Author Topic: Maud Adam sig - is it real?  (Read 7508 times)

Offline Silhouette

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Maud Adam sig - is it real?
« on: December 16, 2013, 01:46:39 AM »
I have a question mark on the first one because one thing that seems consistent with the others is the shape of the first 'letter', like the number 4















David


Offline Silhouette

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Re: Maud Adam sig - is it real?
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2013, 02:45:56 AM »
And so I wondered, as I had some time on my hands...what about this sig, some random comparisons - what do you think?

The V seems very different" sharp 'pointy' beginning and same at the bottom - except one (beginning) all others are more rounded (beginning and bottom) and the "L" doesn't run into "ake" like the others. Also, looks perhaps like it has been traced over?

« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 02:51:41 AM by Silhouette »
David


Offline marklawd

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Re: Maud Adam sig - is it real?
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2013, 04:07:55 AM »
I share your opinion David. The Veronica Lake signature looks as if it was written in sections rather than in a continuous flowing manner judging by the ink flow.

Mark

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Re: Maud Adam sig - is it real?
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2013, 04:53:17 AM »
This is why we give all buyers 30 days (from after the close of the auctions) to check out their purchases with grading services, and if they don't check out, they can return them for a full refund.

And of course, if experts contact us while the auctions are running with strong doubts about specific signed items, then we end the auctions.

We are not autograph experts, and we put all we know about how the autograph (and the item itself) was obtained on each auction.

Personally, I don't think "COAs" are worth much (unless they are from the very most reputable places) but if we were given one then we picture that with the item.


Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Maud Adam sig - is it real?
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2013, 02:00:24 PM »
a COA from an ebay seller is very useful.. to start a fire in your fireplace

as to guarantees.. If I sell an autographed item (as I will be soon) I guarantee that piece as long as I am in business. If I can't guarantee an autographed item that well, I may as well close up shop.

an autograph is only worth as much as the guarantee behind it

want to be able to sell autographs without any question of it's authenticity?
it's simple: if you have any question at all, don't sell it

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Offline Silhouette

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Re: Maud Adam sig - is it real?
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2013, 02:24:36 PM »
This is why we give all buyers 30 days (from after the close of the auctions) to check out their purchases with grading services, and if they don't check out, they can return them for a full refund.

And of course, if experts contact us while the auctions are running with strong doubts about specific signed items, then we end the auctions.

We are not autograph experts, and we put all we know about how the autograph (and the item itself) was obtained on each auction.

Personally, I don't think "COAs" are worth much (unless they are from the very most reputable places) but if we were given one then we picture that with the item.

I agree, COAs aren't worth anything, but you are promoting the Lake one as coming with a COA, so by association you are suggesting it's the real deal.

As I have said, I am no expert either but the Miss Lake one looks different enough to question its authenticity now, if you prefer to wait until the buyer does or does not decide to check out whether the item you have sold them is real or not well of course that is up to you.
David


Offline Silhouette

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Re: Maud Adam sig - is it real?
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2013, 01:35:05 AM »
More of my own research...

Elvis Presley sig looks authentic, one of the (many) clues is the way the P is part of the Elvis and the "resley is almost like a separate word.
Charles Bronson 1958 sig seems to be signed with a sharpie pen that didn't get invented until 1964, prior to 1970 he appears to only have ever signed with a ball point pen or perhaps fountain pen. That is neither.
Raymond Burr - did he sign with a Sharpie pen a year before it was invented?
Pierce Brosnan - I can only find one instance where he signs his surname so short/on top of itself, remarkably it's the same photograph and pretty much the same pen. http://goo.gl/jELDg6
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 01:39:44 AM by Silhouette »
David


Offline paul waines

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Re: Maud Adam sig - is it real?
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2013, 01:44:10 AM »
I have to say 30days is very poor Bruce, all the Signature dealers I know give a life-time guarantee. If your selling Autographs it should be the same, as long as the buyer just isn't fed-up of it, and it's been proven to be fake. 
It's more than a Hobby...

Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Maud Adam sig - is it real?
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2013, 02:36:37 AM »
all the Signature dealers I know give a life-time guarantee. If your selling Autographs it should be the same, as long as the buyer just isn't fed-up of it, and it's been proven to be fake.  

and when a dealer gives a guarantee of that nature, it makes the dealer much more diligent in what autographs he/she considers selling. I have autographs I am absolutely positive are authentic, autographs I absolutely know are forgeries and autographs I am not at all certain of one way or the other

the material I know is authentic is going to start going through my auctions.
the material I know are forgeries are in an envelope marked forgeries and they will never be sold, no matter that I have money in them - and not a small bit of money either.
the material I am unsure of sits in another envelope, also not being sold and probably never will be sold as even dealers I have shown them to cannot be certain and "I think these are real, but I'm not sure" means I will not sell them.
do I have a money loss on the material I won't sell? you bet I do. Better me than someone else if I have them now.

I guarantee my autographs as long as I'm in business, because I have no doubt about their authenticity at time of sale, so I won't have any doubt about their authenticity at time of resale.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 02:39:34 AM by MoviePosterBid.com »

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Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Maud Adam sig - is it real?
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2013, 02:37:56 AM »
by the way David, I don't see any of the autographs you refer to re: Presley, Burr etc.
where are they?

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Offline wonka

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Re: Maud Adam sig - is it real?
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2013, 11:19:12 AM »
Maud Adams is not ugly.
"Ben. His name is Ben. But he's a Celtic fan, so Asshole will do too." -Thierry

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Offline Silhouette

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Re: Maud Adam sig - is it real?
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2013, 01:38:14 PM »
by the way David, I don't see any of the autographs you refer to re: Presley, Burr etc.
where are they?

Presley http://goo.gl/81nbTM
Bronson http://goo.gl/f3nEfB
Burr http://goo.gl/MWSrKc
Brosnan http://goo.gl/JvOSgd

« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 01:38:37 PM by Silhouette »
David


Offline Silhouette

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Re: Maud Adam sig - is it real?
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2013, 02:36:48 PM »
David


Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Maud Adam sig - is it real?
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2013, 03:02:35 PM »
anytime there is any question at all about autographs, just don't bother with them

forgers rely on the emotional responses of collectors. "Oh I have to have it, I have to have, I HAVE TO HAVE IT"

I don't have to have anything other than food, water and a home. Everything is is "I want it", but do I have to want it now?
NO

you want absolutely authentic material? buy contracts or checks and even the checks could be secretarial.
Alternately, get them from people you absolutely know had certain connections to the person or where you know the owner got them at a convention personally & may even have photographic proof.

the only guarantee worth anything in autographs is "I will take them back anytime, without any discussion"

« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 03:03:18 PM by MoviePosterBid.com »

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Offline crowzilla

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Re: Maud Adam sig - is it real?
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2013, 04:56:27 PM »
I hear that Tom Loce also gives buyers 30 days to return items.

Unfortunately, most buyers don't find out until long after that they have been screwed.
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Offline Silhouette

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Re: Maud Adam sig - is it real?
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2013, 09:28:41 PM »
Clayton Moore

Not one of his signatures/autographs that I have researched have I found where his 'y' has ended like that (of about 30 I checked), none. Couple of dubious ones where it went straight down but none hooked back like that, almost all rounded back over. Plus he's in his late 70s or early 80s by this time and that's a hell of a strong signature for a guy who actually had pretty bad handwriting anyway, possible of course.

http://goo.gl/TlYXxm
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 09:58:35 PM by Silhouette »
David


Offline Silhouette

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Re: Maud Adam sig - is it real?
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2013, 09:56:00 PM »
To be brutally honest, I've only gone through a couple pages but I will say based on my research results and solely in my opinion I'd guess maybe as much as a third of all that are on offer may be suspect. It is true I am no expert, but my research and discoveries would seem to be somewhat more convincing than simply relying on the consignor's word and their COA alone.

