Author Topic: Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread  (Read 63885 times)

Offline CSM

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Re: Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread
« Reply #75 on: December 16, 2012, 04:23:08 PM »
OK, so how does he get them removed?  And seriously, are ALL his posters fakes?

No not all his posters are fakes.  That's part of the plan though...mix the fakes in with the "reals"

He calls up eBay and complains, threatens and throws a tantrum.  They will remove negs for their "large accounts" regardless of a buyer being in the right...
Chris

Offline CSM

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Re: Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread
« Reply #76 on: December 16, 2012, 04:23:42 PM »
I'd also guess that if people make a claim to him a product is fake he will simply credit the purchase hence no sale hence no feedback can be recorded?

This is another way he gets around it.  If he ever gets called out (which is rarely!) he just refunds...
Chris

Offline Zorba

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Re: Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread
« Reply #77 on: December 16, 2012, 05:07:25 PM »
This is another way he gets around it.  If he ever gets called out (which is rarely!) he just refunds...

+1

he is pure scum.

Online eatbrie

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Re: Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread
« Reply #78 on: December 16, 2012, 06:34:38 PM »
Extremely entertaining.  This is the first time I even check this thread, because honestly, I don't need to be told something about Loce I have known for years.  Yes, he sells plenty of fakes, he always has and always will, until Ebay kicks him out.  Yes, he buries his fakes amongst originals, which is the best way to never get caught.  I admire Mel's work, though.  People like Loce and Eggplant have been ruining the hobby for years, and no one seems to be able to stop them.  Any attempt should be applauded.

T
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Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread
« Reply #79 on: December 22, 2012, 09:39:14 AM »
Locust is on the warpath again, threatening to sue me and file a bar complaint against me. He seems to think a guy with 17 years litigation experience, including dozens of trials and hearings, should be frightened by frivolous legal threats.  He doesn't understand that you can't get away with lying in court and that I'm going to depose him and go through his business records with a fine tooth comb if this ever comes to litigation.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2012, 10:05:33 AM by Dread_Pirate_Mel »

Offline oldposterho

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Re: Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread
« Reply #80 on: December 23, 2012, 10:16:52 AM »
Since the authenticity of what he sells would be a key question, you really wonder if a lawsuit is a path ol' Tom really wants to head down.  It's not like there'd be any shortage of witnesses or evidence...

--Peter
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Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread
« Reply #81 on: December 23, 2012, 01:28:34 PM »
Loce says he "only deals in original material that I acquired from legitimate sources" and that he "laughs heartily when I see you praise dealer X & dealer Y when I know I wouldn’t trust them with my mother . You have no idea of all the inner workings of the movie poster business."

As usual with Loce, it's half-truths, evasions, and bluster. I've been talking to some insiders who "know" what's going on in this business, so I'm not as naive as Loce claims. I could file a lawsuit against him anytime with some very credible personal claims, including fraud, defamation, and deceptive trade practices.  Really, though, I've already blown $90,000 on this hobby and need to move on to other life goals, so I just don't want to deal with the hassle and spend any more time on it.  If he pisses me off enough, I will get motivated, will dump a ton of discovery requests on him, and depose him (and his pals) to get to the bottom of it all.  It'll be just another one of the 50 cases I'm currently handling.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2012, 01:29:17 PM by Dread_Pirate_Mel »

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Re: Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread
« Reply #82 on: December 23, 2012, 04:32:46 PM »
Loce says he "only deals in original material that I acquired from legitimate sources" and that he "laughs heartily when I see you praise dealer X & dealer Y when I know I wouldn’t trust them with my mother . You have no idea of all the inner workings of the movie poster business."

Oh yeah, some people cure cancer, other send rockets to the Moon, but the inner workings of the movie poster business...  Wow...  Now that's some incredible knowledge to have.  What a big man that Loce is.

T
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- I wish to thank all APF members for being part of the World's Largest Social Gathering of Movie Poster Collectors
- "Wishing you the best of luck with All Poster Forum and in encouraging others to appreciate the magical art of film posters" - Martin Scorsese (2009)

Offline brude

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Re: Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread
« Reply #83 on: December 24, 2012, 12:30:07 PM »
Oh yeah, some people cure cancer, other send rockets to the Moon, but the inner workings of the movie poster business...  Wow...  Now that's some incredible knowledge to have.  What a big man that Loce is.

T

 laugh1 laugh1 laugh1 laugh1

Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread
« Reply #84 on: December 29, 2012, 12:31:36 PM »
Well Locust is not too happy with me and is playing dirty.  

(1) He says and he and his pals are gonna launch a "mockery" campaign against me with a series of YouTube videos to "give me the publicity I crave so much."

