Author Topic: The History of the Hobby  (Read 82249 times)

Offline brude

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The History of the Hobby
« on: March 08, 2013, 01:07:41 AM »
Kirby, Bruce, Rich, Sean, etc., etc., etc.
Stories about purchases, dealers, collectors, investors, big sales, firsts, events, memories...
Share those anecdotes here and post as many pictures as you can.
Australia, England, Italy...wherever posters are collected...stories?

It really sucks that many of the greatest collectors in this hobby just visit as guests.
Their contributions would add so much to the history of this hobby.
Please register and post away.
We'd love to have you on board.
 cheers

Online Starling

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Re: The History of the Hobby
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2013, 12:54:41 PM »
I wish we could get Benito on this thread....would LOVE to hear how he amassed such a phenomenal collection of posters. 

Offline paul waines

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Re: The History of the Hobby
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2013, 12:59:10 PM »
Unfortunately, I do find this hobby is rife with Snobbery. Which is why we don't tend to hear from a lot of the high end collectors... 
It's more than a Hobby...

Offline erik1925

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Re: The History of the Hobby
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2013, 01:26:16 PM »
I dont think that snobbery has much to do with many high end collectors/collections. Those who have the deep pockets put together outstanding collections of rare and expensive pieces and do so quietly and without fanfare (well, most do anyhow- certain people like Ralph DeLuca likes to show his peacock feathers now and then, and Benito basically rotates his collection daily/monthly on ebay  ;) ).

These collectors don't feel the need to discuss the hows and whys on forums like APF, unfortunately.

And I think that certain people perhaps dont speak up because they don't want their names and collections out there from a security POV.  8)



-Jeff

Offline paul waines

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Re: The History of the Hobby
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2013, 01:41:24 PM »

These collectors don't feel the need to discuss the hows and whys on forums like APF, unfortunately.


Snobbery then...




And I think that certain people perhaps dont speak up because they don't want their names and collections out there from a security POV.  8)



Rubbish, we know who these people are, and where they live, so by not being involved how does this make them more secure. I'm also sure if they are like me they will have first rate security systems. In fact those with the deeper pockets will have systems that put mine to shame...
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 01:42:06 PM by paul waines »
It's more than a Hobby...

Offline erik1925

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Re: The History of the Hobby
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2013, 02:16:26 PM »
Snobbery then...




Rubbish, we know who these people are, and where they live, so by not being involved how does this make them more secure. I'm also sure if they are like me they will have first rate security systems. In fact those with the deeper pockets will have systems that put mine to shame...

Equating and saying silence is the same as snobbery (as a blanket description) applied to all high end collectors who do not discuss their posters, is something I dont agree with, but we are all entitled to our opinion. Makes for a good discussion.  ;)

I would be willing to say that there are a good number of high end, low key collectors whose names are unknown to poster forums or online groups. I'm not talking about the Metropolis 3sh or the Frankenstein 6 sheet, which made news but collectors of other more rare posters (US or foreign) from the 1920's, '30s, '40s and so on.

I was speaking of "security" = having their name out there, not their actual home alarm system. Some do not want, nor do they feel comfortable being in the more public eye. So they retain a low profile. It's no different than those who opt for the flip side of the collecting coin. This is their choice.

Look at certain buyers in some of Bruce's recent auctions, for example. Not too long ago, one buyer bought a HUGE number of Bond items, spending thousands of dollars in that one auction alone. Folks on APF were asking and wondering if it was a fellow member. If that person is a member, it was never revealed, nor did that buyer ever speak up on APF, as far as I can recall.  8)







-Jeff

Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: The History of the Hobby
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2013, 02:27:37 PM »
I wish we could get Benito on this thread....would LOVE to hear how he amassed such a phenomenal collection of posters. 

he was buying when the material was cheap and people gave it away. he also as an executive had lots of money. combination=perfect

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Offline jayn_j

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Re: The History of the Hobby
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2013, 03:33:10 PM »
(well, most do anyhow- certain people like Ralph DeLuca likes to show his peacock feathers now and then, and Benito basically rotates his collection daily/monthly on ebay  ;) ).

