Author Topic: Berwick Discovery: The Biggest find of early movie posters in recent history  (Read 288354 times)

Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #225 on: February 05, 2012, 08:22:48 PM »
Kerry, I can tell you from personal experience that once washed, the colors of a poster burst forth from the paper. A claim such as  "The Little Caesar poster, as presented, now looks better than it probably did when first printed" cannot be proven in any possible way. Also, the paper itself whitens in the cleaning process, brightening the colors further

Don't forget that these posters were essentially "preserved" away from light as each successive poster was applied to the board and so the original saturation levels of the dyes in the ink most probably retained their original pigmentation within the layers and so once washed and brought forth from the dirty layers above show their original brilliance. I also don't think it's necessary for Heritage to comment (if they commented to every sewing circle with a criticism it would reduce their time to do the important work of selling posters), but rather for those who are critical to actually go forth to examine the posters themselves as they are the ones that are curious. Then you can actually say "I visited the poster and this is what I noted......." as opposed to putting forth conjecture as fact.

that said, it is obvious these posters all have some degree of restoration. Part of the restoration process is restoring the colors    and certain dyes reflect light differently in photography, appearing brighter. This could yet be another factor in how you see the color.

one more issue: color calibration

Harry noted that a photographer uses a color bar to match pure white under white so as to get the most natural colors. However, the photographer also calibrates his computer monitor to make sure that he sees is as close as possible to what the camera sees. I want to know how many (if any at all) members on this forum have ever calibrated their monitors to this degree?? No need to answer.. it's probably less than 1%

oh and one more thing. Heritage is a corporate entity with may departments under autonomous control on different floors of a huge building. The photographers are not under movie poster control - they are under photography department control. They have certain learnings that have nothing to do with the interests of collectors wanting to see each nook and cranny of wear in a poster. The photographer's job is to make the item being sold look as good as possible with the realm of looking correct. His visual interests are not the same as your visual interests. There is nothing nefarious about it. The photographer is doing the job they were taught to do.

Understanding these facts in concert with each other is the only way you can even make educated guesses about why the images look as they do
« Last Edit: February 05, 2012, 08:23:46 PM by MoviePosterBid.com »

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Bruce

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #226 on: February 05, 2012, 10:47:00 PM »
There you have the answer to how best to store your collection. Just glue all your posters on top of each other in one large stack. Not only does this preserve them perfectly, but the colors will improve over the years.

Bruce

Offline CSM

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #227 on: February 05, 2012, 10:59:01 PM »
There you have the answer to how best to store your collection. Just glue all your posters on top of each other in one large stack. Not only does this preserve them perfectly, but the colors will improve over the years.

Bruce

Just magical!
Chris

Offline Zorba

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #228 on: February 05, 2012, 11:01:16 PM »
There you have the answer to how best to store your collection. Just glue all your posters on top of each other in one large stack. Not only does this preserve them perfectly, but the colors will improve over the years.

Bruce

Just magical!

 laugh1

Offline CSM

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #229 on: February 05, 2012, 11:04:12 PM »
Sean, are there any numbers out there for how many of the Dracula, Style H one sheet, still exist?




Erik - isn't this from the '38 re-release?
Chris

Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #230 on: February 05, 2012, 11:29:31 PM »
There you have the answer to how best to store your collection. Just glue all your posters on top of each other in one large stack. Not only does this preserve them perfectly, but the colors will improve over the years.

Bruce

I've been working on this for half my life.. I'm just not sure that I've been using the right glue
I guess I'll find out in 53 more years
« Last Edit: February 05, 2012, 11:30:39 PM by MoviePosterBid.com »

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Offline Harry Caul

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #231 on: February 05, 2012, 11:32:02 PM »
Erik - isn't this from the '38 re-release?

That is what Heritage sold it as... and I believe that is the only known copy.

Offline crowzilla

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #232 on: February 06, 2012, 05:30:07 AM »
That is what Heritage sold it as... and I believe that is the only known copy.

