Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....

[crowzilla]

Once you get past Jaws, are prices really insane or is it a few high prices, a few regular prices, and a few low prices?

A few years ago that A&C Meet Frank insert would have been the high price leader for the night, as it is it sold for the lowest price I've ever seen at auction.
Kong result seemed low, as you don't see Star Wars half and 1st print one-sheets for under a grand much anymore, but Dr No insert seemed ok as well as Halloween and some of the newer items.
Last few pages were all under $50 each so have to think there were a few bargains there

[Simes]

Maybe Chop Top bit the mega bullet and went for it!   

I went in this thread, looking for Jaws references, and a Chop comment thereafter.

Glad to see I was not disappointed.

[cabmangray]

I just checked EMP's Tuesday auction results. The MONSTER OF PIEDRAS BLANCAS insert sold for almost double the MUMMY'S CURSE R-51 insert? Is the PIEDRAS BLANCAS insert that rare? I know it's the best poster for this title, but sheesh!

[eric160634]

I'm glad I found my Indian Jaws 3 sheet on eBay a few months ago. I paid less than 1/3 of what Bruce got for one on Sunday.

[Filmlobbycards]

Once you get past Jaws, are prices really insane or is it a few high prices, a few regular prices, and a few low prices?

A few years ago that A&C Meet Frank insert would have been the high price leader for the night, as it is it sold for the lowest price I've ever seen at auction.
Kong result seemed low, as you don't see Star Wars half and 1st print one-sheets for under a grand much anymore, but Dr No insert seemed ok as well as Halloween and some of the newer items.
Last few pages were all under $50 each so have to think there were a few bargains there

I think its reasonably safe to say that rarity really is a driving force for excellent results..Much has been said about the overall flood of posters being sold in these weekly auctions and the overexposure of certain titles ....there are highs and lows with these results...but for truly great results the posters need to be outliers with a mix of obscurity and desirability being the propulsive factors...the driving force is rarity....RARITY!!

I can give a few examples to my point:

The 1931 Maltese Falcon lobby cards Heritage sold....the title card sold for over $10,000 and best scene for about $9,000....very few lobby cards...even universal horror rarities, will ever reach those prices....and that movie is an absolute mediocre film...hardly anyone has ever seen it....we all love the Bogart & Huston 1941 Classic....its a weird film to try and collect on but material is rare and that is the real reason it can achieve those prices...

These 4 results from lobby cards that I personally owned and consigned raise different points in terms of emovieposter getting great results for rare paper:
(I absolutely had no idea these results would happen..they aren't marquee pieces..I figured they were all $200 cards at best)

1. Grandma's Boy 1922 LC (I purchased it from ebay for $25: sold on EMP for $999
http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/archiveitem/5997853.html

2. Revolt of the Zombies  1936 LC (purchased from ebay $56 : sold on EMP $780
http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/archiveitem/1288244.html

3. Charlie Chan in Paris 1935 LC (purchased from POHMOA for $110: sold on EMP for $654

http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/archiveitem/1468600.html

4. Time of their lives 1946 LC (purchased cinevent auction $50: sold on EMP for $546)

http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/archiveitem/16648483.html

[Simes]

Emperor's new clothes, or the Power of Bruce?

[Filmlobbycards]

I understand the semantics but where and when you sell is a big factor as well....rare material deserves to be sold with care and consideration....
The recent Gaston and Sheehan auction was unimpressive to say the least...it was all UNI horror with very few lots competing...I talked to the G&H lady on the phone...she didnt really know how to handle questions on shipping posters and condition grades...obviously the wrong venue when it comes to advertising as well!!!...Heritage would have done much better!!

