Author Topic: Newbie advice storage advice.  (Read 16408 times)

boxdog

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Newbie advice storage advice.
« on: March 09, 2017, 06:31:50 AM »
Hi folks, im new to knowing how to protect my items.i have some spanish lobby cards,more paper than card and there 14"x 10". Any advice for best way to protect them.They wont be wall mounted but will be taken out to look at. Any advice on what and where i purchase something?im in u.k.thanks alot.paul

Offline jayn_j

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Re: Newbie advice storage advice.
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2017, 08:35:49 AM »
Hi Boxdog, and welcome to the forum.  Actually, I have several answers, depending on your goals.

I keep my lobby cards in polypropylene sleeves.  I get mine from Bags Unlimited here in the US.  I have a few recent Spanish sets, and agree that they are on thinner paper.  When I have received Spanish sets, they are generally in a poly sleeve that is fitted to the Spanish card.  On these thinner cards, I always make sure I place an acid free backing board in the sleeve with them.

I have a lot of lobbies, so I keep them in plastic storage tubs.  Get a tub that allows you to store the card vertically.  Many are not tall enough.

If you only plan on collecting a few cards, you might want to consider placing them in an album.  The Pioneer album with the 'magnetic' page inserts is what I use.
Here are some photos




The pages aren't really magnetic.  The backing material is slightly sticky, but ph balanced.  You place the poster on the backing and then smooth the acetate cover over it.  I have had posters in albums for 20 years with no damage.  I find they make nice coffee table books.

Whatever you choose, best of luck and happy collecting.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 08:37:47 AM by jayn_j »
-Jay-

Offline erik1925

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Re: Newbie advice storage advice.
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2017, 12:34:51 PM »
Jay, here's hoping that the Pioneer album and its design has come a long way from this type of photo album my parents got to place family photos inside.

This was many years ago, maybe the early to mid 1980s. As you describe, each page has a smooth acetate sheet over each solid "page" of the album, that was slightly "tacky." One would peel the clear sheet back, place the photos, and then smooth the acetate back over, holding the pics in place.

After all these years, we found that many of the photos had become permanently stuck to that tacky surface, causing damage to the back of the pics ( we needed to remove a good number to use on some family photo boards for a function recently). Again, we are talking decades since the pics were placed in these albums, and that's why I was asking (and hoping) that new versions of these types of albums have improved. Even though placed in these albums long ago, those slightly tacky surfaces should not have eventually almost "glued" the photos to them.

The last thing I'd want would be for the backs of vintage LC to get stuck on the pages, causing the same kind paper loss damage, should one want to remove them for any reason.


-Jeff

Offline jayn_j

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Re: Newbie advice storage advice.
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2017, 02:03:20 PM »
I recently bought a new album to display the musical cards I have been uploading.  Several of the cards were in the previous album.  I put that one together around 2001.  I had no problems removing cards from that album to scan and put in the new one.

I intend to redo the entire first album in the next couple of weeks and will report if any problems arise.
-Jay-

Offline erik1925

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Re: Newbie advice storage advice.
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2017, 02:05:20 PM »
Im sure the age of my parents' albums has something to do with it, but still, it was a shock to see how many pix required careful peeling to get them off of these pages without damaging them if at all possible.

So it would be just as bad if this happened to someone who used this type of album as permanent LC storage, only to find the same 'sticking issue' many years later. That would be an "UGH" moment, for sure.  :(
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 02:32:08 PM by erik1925 »


-Jeff

Online marklawd

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Re: Newbie advice storage advice.
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2017, 02:53:55 PM »
Welcome to the forum Paul. My preferred storage option for lobby cards is to use individual archival polyester sleeves, each set placed in a slightly larger one. You can get these from Preservation Equipment Ltd in the UK.

Mark

Offline jayn_j

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Re: Newbie advice storage advice.
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2017, 03:12:03 PM »
Im sure the age of my parents' albums has something to do with it, but still, it was a shock to see how many pix required careful peeling to get them off of these pages without damaging them if at all possible.

So it would be just as bad if this happened to someone who used this type of album as permanent LC storage, only to find the same 'sticking issue' many years later. That would be an "UGH" moment, for sure.  :(

So, nevermind then.  Jeff has spoken and they are crapola.
Since no alternative was presented, I guess it is better to hide them away in a box and never look at them again.   :(
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 03:14:25 PM by jayn_j »
-Jay-

Offline jayn_j

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Re: Newbie advice storage advice.
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2017, 03:21:18 PM »
Welcome to the forum Paul. My preferred storage option for lobby cards is to use individual archival polyester sleeves, each set placed in a slightly larger one. You can get these from Preservation Equipment Ltd in the UK.

Mark

My opinion would be that this is very dependent on the value of the cards and how much you are handling them.  Otherwise, you will be spending $80 for sleeves to store a $40 LCS.  This makes sense if they are being handled a lot and if they have significant value.  Otherwise 8 cards placed in a reasonable sleeve with a good backing board should be more than sufficient.

