Godfather Red Face UK 3 Sheet Poor job?

[PosterMani]

Dear All
Hope all is well and safe. I joined few weeks back. You can read a little about me in Introduce Yourself section.
I would like your thoughts and opinions on a linen backing and "restoration" job I had done at The Movie Poster Art Gallery Colville Place London. It is somewhat long winded description so please bear with me.
I wanted to have their response before I post my experience with them.

After finding a decent enough copy at eMovieposter, I took it to be linen backed. See Original

I met Martyn who was pleasant enough at the time and assured me the folds will come out ok, with an estimate of 6 weeks or so. He charged me £200 for the backing and £40 for light restoration.
After missed deadlines, poster was linen backed and I went to inspect it at the gallery. At the time it looked ok to me and I took pictures.

After it was delivered to me in late Aug I had the poster still wrapped in my living room while procrastinating/ discussing with the family as where to hang it, etc and this was finally done around Xmas 2022. Room was normal living conditions  and I have had US 3 sheet of Live and Let Die on a similar wall without any issues for a few years.
The closer I looked at the poster I noticed more and more "rippling" , some air bubbles and some tears.
 

Air bubble?

What really broke my heart was the two tears that noticed.


I contacted MPAG in early Feb and they told me poster was a perfect example of restoration and asked me send photos. Told them that I had US 3 sheet on similar wall with no problems.
Here is what they told me after being prompted for a response repeatedly.

March 01
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Yes I see what you mean .
Certainly the paper has been shocked and this ripple is 100% consistent with humidity changes.  It was 40 degrees for a while in summer and dropped minus 8 in London in December  As you know the separation certainly was not in it when it left here. It left here  in fine condition.  But expansion and contraction has obviously found a week spot in the papers weave as it is 50 years old. The only thing that makes paper move like that are humidity changes. This can be caused  by temperature changes /air conditioning /sunlight   Your poster was backed with all reversible conservation materials and has been with you 8 months. Overall its protected and the movement is cosmetic, the separation is fixable .   Your other three sheet poster may have been mounted in a permanent non conservation  way and fixed  in place .

Have a quick  check to see if the back of the frame is free from mould .   If we can help in some way this is an unusual and rare occurrence  i'm sorry your enjoyment has been curtailed .
best
Martyn
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Told them poster had only been with me for under 6 months ( I called them in early Feb)  so missed the Aug heatwave, there was no mould and separation was there before the poster was shipped, per photo I took in gallery in August, which I sent them.
Again after a lot of prompting I got below.
27 March
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We have reviewed your photos and comments and feedback is below based on our extensive expertise with decades of experience in conservation and framing of literally thousands of original vintage posters

The image you sent is not evidence of a tear but is part of the fold line.
 
Your poster was folded as you know.  This is a sign of originality for the GB Godfather 3 sheet as they were folded for distribution to the cinema. From our photo you can clearly see this intersecting machine fold. You can see it runs horizontally and crosses the vertical fold also running very close to the black border of the artwork.  This is difficult to see in direct light or in low light and also low quality photos from a phone. 
 
On your photo that you took pre linen backing we increased the contrast and you can clearly see the areas of crinkled paper adjacent to the fold . The paper fibres are stretched and warn along all these points. Although your photo doesnt show enough detail its clearly there.

The top left section of this poster was the final machine fold.  This fold had to stretch over the entire thickness of the rest of thefolded poster hence the crinkled look in our photo.  Every single folded example of this poster reveal this to be the area where the paper fibres are stretched and worn  All the posters are machine folded in the same way with a top left fold intersecting with a vertical fold running parallel with theartwork black border.  This fold takes the most stress when stored or posted out or distributed to the cinemas at the time and with each opening and closing of the poster.  All of the GB Godfather 3 sheets are heavily folded onthicker paper than a standard quad poster. So the folds are deeper and become more creased.  Remember you poster has been stressed along these points when opened and folded and stored for up to 50 years.
 
Linen backing stabilises and minimises this but does not in itself make fold lines invisible.  The only way to make these warn areas ‘invisible' is to do a practice known as airbrushing which covers it with a fine layer of paint. Airbrushing is practised widely in the U.S. for clients who want their posters to look perfect but also can disguise damage in a poster.  However paint ages differently to paper and given time the airbrushing can be revealed making the poster look worse.  This is not a conservation method.
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And they sent me photos below.











I told them only one of the tears is along the fold line and the other is not on  the fold line. And they can check this against my super res original photo from eMovie.
And I got this
27 March
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Mani your now saying that there is further damage done by us.  The auction photos are only  proof of the poster when it was photographed not when it was posted out and handled before it reached us .  sometimes auction houses can pack and handle badly or even the postage damage items post sale , also you yourself have handled it.  I have told you Mani If we ever have an issue with a poster we would have told you. You seem to think that we are hiding something from you which we would never do.

On a different tack , the poster doesn’t actually need re-backing.  just pressing. This can be done using 10 mm acid free foam core to restore its flatness.  Your local framer could do this

best

Martyn
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So Dear All, sorry for the long story. Their story does not make sense to me and it certainly seems to be changing with every email. And I cant see any fold lines along the second tear even in the B/W photos they sent me themselves or perhaps I am missing something. Would appreciate any thoughts or opinions on this job.

