Avid collector, unable to sell

[movieposterman]

Hello! I am new here. I have a question and hope I can get some information.

I have been an avid collector of posters for over 15 years. I have posters for many of the major movies released during that time amounting to 1,000s of posters. I have collected these as my personal hobby. Occasionally I would sell one here or there. However, I have been blocked from continuing to sell. For example, I sold a few on eBay but got a "Verified Rights Owner" notice. I also tried to use the service Stripe, but was blocked as they claimed sale of these items is against their "Prohibited and Restricted Businesses" policy. Clarification requests from these companies that blocked me is met with automated responses and their decision is final.

As I am a hobbyist, I don't sell posters to make money, I sell the ones I don't want in my collection to others who would hopefully appreciate them. So I would only sell them at a price to cover expenses like shipping. Because I want to continue my collection, I need to make space for new posters and I can't keep the ones I don't want in my collection. I'd hate to just throw them away. My question is, what do others do to sell and is there a way around or alternatives to the problems I've described?

Thanks

[Neo]

Welcome aboard MPM 

That's an interesting issue.  I had that happen once with another item.  It was a fancy item that the company tries to prevent folks from selling it on eBay because the company sells it at a ridiculously overpriced amount.  Sellers on eBay would probably acquire them either from someone who bought them or maybe they had bought them at the crazy price from the company and now they're trying to recoup some of the money they spent.  Anyway, this company reports each of those as violation of their intellectual property or something, and the company sent me a message with nonsense legal talk like that, and eBay removes the listings.  Once the listings were removed, as you said, eBay would flag them instantly if the sellers tried to list them again. Of course this is completely not valid, per the first sale doctrine, folks are allowed to sell this item.  I even explained this to eBay but it was no use.  Personally I sold it on Amazon and had no issues with Amazon.  Anyway, good luck.  Maybe you can just start a new account, and change the item title and description a little, and sell it through that account.  Hopefully no one will contact eBay about it again and it won't get automatically flagged again.

PS: here's a thread from a lawyer who talks about the first sale doctrine and how it applies to movie posters: https://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,4205.0.html

[movieposterman]

Hi Neo, thank you! I have never tried to sell something on Amazon. I'll look into that. Are there any known alternatives to a service like Stripe that would not shut me down?

I can't create another account since they require you to provide your information and will know it's me creating a new account. You can get permanently banned doing that and I don't want to risk being blocked from acquiring new posters for my collection as well.

Thanks for the link about the first sale doctrine. I explained that in my disputes to the companies, but they don't care if it's legal or not. I think they just want to avoid a lawsuit even if me and them are on the winning side. Besides, I probably never made them more than a few pennies a month since I sold maybe one poster every month or two for basically the price of shipping. I'm nothing to them. It is just discouraging that a loophole like that is exploited and there is nothing that can be done.

[Neo]

No problem.  I don't know much about Stripe.  What other companies are you talking about?  If you don't mind me asking.

[eatbrie]

As I am a hobbyist, I don't sell posters to make money, I sell the ones I don't want in my collection to others who would hopefully appreciate them.

This!   

I don't sell, I have never sold and don't plan on selling, so I apologize for my ignorance, but people sell posters all over Ebay, as dealers, as collectors or just to make a quick buck.  I don't quite understand why YOU, specifically, would be blocked, especially if it's just here and there.

Also, if your posters are worth more than $30 individually, maybe you could send them to Bruce.  Just an idea.

T

[BwanaDik]

First time I hear this for poster, quite common for fine art.

Was there any specific terms or non-selling clause at time of purchase?
If not, why are they after you? 

[movieposterman]

Neo - I'm just talking about those two companies.

eatbrie - the value of mine vary quite a bit. Most of them aren't too valuable though since they are for films within the last 15 years. I'll look into working with Bruce though. How does Bruce not run into similar issues? What payment company is used by Bruce?

BwanaDik - there was no non-selling clause that I was aware of. It's basically just the payment companies saying that selling these items violates their policies. My guess is, like with eBay, a movie studio submitted an intellectual property complaint and they just automatically shut me down rather than investigate the validity of the complaint. I may have just been unlucky.

[eatbrie]

I don't know how Bruce does it, but he has his own company and it's all fine.

I mean, it seems like everybody is selling movie posters on Ebay.  Almost all the new "original" international posters are fakes from Thailand and Singapore and that doesn't seem to bother sellers, buyers, Ebay or anyone else.  You can see them appearing on US sellers listing at the same time they appear on Thai sites.  Coincidence?  I think not.  So I don't see how someone selling original material that he collected in the US would be targeted.  Like you said, maybe bad luck.

T

[Neo]

Bruce/eMovie do not run into similar issues because there is no issue with selling this stuff.  As was discussed in the first sale doctrine thread, the studios don't go after folks or businesses selling this stuff.  The only real case seems to have been with MovieGoods, and that had to do with them selling reprints.

eBay just listens to anyone who says "this seller can't sell that" and takes their word for it, and removes the seller's listings, so eBay doesn't have to deal with it; even though they're bogus claims, it seems that eBay thinks it would take more effort than it's worth for eBay to fight them.

If you're barely making any money from it, you could just donate them to a local art place.  There are programs for people to make collages and stuff - better than throwing them away or making pennies on eBay and all the hassle IMO.  A lot of folks would appreciate the donation and you may be able to get a tax deduction.

[movieposterman]

What system does Bruce use to verify if a poster's value is $30 or more? I'm considering sending mine, but I'd like to better understand how I can confirm the value for his company.

Based on my experience, I don't believe that Bruce's company is immune. All a movie studio would need to do is send the payment processing company that Bruce uses to collect payment an intellectual rights violation complaint, whether valid or not, and he'd be shut down. I believe that the payment processors would rather shut a person down than go through the hassle of actually figuring out if the complaint is valid or not. That could mean legal fees for them and you which not worth their time or money.

Further more, in my research based on the prior linked to thread, I believe Movie Goods, Inc. did not win the case brought by Disney Enterprises. Many of the links in that prior post are broken so I am unable to review what was being referenced. However, according to https://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/cacdce/2:2009cv04968/448705/102/ the result of the case was an amended consent judgment of permanent injunction in favor of Disney and 20th Century Fox against Movie Goods regarding the plaintiff's copyrights and trademarks. In other words, the court decided in favor of Disney and 20th Century Fox and agreed with them that Movie Goods had violated their copyrights and trademarks and ordered Movie Goods to stop using the materials. Each side had to bear their own legal fees and costs. I could very well be wrong as I am not a lawyer and given that the prior linked to post is nearly 12 years old, it would be great to get an updated legal take on the sale of movie posters. Furthermore, it would be even better to understand actions that could be taken when invalid intellectual rights violation complaints are lodged.

[Neo]

I don't know what to say, MPM. Sounds like you could start an argument in an empty house.

[bigmike]

Can you give us an example of some recent ones that were removed? The Poster, title, picture…
I am just curious.

You can’t really compare Emovie to Moviegoods. Movie goods were selling reprints/reproductions.

[Crazy Vick]

I'm not seeing how your issue re determining the value for your potential consignments is related to the disney case?

In any case emovie has an auction database that can be researched for past value.  That's a good starting point.  You can also reach out to his team and confirm ahead of time.