He's very proud of his film producing skills.  You should read all about them here:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=search&case=/data2/circs/2nd/979301.html

And isn't this impressive?

In February 1997, plaintiffs, no longer able to submit programs to TW Syracuse, submitted to TW Rochester a program entitled "A Tribute to Violence." The program contained numerous real-life scenes of violence and brutality, such as a man being devoured by lions, with his family watching helplessly, and a man committing suicide by shooting himself in the mouth. The episode also contained excerpts from graphically violent motion pictures, such as a Kung Fu scene in which a man with no arms fights a man with no legs, and a scene from a film called "The Gore Gore Girls" in which a man approaches a woman from behind, slits her throat, bends her torso over a table, and beats her buttocks with a meat tenderizer until they are covered with blood.

(2) His pals at Ebay sent me a warning threatening to shut down my account if I "warn off" his buyers again.  Too bad Ebay won't investigate Loce's representations about his posters.  He lists one of the following statements in all of his Ebay listings:

"THIS IS AN ORIGINAL THEATRICAL MOVIE POSTER PRINTED BY NATIONAL SCREEN SERVICE"

"THIS IS AN ORIGINAL THEATRICAL ONE SHEET MOVIE POSTER PRINTED BY THE MOVIE STUDIOS "

I know for a fact that some of his modern posters (Black Swan, Inception) are ludicrous digital reprints since I personally possess them and have compared them to double-sided originals.

There's a mountain of evidence proving many of his inserts are bootlegs as well.

(3) He's also been pulling some stunts that I can't tell you about due to legal issues about "republication" of defamatory statements.  

In any event I've drafted up a 17 page lawsuit I'm ready to file against him which will spell out those stunts, which have opened up ALL of his business practices to discovery.

I've offered him one last chance for a truce, so the next move is his....
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 12:53:15 PM by Dread_Pirate_Mel »

Offline Louie D.

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Re: Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread
« Reply #85 on: December 29, 2012, 12:52:49 PM »
"Life Without Shame",  A-W-E-S-O-M-E!!

Offline Silhouette

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Re: Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread
« Reply #86 on: December 29, 2012, 03:55:46 PM »
It's a shame you have called a truce, but obviously you have better things to do than deal with this fool...but we could do with a White Knight!

I've seen his case with Time Warner elsewhere and when I read the contents of his 'shows', well it was sickening. It just a shame eBay can't see past the profit to see the facts.

Well done whatever happens.
David


Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread
« Reply #87 on: December 29, 2012, 04:37:22 PM »
Litigation is a last resort.  Most cases are like the United States Civil War.  Both sides expect the other side to quickly capitulate but the case usually drags on for years and is 100 times more traumatic than expected.  

As a government attorney, I can't represent anyone other the federal government.  I can file personal lawsuits with permission (which I've done in this case).  A private lawyer would have to take over the case to directly represent the newbies Loce has ripped off.

By the way, recently I've revised the Tom Loce pages and stripped them down to more facts and fewer legal accusations:

http://moviepostercollectors.com/Fake-Seller-tloceposters.html

http://moviepostercollectors.com/Fake-Seller-tloceposters-fake-inserts.html

http://moviepostercollectors.com/Fake-Seller-tloceposters-fake-one-sheets.html

If you see any errors or have any suggestions, let me know.

Also, Loce has expressly admitted to me that he intentionally underestimates the number available for sale:

“As far as listing my items 2 or 3 at a time has everything to do with smart business practices and nothing to do with conning people . It is common knowledge to astute business people that when stating a limited amount of availability that a consumer will be quicker to purchase your item . For example I have over 600 original Army of Darkness one sheets in stock . How foolish would it be for me to state that I have 600 available on an Ebay listing .”

He lists a DS version of Army of Darkness for $175 and an SS version for $50.  My bet is that the DS is legit. The SS? Well, a lot of his SS posters are digital reprints, some are legit....

I looked back in my records and I've bought one fake (Black Swan) and four-five originals from Loce back in the day....
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 04:52:40 PM by Dread_Pirate_Mel »

Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread
« Reply #88 on: May 11, 2013, 05:16:19 PM »
All's been quiet on the front for a while but I received this email today.  Another happy customer!

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Scott***************
Date: Sat, May 11, 2013 at 4:49 PM
Subject: Just Found Your Site and Discovered I Have Fakes from Tom Loce
To: administrator(at)moviepostercollectors.com

Hi,

I was doing research about Mondo posters and saw a link for your site. While reading I went to your Hall of Shame and realized that a couple years ago I bought a fake Empire Strikes Back and Raiders of the Lost Ark inserts from Tom Loce on eBay. My Empire had the same NSS number as the fake in the Cinemamasterpiece's article. Needless to say I wasn't thrilled, especially after spending $150 each on framing. They still look great on the wall of my home theater, but... Anyway I'll contact eBay with the info/complaint. There's no hope in getting my money back, and eBay will probably do nothing about it, but I'll be a pain anyway. With the popularity of Mondo on the rise, are people faking a lot of those now too? I thought that might be harder with the more involved printing process, but now I don't know.