As for moving on if I want to have the poster flattened as far as I can see, now  I have two options:

Taking the poster  out of frame, sending it to US via Antikbar to remove and reback at cost of £500 ( and then a new frame if poster too big?).

Or have the foam core solution  that he suggests?

Would be grateful for any thoughts and suggestions.
Mani

[BwanaDik]

I can clearly see the tear along the foldline in the first picture.

You went to inspect at the gallery, you mean the framer or the linenbacker. 
One advice, always do the framing after checking the linenbacking; it is important you see the back and also check the linen and buffer paper.
Yep, the picture you took when picking the item shows no line, no fold, no tear. Just some waves at bottom due to frame may a slightly tied 

Now, do you know if they use a buffer paper, that is a PH free paper placed between the linen and the poster?
Also, is the frame at back fully isolated, if yes with what?  Bad backboard can catch humidity pretty badly.

For sure, humidity and changes of condition can have a huge impact on the linen backing. 
Let us know your location and where was hanged/place, which room so that we have idea of the weather condition where you live.

But yeah, as they say, first thing to suspect is humidity.  Paper or linen is catching humidity and moving. I would suspect your walls/place to have high humidity  (sometimes you don't even see it, especially if infiltration is small; you need to touch the wall).  Yep, check the back for mold. Extreme condition change can also trigger the linen and paper to move.     It is possible also that the all things wasn't fully dried initially and that extra moisture brought even more stress, like some kind of saturation (for sure, if not fully dried, any humidity would trigger).  Some framers prefer to isolate the frame (to protect from insect and humidity at the back), don't forget glass also catches humidity ,actually I don't see any passe-partout around the poster, I hope you poster doesn't touch the glass because with time, poster will stick to glass; some prefer to use acrylic glass for this reason.  Also, some will have small opening at the back to allow material to breathe.   Framing is really not easy; my experience is that whatever you do, you can't fight the weather, sun and effect of time on it, most of my frame stuff are damaged in one way or another.    You need to have a routine checkup of frames, at least twice a year.

Beware, I am not an expert    But
To me, the bubbles, waves and reappearing folds do require a rebacking; I doubt you will get a result by flattening it, especially if you don't know the reason behind these bubbles, etc. 
You have similar linenbacked stuff on your wall and not issue... then, yeah, something is wrong, presumably the material used (linen and/or framing - is it the same framer?) or improper drying or hasten process (meaning they did the process without proper drying between stages)  (Dario said 24h drying minimum before putting the poster - this is why there is a buffer paper, the buffer paper is glued to linen and then fully dried; this paper is the getting all the stress at drying... this is at this stage that the linenbacker can say if linenbacking is OK or not as sticking the poster to the buffer paper requires a little glue and humidity, just for poster to stick)

You definitely need a proper diagnostic before engaging further.
I would suggest you find a professional linen backer near you, and bring the frame to him.  Explain the all thing and ask him if he can open the frame and provide a fair assessment; may be he can write a full report.  Send it to the linenbacker for compensation, if you are in UK, check for the Small Complaints Court or whatever it is called - https://www.gov.uk/complain-company

At the end, what you do depends of original prices of poster.  You may be better off buying a new one in better condition... then follow advices here, don't linenback.  Folds, tears and waves are fine and part of poster history, be proud of it, the poster had a life before you got it.   And use a passe-partout if you go for glass; acrylic glass is better. Anti-UV if in sun.    To me, linenbacking has no use unless you want to make profit, that is by buying valuable posters at cheap price due to folds/damages and resell as pristine;  real collectors don't buy linenbacked posters but there is a trend, people want neat posters

My 2 cents

[PosterMani]

Hi BwanaDik
Thank you so much for your advice.
But the tear is actually there in the  photos I took in the gallery. It is not as hi res because I took the photo by phone . Not sure if  enlarged enough and you can just see the dark area where the tears are



 Hence why I am somewhat unconvinced of his explanation of humidity and paper shock, which then changed to fold line stress after I sent them the photos.
As for humidity I live in London , which is wet most of the time. But no leaks in in the ceiling and we have central heating A According to my hygrometer, humidity in my living room is around 55%.
Poster is hung in living room wall ( not an outside wall) and as mentioned US 3 Sheet Bond poster is hanging on similar wall and it looks exactly the same as day I hung it few years back.
My hunch is a rushed job. When first due date was up, around 6 weeks or so, I contacted them and Martyn told me he hadn't a chance to start as he had Covid and he had a back log so needed another 6 weeks.
I am sure this was  true but my first instinct was to cancel the job and take the poster elsewhere. 

They framed the poster as well, with UV Perspex ( this is what they told me and charged me for ).
I checked the linen backed  poster prior to framing. I didn't check the back.  Some ink stains ( which I was originally told would be removed) were still there. They said they would remove them. One was removed but noticed more when I hung the poster.

I linen backed as I thought this the general practice to remove fold and join the 2 parts of the poster.
I was going to take my Strausfeld Mean Streets and Badlands to them for linen backing and reframing. But not now and definitely not with them.

Moving on, I need to decide whether to reback or not. I cant seem to find another version of this poster, already backed. And the "sold out" ones I have seen are extoritanly expensive.
So what do I need to ask them?
1-  Did they use PH free buffer paper.
2 Is the frame at back fully isolated.
Anything else?
Thanks again for your time.
Mani