Rolled poster has odd, fine texture on rear

[JCM]

Recently bought a rolled 1sh I've wanted for a while. Paid market price from a major auction site. It's in very nice condition (exactly as advertised) but I'm thinking it's been bleached/cleaned/pressed or otherwise treated somehow. Since I've never restored any of my posters I'm not really sure what I'm looking at.

There's an odd, ultra dry, fine texture on the all white rear of the poster. Like superfine sandpaper but not really abrasive is the best way to describe it.

First time I've encountered this. It has a unique scent to it as well. Different than any of my other 80s posters which all have that old paper smell.

[Harry Caul]

Have you enquired with the auction house? That should probably be your first step. Maybe they have another on hand for comparison or they’ve seen enough copies to tell?

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Like superfine sandpaper but not really abrasive is the best way to describe it.

like degraded glue or wax from the poster being mounted and then removed?

[Crazy Vick]

What psoter is it?]

[JCM]

like degraded glue or wax from the poster being mounted and then removed?

This was my first thought.

[erik1925]

Sounds like the description others have give to a poster that has been gel-backed (with your 'sandpaper texture' reference).

Neo had talked a bit about his posters done and the texture of the back of the poster:

http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,9805.msg191372.html#msg191372

I then posted a comment after being in touch with a collector (a non APF member) who had some things gel-backed:

http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,9805.msg193539.html#msg193539

And then Brandon's (Neo's) follow-up reply:

http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,9805.msg193547.html#msg193547

[Neo]

Good call there, Jefe.  JCM's description sounds similar to the gel backing results in my experience from Lumiere.


JCM, did you contact the seller and get any additional info. from them?

[MoviePosterBid.com]

in all likelihood, it was a wax. wax becomes very granular as it degrades and when that happens, the poster can begin to peel and later be removed with a little tender care, just by lifting it off the backing. Most commonly, it's a method used to back posters onto foamcore. The only reason you would know it was backed is because the remains of the degraded wax stays on the poster. I'll bet if it's a 1sh, the poster is now rather curled

[Neo]

in all likelihood, it was a wax. wax becomes very granular as it degrades and when that happens, the poster can begin to peel and later be removed with a little tender care, just by lifting it off the backing. Most commonly, it's a method used to back posters onto foamcore. The only reason you would know it was backed is because the remains of the degraded wax stays on the poster. I'll bet if it's a 1sh, the poster is now rather curled

Right, but JCM mentioned it has a "unique" scent, and if it was just the back of the poster, the front would likely still have the original scent of posters from the same time.  Also, some restoration processes make the poster feel "treated", such as how a gel backed piece has a more rigid feel due to being infused with gel.

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Right, but JCM mentioned it has a "unique" scent, and if it was just the back of the poster, the front would likely still have the original scent of posters from the same time.  Also, some restoration processes make the poster feel "treated", such as how a gel backed piece has a more rigid feel due to being infused with gel.

Brandon, I don't believe you can remove a gel-backed piece without it being a rigid piece of paper afterward. People like to say "backing is reversible" but it simply isn't true. The bathing & cleaning the poster changes the paper.

Wax mount doesn't do anything to the paper. It only leaves a gritty residue. I have a number of such posters here that were done in this method, including a Blade Runner 1sh.

[Neo]

Brandon, I don't believe you can remove a gel-backed piece without it being a rigid piece of paper afterward. People like to say "backing is reversible" but it simply isn't true. The bathing & cleaning the poster changes the paper.

Wax mount doesn't do anything to the paper. It only leaves a gritty residue. I have a number of such posters here that were done in this method, including a Blade Runner 1sh.

It seems like there is some possibility that the poster is gel-backed.  I was not implying that it had been removed from gel-backing.  That would be a complex "reversal" process.

And yes, if it were only a gritty residue on the back of the poster, the front would still have an 80s scent, which this poster apparently does not have.  Thus, the potential that it underwent some restoration work that would have removed that scent.

[erik1925]

And as Mario Cueva from Lumiere says on his site, re gel sizing/backing:

"Gelatin mounting is a new method where a poster is mounted and unmounted without any type of backing, yet allowing a base for the replacement of paper, color retouching, flattening, and cleaning. Our new technique can be applied to Lobby Cards, Rock posters and up to 40 x 60 posters."

http://www.lumiereposterrestoration.com/our-services.html

So posters that have gone thru this type of conservation/preservation are not backed to any kind of substrate, be it linen or otherwise.

[MoviePosterBid.com]

It seems like there is some possibility that the poster is gel-backed.  I was not implying that it had been removed from gel-backing.  That would be a complex "reversal" process.

And yes, if it were only a gritty residue on the back of the poster, the front would still have an 80s scent, which this poster apparently does not have.  Thus, the potential that it underwent some restoration work that would have removed that scent.