I apologize if this is gruff.  Been a tough week and this thread isn't making me feel better.  Was just trying to be helpful.
-Jay-

Offline erik1925

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Re: Newbie advice storage advice.
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2017, 03:27:29 PM »
So, nevermind then.  Jeff has spoken and they are crapola.
Since no alternative was presented, I guess it is better to hide them away in a box and never look at them again.   :(

I never said they were crapola, Jay.

If you look at my first post, I was asking and hoping that maybe they had been made better then back then, so that this issue wouldnt happen, down the road with other folks.

I was commenting on a similar product that you used and described. With the same design.

Is there a problem with offering/explaining a potential long term storage issue?  I don't think so. And as I also explained, this happened with photos being stored in this kind of album from many years ago.

« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 03:38:10 PM by erik1925 »


-Jeff

Offline jayn_j

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Re: Newbie advice storage advice.
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2017, 03:52:46 PM »
I never said they were crapola, Jay.

If you look at my first post, I was asking and hoping that maybe they had been made better then back then, so that this issue wouldnt happen, down the road with other folks.

I was commenting on a similar product that you used and described. With the same design.

Is there a problem with offering/explaining a potential long term storage issue?  I don't think so. And as I also explained, this happened with photos being stored in this kind of album from many years ago.

Fair enough, but you are asking that I prove the design has been improved.  I doubt that I can reasonably do that.  I reported that I didn't have an issue with cards that had been stored for about 15 years, but the only ways I can see to ensure it for the current design is to either wait 30 years, or call the company and speak to their R&D, if any.  I expect that the design is similar, but the sticky stuff may (or may not) have evolved.

What I can say is that when I was a kid and my parents had the portrait studio, we didn't use this style album for wedding albums.  We used pretty much the same cover, but the inserts were an acetate sleeve with a hardboard center.  I cannot find that style in anything larger than 5x7".  In 11x14, the magnetic "sticky" style seems to be the only option.  There actually is another option with the bare scrapbook pages and adhesive corner tabs, but I don't think that is viable because the cards are not protected on the surface
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 03:56:09 PM by jayn_j »
-Jay-

Offline erik1925

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Re: Newbie advice storage advice.
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2017, 04:04:56 PM »
Fair enough, but you are asking that I prove the design has been improved.  I doubt that I can reasonably do that.  I reported that I didn't have an issue with cards that had been stored for about 15 years, but the only ways I can see to ensure it for the current design is to either wait 30 years, or call the company and speak to their R&D, if any.  I expect that the design is similar, but the sticky stuff may (or may not) have evolved.

What I can say is that when I was a kid and my parents had the portrait studio, we didn't use this style album for wedding albums.  We used pretty much the same cover, but the inserts were an acetate sleeve with a hardboard center.  I cannot find that style in anything larger than 5x7".  In 11x14, the magnetic "sticky" style seems to be the only option.  There actually is another option with the bare scrapbook pages and adhesive corner tabs, but I don't think that is viable because the cards are not protected on the surface

Just to be clear, I didnt ask you to prove anything about their design. I never said that. I said that I hoped this general style of album, (brand name aside) had maybe been improved (ie changed), so that the tacky card side didnt become more permanent, over time, and adhere more fully as we had experienced at home with our family photos.

I was simply offering the experience we had with these albums. Yes, the pics were placed within them 30+ years ago. But that's beside the point. Lastly, I never said (or was even suggesting) that these were/are bad or crap or garbage.

People can store however they'd like. But like framing or other types of storage experiences, both good and bad, that members have commented on, I wanted to make an observation about these, is all.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 04:07:04 PM by erik1925 »


-Jeff

Offline jayn_j

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Re: Newbie advice storage advice.
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2017, 04:11:00 PM »
Yeah, probably overreacting.  Definitely questioning.  I have several lobbies in the new album that I paid over $500/ea for, so I am now questioning myself more than anything.
-Jay-

boxdog

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Re: Newbie advice storage advice.
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2017, 04:27:28 PM »
Thank you for the replies. notworthy.gif

Online marklawd

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Re: Newbie advice storage advice.
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2017, 05:37:00 AM »
My opinion would be that this is very dependent on the value of the cards and how much you are handling them.  Otherwise, you will be spending $80 for sleeves to store a $40 LCS.  This makes sense if they are being handled a lot and if they have significant value.  Otherwise 8 cards placed in a reasonable sleeve with a good backing board should be more than sufficient.

Yes, exactly. Less valuable sets go together within one sleeve and more valuable lobbies within individual sleeves. I don't bother with boards.

Mark

Offline jayn_j

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Re: Newbie advice storage advice.
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2017, 11:45:29 AM »
Jay, here's hoping that the Pioneer album and its design has come a long way from this type of photo album my parents got to place family photos inside.

This was many years ago, maybe the early to mid 1980s. As you describe, each page has a smooth acetate sheet over each solid "page" of the album, that was slightly "tacky." One would peel the clear sheet back, place the photos, and then smooth the acetate back over, holding the pics in place.