I note the 30 day guarantee has been now been removed (replaced with a lifetime one I assume?) but given the care you put into authenticating posters I am surprised at the seemingly lack of same you have put into the dumping of a large quantity of un-authenticated autographs on customers.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 09:59:15 PM by Silhouette »
David


Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Maud Adam sig - is it real?
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2013, 11:08:15 PM »
here we go folks.

this load of pics contains both definite fakes and guaranteed authentic autographs

who wants to take a shot & say which are which?







































































 

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Offline Silhouette

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Re: Maud Adam sig - is it real?
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2013, 01:29:39 AM »
A speed check

At a glance

Jane Russell is suspect...
The squiggle she put under her name and on the stem of the R was normally not part of the name (not that I could find) - she lifted her pen to do it - so it's not joined to the L as it is in that pic.

The first two Elivis' (Elvi?) is suspect, the third seems real...
As near as I can find he always curled the bottom of his Y on itself in his name and interestingly, but not always didn't curl the Y in the other words if he wrote some.

Bela Lugosi is suspect...
None of the Bs I found were as perfect as that, he had poor writing and also in many cases that sideways L underline only started after the 'g' (but not always), also more often than not he signed on the angle.

James Dean, dunno but geeze, he must have sat there one day and written a variation of the same message so many times...

http://goo.gl/nycFv0
http://goo.gl/8rHt6N

That said the few James Dean seemingly authentic sigs I can dig up tend to show "ames" and "ean" part of his signature as almost a flat line - so I'd probably want to double check yours.

Then I got thirsty...
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 02:15:03 AM by Silhouette »
David


Offline Silhouette

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Re: Maud Adam sig - is it real?
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2013, 01:53:17 AM »
"4t542 BETTY GRABLE signed 8x10 REPRO still '90s sexy full-length portrait in showgirl costume!"

...ummm didn't she die in 1973? If it is from the '90s then I am almost 100% certain it's a fake, but I am no expert. :P

http://auctions.emovieposter.com/Bidding.taf?_function=detail&Auction_uid1=3227281






typo I am sure, no biggie just funny given the current discussion
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 02:44:59 AM by Silhouette »
David


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Re: Maud Adam sig - is it real?
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2013, 02:33:38 AM »
"4t542 BETTY GRABLE signed 8x10 REPRO still '90s sexy full-length portrait in showgirl costume!"

...ummm didn't she die in 1973? If it is from the '90s then I am almost 100% certain it's a fake, but I am no expert. :P

unbelievable
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 02:39:58 AM by MoviePosterBid.com »

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Offline crowzilla

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Re: Maud Adam sig - is it real?
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2013, 03:52:34 AM »
"4t542 BETTY GRABLE signed 8x10 REPRO still '90s sexy full-length portrait in showgirl costume!"

...ummm didn't she die in 1973? If it is from the '90s then I am almost 100% certain it's a fake, but I am no expert. :P

http://auctions.emovieposter.com/Bidding.taf?_function=detail&Auction_uid1=3227281

HEY NOW!
That's not nice - he feels certain it is authentic.







typo I am sure, no biggie just funny given the current discussion
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Offline Silhouette

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Re: Maud Adam sig - is it real?
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2013, 03:34:04 PM »
Janet Leigh

Well people another for your perusal and opinions....mine is below, don't cheat





So, IMHO one thing that sticks out is that her "L's" almost always seem to be quite flourishy and tend to cross through the 'e' or sometimes through a lot of her surname, and sometime the 'h' in Leighs ends with a flourish too but that's not one to hang the hat on, besides I think one could spend a lot of time picking up letter variations but for me the real cruncher was the dotting of the "i" in her surname, wherever I have found what appears to be a genuine signature in all occasions the dot is (a) visible and (b) lower than the 'h', in fact she seems to always dot any 'i' in any name or word close to the letter rather than randomly

« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 03:36:53 PM by Silhouette »
David


Offline Silhouette

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Re: Maud Adam sig - is it real?
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2013, 04:29:14 PM »
Farrah Fawcett

Seriously, are you kidding?!







