Author Topic: Blade Runner 27x41 1982 US or International Rolled Reprints?  (Read 64475 times)

Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: Blade Runner 27x41 1982 US or International Rolled Reprints?
« Reply #50 on: March 04, 2012, 05:40:32 PM »
OK, HC ya got me intrigued and motivated to put on my "extreme poster nerd" hat and put together these examples - sans long text explanations.  Let me know if I got them right.  (I couldn't find a Version 1 Rolled):









« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 05:50:19 PM by Dread_Pirate_Mel »

Offline Neo

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Re: Blade Runner 27x41 1982 US or International Rolled Reprints?
« Reply #51 on: March 04, 2012, 06:41:48 PM »
"'extreme poster nerd' hat"    rofl1

Seriously, this thread is a good 'un.  I'm sure I don't speak for myself when I say "we are in the presence of greatness." Good work, fellas.   thumbup  

The twists and turns for all the possibilities on this title are incredible.  The MPGrading fiber tests, are cool, as scientific facts are highly valid, in many cases.  Maybe another option could be to find people who worked for the NSS and/or the studio, who had a part in printing these back in the day.  That way, the info. would be directly from the source.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 07:26:04 PM by NeoLoco »

Dread_Pirate_Mel

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« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 07:51:20 PM by Dread_Pirate_Mel »

Charlie

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Re: Blade Runner 27x41 1982 US or International Rolled Reprints?
« Reply #53 on: March 04, 2012, 07:22:51 PM »
I added an authentication to MPC based on the analysis so far.

Nice Mel!  Guess if I buy one it'll be a Version 1...  Were there any union logos on these?

Offline Zorba

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Re: Blade Runner 27x41 1982 US or International Rolled Reprints?
« Reply #54 on: March 04, 2012, 07:27:29 PM »
Seriously, this thread is a good 'un.  I'm sure I don't speak for myself when I say "we are in the presence of greatness." Good work, fellas.   thumbup  


Agree big time!

Its been both entertaining and educational.

Offline CSM

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Re: Blade Runner 27x41 1982 US or International Rolled Reprints?
« Reply #55 on: March 04, 2012, 08:54:58 PM »
Thanks Mel.  I was going to do something very similar.  I even downloaded the 5 different pics from the HA database but didn't have time to edit them now.

So I think I will go through HA sales results and see if those totals are similar to what Matt found in Bruce's database...
Chris

Offline CSM

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Re: Blade Runner 27x41 1982 US or International Rolled Reprints?
« Reply #56 on: March 04, 2012, 08:56:03 PM »
"Matt, you know as well as I do that just because HA or Bruce sold the rolled copies it does not 100% conclusively mean they weren't bootlegs as well."

The difference with us vs everyone else is that if you ever get good proof we accidentally sold you a bootleg, we take it back at full price and eat the loss ourselves, even if it is YEARS later!

Try this with ANY other seller and see what happens, but keep the phone far from your face because when you tell them you bought it from them years ago because the raucous laughter will deafen you!

Bruce

Of course Bruce.  I was not implying anything to the contrary.

However, can you lend any of your expertise to this discussion on which rolled version is most likely to be legitimate?
Chris

Bruce

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Re: Blade Runner 27x41 1982 US or International Rolled Reprints?
« Reply #57 on: March 04, 2012, 09:07:17 PM »
The problem with any poster that is found in larger numbers is that even if it is 100% authentic, it is still likely to prove far less valuable over time, because as the price goes up, collectors tend to go for the "rare" style.

So if I personally was going for this poster, I would hold out for the NSS version. But that's just me.

Bruce

Offline CSM

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Re: Blade Runner 27x41 1982 US or International Rolled Reprints?
« Reply #58 on: March 04, 2012, 09:10:00 PM »
The problem with any poster that is found in larger numbers is that even if it is 100% authentic, it is still likely to prove far less valuable over time, because as the price goes up, collectors tend to go for the "rare" style.

So if I personally was going for this poster, I would hold out for the NSS version. But that's just me.

Bruce

So that would mean Variation #3?  There are no known examples (yet) of a rolled NSS Variation #1...
Chris

Offline CSM

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Re: Blade Runner 27x41 1982 US or International Rolled Reprints?
« Reply #59 on: March 04, 2012, 09:15:16 PM »
Mel, could you please edit your post to include the International version?  Both folded and rolled (if you can find one).

Chris

Offline archie leach

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Re: Blade Runner 27x41 1982 US or International Rolled Reprints?
« Reply #60 on: March 04, 2012, 09:34:50 PM »
I hear what you are saying Archie, and I don't have any reason to doubt Dan -- even though I don't know him.  However:

1) I don't doubt you took WB posters directly from video stores, I labeled that one as a FACT.  Did you happen to personally take a BR?  Do you remember which variant it was?
2) Is there any confirmation that WB wasn't just using extra stock as opposed to printing extra runs months/years later?  Later studio restrikes are somewhat common (Star Wars, Raiders, etc...), but they are usually identifiable as such. 
3) Even if the studio printed them, they wouldn't have printed all three styles... how could we ever know which was reprinted?  All three of these posters show up as folded in original theater collections...  I don't think the potential that 1 style might have had an extra studio run should invalidate the whole lot, do you?
4) Even if the studio printed them, are they not still original posters?  They were printed by the studio using the original plates, no?  See my Dracula Has Risen From the Grave question below...
5) Finally, I never claimed "if you can't prove it, then it shouldn't be mentioned".  I agree, that would be a ridiculous stance.  However, I do claim, "if you can't prove it, you can't prove it."  Until definitive evidence comes out, these stories can be considered as part of the balance of evidence, but they don't and shouldn't prove or disprove anything by themselves. 

