Author Topic: More Plexi Questions  (Read 21901 times)

Offline bigmike

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More Plexi Questions
« on: October 31, 2011, 09:37:11 AM »
I know I know, I am starting to get annoying with these questions. But FYI, I did order some frames from HPF. But I am still on the hunt to make my own frames.

The reason I ask is because I found a brand name plexi with 60% UV protection at a very fair price. And I know people buy thin Vivak plexi frames and don't know the UV % rating anyways.
So my main question is,
How necessary is UV plexi needed if the frame will not be up in direct sunlight or near heat locations? ( because WE KNOW for a fact even UV frames should not be in direct light either)

When people buy art from those shops, are those UV glass they use? We go to our friends and familys houses, and we never notice picture fading or deterioration.

The only way I can justify buying more HPF frames is if I can pick them up myself (which I can't). Located in the US, those are awsome prices. But coming down to it here, its averaging about $140 per frame to get it here in Canada from them.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2011, 09:39:35 AM by bigmike »

Offline Harry Caul

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Re: More Plexi Questions
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2011, 10:23:56 AM »
If you are still worried with 60% UV protection, you can do what I did and also install UV film on your windows...

http://www.gilafilms.com/en/Energy-Saving-Window-Film.aspx

Its a pain to install, but once its done its done.  And my wife was on board too as it also protects wood furniture, floors, and fabrics from fading. 

Offline bigmike

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Re: More Plexi Questions
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2011, 10:29:30 AM »
Ya, was actually searching the old threads and came across that the other day. It does look good actually.

I am just more concerned that others say its gotta be 98% UV filttered.
But if I keep it out of the sun and heat am I okay with the 65% filtered UV? I mean we buy the other frames that contain Vivak, but which Vivak and which percentage of UV protection is it?
Or do others hype up the 98% so much?When I emailed the brand supplier itself, asking Is there a major difference out of the UV 98 and 65 percent filtered plexi if they are both out of sunlight, I never got a response. Because we both know, that even UV filtered plexi IN sunlight will still fade a poster. So If I keep both out of the sunlight and heated elements/moisture, am I good with the other plexi?

I do actually like the film you have too for the windows, it looks good. (but I am renting here, so I can't do that, maybe for a place of my own).

Forgot to mention, these are 80s and onward posters that I'd like to frame, none older than 1960.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2011, 10:33:31 AM by bigmike »

Offline CJ138

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Re: More Plexi Questions
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2011, 04:38:05 PM »
IMO we are just crazy as collectors.  We pay extra mostly for the piece of mind. The fact of the matter is paper/posters were not created to last forever and will eventually rot and deteriorate.  All you can do is try to avoid direct sunlight of any kind.  I think as far as homes go it is abnormal to have direct sunlight in one specific spot, but leave a hat or shirt in your car and its bleached to hell.  Try not to drive yourself nuts...
Lowering the brow of APF since 2010.

Offline CSM

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Re: More Plexi Questions
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2011, 09:00:35 PM »
Mike, I think you are stressing too much.

Maybe you need to buy some glow-in-the-dark posters? ;)
Chris

Charlie

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Re: More Plexi Questions
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2011, 10:36:07 PM »
Mike, I think you are stressing too much.

Maybe you need to buy some glow-in-the-dark posters? ;)

or velvet paint-by-numbers...

I kind of like Matt's idea.  Then you can just use cheap plexi on all your frames. Get it from the Home Depot or Lowes and actually get away with like $40 1-sheet frames...

Anybody know if there is any harm for using the plexi as backing?

guest8

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Re: More Plexi Questions
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2011, 07:56:49 AM »
The only possible harm in sandwiching a print/poster between plexi (more-so glass, because plexi can breath more) would be humidity and and the possibility of it sticking to the surfaces .. But I have considered something like this and if you used a thin matte around it and possibly even some foam core on the back you could hold the whole thing together with paper clamps .. or screws and anything you could imagine .. Heck at the mondo store they have prints held up on the walls with heavy duty magnets ..

tstatum

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Re: More Plexi Questions
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2011, 01:54:42 PM »
I have a "frame" setup like that in my garage.It's just 2 pieces of plexiglas with a poster in the center.  It's only for my small French and belguims and I change it out frequently. I've yet to notice any damage and I'd be surprised if I ever did.

guest8

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Re: More Plexi Questions
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2011, 03:33:41 PM »
I have a "frame" setup like that in my garage.It's just 2 pieces of plexiglas with a poster in the center.  It's only for my small French and belguims and I change it out frequently. I've yet to notice any damage and I'd be surprised if I ever did.