First up - she ALWAYS crosses her F in BOTH first and surname, and on every occasion I can find the F starts with a stem not a loop, and hell may as well add, all her sigs are legible.

« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 04:53:34 PM by Silhouette »
David


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Re: Maud Adam sig - is it real?
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2013, 10:01:47 PM »
alright.. I guess no one wants to have a go at the autographed photos I put up yesterday, so I'm just going to give you the answers
Pay attention. You are about to get an education


#1 American Grafitti album.. this is a sad sad situation. This is an item that contains authentic autographs, that was later bastardized by the Valley Forger, in particular, when the forger added Harrison Ford's autograph. That is a fake signature, though almost all but the others are real. I actually had 3 opportunities to show this to some of these signatories in person, and they all said Paul Le Mat's signature is fake. It was funny too.. "Oh yes. that's my signature, but Paul doesn't sign this way" was the exact comment from all three people. Back to the HF signature.. if you see something signed like that, don't bother with it.. FAKE

PS: most HF sigs are fakes. He is what's called "non-co-operative". Authentic sigs are rare and secretarial are common. Forgeries by the Valley Forger are even more common.

#2 Streisand... non co-operative and this one is .... FAKE!
examine it along the Ford sig above.. do you see any similarity in the motion of the lines?? Also, particularly pay attention to the letter A in small case in the autographs to see Mr Forger's similarity

#3 Elvis.. Yes David.... another Valley Forger work.. watch for the small case trailing E's and ending swishes folks..

#4 Where ya gonna run to Jimmy Dean Jimmy Dean.. where ya gonna run to Jimmy Dean????  
I tell ya what Jimmy, when you run to the garbage dump, can you bring this Valley Forger FAKE with you? Please do.. it's worth more as mulch than it is as an autograph. Look at the lower case A's and also notice, it's a right-handed person trying to emulate left-handed writing

#5 Ray Bolger/Jack Haley
probable fake, though may be an authentic piece used to spice up an assortment of fakes/real to help the deal sell. Came from the Valley Forger, so there is guilt by association, and therefore the verdict: unsaleable item

#6 Bela Lugosi.. it's a good fake, but it's still a FAKE.. Valley Forger at work

#7 Natalie Wood.. do yuo guys yet see the similarities in work done by the Valley Forger?? say you do, so I know this lesson was at least worth something to someone but it was free to you. I'm another story!

#8 Vivien Leigh..  I don't know how this FAKE even got by me the first time

#9 More Elvis.. if you think it doesn't look like it was done by the same hand as the one above, this lesson is wasted on you.. Go back to the TV and keep watching Survivor.

#10 Stooges......... *sigh*
the only good thing about that sig is it's the one I showed a friend who informed me I had been fooled. FAKE FAKE FAKE .... the NYUKS were on me

#11 Belushi & Aykroyd.. same hand folks.. look at the A's and swishes again, and again.. save yourself from FAKE autographs

#12 Marlene.. this is almost certainly real. However, it was seeded into a deal of fakes and is now ruined for all eternity due to it's taint.

This is where you separate the men from the boys people. I have considerable money in these FAKE autographs and more and regardless of that fact, I am not about to let other people be stung by them. I'll pay for the loss, but I will allow you all to learn from my loss.
If yuo examine that material and understand the characteristics of the signatures, the pens, the way the paper sheets are cut to fool you.. You can see alot of similarities in how some forgers work..

I have to get back to my work.. Who wants to continue the list by identifying the remaining pictures..
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 10:07:10 PM by MoviePosterBid.com »

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