Author Topic: Post-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....  (Read 2791881 times)

Offline erik1925

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Re: Post-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #10050 on: September 12, 2018, 12:11:55 AM »
Have any forum members consigned to Sotheby's?

What was the experience like?

Do we collectively believe some of the wild results or is it shill bidders or other shady behavior?

I would guess that all the winning bids are on the up and up, without shilling or any other kind of funny business going on. Look how many times something on HA goes way beyond an estimate.


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Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Post-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #10051 on: September 12, 2018, 04:19:01 AM »
a Hershey's bar at Wal Mart is $1.50 in Compton
the same Hershey bar on Rodeo Drive is $8.00

any questions?

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Offline Simes

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Re: Post-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #10052 on: September 12, 2018, 04:44:46 AM »
a Hershey's bar at Wal Mart is $1.50 in Compton
the same Hershey bar on Rodeo Drive is $8.00

any questions?

One.

Relevance?

Offline skyjackers

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Re: Post-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #10053 on: September 12, 2018, 04:50:06 AM »
Depending on where you buy your chocolate (poster), it may be more (Christies) or less (eBay) expensive.

Offline Simes

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Re: Post-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #10054 on: September 12, 2018, 04:52:34 AM »
Yeah but, precious little shilling when it comes to a chocolate.  Which was more my thrust....

Offline skyjackers

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Re: Post-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #10055 on: September 12, 2018, 05:18:45 AM »
I figured there was more to your comment, just didn't want to guess what it was.

Offline marklawd

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Re: Post-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #10056 on: September 12, 2018, 08:26:03 AM »
Too rich to care.

Mark

Offline erik1925

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Re: Post-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #10057 on: September 12, 2018, 12:53:32 PM »
a Hershey's bar at Wal Mart is $1.50 in Compton
the same Hershey bar on Rodeo Drive is $8.00

any questions?

 thumbsup.gif


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Re: Post-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #10058 on: September 12, 2018, 06:36:16 PM »
Depending on where you buy your chocolate (poster), it may be more (Christies) or less (eBay) expensive.
correct!


Yeah but, precious little shilling when it comes to a chocolate.  Which was more my thrust....

oh c'mon Simon. stop believing that claptrap.
one auctioneer makes these accusations regularly, but NEVER backs it up with any factual data.
Considering the seller has a conflict of interest when making such claims, in attempting to stain others so that he can get a competitive advantage, and there is nothing to back it up, it is nothing more than a fallacious claim by someone looking for a competitive advantage.

furthermore, lets look at the math of shill bidding. what benefit does an auction house have when they are bidding on an item that has already gone passed it's reserve? The answer: None and here is why. Lets say an item has a reserve of $5000 (hammer price, does not include BP), their percentage of 20%= $1000 + BP= $1000 (based on 20% commission & 20% BP). so the auction makes $2000

so maybe yur auction wants it to hammer at 10,000 for some reason, what happens if the auction house bids $6000.. and there are no further bids?
Not only has the house lost it's profits, but now it is stuck with this item that is going to cost them out-of-pocket $4800. That is a $6800 swing from $2000+ to ($4800-)

the detriments of shill bidding are clearly not favorable to the auction house

Might the consignors attempt shill bidding to drive up the price?
well some try, but the same math is their fail. You have a $5000 reserve and you get $4000. yay!
Or
Your friend shill bids for you. He goes to $6000 at your request and you indemnify him from any purchase. There are no further bids, so you just bought back your item from the auction house for $7200 ($6000 hammer + 20%). You get $5000 back from the auction, so it cost you $2200 out-of-pocket, plus you lost the $4000 you would have otherwise gotten - a $6200 swing!

what's the benefit?

This has nothing to do with the house bidding up to the bid before the reserve, which is the only format that a shill is legal, because it effects nothing. It's a house bidder hoping to find the bidder who will pay the reserve.

Shill bidding is a boogie man and only practiced by the ignorant and foolish
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 06:37:36 PM by MoviePosterBid.com »

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Re: Post-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #10059 on: September 12, 2018, 06:45:12 PM »
oh, by the way.. the collector who consigned the item that he won back... he can't reconsign it. If he makes his friend not pay, his friend gets banned. If the auction house finds out the shill was arranged, the consignor and the bidder are banned. If the consignor previously promoted he had the item and now it was supposedly sold via the auction, now the owner can't offer it publicly because everyone knows they are a scammer

only morons engage in such behavior

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Offline erik1925

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Re: Post-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #10060 on: September 12, 2018, 07:57:48 PM »
This French 1P for THE LOST WORLD (1960) sold today for $100.00

I think someone got a pretty good deal here, as the poster looks to be in unused, nice condition, too.