I think it depends on humidity and/or pressure .. My Dad had that issue with a baseball card he put in a hard plastic case like what we are talking about. it had screws in each of the corners to secure everything .. and one day he went to take it out and it ripped the back from the front of the card because they were stuck to plastic case .. there went some decent rookie card he had hoped to retire on :P

Offline bigmike

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Re: More Plexi Questions
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2011, 08:04:48 PM »
I get some frames in two days from HPF. Atleast the shipping is fast..... but costly.

About the card sticking, isn't that the same thing for a frame? if there is no mat board in between the poster and plexi.

Offline TheAnswerMVP2001

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Re: More Plexi Questions
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2011, 01:35:04 AM »
As you know I went through this process.  In the end I decided not to worry with it, you're ultimately paying more money for something that's probably not necessary.  As someone pointed out already nothing in your house is usually going to be in direct sunlight at all times.  Unless you're hanging a poster in your window facing outside to display to people outside I wouldn't worry over it.  Just don't put your poster opposite a window if it bothers you that much.

Offline bigmike

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Re: More Plexi Questions
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2011, 07:30:54 PM »
Is there a quality to plexiglass?
I understand the extra cost for UV qualities. But if its not in direct sunlight, and you go with standard Plexi is there any different qualities to look for? Does it brown, yellow, or is all plexi the same if you don't go with UV etc.
I am looking at a Non Glare plexi, some UV, but do I have to worry about anything else about it???

For example, I have a couple of reprints in those cheapo frames with cheap plexi or plastic and cardboard backing. NOT in direct sunlight and there seems to be no apparent damage.
However, I will be using archival backing for my original posters, but need to know for sure about the plexi. The OP3 P99 costs A LOT here.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 07:39:25 PM by bigmike »

Offline Neo

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Re: More Plexi Questions
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2011, 08:20:23 PM »
Supposedly all acrylic turns yellow over time.  I have a large sheet that I framed an original Metallica subway poster about 15 years ago, and it's not the highest grade, and there is no yellowing on it, and it has been stored in less than ideal conditions, but it's never been in direct sunlight. 

The OP3 P99 really is some expensive stuff, according to this calculator

Windows have a lot to do with it also.  I've lived in my humble abode for a few years, with the curtains open almost all day, and on the stuff that has no UV protection, there is no fading.  There is no direct sunlight on them, but there is a lot of light with big sliding glass doors and light reflecting off the water, and I assume the UV protective coating on the sliding glass doors helps block most of the damaging effects of UV rays.

My advice: Try to avoid direct sunlight (only open the curtains at times of day when the sun isn't blasting through the windows/don't put stuff in those areas), and don't not worry too much about it.

Offline bigmike

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Re: More Plexi Questions
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2011, 08:23:59 PM »
Then can I go with any acrylic then?

What about polystyrene?

Again, it won't be in direct sunlight anyways.

Offline Neo

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Re: More Plexi Questions
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2011, 08:53:27 PM »
I'm just letting you know how it went with my stuff in my situation.  It could be that the newer posters are, the more UV protective properties are inherent in the material, but there are, of course, a lot of unique factors involved in each dealio.

Polystyrene for framing?  I have no idea.  I'm kinda old school in some ways, so I'd say just go with foamboard, preferably acid free.

If you want the most peace of mind, buy the most expensive stuff and hope it lives up to its claims.  If you want to live on the edge, get what you think is necessary to protect your stuff/makes you feel content, and don't stress over it.  My $0.02.

Offline CSM

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Re: More Plexi Questions
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2011, 09:55:35 PM »
Mike, you've probably read this but Sue has this on her website (hollywoodposterframes)

The most important components of the frame job is what's in front of your piece and what is behind your piece.

Let's begin with what's in front.  First off, glass is a no-no! First of all, it can break, and if that happens, often your item is scratched, torn or ruined. Glass is also a heat conductor and accelerates fading and decay. Glass has one other very negative aspect and that is moisture entrapment. Framers often recommend spacers, but then do not dissuade customers from using glass. Also, even if you use spacers, movie posters are so large that they often touch the glass anyway nearer the center, thus defeating the purpose.