As of right now, the fact that Bruce sold 70+ 1-sheets for this title does seem a bit high, but I wouldn't say the market is flooded with them.  Star Wars, Raiders, BTTF, all have way more sales.  And I don't think you can simply point to the other size posters (30x40, 40x60, etc...) being few and far between as proof of an over printed 1-sheet.  The NSS were the only ones printing these sizes and they were phased out entirely less than 3 years later.  I mean how many 40x60s do you see for Raiders vs. the 1-sheets?  The studios only printed 1-sheets, and you've already mentioned studio posters seem to be more prevalent for most 80s posters, especially rolled ones. 

Once again, nothing seems particularly fishy about this poster -- even if a few extra copies entered the market via video/cable outlets.  Just watch out for bootlegs, which right now are confirmed in the studio style.
1.  I was just providing some background, not arguing the point.  I did not take a BR - my collecting started a bit later, but BR was my first have-to-have (along with the Star Wars Style A)...  I had BR on my radar for over 20 years before I pulled the trigger, mainly because I was waiting for a 30x40 and never felt rush to purchase a one sheet because there were always a ton available on the Bay (far more than Star Wars A, Raiders and other such titles).  
2. That was always my assumption, but Dan's story specifically mentioned that these were additional printing and not excess stock that was sitting around - it's the main reason that I remember Dan's story.

The studio re-strikes are a bit of a different animal than what we are talking about with BR.  Everyone knows about the Star Wars/Raider re-strikes, but I thought that I would mention some less well known examples.  Paramount ran a promo one summer where ticket buyer could order one of 4 titles (The Hunt for Red October was one, Lame Ducks was another - it was shelved and then released much later as Brain Donors and I don't recall the others).
3. Exactly my point, how can we know what was reprinted and what wasn't.  We may very well never know what's what with these posters and the easiest way to not have to worry about it is to avoid it in the first place.
4. That's where definitions and debates come into play.  It's a grey area, much like Mondos, where everyone has their own opinion.
5. Part of the reason that I tend to believe Dan's story is that it helped explain what I was already seeing in the marketplace.  For years on eBay, BR one sheets were far more prevalent than other '80s titles.

BTW, is anyone surprised that we are seeing bootlegs from Asia?

Offline CSM

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Re: Blade Runner 27x41 1982 US or International Rolled Reprints?
« Reply #61 on: March 04, 2012, 09:49:22 PM »
Heritage Sales Results (keep in mind this is less than definitive as HA tends to sell the same poster multiple times):

Total - 41

V1 Folded - 15
V1 Rolled - 0

V2 Folded - 14
V2 Rolled - 3

V3 Folded - 2
V3 Rolled - 2

International Folded - 4
International Rolled - 0

Bruce's/Emovieposter Sales Results (as per Matt):

Total = 75
No Picture/Can't tell version = 18

Of the 57 remaining where we can tell:

Total US Variant 1 = 9
Total US Variant 2 = 21
Total US Variant 3 = 10
Total Int'l = 17

Rolled US Variant 1 = 0
Rolled US Variant 2 = 12
Rolled US Variant 3 = 3
Rolled Int'l = 2
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 09:53:16 PM by CSM »
Chris

Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: Blade Runner 27x41 1982 US or International Rolled Reprints?
« Reply #62 on: March 04, 2012, 09:55:10 PM »
Mel, could you please edit your post to include the International version?  Both folded and rolled (if you can find one).


The internationals definitely have "Printed in USA" in the lower left - checked HA and Emovie.....

« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 09:55:53 PM by Dread_Pirate_Mel »

Offline CSM

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Re: Blade Runner 27x41 1982 US or International Rolled Reprints?
« Reply #63 on: March 04, 2012, 10:16:03 PM »
From what has already been posted, that guy's auctions do sound fishy.  But not all studio posters are fake.  There are plenty of rolled and folded examples having been sold by HA and eMovie.  Again, I do have a fake of this poster... if anyone has a folded studio version from a trusted source, I'd be happy to send mine out to see if we can't find ways to authenticate this particular variant.

Matt - wouldn't it be better to compare your rolled studio bootleg to an authenticated rolled studio vs. a folded example?  Or is the concern that there are no legitimate rolled studio versions?
Chris

Offline CSM

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Re: Blade Runner 27x41 1982 US or International Rolled Reprints?
« Reply #64 on: March 04, 2012, 10:20:11 PM »
The internationals definitely have "Printed in USA" in the lower left - checked HA and Emovie.....



