Changing the name of the forum?

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Should the forum name be changed to something clearly related to "movie posters"?  

Being off the board for a bit has given me a bit of perspective:

(1) This forum overall is doing well.  It has the best - and coolest - movie poster collectors on the internet. Spend a few minutes on Expresso Beans and you'll quickly how dorky other forums are. So the core members are the prime asset of this forum.

(2) However, a "catch all" poster forum was a noble idea but, given the specialized and well-established competition, has not and cannot work in practice.

(3) ExpressoBeans dominates and will continue to dominate general art prints.  Given the vast database of posters on Expresso, this forum cannot compete in that arena. Indeed, Expresso is simply technically superior to this forum.

(4) Gigposters.com will continue to dominate music posters. This forum can never compete in that arena.

(5) 95% of the posts on this forum concern movie posters.  The advertising, music, and theater sections are a dead zone.  Plus, I suspect there are probably very few advertising/theater poster collectors anyway.

(6) This forum is invisible on Google.  Type in any "movie poster ___" query and this forum does not show up.  MPF shows up #1 on virtually every query.

(7) Very few, if any, new members are finding this site on their own.  Most new members are poached from MPF.

( MPF is a dead zone but will continue to exist as long as the advertisers support it.

(9) This forum is very "top heavy" - the top 20 posters are responsible for 80% of the posts. (See attachment). A broader membership base is needed to sustain growth.  (Perhaps this forum and NS4 could merge?)

Would a new forum name help the situation? Or possibly a "mirror site" of this site with a movie poster related name?

How sayest the rest of you?

[Dr Hackenbush]

So because EB is the be-all-end-all for art prints, APF shouldn't have a forum for them?  I don't follow that logic.  Why should APF change their name?  It hasn't been around a year yet.  It takes time to develop a following and build a name.  No need to overreact

[supraman079]

Andy spent a lot of time with search engine optimization so that his site would pop up on the first page of google searches. So it only makes sense that they would find MPF first when searching. Plus the name in of itself is geared toward movie posters.

T and H wanted to keep it open to all posters as H has become a big collector of advertising posters and has brought a few others over that collect in that area. But yes this forum is mainly full of movie related collectors.

[holiday]

I wouldn't be adverse to a name change, but I don't think it makes a difference to anything.  Andy markets his forum to make money - Thierry and I could care less about making money with the forum.  Now, I would like to reach more people for membership only because it would be cool to increase diversity.

By the way, if you look at our registration numbers, we're over 2000 "members"!  What a fucking joke that is.  That number is derived from spambot registrations.  Imagine how many bots Andy counts in his numbers when reaching 4000 "members".

Back to the point - search engine optimization takes a fair amount of effort.  I don't have the time for it, and Thierry doesn't have the  technical ability to do so.  If anyone has suggestions, I'd be willing to hear them.

Also, we're not just about posters.  We're prints, lobby cards, window cards, books and other things all movie related.  Even the advertising posters and graphic art posters are for the most part centered around movies.

So, any new title would reflect that the site deals with visual arts memorabilia - including television, theater, movies and the like.

I'd like to hear what King Cheese has to say about this.

[Mondo Hazardo]

I think it's a pity that there are so little posts of non-movie posters. Then again with movie posters the collector market is already so diverse and enormous. The entire poster collecting area is huge and almost impossible to cover entirely.
 A lot of shown movie posters don't interest me in the slightest, although I like to see them and sometimes they do stir. You guys even persuaded me in buying a Tyler Stout. I'm pretty sure most of you guys don't share my collecting tastes and I'm glad of it. I think that's the main reason for a forum in the first place, to see what you would not see otherwise and to show off the stuff you could not show off any other way.
I feel that the information value of a forum is subjective, fragmented and very user unfriendly to find back.

So I say Mel, continue to post and read posts and keep people enthused as you do and don't be too analytical about it. I say Thierry and Holiday keep up the good work and I say Mondo and all the others post a bit more, especially in the non-movie sections. I will beef up immediately.