That is indeed the 38 one-sheet. (there is no 1931 style H, in the pressbook style H refers to the window card that looks similar to the 6-sheet)

What is really interesting (to me at least) is that just over 20 years ago there was just one Dracula 1931 one-sheet known (the style B belonging to Ron Borst). Then in the early 90s a style A was found which was privately sold, and another style B which was sold through Morrie Everett's Hollywood Poster Auction. A few more years went buy and 3 copies of the style F all turned up at the same time (with Bruce getting one and the other two being sold privately to collectors - I believe Bruce saw the ad for the 3 of them first). Then the style C turned up and all was quiet for 10 years or so (the copy Heritage sold previously is the same copy Bruce sold over a decade ago) and now another style F is found.
The only known 1938 one-sheet turned up in 2003 (along with previously unknown copies of one-sheets for the first three Frankenstein films).

There are now more original one-sheets available than at any time in the 60s, 70s, or 80s (I guess technically the second style B which was sold in 93 was available in the 70s as the owner of it told me at the auction he had bought it at a flea market for $1 in the early 70s and never knew it was worth anything until news of the style A being discovered made headlines in collecting circles). The style F, which was not even known to exist 15 years ago is now the most common style.

Makes you wonder what the next find will contain...
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Offline Harry Caul

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #233 on: February 06, 2012, 08:51:32 AM »
Makes you wonder what the next find will contain...

I'll make sure y'all here at APF are the first to know  ;)



Great write-up Sean!

Offline CSM

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #234 on: February 06, 2012, 09:08:08 AM »
I'll make sure y'all here at APF are the first to know  ;)


 :D
Chris

Offline Zorba

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #235 on: February 06, 2012, 10:04:18 AM »
I'll make sure y'all here at APF are the first to know  ;)


 :)

Many are counting on you.

Offline brude

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #236 on: February 06, 2012, 05:28:59 PM »
That is indeed the 38 one-sheet. (there is no 1931 style H, in the pressbook style H refers to the window card that looks similar to the 6-sheet)

What is really interesting (to me at least) is that just over 20 years ago there was just one Dracula 1931 one-sheet known (the style B belonging to Ron Borst). Then in the early 90s a style A was found which was privately sold, and another style B which was sold through Morrie Everett's Hollywood Poster Auction. A few more years went buy and 3 copies of the style F all turned up at the same time (with Bruce getting one and the other two being sold privately to collectors - I believe Bruce saw the ad for the 3 of them first). Then the style C turned up and all was quiet for 10 years or so (the copy Heritage sold previously is the same copy Bruce sold over a decade ago) and now another style F is found.
The only known 1938 one-sheet turned up in 2003 (along with previously unknown copies of one-sheets for the first three Frankenstein films).

There are now more original one-sheets available than at any time in the 60s, 70s, or 80s (I guess technically the second style B which was sold in 93 was available in the 70s as the owner of it told me at the auction he had bought it at a flea market for $1 in the early 70s and never knew it was worth anything until news of the style A being discovered made headlines in collecting circles). The style F, which was not even known to exist 15 years ago is now the most common style.

Makes you wonder what the next find will contain...


I really savor these kind of poster history details.
Thanks, Sean.
 cheers

Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #237 on: February 06, 2012, 07:10:18 PM »
I don't need to post examples - the photos speak for themselves to most

But I will play the game:

Original Heritage Photo




Chris, your picture is the problem here.  The light levels in your picture are WAY off, as shown in my screenshots below.  

It is absolutely appropriate to adjust the light levels and does not "distort" the photo in any way.  I ALWAYS correct the light levels of my photos using the ENHANCE: ADJUST LIGHTING: LEVELS command.  

When your photo is light corrected, I do not see any material differences between the Heritage original and your picture.

Your picture showing the uncorrected light levels:



Your picture with light levels corrected:



A screenshot of the Help explanation of light levels:

« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 07:40:40 PM by Dread_Pirate_Mel »

Offline Harry Caul

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #238 on: February 06, 2012, 07:49:58 PM »
Mel, the problem with your analysis is that after you enhance light levels you can still see yellowing of the paper in Chris' photo.  There are clear differences between the more white areas (like the upper center and the to the left of the bottom of the 'B' in Bogart) and the yellowed paper -- I'm guessing those are probably restoration areas.

