Author Topic: Bidding Against Dealers  (Read 685 times)

Offline DinDinTahm

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Bidding Against Dealers
« on: November 17, 2020, 10:49:15 PM »
https://youtu.be/RMWoLUrCAfM


Don't you lahrf it? One of the happiest moments of my life (one of them... *smiles*) occured around five years ago when I was interested in a set of stills that had never been offered before, each one in fine condition. And guess who else had their eyes on the prize - None other than - dehr dehr degh nergh...! - Posteritati!!! It was at that point I knew I could relax. Dealers are stingy. They might be instantly attracted to the words "unique" and "rare" but they refuse to pay what something is worth - so they can sell it for what it's not worth - therein lies the quandary and botheration. As the bids climbed slowly but surely, I sensed how frustrated Posteritati was becoming: swollen neck, veins on the forehead at bursting point, sweat on his fingers. (Yum!) I was ready to bid much higher (to be sure, to be sure...) but I knew Posteritati wasn't, so I gleaned every ounce of enjoyment out of the bid increments (I think I even orgasmed around the $250 point). You know what's funny? Even though I sensed how vexed Posteritati was and how obsessed he'd become with this one lot (and as the days drew nearer to the auction I smothered myself in this realisation) I just strolled down life's path - a little bid here, one there - no there - and a lot of one HERE - Mmmerh... I was so confident in my belief over the cheapness of dealers that I wasn't watching the auction over the last half day. I didn't even raise my proxy. I knew my top bid (which wasn't outrageous but was commendable - "I commend you!" Get it?) would hold firm. Why not just sleep in and let nature take its course? Did I roar like a baby lamb when I discovered an email that declared I had beaten Posteritati at $400! What a steal - and would I have paid double for the experience of frustrating a dealer! Just last night I was perusing part of my collection (these stills, along with many others, I had packed up, intending to sell - that was during one of my dour moods. The next day I decided to keep them but kept them boxed up which probably protected them. Yeah?), transferring them into new folders and fell in love with them all over again. These days, I collect mainly posters but if the right still strikes my eye, no dealer can afford it! I don't know... out-bidding civilian collectors isn't as fun. Okay it is but I don't relish the after effects to the extent I do when I cross the line with a dealer. How do you feel about bidding against dealers? Does it prompt you to bid more, bid less - do you steer clear of them or does it turn you into a dog with a bone? Just waiting for cineMasterpieces to rear his head in an auction I covet - then I'll have a multi!!!
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Offline Crazy Vick

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Re: Bidding Against Dealers
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2020, 12:27:30 AM »
What's the benefit of selecting a username that identifies you as a dealer?  Free advertising? 

I would think the opposite...

Offline DinDinTahm

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Re: Bidding Against Dealers
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2020, 02:41:33 AM »
What's the benefit of selecting a username that identifies you as a dealer?  Free advertising? 

I would think the opposite...

https://youtu.be/SiYrjJ7sdDo


Kerhlahze, I don't get it. Initially I found it mildly irritating but then I was thankful. I can now locate which dealers score which bargains. Let them have an online store full of cheap finds. If nobody buys from them, that's all they'll ever have.
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Offline dpcarlson

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Re: Bidding Against Dealers
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2020, 01:53:54 PM »
I've also bid against Posteritati on several auctions but hold no grudges, and here's why: 

From my perspective, I think the team at Posteritati does an excellent job with their website where I've purchased a handful of posters from them over the years, as well as visiting their shop/gallery when I was in Manhattan.  They've built a fine business doing what they do - finding quality posters from around the world, advertising & marketing, client communications, payment options, and packaging & shipping items with no issues, etc.  All of which is the cost of doing business - something that most poster collectors (hobbyists?) do not understand or appreciate when posters seem 'overpriced'.  Generally speaking, the value they put on posters is fair for the market, and if customers or collectors don't want to pay that price - keep searching your sources until you find an example of that poster that suits you.  Interestingly, in the past I've bought at least two posters from Posteritati that are exceptionally rare and have since ballooned in price so it's all a matter of perspective. 

Most importantly, I think Posteritati should be celebrated for the work they do in the NYC film community/industry.  Their team are true cinephiles who actively support independent filmmaking and festivals on-line through their social media, and in-house where they open their doors to host special events that celebrate cinema. That's something to appreciate and a great model for doing business.

Offline DinDinTahm

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Re: Bidding Against Dealers
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2020, 10:41:36 PM »
https://youtu.be/-6m-8DEomdw


Dppie, don't hold out for a discount for that sunny, promotional word of mouth. Money means more to dealers than relationships. What's it matter if Posteritati have a competent website or a shop you've visited? Should they be rewarded by accepting five to ten times the amount for a poster that you could pick up at a reasonable price from EMP? They are not a charity case and wherever and however they obtain their goods - someone is being stiffed. It's a business - they don't overpay for anything and they certainly don't pass on the savings to you.

I understand the overheads a business accrues but they are nothing compared to what they used to be. Online shopping has changed all that - not only in terms of the cost of getting their product seen, foot traffic, but also with how they obtain their goods. Where do you think they find their stock? The same place you do - EMP! Gone are the days of a dealer driving three hours to a hick's barn in Virginia on a freezing fall day to spend another six hours trudging through stacks of trash until he comes across ten posters that just makes the trip pay for itself. You'd have to be crazy paying a dealer ten times for a poster you can obtain easily, and the same way he does, for much less.