I posted a basic primer thread on satelliteguys.us in the home theater area, and ralph chimed in and posted there once.
http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/159926-A-Movie-Poster-Primer

Seems he would have a better time here.
-Jay-

Offline CSM

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Re: The History of the Hobby
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2013, 04:09:35 PM »
Chris

Offline 110x75

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Re: The History of the Hobby
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2013, 04:23:15 PM »
Jon Warren's text on the "Royal Theater Collection":

The Royal Theater Collection -- Jon R. Warren
--------------------------------------------------------

Kirby, Sol Candell, Bruce, Morris and (if he reads MPT) Todd will have fun contributing to this thread and reminiscing about this great find.

In 1990 or 91, can't remember now, a group of investors and I purchased what has come to be called the Canadian Collection for $320,000 (or somewhere around there, something over $300,000 but I don't recall the exact amount).

I flew up there, inspected the collection, and paid the cashier's check to THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT!

The collection was a matter of legal dispute over who owned the posters...so the collection was sold and, pending the outcome of the court, the proceeds were to be paid to the winner of the argument.

In a small town in Canada named Provost there once was a theater called The Royal Theater (what a great name!). The posters found there truly were royal.

The theater had been in the family since the 1920s, and in the late 1980s it had been sold to a new owner who was renovating it to be turned into a video store.

In the process of tearing out walls, lo and behold, a closet was found with a door in the floor which led down into a long-lost basement. In the basement were piles upon piles of old movie posters, dating from about 1929 and going through about 1950. From this time period, virtually every film that had been released was represented by multiple one sheets, lobby card sets, and (oddly enough) mini window cards. Even more astounding was the condition of the posters. Because of the dark and dry and cool conditions, the posters were in simply unbelievable condition (except for those that had what we called rat piss on them, yellow streaks of...well...rat piss). Pristine white borders without the slightest trace of yellowing. Brilliant colors that practically glowed. And the smell...ahh that faint musty scent...

Stacks and stacks, multiple copies, mint sets of Casablanca, Hound of the Baskervilles, Adventures of Robin Hood... you name it, it was there. Except for Universal horror, which was oddly not represented at all. Some have speculated that the Universal horror films were not shown in Canada due to censors. Others have speculated that the Universal horror WAS there, and that what the police confiscated and sold to me and my group was really just the tip of the iceberg. If so, what a tip!

Now, the new owner had told the work crew to clear the place out, to gut it, and to get rid of all the accumulated junk and trash.

So they did. But on the way to the dump one of the workers got the bright idea that the posters might have value. They decided to keep them and take them to the flea market that Saturday. And that was when the troubles began. Little did they know that by doing so they were breaking Canadian law.

Some of the others can chip in here, for the details of that Saturday, exactly how Sol Candell became involved, and other facts in the early discovery of the posters is a bit vague for me after all these years.

I remember that somehow Candell (coincidentally?) was at the flea market, that they started something called the Edmonton Poster Society, that a TV news show spotlighted the society, which was how the original theater owners and the new theater owners came to find out they had been ripped off (really now, they didn't even know the posters were there and besides, had given instructions to throw out the trash), but nevertheless, after the news show exclaimed how wonderful and possibly valuable these posters could be all hell broke loose and a war over the posters began.

The first thing that happened was the new owner had the work crew members arrested for theft. One of the work crew, a Daniel Pelletier (I believe his first name was Daniel, might have been David) was mentally unstable, or on medication which he failed to get while in jail. He committed suicide. He couldn't live with the idea of going to jail for something he did not even know was against the law.

The police confiscated the posters, and it was these confiscations that my group purchased from the court. But, I have heard that only part of the posters were at the home where the police raid occurred and that a larger portion were elsewhere at the time, either at Sol Candell's or somewhere else.

The poster collecting world first became aware of the Canadian collection when Sol Candell ran a small ad in Movie Collector's World (I would love a copy of that issue) offering classic titles for dirt cheap prices. Poor Sol had no idea of the true value of some of these gems. He was selling Adventures of Robin Hood one sheets for $200, classic Temples and Garbos for $100, and so on. Maltese Falcon, mint, $50. That kind of thing.

A mle ensued.

Kirby McDaniel, Morris Everett, and Gary Vaughn were among the first callers, being so smart that they regularly had their copies of MCW delivered via Federal Express just for such eventualities. Todd Feiertag didn't bother to call. He hopped in his car and drove to Edmonton! Some wonder what Universal horrors the master Universal horror collector may or may not have obtained during this trip. Can you say Mummy?