HA's photo shows none of that nuance on my monitor, or if it does it is extremely faint.

Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #239 on: February 06, 2012, 08:11:17 PM »
Ok, here's the deal.  

The original with description is here:



Large size (1000 pixels) Heritage original photo (as posted online with no changes):



The below picture shows how the picture could have been "distorted" but was not: (1) color cast removed (this changes the acid-tanning to pure white) and (2) colors saturated 10%.  



And in the end, if Chris felt so ripped off, why didn't he just return it?

Finally, that's a hell of a poster - it's way better than the much-more-expensive US version!
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 08:21:08 PM by Dread_Pirate_Mel »

Offline CSM

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #240 on: February 06, 2012, 08:38:17 PM »
Mel - believe me, I have NEVER felt ripped off about this poster (and to be clear I didn't even buy it from Heritage but I knew that's where it came from).  You are right that the colours are much better than the US one sheet.

I think Matt is completely right about the slight yellowing - Heritage's photo is clearly whitewashed.  But the main difference is the enhanced colour of Bacall's hair (which should be readily noticeable to all).

Again - in no way unhappy with the poster (it is displayed prominently right in front of my computer as I type).  Just using it is illustrate the point that I (and others) are trying to make...
Chris

Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #241 on: February 08, 2012, 07:53:56 PM »
So it turns out all the Heritage trash-talking was nonsense.  "The colors on the poster are as vibrant as the day it was printed and have not been altered at all."


Offline 110x75

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #242 on: February 08, 2012, 09:30:29 PM »
So it turns out all the Heritage trash-talking was nonsense.  "The colors on the poster are as vibrant as the day it was printed and have not been altered at all."

Well Mel, it's more personal opinions than "trash-talk". Some great info on the effects of restoration, white balance, lightning, etc... was given in this thread - and is very appreciated- by yourself, Matt, Rich and the others.
Even with this info, my uncalibrated monitor and my color blindness (:D) I still think Heritage's images are way too boosted... I guess I'll clear my doubts when I purchase a poster from them and can be able to look at it personally...

Matias
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Offline CSM

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #243 on: February 08, 2012, 09:53:12 PM »
Well Mel, it's more personal opinions than "trash-talk". Some great info on the effects of restoration, white balance, lightning, etc... was given in this thread - and is very appreciated- by yourself, Matt, Rich and the others.
Even with this info, my uncalibrated monitor and my color blindness (:D) I still think Heritage's images are way too boosted... I guess I'll clear my doubts when I purchase a poster from them and can be able to look at it personally...



Agree Matias - just because Heritage says the actual poster has not been touched (airbrushed etc) doesn't mean the photo is a realistic representation of what the poster looks like in reality.

And this is not just the Dracula poster of course...
Chris

Offline brude

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #244 on: February 08, 2012, 09:57:21 PM »
Boosted colors or not, I'd chug a bucket of shark chum for that DRACULA poster.
Mmmmm....mmmmmm...

Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #245 on: February 08, 2012, 10:10:28 PM »
Boosted colors or not, I'd chug a bucket of shark chum for that DRACULA poster.
Mmmmm....mmmmmm...

Shark chum... yummmm


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Offline Harry Caul

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #246 on: February 08, 2012, 10:13:11 PM »
Every time this thread pops up on the "unread since your last visit" list I get sick to my stomach. 

The shark chum is not helping...

Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #247 on: February 08, 2012, 10:25:04 PM »
chum is deligious.. just ask any shark

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Offline brude

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #248 on: February 08, 2012, 10:26:39 PM »
chum is deligious.. just ask any shark


Heck yeah...if you look close enough there's noodles and marshmallows....
Small price to pay for DRAC, eh?

Offline Harry Caul

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #249 on: February 08, 2012, 10:40:57 PM »
Been there done that...  that is our chum bucket.  The fish head was tied to the float next to it.  It was like bobber-fishing only for great whites with a thick rope and 20 lb. piece of bait!