Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....

[Simes]

No fair trying to be logical

Quite.

Perhaps also we can compare a Dr No UK Quad sold on Heritage and a Thai video poster of Moonraker sold on eBay.  Again, Heritage is just cleaning up all over the estate...!

[BruceH]

Psycho doesn't seem crazy to me.  Great title, awesome poster.  And not far from what it sells for usually.

T

Interesting. The last time it sold at Heritage, three weeks ago, it "sold" for $1,434. So you see $2,100 as "not far from what it sells for usually"? Anyone else agree?

In discussions of posters, whether it is a Psycho one-sheet or a Casablanca one-sheet, it is important to compare "apples to apples and oranges to oranges".

[BruceH]

Quite.

Perhaps also we can compare a Dr No UK Quad sold on Heritage and a Thai video poster of Moonraker sold on eBay.  Again, Heritage is just cleaning all over the estate...!

Exactly. There are none so deaf as those who will not hear.

[timelessmoviemagic]

Actually, I was looking at Bruce's entire auction and a lot of titles sold for less than I thought they would.  Great opportunities for members of this forum, I hope...  Barbarella B, Good Bad and Ugly, Revenge of the Jedi, You Only Live Twice, the list goes on and on.  The big ones always sell for a lot, but the middle of the road posters get buried because there is just so much money people can spend in a single auction.  For instance, I won 4 posters, there were more that I wanted, some that sold for very little, but I passed on them because I put a cap of my spending.  I think it's a problem when you pack too many great titles at one time.  They should be more spread out to give buyers a chance to breathe and refuel.

T

I agree with T on this.  For example I haven't got endless pockets of cash and there were five posters I REALLY wanted in this auction. However, there's no chance I could bid $3000 on all five in the hope I got one just in case I won all five! So I had to basically choose the poster I desired the most out of those 5 and go for that.

So by having many titles that I wanted in one auction didn't really work for me.

I'm not complaining though Bruce as it was a fabulous auction to be involved in


Congrats on the Laura T. I had a bite at this as well. I'll just have to wait until the next comes along.

[BruceH]

I agree with T on this.  For example I haven't got endless pockets of cash and there were five posters I REALLY wanted in this auction. However, there's no chance I could bid $3000 on all five in the hope I got one just in case I won all five! So I had to basically choose the poster I desired the most out of those 5 and go for that.

So by having many titles that I wanted in one auction didn't really work for me.

I'm not complaining though Bruce as it was a fabulous auction to be involved in


Congrats on the Laura T. I had a bite at this as well. I'll just have to wait until the next comes along.

I see your point. What were the four posters you did not get? I want to see how their prices were lower because you could not bid on them.

[Simes]

I guess that is the conflict on all Signature type auctions.

There is a great deal of fanfare and interest; people flock from all over and wake up from their slumber for these few events a year.

But at the same time it does rather necessitate people having the deepest of pockets in one specific month if interests extend far and wide. 

[brude]

Perhaps I am missing something but I was comparing like-for-like poster results.  Not everything else.  The poster we're discussing is just the Casa US 1 sheet, I thought....?

You thought correctly -- and beat me to the punch with your response.
 

[CineMasterpieces]

Yes, we won the Casablanca one sheet. And quite a few others as well. I'm sure it will take awhile to sell it but we are in no rush. The one sheet may not be the most appealing poster for this title, but it is an extremely important poster and a must have for serious deep pocketed collectors. And most of them prefer the size of a one sheet over an insert or half sheet if they are displaying it in their castle.

Excellent auction Bruce.

Just like in almost every modern day movie poster auction....there were several steals, several that set a record high, and several that sold for what they usually do.

[eatbrie]

Congrats on the Laura T. I had a bite at this as well. I'll just have to wait until the next comes along.