After all these years, we found that many of the photos had become permanently stuck to that tacky surface, causing damage to the back of the pics ( we needed to remove a good number to use on some family photo boards for a function recently). Again, we are talking decades since the pics were placed in these albums, and that's why I was asking (and hoping) that new versions of these types of albums have improved. Even though placed in these albums long ago, those slightly tacky surfaces should not have eventually almost "glued" the photos to them.

The last thing I'd want would be for the backs of vintage LC to get stuck on the pages, causing the same kind paper loss damage, should one want to remove them for any reason.

I went back to that original album last night and examined all the pages.  I found some results that were very interesting.  This album contained posters from several eras, from the early 40 up to the early 90s.  It also contained some pages of 8x10 stills from the 1950 up to the late 1990s.  Each of these eras had a different amount of stickiness.

Early posters, those with the relatively coarse paper stock and matte finish, were very easy to remove.  The edges actually lifted when the acetate cover was removed and no force was required.  The more modern lobbies from the 80s and 90s with the glossy face and the smoother back were attached more tightly.  I had to get a fingernail underneath and carefully lift them.  The level of stickiness was about what I expected.

Early stills on paper photo stock were about the same as early lobby cards.  They jumped right off the page.  However, the newer stills with the polycarbonate stock were held rather tightly They required very careful handling to get them removed, and a couple of times, gently working them off with the edge of a kitchen knife.

My father wrote a series of articles for Modern Photography in 1978 on the characteristics of the new RC paper.  This was the conversion from paper stock to the polycarbonate based stock and that article does a pretty good job of pinning the time of the conversion.

Based on my small sample size of about 50 pages in a single album, I'd make the following tentative conclusions.  The magnetic photo album is tentatively OK for lobby cards up to around 1975.  It seems to be OK for lobby cards well into the 1990s, although the effort to remove will be higher.  It is also OK for stills and photographs that use a paper based stock.

I would not recommend this album for later lobby cards, especially those foreign cards printed on thin stock.  I also would not recommend it for newer photographs using modern photo paper (anything produced after 1977).  It is easy to distinguish newer RC paper from the earlier paper based stock.  The paper based stock is a bit rough and your finger will grab into it a bit.  It is totally flat matte to the eye.  The RC paper is shinier and your finger will easily run across it.  The paper stock will absorb water a bit, while water will bead up on the newer RC stock.

Jeff, I apologize for letting the topic drift so far from Boxdog's request.  You might want to consider merging the album comments with my earlier thread on this album
-Jay-

Offline jayn_j

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Re: Newbie advice storage advice.
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2017, 12:02:27 PM »
This is the earlier thread on the albums I was thinking of
http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,5429.25.html
-Jay-

boxdog

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Re: Newbie advice storage advice.
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2017, 08:08:24 AM »
ok.im looking for a sleeve to protect 10"x14" paper Spanish lobby cards.will these be good to buy?id buy the box too if the sleeves are good.thoughts please before I dive in. http://www.arrowfile.com/a3-archival-box-pocket-sleeves-pk-of-10-psa3142

Offline jayn_j

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Re: Newbie advice storage advice.
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2018, 06:20:31 PM »
I owe Jeff an apology for this earlier conversation on the Pioneer Album. 

Last week I went back and tried to remove a lobby card from the newer album.  It has been about a year since I built it, and the cards are stuck pretty firmly.  I'll get them out, but it will take some careful effort.  Interestingly, the older album did not have any issues.

So, I'm sorry for reacting as I did.

(This particular album has 100 cards :( )
-Jay-

Offline erik1925

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Re: Newbie advice storage advice.
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2018, 06:41:33 PM »
All good, Jay. I dont even recall your reaction, not having read it in a long while.

cheers


-Jeff

Offline mattsw

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Re: Newbie advice storage advice.
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2018, 07:12:01 PM »

I have a lot of lobbies, so I keep them in plastic storage tubs.  Get a tub that allows you to store the card vertically.  Many are not tall enough.


I have a fairly sizeable collection of lobby cards.  I store my cards in 11x14 Itoya books.  Each book holds 48 cards (back to back with archival paper separating them and no sticky surface.  I keep all of my cards in books and keep them on a table.  I am interested in the comment of keeping them vertical.  I have my books laying flat.  Is that bad?

Offline jayn_j

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Re: Newbie advice storage advice.
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2018, 08:07:15 PM »
I have a fairly sizeable collection of lobby cards.  I store my cards in 11x14 Itoya books.  Each book holds 48 cards (back to back with archival paper separating them and no sticky surface.  I keep all of my cards in books and keep them on a table.  I am interested in the comment of keeping them vertical.  I have my books laying flat.  Is that bad?

Not really.  The purpose in having them vertical in the tubs is so I can rifle through them and pick out a particular set.  It also makes it simpler to keep them sorted.
-Jay-