A significant number of posters were sold to collectors all around the world as a result of that ad, and they all came to be named in the lawsuit. It seemed the Canadian government demanded the return of the posters under penalty of law!

Of course, the letters demanding the return of posters fell on reluctant collector ears, all of whom promptly filed the letters in file 13.

Before long, the law raided Sol Candell's place and confiscated his remaining posters, but not before a significant number were sold. And probably not before the work crew called and alerted him, giving him plenty of time to haul off a large bulk and store them in a secure, un-police-raided place.

Somewhere, about here, in this timeline, one of the workers (or someone, I can't remember the exact details) drove to Sol Candell's and demanded the return of the posters which had been given to Sol for consignment (these were the ones Sol was selling in MCW). According to legend, the story that was told to me, this person was found dead in his car on the side of the road a few days later. No posters were in his car. After getting posters from Sol, what happened to the young man? Had someone been casing Sol's place, waiting to rob him, and then followed the man who had loaded the piles of posters into his car? No one knows. The posters he took away that day were never found.

I received a letter in the mail from the Royal Canadian Government, notifying me of their intent to accept bids for the enclosed list of movie posters. It seems that the court was soliciting bids from major advertisers for the sale of the posters.

The list was, to put it mildly, mind blowing. After calculating conservatively, I figured the value of the collection to be worth more than $900,000. Way too rich for my blood, alone. But I had friends. After some convincing and arm twisting (they came into the deal kicking and screaming) they agreed to put in enough money to make a realistic bid. Steve Geppi was the largest investor, I was second, Steve Fishler was third, and Mark Wilson was the fourth investor.

The gossip and grapevine rattling surrounding the rumors of who was bidding and how much they were going to bid is a story unto itself. We were trying to reconnoiter bids so that we could top the second bid by the least amount possible. But it was Steve Geppi who said, to hell with it, let's not gamble, bid enough that we get it and don't worry about bidding too much more than the second guy.

We won the bid.

Mark Wilson and I went to Edmonton to take possession. I spent several days going through the collection, a time I will never forget. This was poster heaven. I mean, it was beyond my wildest dreams to ever get to see such gorgeous posters, much less own them. Mark and I kept shaking our heads at the incredible condition. And at the incredible titles.

Who won the lawsuit? What do you think? Did the original owner sell the real estate AND contents, or just the real estate. Who did the posters belong to? Who got the money? I'll tell you one thing: the workers didn't get it, they got criminal records instead.

Turns out, believe it or not, that the ORIGINAL OWNERS got the money. The new owner bought the real estate, but all the junk and papers abandoned inside were the property of the original owner until the second they hit the junkyard, at which time they would have became public domain.

Just think, if the workers had dumped the posters at the dump and then came back later and retrieved them they would have been the proud owners, legally, of a bunch of movie posters. But since they waylaid them prior to the dumping, they were thieves. Ironic, huh?

Over the next year or two we sold the collection. We recouped our investment within six months. My investors were extremely happy. They all now liked movie posters very much. Steve Fishler liked them so much he started collecting them. He has amassed quite a collection since that day in Tennessee when we decided to become partners and buy a collection in Canada. His collection includes a little poster we fondly call the Frankenstein six sheet.

How he came to own that six sheet is another story, quite different from the version we have seen on television. The poster was not found in a locked suitcase.

But that's another story. And I'm not at liberty to divulge, unfortunately, for it's a great yarn and spans the globe.

Jon R. Warren
Warren's Movie Poster Price Guide

Matias
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Offline CSM

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Re: The History of the Hobby
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2013, 04:42:04 PM »
Love reading that story again and again Matias
Chris

Offline pratschm

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Re: The History of the Hobby
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2013, 04:46:32 PM »
Wow, awesome (re)post? Matias. thumbup
That's the kind of stuff I want to read here. more More MOAR!!!!
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Offline 110x75

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Re: The History of the Hobby
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2013, 04:50:24 PM »
Love reading that story again and again Matias

Me too, my friend. I'm currently looking for Dario's story now...
Matias
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Offline 110x75

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Re: The History of the Hobby
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2013, 04:50:54 PM »
Wow, awesome (re)post? Matias. thumbup

more like (re)(re)(re)(re)(re)(re)(re) post.  ;)
Matias
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Offline Harry Caul

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Re: The History of the Hobby
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2013, 05:42:26 PM »
Unfortunately, I do find this hobby is rife with Snobbery. Which is why we don't tend to hear from a lot of the high end collectors... 