Thanks.  My favorite movie of all time.  I had been looking for a folded version for ever.  HA sold one, 6 months ago, for $12k.  I actually bid on it.  The only folded one they have ever sold, and I think it was Bruce's first.  So I feel mine is a bargain.  Condition is key, but this one is not too bad, considering it's age.  I'll put it at the bottom of a drawer and it will flatten over time.  So I now own the 1/2 sheet, the LC set, the 1 sht and the ultra rare French.  I need the 6sht next.  The hunt continues 

T

[timelessmoviemagic]

Thanks.  My favorite movie of all time.  I had been looking for a folded version for ever.  HA sold one, 6 months ago, for $12k.  I actually bid on it.  The only folded one they have ever sold, and I think it was Bruce's first.  So I feel mine is a bargain.  Condition is key, but this one is not too bad, considering it's age.  I'll put it at the bottom of a drawer and it will flatten over time.  So I now own the 1/2 sheet, the LC set, the 1 sht and the ultra rare French.  I need the 6sht next.  The hunt continues 

T

Yes it's mine as well. I'm a little way behind you on the Laura stakes. I own the LC set, 1/2 sheet and the Finnish one I mentioned in the 'only ever seen one thread' I very much doubt I'll ever own the French but I'll try and get the 1sheet.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there only one known 6sheet?

Marc

[timelessmoviemagic]

I see your point. What were the four posters you did not get? I want to see how their prices were lower because you could not bid on them.

Bruce, they were Laura, Psycho, Rebecca and Big Sleep. The other one is still going.

The $3000 bids were just an example so you understand the plight of a poor fellow like me 

I maybe could have got the Big Sleep if I really went for it (depending on how much the other guy really wanted it) but bidding over my budget isn't good for my health (the GF would kill me  )

Once again congrats on the auction

[eatbrie]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there only one known 6sheet?

A friend of mine owns one and I will eventually get it from him.  Patience is key.

T

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Hi,

Perhaps I am missing something but I was comparing like-for-like poster results.  Not everything else.  The poster we're discussing is just the Casa US 1 sheet, I thought....?

well if that's the case, that we only discuss a very specific size, then HA got $77k for the poster last time they sold it.  Period. That's the price that stands.

Otherwise you may as well go all the way back to 1994 where Bruce sold one for $3910 and 1991 when he got $5720.

But seeing as measuring those sales is ridiculous in the modern age, you take ALL the pertinent data, which is that Heritage has been killing it with that title

there is no way for you to massage the data that HA is not the absolute winner on this title, presuming you want to hear.....

[crowzilla]

Aside from the one anomaly, Heritage's track record has been;

29k, 18, 12k, 21k, 20k 15k

By and large, Bruce has done better with this one.

Actually, I think the only track record to compare to might be the $77K sale since I don't think HA has sold another unbacked copy.
There was a lot of pent-up demand for an unrestored copy of this poster, but I agree that on Casablanca in general if I had one to sell it would go to Heritage. Especially if I was hoping to hit the lottery and get a six-figure sale.
I'm sure Bruce will correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe he has EVER had a six-figure sale, while HA has notched up a couple dozen of them at least.

[crowzilla]

Please post a list of what exactly were the "lot of titles sold for less than I thought they would". I am really curious to see what they are.

And out of curiosity, were there ANY posters that sold for MORE than you thought they would? If there were, how about a list of those as well?

Thanks!

Didn't he give you a list (or at least part of one) in the original post? I know he mentioned the Barbarella B-style, which looking at I see only went for $580. I think that might be a record low for you at auction?
(especially considering it was unbacked, if I am wrong and you have sold one for less please let me know).

Looking at the list from Thursday sorted highest to lowest, it would seem the top 4 posters might have sold at a discount to what other auction houses might have gotten for similar-condition unrestored copies.
(Casablanca already well discussed, Maltese Falcon recently sold for 2x what this copy sold for, Mark of Zorro is a title that almost never surfaces unrestored and I would expect it to go higher, while it's rare for an unrestored Creature poster to NOT crack $10K).