Thanks Mel - can I just suggest that you highlight the fact there is no ratings box as well?
Chris

Offline CSM

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Re: Blade Runner 27x41 1982 US or International Rolled Reprints?
« Reply #65 on: March 04, 2012, 10:30:35 PM »
 cool1

I am very happy about all the work/opinions/information that has been brought together in this thread.

I had searched a great deal to find a comparison of Blade Runner one sheets and it turns out the answer was to have us APFers create our own!

Now we just need to get a more in depth consensus and analysis on which we feel to be legitimate and which bootlegs.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 10:38:09 PM by CSM »
Chris

Offline Harry Caul

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Re: Blade Runner 27x41 1982 US or International Rolled Reprints?
« Reply #66 on: March 04, 2012, 11:21:38 PM »
Matt - wouldn't it be better to compare your rolled studio bootleg to an authenticated rolled studio vs. a folded example?  Or is the concern that there are no legitimate rolled studio versions?

Not sure it would matter either way as they should be identical aside from the folds.  I just figured that it would be easier to find a guaranteed original in a folded state -- ideally from a theater lot purchase so there is no uncertainty.

Offline CSM

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Re: Blade Runner 27x41 1982 US or International Rolled Reprints?
« Reply #67 on: March 04, 2012, 11:29:09 PM »
Not sure it would matter either way as they should be identical aside from the folds. 

Well not necessarily - if your rolled is a bootleg, the colours could be subtly different and/or there could be cropping etc. vs. an original rolled (if they exist).

You are right thatthere is a far better chance of having a confirmed folded original though...
Chris

Charlie

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Re: Blade Runner 27x41 1982 US or International Rolled Reprints?
« Reply #68 on: March 04, 2012, 11:32:05 PM »
Make sure to add the SJP version Mel; it truly is the best one of the four.. Well five counting the SJP.  ;) Didn't he do a top notch job on the photoshop...

« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 11:33:12 PM by Charlie »

Offline CSM

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Re: Blade Runner 27x41 1982 US or International Rolled Reprints?
« Reply #69 on: March 04, 2012, 11:35:08 PM »
Might as well just put a horse's head there Charlie ;)
Chris

Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: Blade Runner 27x41 1982 US or International Rolled Reprints?
« Reply #70 on: March 04, 2012, 11:39:28 PM »
And what about this alleged pre-release poster?




Well I'll answer my own post, now that I'm somewhat better educated on the subject.  This is an international rolled poster.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 11:43:20 PM by Dread_Pirate_Mel »

Offline CSM

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Re: Blade Runner 27x41 1982 US or International Rolled Reprints?
« Reply #71 on: March 04, 2012, 11:40:40 PM »
Mel, do you know what that rolled International sold for?
Chris

Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: Blade Runner 27x41 1982 US or International Rolled Reprints?
« Reply #72 on: March 04, 2012, 11:43:10 PM »
Mel, do you know what that rolled International sold for?

I think it just ended without bids.

Offline Harry Caul

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Re: Blade Runner 27x41 1982 US or International Rolled Reprints?
« Reply #73 on: March 05, 2012, 12:21:34 AM »
5. Part of the reason that I tend to believe Dan's story is that it helped explain what I was already seeing in the marketplace.  For years on eBay, BR one sheets were far more prevalent than other '80s titles.

Hi Archie-
I hope you don't think I'm picking on you just to be a dick.  I really am just trying to get the bottom of this.  As for this last statement... to play devils advocate... would HA and eMovie also be representative of that distribution?  I just checked Raiders sales and counted the following:

Raiders '81 (not including restrikes, R82s or Killians)
66 HA
71 eMovie

Compare that with BR
41 HA
75 eMovie

Again, this proves nothing, but it also seems that BR is no more prevalent than Raiders.  Harrison Ford was HOT, HOT, HOT in '82 having come off Star Wars, ESB, and Raiders.  I'm sure there was every expectation from the Warner that BR would be a huge hit... and they likely would have printed up plenty of posters in preparation for that.  As we all know, that didn't happen and BR bombed at the box office.  It sure seems likely that the extra posters handed out to cable companies and video stores could have just been extra stock.  I'm sure if someone was around back that and saw the studio pulling out stacks and stacks of unused posters that they could have easily assumed they were freshly printed, but that may have not been the case.

That is all admittedly rampant speculation on my part, but based on the numbers of past sales it doesn't appear at first glance that BR posters are available in any significantly greater quantities than Ford's other most comparable film from the same time period.

Offline Harry Caul

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Re: Blade Runner 27x41 1982 US or International Rolled Reprints?
« Reply #74 on: March 05, 2012, 12:22:58 AM »
Well not necessarily - if your rolled is a bootleg, the colours could be subtly different and/or there could be cropping etc. vs. an original rolled (if they exist).

You are right thatthere is a far better chance of having a confirmed folded original though...

I meant a confirmed rolled vs. a confirmed folded -- they should be identical minus the folds.