their re-release as original

https://movieposters.ha.com/itm/animation/bambi-walt-disney-productions-1942-folded-fine-very-fine-british-quad-30-x-40-/a/7223-86048.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Sim and Paul (the two best experts we know) are both certain it is a re-release.
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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #8585 on: July 16, 2020, 09:50:55 AM »
Heritage still is listing their re-release as original
Sim and Paul (the two best experts we know) are both certain it is a re-release.

I guess they believe Greg Edwards, who is also one of the best experts we know, that it is an original.

Are there any other examples of "lazy" Stafford printings from the 50s where they use 1940s print numbers and the "A" code which is unseen post-1950?
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Offline paul waines

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #8586 on: July 16, 2020, 02:15:33 PM »
Just checking into this some more, my main chew has been finding out what the A means. the number with the A does seem like a 1942 number code, but the fact the RKO Distribution is missing, means it's not from 42.

At this moment I'm inclined to go with Sim, on a late 50's RR, and the Lazy printer.  No I haven't come across any others this has happened too, but I'm still looking into it..

Greg is a master with the numbers, but I think he's been put off with this "lazy printer" thing..
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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #8587 on: July 16, 2020, 03:22:34 PM »
Just checking into this some more, my main chew has been finding out what the A means. the number with the A does seem like a 1942 number code, but the fact the RKO Distribution is missing, means it's not from 42.

What if the printer was also lazy in 42? Or was laziness not a thing until the 50s?

I don't have a dog in the fight, but it's fun to see when two respected experts disagree.
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Offline Tang Lung in Rome

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #8588 on: July 16, 2020, 04:05:42 PM »
They are Yanks, what do you expect...  ;)

Late 40's I said, and none of those 3 are first release.

Wed all be speaking german in Europe now if not for US in ww2

Offline paul waines

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #8589 on: July 16, 2020, 05:11:00 PM »
What if the printer was also lazy in 42? Or was laziness not a thing until the 50s?

I don't have a dog in the fight, but it's fun to see when two respected experts disagree.

Me neither. I just love to get to the bottom of these kind of things. Thought I had a handle on these numbers, but that A certainly has proved tricky.

Would love to see the kind of paper they are on, the one Steve is selling I missed bidding on, totally forgot the auction, and it only went for £48...  And everyone says there's no bargains on Ebay anymore.
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Offline redman

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #8590 on: July 16, 2020, 06:41:29 PM »
can't the numbers not being right be explained by human error/an apprentice/on the ale at dinnertime etc whilst the rko/disney distribution 'error' means only one thing - the printer would have had to be a time-traveller to do that in 1942 ???
god knows why HA haven't pulled it

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #8591 on: July 16, 2020, 10:15:35 PM »
can't the numbers not being right be explained by human error/an apprentice/on the ale at dinnertime etc whilst the rko/disney distribution 'error' means only one thing - the printer would have had to be a time-traveller to do that in 1942 ???

Couldn't it also mean a human error in 1942?
"Hey Nigel, whose movie is this?"
"Walt Disney"
"Right, well then we need to...bloody hell do you hear those air sirens? Just start the printer and let's get out of here-"

You guys must really really laugh at that poor crook dealer Steve. I mean, we're yanks what do we know?
But an actual UK dealer calling it first issue and misleading customers? And with a detailed explanation to really treat his customers like chumps selling them a solid gold watch for a dollar. For shame.

And shame on Sim for identifying every other re-release in his book but this one (if it actually is one)
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Offline redman

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #8592 on: July 17, 2020, 11:35:43 AM »
^ thats a pretty petulant post from somebody who says -
I don't have a dog in the fight

steve is from the link you previously posted?
i can't see anybody laughing at him. it's obvious from his description that he is guessing because he is unaware the film was rereleased in 1948
what is HA's excuse? show us the 1948 and 1957 quads and then you can say they have got a 1942 poster

Offline paul waines

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #8593 on: July 17, 2020, 11:49:07 AM »
Sean, the numbers work out correct for 1942, so can't have been that guy's war time apprentice. As I said the A makes it a correct date code for 1942.  I have one with the number 8888A  and it's from 1948. so matches perfectly.

What makes it not from 42 is the distributor, which should be RKO.

At the moment I have to go with Sims answer lazy printer in 57. Not typical, but does explain it...

Steve is a nice fellow, but relatively new to the game, been at it since maybe 2000, so can be forgiven for just copying whats wrote on HA or elsewhere on the web.

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #8594 on: July 17, 2020, 02:13:54 PM »
show us the 1948 and 1957 quads and then you can say they have got a 1942 poster

I can play this circular game, show me the 42 and 48 Quads and then you can say it's 57.

Ok, Steve is new. What is Douglas' excuse for calling it original?

And Paul, I think you missed my point, it was the wartime apprentice who set the type for WDP, and was about to be corrected to RKO when the air raid sirens began.
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Offline redman

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #8595 on: July 17, 2020, 03:09:39 PM »
I can play this circular game, show me the 42 and 48 Quads and then you can say it's 57.

i can only show a 1957 quad so i can't play your game
i think you can only show a 1942? lots of 1942s and nothing else? not even 1957? makes total sense!

What is Douglas' excuse for calling it original?

feck knows. consignor?

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #8596 on: July 17, 2020, 03:27:55 PM »
i can only show a 1957 quad so i can't play your game
i think you can only show a 1942? lots of 1942s and nothing else? not even 1957? makes total sense!

feck knows. consignor?

Show me an R38 Frankenstein 1-sheet. Why are there so many 1931s around and no 38s?
How come I don't know what a re-release Jekyll & Hyde one-sheet looks like, but there are a few "original" release ones?
Why are there more Peeping Tom quads than seemingly there are all other 1960 quads combined?
Who knows the reason some things get put aside and some don't.

I've had lots of original release Rodan quads over the years, but I'm still looking for a copy of the re-release one.
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Offline paul waines

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #8597 on: July 17, 2020, 05:25:55 PM »
Theres quite a lot of Peeping Tom Quads in good condition as at the time a lot of local authorities banned the film, so lots of the posters were never used.

Re-releases were often only shown on Indie circuits, and never had the release of the initial run, so not as many posters needed, or printed.
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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #8598 on: July 17, 2020, 11:41:50 PM »
Re-releases were often only shown on Indie circuits, and never had the release of the initial run, so not as many posters needed, or printed.

So what I'm hearing is that re-releases are much rarer than first issue ones, which would explain why we've never seen 48 and 57 Bambi quads...
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Offline paul waines

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Re: Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #8599 on: July 18, 2020, 03:14:47 AM »
Nothing is ever set in stone, but on the whole yes, but factor in the war years here. Very little UK paper has survived pre-1950..
« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 03:18:10 AM by paul waines »
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