Wim

[stewart boyle]

I would just like to say that I dont think a name change would be of any use,the current name fits the forums diversity that i prefer.
Im a member of MPF NS4 but i hardly ever spend any time on them because i cannot stand being bombarded with ads while im trying to read.
Advertising revenue would be the only way that this forum could compete with the others and raise its profile on search engines,but then i feel it would lose its individuality and become just another Java loaded flash dazzle forum.
Simple is best for me.
The majority of posts do seem to be about movie posters but also the Alamo/Rolling thread is hugely popular too, that part of the forum holds no interest for me but i can choose not to read it.I am however glad that it is there to read because it keeps the forum active,there is nothing worse being a member of a forum that has very little topics and discussions per day.

Stew

[holiday]

Interestingly, I would have said the same about the Alamo threads and other graphic prints discussions.  Recently, though, we've got this fella producing posters for Blade Runner and there's a few others that I've picked up in the past that have slowly brought me around to liking a lot of this material.  I now find myself referencing the old posts of the people that have been there for a long time.

The point is, I think it is diverse, but I also agree that we've likely reached the natural limit of that diversity given the other forums that are out there dedicated to things like concert posters, av equipment and the like.

And I truly agree that only advertising revenue could fund increased awareness of the forum, and going in that direction would sorta defeat the purpose of why Thierry and I started this place to begin with - as an escape for the bullshit-driven views of one owner who had his eye more on the dollar than on the membership.  Thierry and I have to come out of pocket a few hundred a year for this place, and we can live with that. 

Word of mouth is a good way for us to get known.  It keeps every tom dick and harry from joining.  By the time people find this place, they have to dig a bit, and those who are willing to do so are likely to be better members for us than the idiot with a passing interest in what we do here.

[paul waines]

Have we not heard the saying "If it's not broken, don't fix it". I don't know what the problem is here? Not even a year yet and your thinking of changing the name, or joining up with another forum!!!  I think the site is doing fine. Maybe there aren't enough posts in other area's, but they are there if needs be.

I like the "Family" feel the site has, and you cannot buy that. In time the Family will grow, and as Zorba said some where, "there's always more Guests on than Members", well when they realise this site is more fun than MPF, they'll be jumping ship. People get in a comfort zone, and change is a slow process with them, Time is the key.

I say leave as is for now. Holiday and Thierry are doing a Jollyfine job, and Ted works his arse off for this site; and Mel........He's Mel.  

[guest8]

I can see both sides of the argument .. But I agree its way too soon to be judging the success or demise of this forum .. as far as coming up in searches .. outside of purposely working for high search engine results (like embedding key words and tags and all that fun *rolls eyes* stuff) all we can do is keep posting .. Our topics have the keywords in them .. I did a google search for "movie poster alamo forum" and APF was number 8 on the page due to the number of times those words appear on some of our threads .. Obviously MPF and EB came up before APF but we were still there on the 1st page with a fairly general search phrase ..

So all I can say is keep posting about what we love and that along with word of mouth will increase awareness

Now it would be awesome to have a movie poster database like EB .. and as I mentioned in another thread it could be built solely by members .. If only the structure was there so that we could upload images and info .. I know its not an easy task to incorporate  but Im also not aware of the options available from the forum hosting side of things either. It could be a simple add on that they handle on the back end then again it may be a totally custom job too ..

PS
GLAD TO HAVE YA BACK MEL !!

[Harry Caul]

A few quick thoughts...

First of all, I love the fact that this forum is free of both sponsors and advertisers.  It is truly a site by collectors and for collectors!  However, I realize that means Holiday and T must be dealing with some out of pocket costs for all this so any changes will cost money.  That said, I don't think it would be a waste of time to promote APF more as it would bring more people, more discussions, and more posters to our community.  Yes, we have a great core group of people, but we need to grow that if we hope to stay relevant through the years.  With that in mind...