But looking at the next four posters, they all seem to have done well, a very strong price for a 2001 Style C, a possible record high price for the Outlaw poster, and two solid results for Hitchcock pieces.
Continue to the next couple of rows and it's mixed, Thierry already told us about the incredible bargain he got on the Laura one-sheet (almost 1/4 what the last unrestored copy sold for at auction), and things like The Misfits and Get Carter seem like strong results.
But all of these should have been strong results, it is very rare for most of these pieces to turn up in unrestored condition like this. Definitely a great opportunity for dealers this past week (seeing the names on many of the results) and hopefully some collectors picked up a few as well.

 

[Simes]

well if that's the case, that we only discuss a very specific size, then HA got $77k for the poster last time they sold it.  Period. That's the price that stands.

Hi.  I don't want to be difficult, and surely I am enjoying discussing the abstract points and merits of competing auction houses...

But I do think there has been enough documentation on these boards to suggest that, two people duking it out for a poster with limitless funds in their pockets, once, does not denote the new standard.

There have been cases everywhere where this happens, so I personally, and humbly, would opt for the recent and modal average, rather than a one-off.

For example, the top left corner example in this link I doubt has been repeated.  And I suspect is as a result of the above scenario.

http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/film_title/GOLDFINGER%255C%252FDR.%2520NO/tag/xtype%253Alobby%2520card/archive.html

All the best.

[CineMasterpieces]

I'll add some fuel to the fire....for no other reason than I don't want to get out of bed yet. 

Why not add DEALER sold prices to the mix?

We sold a linen backed c7-c8 Casablanca one sheet for $64,000 several months before Heritage sold theirs for almost $80,000.

We have a different one listed on our site now for over 100k. It may never sell at that price.....but then again it might. If it does, then what will everyone here say? That it doesn't count because it wasn't sold at auction?

And what about the other posters we have sold for record high prices? Is that data worthless? I don't want to list them here (like I did many years ago) because some will think I'm either bragging, advertising, or lying. And then we get nasty anonymous emails from the "haters".

[brude]

I'll add some fuel to the fire....for no other reason than I don't want to get out of bed yet. 

Why not add DEALER sold prices to the mix?

We sold a linen backed c7-c8 Casablanca one sheet for $64,000 several months before Heritage sold theirs for almost $80,000.

We have a different one listed on our site now for over 100k. It may never sell at that price.....but then again it might. If it does, then what will everyone here say? That it doesn't count because it wasn't sold at auction?

And what about the other posters we have sold for record high prices? Is that data worthless? I don't want to list them here (like I did many years ago) because some will think I'm either bragging, advertising, or lying. And then we get nasty anonymous emails from the "haters".

I, for one, think dealer sold prices are extremely relevant to this discussion.
You get any hate mail, Dave....  I'll authorize drone strikes.

[MoviePosterBid.com]

But I do think there has been enough documentation on these boards to suggest that, two people duking it out for a poster with limitless funds in their pockets, once, does not denote the new standard.

that wouldn't be the case for a Back to the Future one sheet, which is as common as chicken feathers, but when you are talking about one of the top, historic titles of all time. A hero of a film that has withstood 70+ years of unbelievable fame and a poster that is far from common.. you have an entirely different situation.

plus you have HA's past 2 1/2 years of knocking it out of the park on this title. To be sure, you also have no idea if it was only 2 bidders, or 3 or 4, unless Grey were to say so. It could be there were a dozen bidders up to 25k, tapering off until 2 fought over the last few bids over 60k

But what do have a factual result - HA has indeed sold  Casablanca 1sh for $77k.

For example, the top left corner example in this link I doubt has been repeated.  And I suspect is as a result of the above scenario.

http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/film_title/GOLDFINGER%255C%252FDR.%2520NO/tag/xtype%253Alobby%2520card/archive.html

all I see is a re-issue Goldfinger card for $38 at top left

[Neo]

I applaud all reputable sellers for their work.  Selling stuff is definitely not as easy as it looks, in many respects, and it's always interesting to see how the different business models work.  Of course, the few amazing, "big ticket" items add a lot of fuel to the industry, and they make it all a little more fun.