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Offline Neo

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Re: Post-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #10061 on: September 12, 2018, 08:03:26 PM »
correct!


oh c'mon Simon. stop believing that claptrap.
one auctioneer makes these accusations regularly, but NEVER backs it up with any factual data.
Considering the seller has a conflict of interest when making such claims, in attempting to stain others so that he can get a competitive advantage, and there is nothing to back it up, it is nothing more than a fallacious claim by someone looking for a competitive advantage.

furthermore, lets look at the math of shill bidding. what benefit does an auction house have when they are bidding on an item that has already gone passed it's reserve? The answer: None and here is why. Lets say an item has a reserve of $5000 (hammer price, does not include BP), their percentage of 20%= $1000 + BP= $1000 (based on 20% commission & 20% BP). so the auction makes $2000

so maybe yur auction wants it to hammer at 10,000 for some reason, what happens if the auction house bids $6000.. and there are no further bids?
Not only has the house lost it's profits, but now it is stuck with this item that is going to cost them out-of-pocket $4800. That is a $6800 swing from $2000+ to ($4800-)

the detriments of shill bidding are clearly not favorable to the auction house

Might the consignors attempt shill bidding to drive up the price?
well some try, but the same math is their fail. You have a $5000 reserve and you get $4000. yay!
Or
Your friend shill bids for you. He goes to $6000 at your request and you indemnify him from any purchase. There are no further bids, so you just bought back your item from the auction house for $7200 ($6000 hammer + 20%). You get $5000 back from the auction, so it cost you $2200 out-of-pocket, plus you lost the $4000 you would have otherwise gotten - a $6200 swing!

what's the benefit?

This has nothing to do with the house bidding up to the bid before the reserve, which is the only format that a shill is legal, because it effects nothing. It's a house bidder hoping to find the bidder who will pay the reserve.

Shill bidding is a boogie man and only practiced by the ignorant and foolish

I mentioned this link in the Auction House Practices thread a few months ago.  Sums it up much more accurately:

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/976830/heritage-auction-lost-on-my-bid-but-coin-is-now-back-in-dealers-inventory

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Re: Post-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #10062 on: September 12, 2018, 08:28:44 PM »
LMFAO

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Offline Neo

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Re: Post-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #10063 on: September 12, 2018, 08:41:58 PM »

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Re: Post-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #10064 on: September 12, 2018, 11:05:30 PM »
well, when you said "more accurate" it was worth laughing already. After reading that thread, where there is clearly only one or two people that has any idea what they were actually talking about and referencing, there was no other 'accurate' assessment than LMFAO

that's this emoji:
 laugh1


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Offline Neo

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Re: Post-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #10065 on: September 13, 2018, 04:46:10 AM »
well, when you said "more accurate" it was worth laughing already. After reading that thread, where there is clearly only one or two people that has any idea what they were actually talking about and referencing, there was no other 'accurate' assessment than LMFAO

that's this emoji:
 laugh1

There are several people, sharing specific details of their experiences.

You shared paragraphs of how you interpret some things, which similar to other things, are misinterpretations.

Offline Simes

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Re: Post-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #10066 on: September 13, 2018, 05:21:27 AM »
oh c'mon Simon. stop believing that claptrap.
one auctioneer makes these accusations regularly, but NEVER backs it up with...…...

Sir, with respect, I think you misunderstood, or did not read the comment to which you were reacting.

Again, I said 'there was precious little shilling when it came to chocolate'.  The pertinent word there being 'chocolate', and the inferred 'purchase' thereof.

Of course I believe there exists to be shilling with 'posters' and the 'auctioning' thereof.

My initial comment was one of highlighting the comparing of non like for non like.  'Twas all...

Offline crowzilla

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Re: Post-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #10067 on: September 13, 2018, 11:22:47 AM »
Hey did you know that of the two main poster auction houses people love to mention here that only one has an actual auctioneers license, is regulated by a state board and would be subject to penalties if it was found out something was amiss?
The Online Reference to Japanese Sci-Fi Posters:
www.Kaijuposters.com

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Re: Post-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #10068 on: September 13, 2018, 02:52:10 PM »
There are several people, sharing specific details of their experiences.