Sorry Paul, but when they see posts like these their suspicions will be confirmed and they'll leave as quietly as they came... 

Let's keep this thread on a positive note... the goal here is to break down barriers (real or perceived), not reinforce them.  I vote in favor of removing non-relevant posts or restarting the thread. 

Offline pratschm

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Re: The History of the Hobby
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2013, 05:45:52 PM »
Sorry Paul, but when they see posts like these their suspicions will be confirmed and they'll leave as quietly as they came... 

Let's keep this thread on a positive note... the goal here is to break down barriers (real or perceived), not reinforce them.  I vote in favor of removing non-relevant posts or restarting the thread. 

+1
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Offline stewart boyle

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Re: The History of the Hobby
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2013, 05:46:27 PM »
Sorry Paul, but when they see posts like these their suspicions will be confirmed and they'll leave as quietly as they came... 

Let's keep this thread on a positive note... the goal here is to break down barriers (real or perceived), not reinforce them.  I vote in favor of removing non-relevant posts or restarting the thread. 
I`m agreed it strayed of far too quickly
stew

Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: The History of the Hobby
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2013, 06:30:00 PM »
I'm not for modifying anything, but I disagree with Paul's post. There may be some snobbery, but it is a minority perspective

of course, my collection is still better than yours.. and yours.. and yours too
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 06:31:16 PM by MoviePosterBid.com »

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Offline paul waines

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Re: The History of the Hobby
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2013, 07:07:39 PM »
Well, I don't post my best stuff on here, it's far too good for you lot... ;)
It's more than a Hobby...

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Re: The History of the Hobby
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2013, 07:25:16 PM »
I've been lucky to pick up some massive collections over the years including at least three from New Zealand. I used to spend a lot of time over there about ten - fifteen years ago. The good thing about finding collections in NZ was that they used original posters from the US, Australia and Britain.

I knew one guy who owned a small cinema in a country town. He had a mountain of posters. He kept everything and had access to the various distributors in NZ. He also owned another building next to the cinema and that was filled with piles of posters from the 50s to more recent times.

When I was in NZ, I would give him a call and he used to let me loose in the building that housed the posters for a couple of hours at a time, usually while he was screening a movie. That gave me a couple of hours to try and find the decent titles amongst the huge piles of posters.

There were multiple copies of US one sheets, lobby cards, half sheets, 3 sheets, etc etc and, of course, lots of daybills. Problem was that it was all randomly stacked in piles about 3 feet high.

The good thing was that he usually charged $3.00 for a poster and $1.00 for a lobby card, irrespective of the title.

I felt like I was "on the clock" every time I arrived there and it was hard to know where to start looking. I remember one day, while searching through a pile of mostly junk titles, I found four sets of Lawrence of Arabia lobby cards. There were also lots of Elvis US one sheets and daybills and quite a few 50s Sci Fi titles. The owner used to charge a bit more for the Sci Fi posters - usually $10.00 each.

He used to base his prices on his poster sales which he would have about once a month when he let the public loose. He never made much money on those days and I think he was quite thrilled when I would spend a few hundred bucks each time I had a "private viewing".

I still have records of some of the posters I purchased and the prices I paid and now I wish I bought more but I have to say it was a lot of fun going through the stack of posters and finding the odd treasure.

Sadly, the cinema owner passed away and many of the posters were destroyed.

Online Neo

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Re: The History of the Hobby
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2013, 08:35:07 PM »

Sorry Paul, but when they see posts like these their suspicions will be confirmed and they'll leave as quietly as they came... 

Let's keep this thread on a positive note... the goal here is to break down barriers (real or perceived), not reinforce them.  I vote in favor of removing non-relevant posts or restarting the thread.


Agree.  thumbup  Aren't British folks, such as Paul, supposed to be charming?  :-\

Cool stories, Matias and John.  cool1

Offline Harry Caul

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Re: The History of the Hobby
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2013, 09:15:30 PM »
In Paul's defense... he IS one of those crotchety old school collectors!  When did you start collecting Paul... 70s?  I'm looking for back-in-the-day stories from you too!  Where and who did you buy from? 

Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: The History of the Hobby
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2013, 09:44:11 PM »
Matt, I've been collecting since the early sixties (comic books)
my first poster buy was 2 Universal 6 sheets, including Invisible Man's Revenge, for $20 from Dick Bojarski who wrote a book on Karloff. that would be 1967 or 68.

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Offline Filmlobbycards

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Re: The History of the Hobby
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2013, 11:33:55 PM »
I would like to find out more about the Alhambra theatre find as well as where Leonard Schrader found his Keaton lobby card sets...also there is this classic rerun from another thread



http://www.mcwonline.com/pdf/705drv.pdf

THE NEW ZEALAND COLLECTION

"During the early part of 1999, a collection of Universal Pictures half sheets were discovered under the floor of a
house being renovated in Wellington, New Zealand. The posters were in an amazing state of preservation, with the
majority of them in very fine to mint condition. The family that found them realized they had something unique and
tried to sell them through a local antique publication for $25.00 each. They had one call regarding the posters and the man who called offered
to buy every poster the family had. The family became suspicious that they might have something far more valuable
than they realized, so they declined the man’s offer and went about finding a way to discover the true value of the posters.

Through the internet, they found several poster dealers, but couldn’t find any prices to compare their posters to
(hey guys anyone who has ever bought a high line poster can relate to this, can’t we?). They next contacted some of the
auction houses including, Christie’s South Kensington and Bonham’s. The auction houses promised them quite a
return on their posters and the family suddenly became aware of the posters true value. However, rather than
pay high commissions and wishing to keep their discovery somewhat quiet, they decided to sell their collection privately.

It was at this point the family contacted a private dealer who then contacted Cinema Icons. The dealer knew
that Ron dealt in very rare Universal horror posters and that he would make them a fair offer on their items. In June
1999, he traveled to New Zealand and purchased one complete set of half sheets (meaning both the A and B styles) of each title they had.
Upon his arrival back in the U.S., the posters were immediately sold into private collections. And that’s where the story should have ended…

Over the course of the next year, he began to hear rumors the people in New Zealand still had more half sheets.
The rumor was that there were multiple copies of some of the half sheets, and there was at least one other complete set
of what he had purchased the prior year. He discounted the rumors because the family asked him to keep our transaction
quiet. They didn’t want people to know the posters had already been sold. He assumed the set he had purchased
was the same set that collectors were saying was still available. During this time, he kept hearing about the posters
coming to auction, first Sotheby’s New York, then Christie’s South Kensington. But with each catalog that was issued,
the posters failed to materialize, and he came to the conclusion that the rumor was just that; a rumor!

In October 2000, the New Zealand family called Ron. They told him that they did indeed still have more half
sheets. They were tired of dealing with the auction houses and were getting spooked when strange people were
showing up on their doorstep in New Zealand and asking about the posters. They wanted to know if he was interested
in buying them out.

He went into negotiations with them and was able to purchase all of their remaining posters. Before Ron
did this, he managed to get a statement from them that this was indeed the last of the posters.

The following list of posters accounts for the entire inventory of the horror posters from the New Zealand Collection.
Although Universal didn’t mark their half sheets as A and B styles, for simplicity, we’ve denoted the style that
has the same image as the title card as style A.

The Bride of Frankenstein (1935)

Style A – 2 copies
Style B – 3 copies (1 with the borders trimmed off)

The Raven (1935)

Style A – 1 copy
Style B - 4 copies

The Invisible Ray (1936)

Style A – 2 copies
Style B – 1 copy

Dracula’s Daughter (1936)

Style A – 3 copies (1 with a significant chunk out of the left side)
Style B – 4 copies

Tait

Offline Harry Caul

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Re: The History of the Hobby
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2013, 11:38:49 PM »
Matt, I've been collecting since the early sixties (comic books)
my first poster buy was 2 Universal 6 sheets, including Invisible Man's Revenge, for $20 from Dick Bojarski who wrote a book on Karloff. that would be 1967 or 68.

I don't mean to leave anyone out Rich!  I was hoping you and Bruce would contribute as well seeing as how you are regulars here. Looking forward to more stories!