The Importance of Info Printed on a Poster's Border

[erik1925]

I was looking thru my tracked items on HA's upcoming auction, and one item thats doing well, is the 1949 RR insert for Casablanca.

( https://movieposters.ha.com/itm/academy-award-winner/casablanca-warner-brothers-r-1949-insert-14-x-36-/a/7178-86158.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515) Currently at $8K, it may go higher or even much higher. 



So i decided to see how this particular item had done in the past. It turns out that this '49 RR insert is a first for HA, so I then checked on emp.

emp shows a sale of a 1949RR insert back in 2003. It sold for $713.00 (http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/archiveitem/6685049.html). But I noticed right away that the poster shown was not the same as that being offered at HA. It's different. In reading the emp description, it's stated that all the borders were trimmed off, and that the restorer opted to not replace them:



emp had sold no others like this, so I then went back to HA to do a general search for other CASA inserts in their data base. I discovered that the one auctioned at emp is not a 1949RR (which was re-released by WB) but is actually the insert for the 1956 RR, which was re-released by Dominant Pictures Corp, as can be seen at the bottom, center edge of the poster.

When the bottom border was trimmed off, the vital NSS info was trimmed away, too, leaving just the distributor name. The below detail image of the NSS info is from one of the copies that HA sold:



HA has sold 4 of these '56rr inserts in the past, with prices ranging from $191-286.00:

https://movieposters.ha.com/c/search-results.zx?N=54+790+231&Ntk=SI_Titles&Nty=1&Ntt=casablanca+insert+(R-1956)&limitTo=all&ic4=KeywordSearch-A-K-071316

Just shows how important it is to have a poster without missing borders, where important info may lie. Perhaps this insert sold for what it did, even back in 2003, because the winning bidder also thought he/she was getting a '49RR, and not a "later model."

[crowzilla]

Hmm, I wonder if Bruce will just say there is conflicting information and delete the auction rather than admit he made a mistake again?

[okiehawker]

Hmm, I wonder if Bruce will just say there is conflicting information and delete the auction rather than admit he made a mistake again?

This seems like you are baiting Bruce, Crowzilla. It's just bad manners.  I've been a member of APF for a few months and collecting for several decades.  I've read some of the history on APF of this baiting and hurt feelings all around. It's not cool.  What is cool is your knowledge of the hobby and awesome collection.  I really think you are better than this, eh?     Okie

[crowzilla]

This seems like you are baiting Bruce, Crowzilla. ...It's not cool...  What is cool is your knowledge of the hobby...  Okie

Thanks for the nice words Okie, they are appreciated. It probably is a little baiting, maybe if Bruce felt I also had cool knowledge of the hobby he would have updated his reprint auction for what it is (as he has done in every other case and talks about endlessly), especially after getting verification from another Japanese poster expert instead of simply deleting all reference to it.
I've praised Bruce on here many, many times, but I also call out reprints when I see them being sold as originals.

[okiehawker]

Thanks for the nice words Okie, they are appreciated. It probably is a little baiting, maybe if Bruce felt I also had cool knowledge of the hobby he would have updated his reprint auction for what it is (as he has done in every other case and talks about endlessly), especially after getting verification from another Japanese poster expert instead of simply deleting all reference to it.
I've praised Bruce on here many, many times, but I also call out reprints when I see them being sold as originals.

Hi Crowzilla,  I want to thank you up front for your expertise.  I have learned much from your posts.  Though, I feel in this case you risk your original very honorable factual message on Japanese posters by the continued bringing up of the fact of your expertise, and your frustration on how a business decision maker used your expertise.  You are an expert regardless of how a decision maker ultimately uses your expert advice/consultation.  The great positive outcome is you provided valuable knowledge freely and it was and still can be used to make more informed decisions.  My best, Okie

[crowzilla]

Hi Crowzilla,  I want to thank you up front for your expertise.  I have learned much from your posts.  Though, I feel in this case you risk your original very honorable factual message on Japanese posters by the continued bringing up of the fact of your expertise, and your frustration on how a business decision maker used your expertise.  You are an expert regardless of how a decision maker ultimately uses your expert advice/consultation.  The great positive outcome is you provided valuable knowledge freely and it was and still can be used to make more informed decisions.  My best, Okie

Okie,
I again thank you for your kind words.
The thing is, the way Bruce promotes Emovieposter is as not only a great place to buy posters (it is), but as a vast repository of poster information (which it sometimes is). This works due to not only the vast knowledge that Bruce has acquired in his many years of collecting, but thanks to experts across the globe coming together to educate others and entrusting Bruce with their knowledge in the hopes that he will disseminate it so all can learn. It's kind of like a Borg collective, and Bruce asks for help with details on the posters he is selling weekly. I've sent in tons of corrections and the way it usually works is that a short time later you get a thank you from a staff member and you see the auction updated. Very rarely do you see the name of a person who submitted info (and you shouldn't in most cases) and there is no compensation, so people continue to submit not for glory, but to help the hobby. 
It makes no sense that when Bruce is presented with the facts of why a given poster is a reprint his answer is to delete the auction itself. I don't believe he has done that in any other instance where he has sold a reprint or a misdescribed poster.
It's still a valid sale, so keep the auction in your archive and present the information to help other collectors learn the difference between the actual theatrical poster and the reprint.