Framers often recommend conservation glass that typically has UV filtering but it is still a heat conductor that accelerates yellowing and brittleing. You can also get moisture entrapment and there is still a possibility of breakage, even with conservation glass, especially with these larger sizes. Glass, of any kind, is extremely heavy for any oversize piece. Conservation glass is also extremely expensive since it is very much a specialty product. When glass breaks it can shatter or just have a clean break in half. Either way, the likelihood is high of moderate to severe damage to your poster. Often times with such a large piece of glass breaking, the top half of the glass will slide behind the bottom half and scrape the face of the poster making it extremely difficult to repair. Thus, plexiglass is the recommended covering for your movie posters and valuable paper.

I have had customers tell me they don't like the look of plexiglass: it scratches, turns yellow¯, gets an opaque film over time¯. This is not high grade plexiglass! Just as some people call all tissues, Kleenex, many people call all plastics, plexiglass, and it is not. There is Lucite, styrene, low grade acrylics and many other forms of plastic sheeting, most of which have no archival qualities and least of all have no UV filtering which is the most important component of plexiglass for movie poster and paper preservation purposes. Plexiglass also does not absorb dirt and grime from the air since typically it has been polished with an antistatic cream before it is installed in the frame. Actually, when polished, plexiglass will repel dirt and dust and very rarely even needs cleaning or repolishing.

Just an added note, if you currently have something framed in your home in plexiglass or any form of plastic, never use any ammonia based cleaner on it as the chemical reaction with the plastic is what causes clouding. One of the other complaints I hear about plexiglass is that it warps and gives the poster a distorted look. Again, this is typical of the lower grades of plastics that are very thin and don't lie flat in the frame. A good piece of plexiglass should be the same thickness as glass, about one eighth of an inch thick.

One other note regarding the differences between glass and plexiglass that definitely is not crucial to the preservation of the poster is that glass has a green tint to it and a good grade of plexiglass is crystal clear. Lower grades of plastics have been made with inferior materials. Remember, the most important element of framing anything you want to preserve, is that it be framed in an acid-free environment. Plexiglass with extremely high levels of UV protection, in my experience, often has a yellow tint to it and this type of plexiglass would be used on extremely valuable items and perhaps items that are hung near high exposure areas. Plexiglass is available in clear and non-glare.

For many years I've had customers who have preferred a non-glare covering for their artwork. While non-glare glass is available there are inherent problems with this product. By nature of its design, when non-glare glass is placed over the artwork, it has a tendency to dissipate color and take the art slightly out of focus, especially if you are using a mat over your artwork. Most importantly however, it is glass, and still has ALL THE NEGATIVE ASPECTS OF GLASS.

A few years back, non-glare plexiglass became available which is as near true-view perfect as you can get, while still maintaining the high quality of UV. I immediately switched all of my posters that hung in highly lit areas to this non-glare plexiglass product and have been thrilled with the look ever since. Whichever type of plexiglass you choose, clear or non-glare, as long as you select high quality material with UV filtering, you will be helping to preserve the integrity of your own collectibles.
Chris

Offline bigmike

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Re: More Plexi Questions
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2011, 07:55:57 AM »
Ya I have read it before.
But I have heard all plexi has some UV attributes, not as much as the 98% UV one though.

I have a decent price on a non glare piece, but don't know if I should get it or not then. If it yellows in 20 years, then whatever, but I don't want it harming the poster with it.

Offline jayn_j

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Re: More Plexi Questions
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2011, 08:56:08 AM »
Ya I have read it before.
But I have heard all plexi has some UV attributes, not as much as the 98% UV one though.

I have a decent price on a non glare piece, but don't know if I should get it or not then. If it yellows in 20 years, then whatever, but I don't want it harming the poster with it.

Here is my tale of two '50s posters and long term mounting.

I have a three sheet that was mounted in 1990 using good 3/16" plexiglass.  I recently changed it out for the first time.  There was no sign of any clouding or yellowing of the plexiglass, nor was there any damage to the poster.

I also recently changed out an insert that had been hanging since 2000.  This was mounted with non-glare glass, and spent most of its time in an interior powder room (no sun exposure).  When I removed the poster, I found that there was a ghost image imprinted on the glass that needed to be cleaned.  That means that the poster had been somewhat damaged over time, although it wasn't immediately apparent.  I ended up replacing the glass with plexi, although part of the reason was that I fumble fingered it during cleaning and broke the glass  :'(

My feeling is that a good plexi is the better solution.  I am not fully sold on the vivek product, especiually in the thin sheets you tend to get, but would have no hesitation in using plexi or Lexan in a thickness of at least 1/8"
-Jay-

Offline bigmike

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Re: More Plexi Questions
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2011, 09:08:57 AM »
That is what I mean, how do you know where quality kicks in?
The plexi I was quoted was non glare 1/8" thick, and half the price of the UV plexi. Less than Half the price of UV non glare, so I want to know if I can use that one or not. I also asked him to send me the data sheet on it, (like thats gonna help me decide though)

« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 09:10:03 AM by bigmike »

Offline jayn_j

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Re: More Plexi Questions
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2011, 09:27:42 AM »
That is what I mean, how do you know where quality kicks in?
The plexi I was quoted was non glare 1/8" thick, and half the price of the UV plexi. Less than Half the price of UV non glare, so I want to know if I can use that one or not. I also asked him to send me the data sheet on it, (like thats gonna help me decide though)

It kind of comes down to where you plan to hang it, and whether you are committed to keeping it in that location.  If you are putting it in a home theater, an interior bathroom, or some other place with no windows, there is likely no need for UV.  If you are putting it in a room with indirect natural lighting, such as a north facing window, the UV plexi will help a lot.  If you are putting it in front of a south facing window, better mount a cheap poster because it will be toast in a couple of years.  The UV plexi will slow it down a bit, but it will still fade quickly.

I never hang posters in any location that gets direct sunlight.  Of course it helps that my house is surrounded by mature trees.
-Jay-

Offline bigmike

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Re: More Plexi Questions
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2011, 09:42:40 AM »
The posters may be up in the bedroom etc, there is a window, but won't be placed in front of it.
I will also get the UV film for the windows someday.

But question is, could that plexi harm the poster itself? It's 1/8" Non glare standard plexi. Or are we all going overboard over the situation. I see pictures and prints at family and friends places, and there picture/prints are fine, and are probably not even UV glass/plexi in them.

#2) I also saw on this forum before, I think it was a James Bond faded poster. was that because he had it in direct sunlight though??
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 09:44:58 AM by bigmike »

Offline jayn_j

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Re: More Plexi Questions
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2011, 10:53:11 AM »
You have asked this several times, and it has been answered each time.

How much fading are you willing to tolerate?  The only unfaded poster is one that has been stored flat and dark and never taken out to view it.  And under those circumstances, what's the point?

Posters are meant to be displayed and enjoyed.  Yes, they will all fade over time, but with a little care the fading will be minimal.  I am going to summarize one more time.  It is up to you to decide what you can tolerate.

1.  ALL light contains a UV component.  Sunlight is the worst, but heavy flourescent is also high in UV.
2.  UV will cause fading
3.  Heat will cause fading and make paper brittle.
4.  Even indirect reflected sunlight will damage over time, but at a rate MUCH lower.
5.  UV filtered glazing will slow, but not stop fading.  Instead of killing a poster in 3-6 months, it may take a couple of years.
6.  Plexi is lighter, less prone to breaking and doesn't conduct heat.  It can be UV blocking as well (but see #5).  I will never use glass again.
7.  Best solution is to display in an area without a lot of natural light and where room lighting is indirect.  Posters will show minimal fading in decades this way.
-Jay-

Offline bigmike

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Re: More Plexi Questions
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2011, 10:58:00 AM »
No I don't mean the fading. I mean is there any attributes within the plexi itself that can harm the poster. For example someone said NOT to use Lexan because it will harm the poster because it contains a cancer causing element, I forgot what it was though.
Even if you go to spotlight displays. It says on there even if its not in direct sunlight, "not to keep a poster in a frame for a long period of time". Why is that though???

I do need the posters in the frames for a long time. Like you said as well. There is no point in storing them if you can't view and enjoy them regularly.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 10:59:30 AM by bigmike »

Offline stewart boyle

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Re: More Plexi Questions
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2011, 11:19:46 AM »

Even if you go to spotlight displays. It says on there even if its not in direct sunlight, "not to keep a poster in a frame for a long period of time". Why is that though???

I would suppose that Spotlight Displays are basically saying,there is nothing wrong with framing your poster,but it is not a recommended conservation method.To keep your poster in its best condition there are a lot more factors you have to consider..humidity etc..

Stew
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 11:21:28 AM by stewart boyle »

Offline Neo

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Re: More Plexi Questions
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2014, 04:40:23 PM »

But I have heard all plexi has some UV attributes, not as much as the 98% UV one though.


To add to this, I think it is disingenuous for people to claim that "all plexi has some UV attributes."  Only Plexiglass or acrylic that is specifically designed to be protective from ultraviolet light, and is described with the scientifically calculated percentage of UV transmission, is true "UV filtering" material.  Personally, I'd rather pay a little more for the high percentage UV filtering acrylic and have the peace of mind, as I think fading is one of the worst kinds of damage.