NAME CHANGE: Changing the name from APF (to something more Movie specific) would change the vision that Holiday and Thierry have put forward.  I think a lot can be done within the existing vision so I don't think it is necessary to change the name just yet...

PROMOTION: Do yourself a favor and search on something like "eBay" on Google.  You not only get a link to the site, but a short paragraph describing the site and a few of the sublinks (eBay Autos, etc...) as well.  If you search on "all poster forum", this is what comes up:



Now contrast that with what comes up when you search on "movie poster forum":



Quite a difference I think.  In APF's blurb, it just takes text directly off the site which doesn't help explain at all what we do here.  There are also no sublinks. I'm not sure how much SEO (search engine optimization) costs, but I do think it would be a worthwhile endeavor.  I think the APF name would be totally fine if the blurb mentioned movie posters, concert posters, advertising posters, etc... and there were sublinks to each of those sections (which might require different landing pages for each).

Anyway, as mentioned, I know any changes cost time and money.  I don't have time, but I do have money and I would be happy to donate to the cause (within reason of course).  I think it would only benefit us all to help grow the hobby and our community in particular. 

My $0.02.

[Bruce]

Harry, if each of us only donates 2 cents, that won't add up to a lot!

Seriously, put me down for being willing to contribute some cash for upgrades or improvements (and it can come from Bruce the collector of pressbooks, travel posters, 1939 World's Fair items, reverse painted glass frames, gga paperbacks, and more, and not from Bruce the owner of eMoviePoster.com, so that this will still be a forum by collectors for collectors!).

Bruce

[stewart boyle]

Spoken from the heart Bruce,but should the forum not also be about the collectors,the dealers,the novices,the curious etc?
No way a jibe at you bud

Stew

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

I'm happy to promote this forum - and have recruited a few members here - but the fact remains that "allposterforum" is a misnomer because this is a de facto movie poster forum.  

I think that one of the reasons that NS4 never really grew is because it has a long-winded, not particularly obvious name "Not Suitable For General Exhibition" and a TERRIBLE website address (http://stylec.yuku.com) Huh?

So right now this forum is like a little cool island that nobody can reach or find out about unless invited.  Wouldn't it be great if people could find us the way most of us found MPF - a Google search?

How about just a mirror site with a "movie poster name" to start?   I bought the domain "moviepostercollectors.com" a while back. I was going to use it for my own site but I'm happy to donate it to the cause.  Or really any other "movieposter______" name will suffice.

And just as importantly, this forum and NS4 should merge - much of the membership overlaps, the growth of both forums has stalled (because MPF is sucking up all the new hobby members from the Internet), and both forums need a more apropos name.

And of course we can help out if $$$ will be required.

[stewart boyle]

Mel,wouldn`t the mirror site need just as much promotion as APF ?

Stew

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Mel,wouldn`t the mirror site need just as much promotion as APF ?

Stew

Well, I'm not a website design guru like Holiday but I think a mirror site would facilitate a smoother transition to a "movieposter____" name.

[stewart boyle]

It just seems to me that no matter what a forum is called,it wont guarantee a higher position on Google.
Search ranking must surely be a cash revenue generator for the various search engines in use.

Stew

[Dr Hackenbush]

Why does this need to be some kind of popularity contest?  If you have a quality forum, which I believe APF is, people will find it eventually.  Let the forum grow at its own pace.  Not everything needs to be about instant gratification.  There are things worth waiting for.

As for donations, I'm all for this.  If there was some kind of "Donation" button or link, I'm sure many of us would be more than happy to send some funds to offset costs.

[stewart boyle]

Doc, for some reason i have started to read your posts in the style of Groucho. Much fun is had 


stew

[Harry Caul]

Why does this need to be some kind of popularity contest?  If you have a quality forum, which I believe APF is, people will find it eventually.