I do see that EMP has quietly changed the description of the Casablanca poster that started this thread. They didn't delete the result, it was simply updated to correct information (it's a totally different argument whether or not the archive should note the description has changed to let people decide if a given price was (partially) based on an incorrect auction listing).

[okiehawker]

Okie,
I again thank you for your kind words.
The thing is, the way Bruce promotes Emovieposter is as not only a great place to buy posters (it is), but as a vast repository of poster information (which it sometimes is). This works due to not only the vast knowledge that Bruce has acquired in his many years of collecting, but thanks to experts across the globe coming together to educate others and entrusting Bruce with their knowledge in the hopes that he will disseminate it so all can learn. It's kind of like a Borg collective, and Bruce asks for help with details on the posters he is selling weekly. I've sent in tons of corrections and the way it usually works is that a short time later you get a thank you from a staff member and you see the auction updated. Very rarely do you see the name of a person who submitted info (and you shouldn't in most cases) and there is no compensation, so people continue to submit not for glory, but to help the hobby. 
It makes no sense that when Bruce is presented with the facts of why a given poster is a reprint his answer is to delete the auction itself. I don't believe he has done that in any other instance where he has sold a reprint or a misdescribed poster.
It's still a valid sale, so keep the auction in your archive and present the information to help other collectors learn the difference between the actual theatrical poster and the reprint.

I do see that EMP has quietly changed the description of the Casablanca poster that started this thread. They didn't delete the result, it was simply updated to correct information (it's a totally different argument whether or not the archive should note the description has changed to let people decide if a given price was (partially) based on an incorrect auction listing).

Hi Crowzilla,

I'm sorry, I was hoping I could convince you to end this particular quest.  Your energy on it is too strong for my written forum skills it seems.  Maybe my verbal skills would be more persuasive over some brew and a nice curry!?  I admire your energy!  Okie

[crowzilla]

I'm sorry, I was hoping I could convince you to end this particular quest.  Your energy on it is too strong for my written forum skills it seems.  Maybe my verbal skills would be more persuasive over some brew and a nice curry!?  I admire your energy!  Okie

 

The quest for accurate information will never end. Hopefully next time it will be someone else so you don't think I'm picking on poor ole Bruce

[Simes]

Just shows how important it is to have a poster without missing borders, where important info may lie. Perhaps this insert sold for what it did, even back in 2003, because the winning bidder also thought he/she was getting a '49RR, and not a "later model."

Or, WITH the borders...?

[erik1925]

Or, WITH the borders...?

That, too. 

[redman]

what does the "3" mean on this 1sheet? i am guessing it has been painted on (the yellow stuff) also?
 

[redman]

[cabmangray]

Hard to tell what the yellow is. Maybe a slight overprinting when the poster was made? The 3 could a numbered copy from a studio warehouse. Possibly a stack of them were kept as reference and numbered so studio personnel could keep track of them? It wasn't part of the printing process; it looks like a rubber stamp of some kind.

[erik1925]

what does the "3" mean on this 1sheet? i am guessing it has been painted on (the yellow stuff) also?
 

And what movie poster is this on? That might help, too, knowing what flicker this poster is from.

The yellow at the bottom almost looks like a continuation of the hem of the yellow dress? above it (if its even a dress, that is).

Show us the entire poster.

[okiehawker]

And what movie poster is this on? That might help, too, knowing what flicker this poster is from.

The yellow at the bottom almost looks like a continuation of the hem of the yellow dress? above it (if its even a dress, that is).

Show us the entire poster.

I guess Double Indemnity!   Okie

[erik1925]

I guess Double Indemnity!   Okie

I think we have a winner! 

[redman]

okie got good eyes
i didn't post full poster as it is currently for sale - read that others wet themselves with anxiety if this is done

[redman]

i thought it had been painted because i had been checking it against a heritage sale but i've just realised that the heritage one probably had its borders airbrushed?


(heritage on left)

anyone seen the "3" on other 4ts 1sheets?

[okiehawker]

okie got good eyes
i didn't post full poster as it is currently for sale - read that others wet themselves with anxiety if this is done

I thought I had won a prize, and low it was the dreaded "outing" no-prize!  Dagnabbit!  Okie

[redman]

this was the poster



sold today £2600 (hammer)
estimate was £400-£600

it was framed by a VERY good place (from what i have read)