Thanks for the the Tom Loce information and take care, Scott


Offline CSM

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Re: Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread
« Reply #89 on: May 11, 2013, 11:16:15 PM »
Ohhh fake Mondos - now there's an angle
Chris

Offline Ari

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Re: Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread
« Reply #90 on: May 12, 2013, 01:16:47 AM »
I have the gear, if you supply the paper ;p
An Error Has Occurred!
You can't report your own post to the moderator, that doesn't make sense!

Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread
« Reply #91 on: February 13, 2014, 05:16:08 PM »
Since we're "snowed in" in DC today, I decided to check out Tom Loce's latest fake posters.  He continues to download the large images of popular posters from MoviePosterDB.com, prints them out, so he "miraculously" has an unlimited supply of single-sided one sheets. No doubt these would show up with the usual blurry credits on heavy luster paper.  Unfortunately, now that Sleazebay hides the identities of buyers AND what was sold, he is completely shielded other than postings on these forums and on the MPC "Fake Sellers" page:

http://moviepostercollectors.com/Fake-Seller-tloceposters-fake-one-sheets.html
























  
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 05:24:51 PM by Dread_Pirate_Mel »

Online 50s

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Re: Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread
« Reply #92 on: February 13, 2014, 05:26:49 PM »
Can MoviePosterDB sell the images? I guess not. Can Benito sell the images in a pdf book, I guess not



Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread
« Reply #93 on: February 13, 2014, 05:36:32 PM »
Can MoviePosterDB sell the images? I guess not. Can Benito sell the images in a pdf book, I guess not


Of course MPDB can't sell images of copyrighted posters under US law.  The copyright owners in theory could sue and win automatic damages of $750 - $150,000 per paid download:

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html

But MPDB is probably running off a foreign server in Europe, so it would depend on the law where the server is:

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/us_attorney_asserts_jurisdiction_in_international_cases_because_of_computer/  

In any event MPDB claims:

- They make very little money overall

- Most visitors download the small images and very few pay to download the HQ images (about five cents per download)

- It's good "publicity" for the studios.

Plus, they are not "deep pockets" so there's no recovery even if you got a judgment against them.

It's too bad the studios are not likely to go after Loce.  Just not worth their time. So he continues to sell worthless reprints to Ebay suckers.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 05:42:25 PM by Dread_Pirate_Mel »

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Re: Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread
« Reply #94 on: February 13, 2014, 05:44:50 PM »
The server is in the UK



Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread
« Reply #95 on: February 13, 2014, 06:07:57 PM »
The server is in the UK


I suggest you read their arguments with MovieGoods here:

http://www.movieposterdb.com/forum/topic/313

In the end, I basically agree that the studios see online postings of their posters as good publicity and would never sue anyway, even if they could get past the numerous possible defenses, including fair use.

Loce is another story of course. He's blatantly selling printed reproductions of their posters without a license.  The studios could and should shut him, just like 20th Century Fox and Disney shut down MovieGoods' repros.

Offline rdavey26

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Re: Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread
« Reply #96 on: February 14, 2014, 03:33:55 AM »
Would be nice if the studios would do that to Loce. Then I wouldn't have to see his auctions all the time on ebay for the shitty repros he sells.

Offline AdamCarterJones

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Re: Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread
« Reply #97 on: February 17, 2014, 11:48:18 AM »
MPDB should be closed down.
End of story.
Best wishes,
Adam

Offline jedgerley

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Re: Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread
« Reply #98 on: February 23, 2014, 10:54:40 AM »
I know of two other ways he can obtain even higher quality images than on IMDB but I dont wish to to make this information public. it doesnt involves scanning either.

Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread
« Reply #99 on: February 23, 2014, 12:30:48 PM »
I know of two other ways he can obtain even higher quality images than on IMDB but I dont wish to to make this information public. it doesnt involves scanning either.

Pretty sure the studios send the HQ digital images to the media (or put them on media-only websites).

But you don't really need and can't use super-size images anyway. The commercial printers I've dealt with only print posters out at 150dpi maximum. Loce's reprints are 150dpi, on heavy luster paper, with blurry text. Anyone on this forum would instantly recognize they are reprints. But his buyers are either too naive or just don't care that they are reprints. And they're all cheap $$.