Speaking of amazing stuff, at eMoviePoster, there happens to be a very nice Close Encounters of the Third Kind Hungarian A2 aka 1/2 Sheet (59 x 42 cm or 23.2" x 16.5").

http://auctions.emovieposter.com/Bidding.taf?_function=detail&Auction_uid1=4467835

It's from the artist Tibor Helenyi's personal collection, with a COA from a well known dealer in Hungary.  It is surely one of the best, if not the best example floating around.

[Simes]

all I see is a re-issue Goldfinger card for $38 at top left

Oops.  Clearly my link didn't work for the general populace.

Apologies for the winding road, but I was trying to demonstrate a Dr No / Goldfinger reissue double feature lobby set that went for nearly $1k, once.  A price that is normally attributed to a first release Dr No lobby card set in good condition.  That it happens once in no ways sets the standard against which all other auctions have to meet. 

The more normal price for this set would be around the $300 mark, as the modal average would suggest.

[Simes]

To be sure, you also have no idea if it was only 2 bidders, or 3 or 4, unless Grey were to say so. It could be there were a dozen bidders up to 25k, tapering off until 2 fought over the last few bids over 60k

Yes, I completely concede this point.

But, the history would seem to suggest that at this specific point in time, there were two worthy bidders having a pop at each other.

At the end of the day, $77k happened once, ever.  And ~$20+k happens all the time...at Heritage.  So what else is there to say?

[Simes]

I'll add some fuel to the fire....for no other reason than I don't want to get out of bed yet. 
Why not add DEALER sold prices to the mix?
We sold a linen backed c7-c8 Casablanca one sheet for $64,000 several months before Heritage sold theirs for almost $80,000.

Because if for no other reason than yours is a different selling business model to that of Bruce.

Bruce sells everything that week, no matter.

You sell yours whenever (if ever) someone has the chops to pony up for a good poster and service.

Ultimately, one might say, all this is dictated by the (in this case, no doubt) informed intentions of the end client.  In this case again, Besson.  He wanted to get rid in one fell swoop, and this was the vehicle that best served his purpose.

If Besson had wanted to sell over the course of five years, I daresay, other funds could have been realised.  But he didn't.

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Ultimately, one might say, all this is dictated by the (in this case, no doubt) informed intentions of the end client.  In this case again, Besson.  He wanted to get rid in one fell swoop, and this was the vehicle that best served his purpose.

If Besson had wanted to sell over the course of five years, I daresay, other funds could have been realised.  But he didn't.

I don't know why you think if Dominique said to Grey "can you list all of this in one Signature auction and the lesser stuff within 30 days?" Grey wouldn't say "Sure. We can do that!"

[AdamCarterJones]

Auction prices are one thing.
Dealer prices are another thing.
Private sales are another thing.

You can mix the prices together, but you cannot mix the processes involved. This is where people in my opinion must be careful when pricing items.

It takes just one person to buy a poster listed at say £10k on a dealer's site, but it takes two at auction to get it to that point and/or beyond often with BPs to add. Then you have the added complication with dealer and private sales of trade plus cash deals. In my experience, unless you are either party to the information or involved in the transaction, dealers never tell you when they complete such a deal. They just tell you the item sold for £10k, which can be misleading and is certainly unclear because they could have took £7k cash along with a poster they could sell for £3k. This doesn't mean the poster sold for £10k because they could have actually paid £1k for the trade-in poster with a view to sell it for £3k to make up the original £10k.

Forgetting eBay (which is a bit of an enigma at times with every item going), I think Rich's site, Bruce's site, Heritage and other auction houses who often sell posters are the best to gauge prices for the most up to date, and dare I say, reliable values. Dealer sites then come next as this gives you an average, current retail value. But then you sometimes find the auction houses sell the posters for MORE than the retail setups which just messes everything up lol!