Author Topic: Berwick Discovery: The Biggest find of early movie posters in recent history  (Read 285886 times)

Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #200 on: February 03, 2012, 11:53:54 PM »
So it's up!  Heritage just posted a pic of the new Dracula Style F.  No condition info posted.  Here's the new one (left) vs. the one sold previously (right).  Appears to be more colorful - restoration effect or what?

i thought they would put it out for March.......!
wynk

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Offline Louie D.

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #201 on: February 03, 2012, 11:56:12 PM »
STILL no Fox.

Offline 110x75

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #202 on: February 04, 2012, 12:20:32 AM »
Appears to be more colorful - restoration effect or what?

I think it's called Photoshop...  :D
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Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #203 on: February 04, 2012, 08:33:30 AM »
I think it's called Photoshop...  :D

Of course it's not Photoshop.  Heritage is not going to sell a $300,000+ poster using a blatantly photoshopped picture. Some people say Heritage "enhances" its photos and "overgrades" its posters for sale but somehow they can't be bothered to offer any proof.   I've bought over 100 posters from Heritage and they all showed up looking exactly like they did online and more or less properly graded. 

Offline brude

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #204 on: February 04, 2012, 11:06:06 AM »
Cool poster.
Didn't someone earlier mention that the colors on all of these posters appear to be 'over saturated?'

Online paul waines

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #205 on: February 04, 2012, 12:22:19 PM »
On the posters I have from the 30's the colours look more like the one on the left. They are very vibrant, as was the way in those days. The poster on the right has faded slightly over the years, looking at it. 
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Offline 110x75

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #206 on: February 04, 2012, 02:36:17 PM »
Of course it's not Photoshop.  Heritage is not going to sell a $300,000+ poster using a blatantly photoshopped picture. Some people say Heritage "enhances" its photos and "overgrades" its posters for sale but somehow they can't be bothered to offer any proof.   I've bought over 100 posters from Heritage and they all showed up looking exactly like they did online and more or less properly graded. 

Mel, I'm aware that a multi-million dollar auction house like Heritage is not going to sell a Dracula using a blatantly photoshopped pic like if they were a shady ebay seller. I do think their photos are overly "enhanced". Posters from the 30s and 40s with bright and vibrant colors exist, and those colors can even be improved with proper restoration, but not to the point of making them look like they were printed in day-glo ink...   
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Offline CSM

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #207 on: February 04, 2012, 03:41:05 PM »
i thought they would put it out for March.......!
wynk

Guess I was wrong!
Chris

Offline CSM

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #208 on: February 04, 2012, 03:42:27 PM »
Of course it's not Photoshop.  Heritage is not going to sell a $300,000+ poster using a blatantly photoshopped picture. Some people say Heritage "enhances" its photos and "overgrades" its posters for sale but somehow they can't be bothered to offer any proof.   I've bought over 100 posters from Heritage and they all showed up looking exactly like they did online and more or less properly graded. 

Are you kidding me Mel? - anyone looking at that Dracula poster can tell those ARE NOT the actual colours!  Almost all Heritage photos are way oversaturated to enhance their "browsing/eye-catching appeal"
Chris

Offline 50s

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #209 on: February 05, 2012, 09:11:54 AM »
Of course it's not Photoshop.  Heritage is not going to sell a $300,000+ poster using a blatantly photoshopped picture. Some people say Heritage "enhances" its photos and "overgrades" its posters for sale but somehow they can't be bothered to offer any proof.   I've bought over 100 posters from Heritage and they all showed up looking exactly like they did online and more or less properly graded. 

I bought a 6sht for $4k from them, stated condition as NM. My restorer looked at it and saw a hand sized area completely in painted.


Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #210 on: February 05, 2012, 12:28:28 PM »
Are you kidding me Mel? - anyone looking at that Dracula poster can tell those ARE NOT the actual colours!  Almost all Heritage photos are way oversaturated to enhance their "browsing/eye-catching appeal"

Show, don't tell, Chris.  Post a picture of a poster purchased from Heritage and then post a picture of the actual poster when it arrived.  Since "almost all Heritage photos are way oversaturated" - according to you - I'm sure you'll have no problem proving it.


Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #211 on: February 05, 2012, 12:40:57 PM »
By the way, here's the original Heritage picture of my Undead poster.  The picture was not Photoshopped, saturated, etc. in any way.  



The Heritage picture EXACTLY matched what showed up:



This next picture is a Photoshopped version of the original Heritage picture - color cast removed, light levels adjusted, saturation turned up:





« Last Edit: February 05, 2012, 12:44:09 PM by Dread_Pirate_Mel »

Online Neo

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #212 on: February 05, 2012, 01:19:01 PM »
I've seen two videos where two different linen backers mentioned that restoring does makes the colors, in their words, more "vibrant."  All of the stuff I've had linen backed had brighter, better looking (IMO) colors after being restored/backed. 

The two Dracula one sheets pictured may look different due to lighting and restoration.  The one on the right looks like it was in a much brighter/different light, and it may also have a lower resolution (especially since its an older picture), all of which would cause the colors to be lighter.  The apparent "better" lighting combined with the restoration on the one on the left could explain why it looks a lot "better."

Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #213 on: February 05, 2012, 01:27:49 PM »
It's possible they're using a stock photo but I doubt it because it's watermarked.

My bet is that overall the poster was substantially restored and the restorer repainted the entire red portion of the lettering to give it color consistency. 

However, the charge that Heritage systematically enhances/saturates/distorts its images is totally unfounded.