Brandon, when a poster is gel-backed it is first washed
when a poster is wax backed, they do nothing. They spread wax on the mount & then lay the poster down, using a squeegee to press. There is no restoration, it is just a mounting method. It is not permanent & doesn't do anything to the paper. Forget the scent. Wax neutralizes. Poster scent isn't permanent anyway

and yes Jeff - the gel essentially becomes part of the poster. If this poster is rolled, no way it was gel-backed. if the poster seems otherwise 'natural' as it appears it probably is (as JC made no mentions of anythuing other than the back) it is almost certainly a wax backing

[erik1925]

Brandon, when a poster is gel-backed it is first washed
when a poster is wax backed, they do nothing. They spread wax on the mount & then lay the poster down, using a squeegee to press. There is no restoration, it is just a mounting method. It is not permanent & doesn't do anything to the paper. Forget the scent. Wax neutralizes. Poster scent isn't permanent anyway

and yes Jeff - the gel essentially becomes part of the poster. If this poster is rolled, no way it was gel-backed. if the poster seems otherwise 'natural' as it appears it probably is (as JC made no mentions of anythuing other than the back) it is almost certainly a wax backing

Ive never read or heard about posters being mounted to foam core with wax. What kind of wax is used in this process? Is this process used more in framing stores? Or?

None of the restorers we have all discussed here have a "wax mounting process" mentioned on their websites, or on their list of available, backing options. So, I'm curious.

[Neo]

Rich, I see what you mean about the wax backing you're talking about.  Sounds like an old school method similar to dry mounting.

JCM's description is open to interpretation. It sounded to me like he could tell there was some sort of restoration (aka traditional conservation/preservation).  It seems you interpreted as some work was performed on it - nothing other than removing some substance off the back of it.

Regarding your comment about how gel resized posters can not be rolled - that is inaccurate.  I've had the process completed on some of the heaviest stock posters - the least easily rolled, and after the gel resizing, they were able to be rolled.  Although John at PM and Mario at Lumiere recommended to ship, store, etc. the posters flat, they both said they can be rolled. The 40x60 of mine that Lumiere did was less rigid than the one PM did, and it fit in a standard tube (for 40x60s) when I sent a few of them out for consignment.

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Is this process used more in framing stores? Or?

exactly one of the methods they use

they talk about it here
http://postermountain.blogspot.com/2014/01/on-dry-mounting.html

I actually have a wax mounting tool from 35 years ago. I used to do signage with it for conventions.
I tried finding some online, but couldn't

Rich, I see what you mean about the wax backing you're talking about.  Sounds like an old school method similar to dry mounting.

JCM's description is open to interpretation. It sounded to me like he could tell there was some sort of restoration (aka traditional conservation/preservation).  It seems you interpreted as some work was performed on it - nothing other than removing some substance off the back of it.

Regarding your comment about how gel resized posters can not be rolled - that is inaccurate.  I've had the process completed on some of the heaviest stock posters - the least easily rolled, and after the gel resizing, they were able to be rolled.  Although John at PM and Mario at Lumiere recommended to ship, store, etc. the posters flat, they both said they can be rolled. The 40x60 of mine that Lumiere did was less rigid than the one PM did, and it fit in a standard tube (for 40x60s) when I sent a few of them out for consignment.

every gel backed item I have had was rigid and to be honest, while cool, ultimately I don't care for the method

I would bet that if a gel backed 1/2, 30x40 etc was kept rolled for a long time, you would not be able to flatten it back out without cracking & damage

[erik1925]

exactly one of the methods they use

they talk about it here
http://postermountain.blogspot.com/2014/01/on-dry-mounting.html

I actually have a wax mounting tool from 35 years ago. I used to do signage with it for conventions.
I tried finding some online, but couldn't


every gel backed item I have had was rigid and to be honest, while cool, ultimately I don't care for the method

I would bet that if a gel backed 1/2, 30x40 etc was kept rolled for a long time, you would not be able to flatten it back out without cracking & damage

Thanks but that link from the PM blog is on dry mounting, using a spray adhesive or heat activated, dry mount paper, to attach to foam core. (Ive read that blog entry before, and like most of the PMountain entries, is very informative with great pix, too).

I was wanting to know about the wax mounting method you referred to, the kind of wax that is/was used, how it's done etc.

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Thanks but that link from the PM blog is on dry mounting, using a spray adhesive or heat activated, dry mount paper, to attach to foam core. (Ive read that blog entry before, and like most of the PMountain entries, is very informative with great pix, too).

I was wanting to know about the wax mounting method you referred to, the kind of wax that is/was used, how it's done etc.

it also mentions wax mounting, though I didn't read the full page to see if it got into details.

with wax, the poster is mounted directly. I have a whole bunch. when I shoot posters tomorrow, I'll see if I can remember to show these

and to be sure, they look in frames to be unmounted. there is no restoration. just mounting. you can't do restoration on wax

[Crazy Vick]

What poster is it dammit

[JCM]

Sorry guys; been super busy. It's a rolled Aliens (1986) international 1sh, non-advance.

Been fairly tough for me to track one down over the years, rolled and near mint. Which this one is.

But the texture is throwing me for sure.

[erik1925]

Is this the copy you picked up, by chance?

http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/archiveitem/11455054.html

[JCM]

Yes it is.

[erik1925]

You should email and ask them. Maybe they can give you some info/insight about the texture you are feeling on the back of the poster.

[erik1925]

Another copy is being offered on ebay, with no mention of any backside texture or "sandiness."

$400.00 / OBO

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Original-1986-ALIENS-ONE-SHEET-MOVIE-POSTER-SIGORNEY-WEAVER-RECALLED/352357360641?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649