That is what I was trying to convey with my post... My thoughts of SEO were specifically so collectors of movie and other posters can find us. As long as we get on equal footing with MPF  I think the quality of our community and our content will speak for itself.

[CSM]

 
I think that one of the reasons that NS4 never really grew is because it has a long-winded, not particularly obvious name "Not Suitable For General Exhibition" and a TERRIBLE website address (http://stylec.yuku.com) Huh?

So right now this forum is like a little cool island that nobody can reach or find out about unless invited.  Wouldn't it be great if people could find us the way most of us found MPF - a Google search?

And just as importantly, this forum and NS4 should merge - much of the membership overlaps, the growth of both forums has stalled (because MPF is sucking up all the new hobby members from the Internet), and both forums need a more apropos name.

Mel, with all due respect - APF and NS4 will never merge (unless Ari or Phil gets sick of running the forum).  The two forums are disparate, with clearly disparate memberships.  Many of the most active posters on NS4 are not even members of APF.  NS4 has a unique charm and is a place where basically ANYTHING goes.  Many do not appreciate this and so choose to avoid it.  But those of us that do "get" it would not want it to change at all...

As others have said and I am sure Ari might chime in at some point - I seriously doubt the goal of NS4 has been or ever will be to have the largest member base or be considered THE poster forum.  That's just simply not what it is all about.  As for the web address it is simply a product of the forum host - YUKU.  I am not sure what it costs Ari to run the site but it is probably less than what it would cost to have a dedicated URL.  Again, bells and whistles are not what a discussion forum should be about.   

I would also loathe the day when those factors become the driving goal of APF!

I also do not necessarily feel more members is good for the forum - it really should be about quality people, quality collections and quality posts.  The numbers simply do not matter in the end...

In my opinion, this forum is doing just fine and I see no reason to change anything at all!

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

I was curious about the distribution of posts on this forum, so I ran a quick analysis in Excel.  We've made 16,505 posts in 10 months.  The top 10 posters are responsible for 54% of them, the next ten 24%, so the top 20 are responsible for 80% of the posts.  The top 50 posters are responsible for 95%. 

So I'd say that's pretty good, especially for a 10 month old forum.  I still think it would be ideal to consolidate all the forums into one advertising free forum to be even more viable in the long term.

[Zorba]

I now have more posts than corky-suck-my-ass. 

Mel is and has always been my favorite poster but I must echo thoughts of others as to the aint broke dont fix it idea. Though NS4 is full of great info and I do enjoy reading it on an almost every day basis I have NEVER posted there for a reason. I prefer the um lets say respect others have for each other here.

This is just a nice place to share a common love of stuff without having to worry about shit that has nothing to do with posters.

[stewart boyle]

Funny you should mention that Zorba,if i stay awake another hour,Carson gets dumped down to number ten "most time online"

Stew

[50s]

To me it is working fine... The top 20% of posters adding 80% of posts is probably the same in any forum.

Multiple forums offer different qualities. Consolidating might drive some people away. I know this forum is bordering more on the recently issued posters rather than the old eg 50's stuff for my liking, and posts I make here myself wont really change that. NS4 is concentrated more on my poster collecting style.

Are you Mel thinking of starting your own forum, taking members with you, running it your way? 

Raising the awareness of this forum I support.
First thing is to make this site more search engine friendly:
There are some forum 'mods' available to install eg for:
metadata: http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=230321.msg2538787#msg2538787
creating a sitemap: http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=755

and then get as many links to this forum as possible from popular sites (many will be free to get links added)
eg on, emovieposter - Bruce may even put it in a prominent position on the site if it is seen this forum can foster interest in poster collecting  ,
and maybe add to this list: http://www.vintagepostercollector.com/

[Matt]

Im a member of MPF NS4 but i hardly ever spend any time on them because i cannot stand being bombarded with ads while im trying to read.

What ads? I haven't seen ads there for a long time.

NS4 is the #1 website for viewing quality daybills.