Author Topic: We were just notified of a Belgian My Fair Lady re-release we did not know of!  (Read 1136 times)

Bruce

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One of the members of this forum just notified us of a Belgian My Fair Lady re-release we did not know of. We have previously sold three versions of the poster, and one was clearly a 1970s re-release, but the other two looked to both be from 1964.

But the member (who can reveal himself if he wishes) pointed out good evidence that one of those was a re-release.

We did further research, and discovered that it is almost certainly from 1969, which makes sense, since the movie got a major U.S. re-release that year. The other poster is the 1964 original.

We will now do what we ALWAYS do in this situation:
1) Since one of them closed last night, we will immediately email the high bidder and offer to cancel (explaining why, of course). If he does cancel, we will re-list it (properly identified) the next time we do that size/type.
2) We checked, and we sold SIX others where they were incorrectly identified. We will email those six buyers, and offer to cancel them, and we will pay return shipping (and the original shipping, if it was bought by itself).\
3) We will delete last night's result if the person cancels, and delete any of the other old six results if they cancel. The ones that are left, if any, will be properly noted that they are re-releases.
4) We will make a huge note in our database, telling how to tell the difference, so when we get another Belgian My Fair Lady, we will know if it is from 1964, a 1969 re-release, or a 1970s re-release.

Does all this take a lot of time? Yes. Will I likely lose between $100 and $300? Yes.

But it is the right thing to do, and that is all that matters.

And thanks ago to the forum member who pointed this out!
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 11:57:40 AM by Bruce »

Charlie

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Does all this take a lot of time? Yes. Will I likely lose between $100 and $300? Yes.

Just don't put it on my bill!  :P  Yeah I wish I had seen it last week and sent you something then...  I like to look over the auction result the following morning and I just thought it odd that there was no white (what I call hinge) area at the top like the one I have. So I started poking around this morning...

What I will say, from some of these e-mails I send to Bruce and what-nots on the forum, I am a firm believer that when there is solid evidence Bruce will absolutely call it.  I asked him to just investigate this case for me and this was the response I got within 2 hours:

Charlie,

 Great catch! The poster with the white space at top has Maurice Pannels printer info that dates from around '51 to '64. So it is certainly the first release poster. The printer on the newer posters (that we have mistakenly sold as first release) is from around '67 - '70. Since there was a big re-release of the film in 1969, these posters are most likely from a 1969 re-release.

 It looks like we have sold the R69 poster six times (not including the latest) in the past as a first release poster. We will be updating our Auction History and contacting the past buyers about this mistake. Obviously, we'll also be contacting the buyer of the 02/25/14 poster as well.

 Thank you very much for bringing this to our attention! Please feel free to email us anytime that you suspect a mistake or have additional info.


So this is my copy I restored.  Notice the white 'hinge' at the top and the key is the printer's information on the right just above the black.  It has "Maurice Pannels"...



The 69' RR which Bruce has already changed on his sight has no white 'hinge' area and has "IMPR LICHTERT Bruxelles 7" on the right.



The 70' RR is easy. It has "Excelsior" at the top, same printer's info as the 69'...



I thought it very important to get it straight since it's 1. Audrey, 2. My Fair Lady, and 3. Bob Peak...

I am just really satisfied that the one I picked up is first release...

Thanks for looking into it Bruce!
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 02:29:43 PM by Charlie »

Offline CSM

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If only Casablanca were so clear eh?
Chris

Bruce

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If only Casablanca were so clear eh?

I called the buyer, starting explaining everything to him, but he already knew it all. He also knows that the mapbacked ones have bleedthrough in the faces, and he wants this on his wall, and he is happy and it is being sent to him today!

lynbabs

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Hope you don't mind me asking a question on this thread  - don't mean to hijack it, just let me know if I should ask elsewhere, but am interested in this Belgian printer 'Lichtert'.

Some of my Belgian posters have:

'IMPR LICHTERT Bruxelles 7' on the bottom right, like Bruce's My Fair Lady re-release.

Others have 'IMPR LICHTERT Bruxelles 1070', which I'm assuming is a later printing due to the more modern postcode.

Does anyone know which year the Brussels printer changed their postcode, as this would help to date the posters?

Many thanks,

Lyn
« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 03:24:12 PM by lynbabs »

Offline erik1925

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Lyn,

What titles do you have that show the later postal code?

Jeff



-Jeff

Offline Silhouette

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You will find that the four digit postcodes were introduced to Belgium in 1969.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 04:13:13 PM by Silhouette »
David


lynbabs

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Ah, thank you so much for the info. Much appreciated.

I have a Chinatown (two copies actually), which has 'Impr. Lichtert - 1070 Bruxelles' at bottom right and Cinema International Corporation at bottom left. Always wondered whether these were re-issues.

Once Upon a Time in the West: 'Impr. Lichtert 1070 Bruxelles' at bottom right and 'Editeur Responsable: C.I.C' at bottom left.

Lawrence of Arabia has 'Impr. J. Lichtert & Fils - Bruxelles 7'  on the right,  and 'Editeur Responsable: Warner-Columbia S.N.C.' on the left.