POH sold Morrie Everett's collection in really fucked up lots with terrible condition listing's..He wasn't happy at all...I talked to him about it..Bruce would have done the material a real service and it would have sold over a long period of time and the results would have been much better..the smart people (I will raise my hand) have made a lot of money breaking up cards and selling what we didnt want to keep through EMP) and there are record results from these sales ...

side note...Everyone who is keeping an eye on Charlie Chan Oland material knows this in spades

Julians did a very poor job selling the Schrader collection....poorest job I have ever seen for material of that magnitude...the saving grace was Heritage aggressively bought some of the material and sold it in separate lots and they had some really great results in areas...they didnt sell it correctly either....but that is the game

The Ira Resnick Starstruck Auction did really well in a few areas and terrible in others...once again the advertising was awful....I signed up and tried to bid live and their customer service failed me in every way...what a bunch of corporate idiots...I'm still pissed about it  ..regardless...the slate of other great auctions PREVIOUSLY castrated some of that material...it was really amazing paper btw and deserved to be sold in a different way and a different time....it really matters WHERE, WHEN and HOW you sell your collection!

It's not always about rarity....timing and venue really matter as well....but once again...as Graham Arader pushes endlessly: Rarity, Condition, Historical Importance and Aesthetic appeal..that's a fucking winner!

[redman]

the auction i look forward to most is EMPs non-USA rolled every month/bi-month
got a bit excited to see one of favourite animators their with a fecking-country-of-origin



but i just noticed that it is now at $350 so i guess i'll save my pennies for major auction time 

[redman]

^ sold for $952 

[MoviePosterBid.com]

I understand the semantics but where and when you sell is a big factor as well....rare material deserves to be sold with care and consideration....
The recent Gaston and Sheehan auction was unimpressive to say the least...it was all UNI horror with very few lots competing...I talked to the G&H lady on the phone...she didnt really know how to handle questions on shipping posters and condition grades...obviously the wrong venue when it comes to advertising as well!!!...Heritage would have done much better!!

POH sold Morrie Everett's collection in really fucked up lots with terrible condition listing's..He wasn't happy at all...I talked to him about it..Bruce would have done the material a real service and it would have sold over a long period of time and the results would have been much better..the smart people (I will raise my hand) have made a lot of money breaking up cards and selling what we didnt want to keep through EMP) and there are record results from these sales ...

side note...Everyone who is keeping an eye on Charlie Chan Oland material knows this in spades

Julians did a very poor job selling the Schrader collection....poorest job I have ever seen for material of that magnitude...the saving grace was Heritage aggressively bought some of the material and sold it in separate lots and they had some really great results in areas...they didnt sell it correctly either....but that is the game

The Ira Resnick Starstruck Auction did really well in a few areas and terrible in others...once again the advertising was awful....I signed up and tried to bid live and their customer service failed me in every way...what a bunch of corporate idiots...I'm still pissed about it  ..regardless...the slate of other great auctions PREVIOUSLY castrated some of that material...it was really amazing paper btw and deserved to be sold in a different way and a different time....it really matters WHERE, WHEN and HOW you sell your collection!

It's not always about rarity....timing and venue really matter as well....but once again...as Graham Arader pushes endlessly: Rarity, Condition, Historical Importance and Aesthetic appeal..that's a fucking winner!

Tait, the likelihood that anyone would have done $5million in sales from Morrie's collection in less than a year in any fashion other than how Profiles handled it is zero. Missouri would be auctioning the stuff for 50 years, with tons of it for less than $5 per card and HA would have sold it better, but Morrie still would not have gotten $4m+ by today

factually, selling 200,000 lobby cards is impossible without selling it as lot groups and I have no expectation that my own stock of almost 200,000 posters etc will be sold the same way

[Filmlobbycards]

Perhaps but we will never know....you have to remember that one buyer alone didnt pay for over $120,000 in material (there were also others)and Morrie ended up getting the cards back and Heritage bought a ton of lots and resold them in a trickled out fashion over the next few years as well..that really skews the numbers in a way where a major auction house was purchasing material for resale (we have already seen how that alters an auction with the Julien's Schrader/Osian's material: those $25,000 Keaton lots were Heritage and an unnamed archive in a bid war that drove those results)...not for pure individualistic collecting purposes either way...I don't know if Heritage buys from Bruce...but taking Heritage's bidding firepower out of the picture changes any result Bruce would have..I would be interested to know what Morrie actually made at the end ...certainly nowhere close to 4 million..I think Bruce could have sold the best material over a year broken up and done very well...It would hypothetically be a combo of bulk lots and broken up individual lobby card sets at Bruce's in a similar model as PIH...I would venture to guess that 75% of the lobby card volume sold in the 2 PIH auctions were bulk lots anyway....I think other auction houses could have handled that....a lot of really high end material was sold in 4-10 card lots that would have done much better in Heritage and Emovieposter auctions...that was my point