Offline CSM

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #214 on: February 05, 2012, 01:33:53 PM »
Show, don't tell, Chris.  Post a picture of a poster purchased from Heritage and then post a picture of the actual poster when it arrived.  Since "almost all Heritage photos are way oversaturated" - according to you - I'm sure you'll have no problem proving it.



I don't need to post examples - the photos speak for themselves to most

But I will play the game:

Original Heritage Photo



The same poster in reality



So what happened to the reds, the blues and Bacall's hair?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2012, 01:42:09 PM by CSM »
Chris

Online paul waines

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #215 on: February 05, 2012, 01:42:50 PM »
That is most definitely the type of lighting used....
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Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #216 on: February 05, 2012, 02:13:21 PM »
That is most definitely the type of lighting used....

and the type of camera

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Offline CSM

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #217 on: February 05, 2012, 02:15:43 PM »
and the type of camera

And the colours being enhanced ;)

Just to be clear Mel - I am not talking about disguising restoration etc just the colours being overly saturated and unrealistic. 
Chris

Offline Harry Caul

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #218 on: February 05, 2012, 02:43:00 PM »
A lot of the color correction happens when you change the white balance.  From Chris's pic, you can clearly see that the paper has yellowed.  Whether or not it is as bad as his camera/lighting shows I'm sure is up for debate.  However, you can also tell plain as day that Heritage adjusted the white balance using the background as 'white'.  Their pic doesn't show any yellow-ing what so ever.  'Correcting' the WB removes the yellow-ish color cast from the whole poster, including the rest of the colors -- and hence makes them a bit more vibrant and seemingly more saturated, even if they didn't actually bump up saturation.

To do it properly you need a true white card that you photograph in the same frame as the poster, then correct WB in post using that known quantity.  Some places actually do a full color profile (MPGrading) using a color charts at the side of the poster.  However, that seems complicated so I'm not going to bother when I get my photo setup back up and running.  Properly adjusting WB I've found is a must though...

Offline erik1925

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #219 on: February 05, 2012, 04:12:36 PM »
By the way, here's the original Heritage picture of my Undead poster.  The picture was not Photoshopped, saturated, etc. in any way.  

This next picture is a Photoshopped version of the original Heritage picture - color cast removed, light levels adjusted, saturation turned up:




I took the above "boosted" image which still looked cloudy and a bit washed out, IMO, and played with it a bit more  ;D:






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Offline erik1925

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #220 on: February 05, 2012, 04:24:28 PM »
And the previously sold DRAC, also given some added "boostage":


   



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Offline erik1925

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #221 on: February 05, 2012, 06:28:58 PM »
The most common style Dracula one-sheet just got it's known population upped by 33%.


Sean, are there any numbers out there for how many of the Dracula, Style H one sheet, still exist?




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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #222 on: February 05, 2012, 07:19:32 PM »
 

Looks impressive, but the original image, post-find, looks very muted and a bit faded. Compared to the boosted image that Heritage now offers online, would one say that the true color and vibrancy of this poster lies somewhere in between the 2 images? Cleaning and backing alone would not, for example, make the faded yellows of the title pop like they do in the post-restoration image.

 clap thumbup


As far as poster images being over-saturated and the colors boosted, here is a comparative I presented in mid-January. The poster, when found, appeared faded and dull. The yellows of the title alone were very washed out. (camera and lighting considered). Now, unless, during restoration, the entire poster was heavily inpainted, and touched up to make it pop, then the only other explanation is added saturation to the image, after it was backed and restored.

If it was done for Little Caesar, it most certainly could have been done to the Dracula image, too.




Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #223 on: February 05, 2012, 07:35:57 PM »
Now, unless, during restoration, the entire poster was heavily inpainted, and touched up to make it pop, then the only other explanation is added saturation to the image, after it was backed and restored.

this is  incorrect.. It is only one possibility. Other possibilities are that once washed, the dirt on the surface is lifted & the true colors below are released, or the type of light being used (tungsten, neon, incandescent etc) in photogrpahy favor color saturation at different levels, the CMOS element in the high definition camera being used is more sensitive to true colors etc etc etc. There are many reasons that the colors could be brilliant with the one about being cleaned removing a haze from the image being the most obvious.

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Der Januskopf

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Re: The biggest find of early movie posters in recent history was sold today...
« Reply #224 on: February 05, 2012, 07:57:01 PM »
this is  incorrect.. It is only one possibility. Other possibilities are that once washed, the dirt on the surface is lifted & the true colors below are released, or the type of light being used (tungsten, neon, incandescent etc) in photogrpahy favor color saturation at different levels, the CMOS element in the high definition camera being used is more sensitive to true colors etc etc etc. There are many reasons that the colors could be brilliant with the one about being cleaned removing a haze from the image being the most obvious.

True. I should not have used the phrase "the only other explanation" as other factors can come into play. I do realize that the "find" photo is not lit properly, is shot at and angle and that the imagery is less than stellar. However, what can also be seen are watermarks and some light staining throughout the poster and on much of the title (and yes, washing can do wonders in this area). And while various types of light sources can accentuate or detract from a color's brilliance, it is still apparently evident, that the overall poster was more faded, when first uncovered.

All the factors being considered and those you mentioned, Rich, I still do believe that the finished image was boosted (as have been done to the other in varying degrees). The Little Caesar poster, as presented, now looks better than it probably did when first printed. Only Heritage can absolutely verify or quash this, however. Not one member here knows for certain. And up to this point, Heritage has not replied to these thread observations.