You shared paragraphs of how you interpret some things, which similar to other things, are misinterpretations.

the only misinterpretation here is that you think you have any clue to what you're talking about, which you don't. There was only a single person in that thread who understood anything there, and that was the guy talking about the buyback costs for those who insist on a reserve price for their consignments.

No consignor can bid on their stuff at Heritage or any other reputable auction or they will be banned.
the term 'buyback' refers very specifically to the small percentage you must pay the auction house, if you have a reserve & the item does not sell.

of course, you need intellectual acuity to understand this information and seeing as you clearly don't understand it, that says everything people need to know about you and your comments

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Offline crowzilla

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Re: Post-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #10069 on: September 13, 2018, 03:07:35 PM »
don't know about all the personal things, but...

No consignor can bid on their stuff at Heritage

this part is 100% true as Heritage software blocks you from bidding on your own consignment items.

does this mean you can ask a friend to bid for you? Yes, you can - and I can testify it's a dumb thing to do as I know someone who ended up buying an item back that way and not only did they lose an actual sale but they now were into the item for 30% more than they were before and it was extremely unlikely they could make money at the new break-ever point.
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Offline Neo

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Re: Post-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #10070 on: September 13, 2018, 04:09:26 PM »
the only misinterpretation here is that you think you have any clue to what you're talking about, which you don't. There was only a single person in that thread who understood anything there, and that was the guy talking about the buyback costs for those who insist on a reserve price for their consignments.

No consignor can bid on their stuff at Heritage or any other reputable auction or they will be banned.
the term 'buyback' refers very specifically to the small percentage you must pay the auction house, if you have a reserve & the item does not sell.

of course, you need intellectual acuity to understand this information and seeing as you clearly don't understand it, that says everything people need to know about you and your comments

No, you clearly misinterpret things to fit your little agenda.. whether it's with your self-acclaimed ultimate defender of auction house practices or politics.

You ignored the statements from various people with their experiences, and proceed on your own usual spiel. 

It's no secret of many auction houses' methods.

Your idea of "intellectual acuity" is regurgitating the same spiel, about how you and your favorite places and people are perfect little angels, and trying to trash other people by bad mouthing them.  Nothing new here.

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Re: Post-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #10071 on: September 13, 2018, 04:56:50 PM »
No, you clearly misinterpret things to fit your little agenda.. whether it's with your self-acclaimed ultimate defender of auction house practices or politics.

You ignored the statements from various people with their experiences, and proceed on your own usual spiel. 

It's no secret of many auction houses' methods.

Your idea of "intellectual acuity" is regurgitating the same spiel, about how you and your favorite places and people are perfect little angels, and trying to trash other people by bad mouthing them.  Nothing new here.

Neo, let me just put this into simple words... you're a moron. You wouldn't understand facts even if they were in front of you on a plate. Probably why you love Trump.

I'll also say something else.. If you can't handle being outed as a moron, maybe you should act like an adult and not be trying to take digs at people.

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Offline Neo

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Re: Post-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #10072 on: September 13, 2018, 05:27:13 PM »
Neo, let me just put this into simple words... you're a moron. You wouldn't understand facts even if they were in front of you on a plate. Probably why you love Trump.

I'll also say something else.. If you can't handle being outed as a moron, maybe you should act like an adult and not be trying to take digs at people.

The Trump thing is another ridiculous attempt at a cheap shot.  You completely ignored all the experiences those guys had on that forum.

The fact that you have to say nasty stuff to people, especially to those who are showing you something different than your usual narrative, to try to make yourself look smarter is sad.

I'll follow up here later tonight when I have more time.

Offline CSM

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Re: Post-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #10073 on: September 14, 2018, 01:24:49 PM »
What happened to all the camaraderie guys?  :-\

I recently had 2 visits from forum members to my warehouse in Las Vegas


Then a couple weeks later, Brandon (NeoLoco) was here also..


Chris

Offline Neo

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Re: Post-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....
« Reply #10074 on: September 14, 2018, 02:39:52 PM »
What happened to all the camaraderie guys?  :-\

Good question.

Personally, I don't view people who voted for x candidate different than those who voted for y candidate, or people who prefer one auction house over another.  Unlike Rich, who feels morally, intellectually, etc. superior, for whom he votes, "supports", whatever you'd like to call it.

I simply pointed out the fact that some folks were stating they had different experiences with auction houses', including HA's, fees, based on their negotiation skills, status, etc.  The ad hominem attacks employed in this case, are an example of some people's MO, when they're dealing with anyone who disagrees with them.