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Perhaps but we will never know....you have to remember that one buyer alone didnt pay for over $120,000 in material (there were also others)and Morrie ended up getting the cards back and Heritage bought a ton of lots and resold them in a trickled out fashion over the next few years as well..that really skews the numbers in a way where a major auction house was purchasing material for resale (we have already seen how that alters an auction with the Julien's Schrader/Osian's material: those $25,000 Keaton lots were Heritage and an unnamed archive in a bid war that drove those results)...not for pure individualistic collecting purposes either way...I don't know if Heritage buys from Bruce...but taking Heritage's bidding firepower out of the picture changes any result Bruce would have..I would be interested to know what Morrie actually made at the end ...certainly nowhere close to 4 million..I think Bruce could have sold the best material over a year broken up and done very well...It would hypothetically be a combo of bulk lots and broken up individual lobby card sets at Bruce's in a similar model as PIH...I would venture to guess that 75% of the lobby card volume sold in the 2 PIH auctions were bulk lots anyway....I think other auction houses could have handled that....a lot of really high end material was sold in 4-10 card lots that would have done much better in Heritage and Emovieposter auctions...that was my point

I really don't understand what your point is here.
One one hand you are saying that Bruce is doing better than Profiles, but on the other hand, you're saying that Heritage allegedly buying stuff affects the prices improperly, which would mean (if true) HA's absence would only make the resultant prices at Profiles lower, which would widen the gap.

I can say that I doubt Heritage buys as much as you might think they buy, and quite a lot of material is consigned to them by people who buy material expecting to sell a certain amount & consign it to them. As a matter of fact, HA sold 2 items for me just today in the comics auction that I had no intention of doing anything other than send them to HA when they came in. Oh by the way, the sold them today for double and triple their previous results on these items, both very expensive items. Even before I bought them, my intention was to send them to HA

regardless. I think that it doesn't matter who is the buyer of the material in auction, dealer or collector. The hammer price is the hammer price.

[Simes]

https://movieposters.ha.com/itm/mystery/the-saint-in-new-york-rko-1938-folded-fine-one-sheet-27-x-41-mystery/a/161852-55332.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Oh dear.

This poster had some (sort of) love, but entirely on the cheap.

Bottom right.

[50s]

Yea, how is that Fine-  ? I think that would be Poor in EMP standards

[Crazy Vick]

That is weak.

Sure hope the description gets updated soon.

[bigmike]

Yea, how is that Fine-  ? I think that would be Poor in EMP standards

To add on to this, I have had posters I bought from HA that were rated fine and fine+!!, that I had send to Emp for consignments earlier this year, which can be seen on my consignment thread and you can also verify on HA. For example, you can verify this for yourselves through the auction results on Emp and Ha... look at my abbot and Costello meet Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde that I had bought from HA last year and later this year sent to Emp couple months ago.
 I had lost a significant amount of money from the posters I bought from HA and had to consign to Emp due to the condition of the posters rating from HA....

[Crazy Vick]

Me: "hey honey do you mind if I go out tonight and leave you with the kids"
Wife: "Fine."

 = RED FLAG

[Simes]

In the history of HA poster sales, has there Ever been anything Other than a Fine something rating?

I'll go first.  No.

[bigmike]

In the history of HA poster sales, has there Ever been anything Other than a Fine something rating?

I'll go first.  No.