Should I genuflect and open my wallet because Posteritati love movies? Last time I checked, 99% of the world's population support cinema and I noticed when you describe how Posteritati are 'true cinephiles' and list their achievements, you neglect to mention how much *money* they've donated in their support of the film industry. That's the clincher - you can open doors and spread the word on social media - it costs NOTHING. Yet think of all the free publicity they receive, goodwill in the community etc.. They get a lot out of it for minimum outlay. And with all due respect, it's costing you nothing to promote them.

I'm actually confused as to what you're getting out of it. You either work for Posteritati or you are, as you say, a repeat buyer. If that's the case, I believe you've done more than enough for a company by paying them ten times the price something is worth. And it's not fair market price. That's what the average price you can obtain a poster on EMP, is.

I've perused Posteritati's website and think they sell alot of tat: alot of reissues, post 70's titles nobody wants and unappealing international examples. I didn't see any special posters, nothing I want.

So tell me again, why should I shop there?
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Offline ddilts399

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Re: Bidding Against Dealers
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2020, 04:55:11 PM »
This thread makes no sense. To the highest bidder goes the goods, who gives a crap it it is marklawd ( :) , too many times! ) or some dealer.

If you dont like the prices presented at a website don't buy it is really pretty simple. 

Several dealers have earned trusted relationships with their buyers and buyers will pay a premium to buy and have some piece of mind. Some sites have the best domain name on the net for posters, and some have worked SEO to an art. It allows them to price higher, and procure inventory at a higher price point.  There is no reason to begrudge any site for their prices or any bidder for running up a price. Don't like a price, quit bidding, wait for it to come around again.  There are obvious buyers on emovie that are dealers as they bid on the same titles over and over again, but guess what, there must still be some margin to be had or they wouldn't keep buying and bidding to those levels.


Offline DinDinTahm

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Re: Bidding Against Dealers
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2020, 10:50:24 PM »
https://youtu.be/kT6AhKTSnqc


ddiltie, what is confusing you so? I think everyone is in agreement that when an auction ends, the high bidder is the winner.

Just because I don't shop somewhere, it doesn't preclude me from talking about it. And no dealers can be trusted when it comes to money. Like I said, I was ripped off and deceived on several occasions by a long-time dealer. I'll be talking about it in detail (names, dates etc..) when y'all know me better.  ;D

Who cares what domain name one has - you think I'll pay ten times the price for a poster because their domain name is 'better'? What a load of nonsense. Of course I can resent dealers asking ridiculous amounts of money for tat - and that's just what they sell. Most dealers keep the good stuff, and in great condition, for themselves and sell the lesser titles or heavily restored examples of better ones, to their customers. That was a lightbulb moment for me: I looked around at dealers' sites and realised what a load of rubbish they had stocked in their stores. Very few online dealers sell the special stuff and when they do, it either flies out the door (when unsuspecting newbies or impatient, rich people bite the bullet) or sits there forever because of the silly prices.

Of course, there is a lot of tat sold at auctions but most of it sells at bargain basement and if you have patience, the good stuff will land in your lap. You never get a bargain from a dealer. You always overpay and the condition is usually not what you'd prefer. So tell me, what is the benefit of buying from a dealer?

Who's begrudging genuine bidders? My only problem is with shills; either the consignor or friends of the consignor, playing games. Sometimes dealers not involved will bump up the price out of resentment that you're not purchasing from them and providing them an income. All three are despicable although I laugh at those dealers: they normally place conservative bids and the money goes to somebody else, so they don't really benefit. And shills have to be careful: some bidders have the sixth sense and will push shills past the point of no return - what a delicious moment that can be!

All in all, this is a non-dealers market. Collectors have become too shrewd. No one is buying from dealers. Their online stores are just for show, borne out of some kind of half-passed pride. Their stock doesn't sell. On ebay it does, but the majority of posters sold there are fakes or reissues misrepresented or items priced even more outrageously than on dealers' websites.
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Offline DinDinTahm

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Re: Bidding Against Dealers
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2020, 10:58:32 PM »
https://youtu.be/dRu1bia6FRo


Wow, Posteritati are stopping to smell the roses - they have a poster that's only three times the price of one that sold at EMP's Sunday auction just now: the R89 400 Blows B1 - both unfolded and in very good condition. EMPs went for $421 and at Posteritati it's only $1,250! That's about as generous a dealer as I've ever seen. Good times...
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Offline crowzilla

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Re: Bidding Against Dealers
« Reply #8 on: Today at 04:48:33 AM »
Wow, Posteritati are stopping to smell the roses - they have a poster that's only three times the price of one that sold at EMP's Sunday auction just now: the R89 400 Blows B1 - both unfolded and in very good condition. EMPs went for $421 and at Posteritati it's only $1,250! That's about as generous a dealer as I've ever seen. Good times...

Guessing you don't stop by the Cinemasterpieces website much.
I'll just leave this as an example


The Online Reference to Japanese Sci-Fi Posters:
www.Kaijuposters.com

Offline DinDinTahm

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Re: Bidding Against Dealers
« Reply #9 on: Today at 05:53:53 AM »
https://youtu.be/lOXb1jVjY58


Ehf Corhe, Karhlohzeeleh. Notice how CineMasterpieces won't accept credit card? This isn't a safety net to protect against fraud - pay by cash or money order, it becomes that much harder for the customer to get their money back if they want to return the poster. Pay via credit card - they can open up a dispute in two seconds flat.

fmita
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