Barbarella has 'Impr. Lichtert - Bruxelles 7' bottom right,  and nothing at all bottom left.


Offline Silhouette

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I understand it is common (or even standard?) that the four digit postcode precedes the city/town. No idea about pre-'69 however - but it looks like you have the answer in yours.
David


lynbabs

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Thank you, David - does anyone happen to know whether the posters I mentioned earlier are all original?

I had a look at the emovieposter past auction prices for Once Upon a Time in the West and am confused because the poster I have shows up once as a first issue 1968 and also as an R70s.

If anyone can enlighten me I'd be forever grateful.

Offline erik1925

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Lyn,

Does your copy of ONCE UPON A TIME, have the Cinema International Corp on the upper left imprint area? If so, I would wager this to be a later RR, as emovie also has one without this wording, & simply showing the Paramount logo in the lower right corner.

(But i see, too, why you are asking, as one each of that style is described on emovie as both a first release and later 70s RR).  ;)

« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 01:42:50 PM by erik1925 »


-Jeff

lynbabs

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Hi - yes it does have the imprint top left in the white area.

Belgian posters are so difficult to date, they are a real challenge.

Offline erik1925

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Lyn,

The Belgian posters with the "Cinema International Corp" printed at the top are the later 1970's RR.

I also just looked, and the emovie data on this one has also been updated.

 :)

Jeff







« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 04:44:14 PM by erik1925 »


-Jeff

Offline Silhouette

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I think a quick and easy guide (specially for this period 60s/70s) for Belgium posters will certainly be the printer/publishers postcode if so marked on the poster, there can be no arguments with officialdom!

As I have said - Belgium postcode moved to 4 digits in 1969 (although I would have to research to find the exact date, but assume 1st Jan 1969).
David


lynbabs

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That's great  to know, it always bugs me when I can't properly date a poster. You people on here certainly have an impressive wealth of knowledge.

Looking at the sold Lawrence of Arabia posters on emovie, I notice that there are also two versions, one with text at the bottom left, the other without.  Both versions are listed as originals. My poster has this text, so am now wondering whether it's a re-issue, or were there actually two original versions?



I can't quite read the small text at bottom right on emovie, but mine says:



Oops, sorry for out of focus photo, but it's Impr. Lichtert & Fils, Bruxelles 7.

« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 07:40:47 AM by lynbabs »

Offline Silhouette

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Well to confuse things even more - Warner-Columbia distribution was a joint venture from the early 70s to the mid/late 80s
David


Offline erik1925

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So that could mean that those Belgian posters of Lawrence, with the Warner-Columbia SNC info in the lower left corner are from a 1970's (?) RR.



Looking at imdb, there was a re-release in a number of countries, in the early '70s (Belgium is not listed but that doesnt mean it wasn't re-released there, as well; *imdb is no where near complete in all of its info).



I also found a copy that was sold on HA.  Here is the info in the left and right corners on what they describe as a first release Belgian. It is lacking the #7, after the printer's name (same printer btw), in the lower right, and reads "Imprime En Belgique" on the lower left corner:

 

Now, to make it even more fun, there are yet other versions, with NOTHING printed in the lower left corner.  8) This image, too, from HA, and described as a first release:

« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 02:33:38 PM by erik1925 »


-Jeff

lynbabs

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Hmm. Curiouser and curiouser.

So possibly the 'Imprime en Belgique' is the original release? The ones which are blank at LH bottom are later 60s/70s RR and the one I have is 70s maybe even early80s RR?

Then again, if the Brussels postcode changed from 7 to 1070 in 1969, why would the 70s/80s prints have the old code?

This is where I need one of those funny gifs showing me scratching my head.  :-\

Offline erik1925

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Hmm. Curiouser and curiouser.

So possibly the 'Imprime en Belgique' is the original release? The ones which are blank at LH bottom are later 60s/70s RR and the one I have is 70s maybe even early80s RR?

Then again, if the Brussels postcode changed from 7 to 1070 in 1969, why would the 70s/80s prints have the old code?

This is where I need one of those funny gifs showing me scratching my head.  :-\

I would say this is correct and Im sure others more in the know will chime in, too.

The versions with Imprime En Belgique in the LL corner are the first release. And if you notice, too-- on that same version, there is NO postal code included in the printer's info- just the name and city.

And as David mentioned-- "the Warner-Columbia distribution was a joint venture from the early 70s to the mid/late 80s." This is also a strong indicator and way to date this particular poster, I would wager, as well.   ;)





-Jeff

Offline Silhouette

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I concur with my learned friend above - they may be old plates that they used for the printing of the poster which may explain the Bruxelles 7, perhaps the printers didn't want to go to the expense of making new plates or they may have just been lazy and not spotted that, however the Warner-Columbia partnership timeframe certainly cannot be argued with, and that dates your poster very clearly.

Also I would not use the release and re-release date on IMDB as your ruler, it is a fact that there are often dates and countries not accounted for. So, my pick would be early 70s, you could scan old newspapers in that country to try to establish when it was re-released, but the poster is probably not worth that sort of effort.
David


lynbabs

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Ok, many thanks for the detective work and learned opinions. Much appreciated!