Exact same poster.. went from HA to EMP
$770 big loss for $277

HA’s description
 “An unrestored poster with good color and an overall very presentable appearance. It may have tears, slight paper loss, pinholes, mild creases, minor stains, and/or some fold separation. There is writing and pen marks in the top border of the poster. Please see full-color, enlargeable image above for more details. Folded, Fine+“

EMPs description
“Condition: fair to good. There is slight discoloration scattered in various areas due to exposure to moisture (more noticeable around the several tack holes around the edges of the poster). Some of the tack holes are torn or enlarged due to rough removal and there is paper loss in the upper right blank border. There is separation in the ends of some of the folds and in the crossfolds, and some crossfolds (especially the lower crossfold) have some paper loss. There is writing in portions of the upper blank border. Despite the poster's defects it is mostly "all there" and it could be restored and linenbacked and it would look great, but please bear in mind its defects and cost of restoration before placing a bid.
Learn More about condition grades“

[Harry Caul]

Me: "hey honey do you mind if I go out tonight and leave you with the kids"
Wife: "Fine."

 = RED FLAG

 

[crowzilla]

In the history of HA poster sales, has there Ever been anything Other than a Fine something rating?

I'll go first.  No.

This Frankenstein Three-Sheet was rated Fair to Good on linen.
https://movieposters.ha.com/itm/horror/frankenstein-universal-1931-three-sheet-41-x-785-style-c/a/7106-86187.s?

[crowzilla]

Exact same poster.. went from HA to EMP
$770 big loss for $277

Let's see, the time prior to yours that EMP sold a A&C Meet Jekyll and Hyde one-sheet it brought $253, and the instance prior to that was $412 (at a time Uni Horror was much higher across the board).
What in those results would give you an idea that they could even come close to matching the $717 that you paid? In fact, of the six prior times they sold that poster, only once did it even break $700. It sounds like you were doomed from the start by your choice of venue.

On the other hand, in the two years prior to your sale Heritage also sold copies of the one-sheet for $1,015 and $956 (and I see three other times they sold copies for $1,000+).
When you purchase from a place that gets really strong results in a given area, you should probably consider using that place when it is time to sell.

[bigmike]

Let's see, the time prior to yours that EMP sold a A&C Meet Jekyll and Hyde one-sheet it brought $253, and the instance prior to that was $412 (at a time Uni Horror was much higher across the board).
What in those results would give you an idea that they could even come close to matching the $717 that you paid? In fact, of the six prior times they sold that poster, only once did it even break $700. It sounds like you were doomed from the start by your choice of venue.

On the other hand, in the two years prior to your sale Heritage also sold copies of the one-sheet for $1,015 and $956 (and I see three other times they sold copies for $1,000+).
When you purchase from a place that gets really strong results in a given area, you should probably consider using that place when it is time to sell.

This poster
Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein (Universal, R-1956). One Sheet (27" X 41"). This Universal horror film had the studio'...

Was listed the same time I had the other one from HA at the same time, sold for 1000 on HA.
It was also listed same time when I had other poster for sale same time at EMP and sold for 940.

The grading from what I purchased is completely different. If there is discolouration disclose it. Not label it as fine plus.

[crowzilla]

The grading from what I purchased is completely different. If there is discolouration disclose it. Not label it as fine plus.

Yes, because you resold it at a place that uses it a different grading system (than any other dealer).
If you thought it was discolored when you got it, then you should have returned it.
I look at the colors and think it looks great, compare yours to the colors on the copy EMP sold for $253 and did NOT label as discolored.
I would take yours in a heartbeat - darker, richer and much more vibrant.

Again, venue matters.  Don't sell Tiffanys at Wal-mart.

[bigmike]

Again, venue matters.  Don't sell Tiffanys at Wal-mart.

So does customer service. No issues with EMP... couple with HA...
When I had one of my card sets listed with HA, they were supposed to be sent and graded by PSA (to match the others that were graded). I agreed to the wait and pay the extra charges in grading... later that time, they said they will list the cards as is instead of grading them with Psa..

I received my consignment cheque less grading charges, when the cards were never graded. After waiting and arguing with customer service and having them take a look into it. I would have to wait an additional month to receive the funds that were mischarged to me. Even though their fault for charging me, they still said I had to wait an additional month for the remainder of my funds..
Not a good experience to want you to send your other items too....