Author Topic: Will Emovieposter's Record Low Auction Results continue?  (Read 15380 times)

Offline crowzilla

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Will Emovieposter's Record Low Auction Results continue?
« on: November 03, 2017, 02:39:10 PM »
went to see Thor last night (lots of fun btw) and totally forgot about part 1 of EMP's Halloween auctions and was checking results today and pretty much did a double take when I looked at them, starting with the top two pieces in the auction:

Son of Kong one-sheet $7750  (they note they previously sold a copy more than a decade ago for over $17,000!, and I believe this to be a record low for the title/format).
Mummy's Hand one-sheet $6750 (again they note that their previous copy sold for over $15,000 a decade ago)

A few others jump out:

Invasion of the Body Snatchers half sheet $2255 (this might be a 25-year low for this piece)
Hold That Ghost one-sheet $1490 - another record low for this seller on the title/format.
Dracula's Daughter 3-sheet $754
Creature From the Black Lagoon Half-sheet $2500 (have to go back to 1992 to find one that they sold cheaper)
I stopped looking after the first page, but wouldn't be surprised to find more examples.

Maybe it's just classic horror/sci-fi that is dead, as I did notice some newer film results seem to be mixed in the top results when sorting by price.
Are people not collecting 30s-50s sci-fi/horror anymore?  It will be interesting to see if this trend continues throughout the rest of their upcoming auctions. 
I wonder if these low results will have a negative impact on the incredible material Heritage has in their upcoming auction?
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Offline wonka

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Re: Will Emovieposter's Record Low Auction Results continue?
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2017, 02:44:44 PM »
I have a theory or two but will wait for Bruce to chime in. Does he still post here?
"Ben. His name is Ben. But he's a Celtic fan, so Asshole will do too." -Thierry

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Offline eatbrie

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Re: Will Emovieposter's Record Low Auction Results continue?
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2017, 02:52:01 PM »
went to see Thor last night (lots of fun btw) and totally forgot about part 1 of EMP's Halloween auctions and was checking results today and pretty much did a double take when I looked at them, starting with the top two pieces in the auction:

Son of Kong one-sheet $7750  (they note they previously sold a copy more than a decade ago for over $17,000!, and I believe this to be a record low for the title/format).
Mummy's Hand one-sheet $6750 (again they note that their previous copy sold for over $15,000 a decade ago)

A few others jump out:

Invasion of the Body Snatchers half sheet $2255 (this might be a 25-year low for this piece)
Hold That Ghost one-sheet $1490 - another record low for this seller on the title/format.
Dracula's Daughter 3-sheet $754
Creature From the Black Lagoon Half-sheet $2500 (have to go back to 1992 to find one that they sold cheaper)
I stopped looking after the first page, but wouldn't be surprised to find more examples.

Maybe it's just classic horror/sci-fi that is dead, as I did notice some newer film results seem to be mixed in the top results when sorting by price.
Are people not collecting 30s-50s sci-fi/horror anymore?  It will be interesting to see if this trend continues throughout the rest of their upcoming auctions. 
I wonder if these low results will have a negative impact on the incredible material Heritage has in their upcoming auction?

Trends change.  A lot of newer collectors, myself included, have no interest for this kind of material.  I don't care for the movies and the posters do no't appeal to me aesthetically.  I'm much more interested in the 50s and 60s, probably because it's closer to me in time and accessible. 

I see the same trend in fine art.  XIX Century art has lost a lot of its shine, its panache, while XX Century is booming.  Of course, the masters will always be masters and their work will always be worth a lot, but generally speaking, people are turning away from it to get something fresher. 

I assume the same for movie posters.  The great movies (and their posters) will always sell, and there will always be crazy bidding wars no one expected, but the appeal will diminish over time, also because people don't have access to these B&W movies anymore, but can still watch a lot of 50s color flicks.

T
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 02:55:15 PM by eatbrie »
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Re: Will Emovieposter's Record Low Auction Results continue?
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2017, 03:04:46 PM »
I landed a "very good" IOTBS for $1,050, well below what I was expecting.

Not sure what's going on, but at minimum it should have been held before Halloween not after. Everybody's burned out on horror jollies at 12:01 Nov. 1.

 

Offline JCM

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Re: Will Emovieposter's Record Low Auction Results continue?
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2017, 05:52:45 PM »
Speaking personally, I have zero interest in any of those titles you listed. I wouldn't pay $50 for any of them because they mean nothing to me.

And in the same auction, a backed Halloween II sold for $800+. That's 10x what a mint rolled copy goes for.

I think T is right; it has less to do with EMP and depends on a variety of other things.

Offline Crazy Vick

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Re: Will Emovieposter's Record Low Auction Results continue?
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2017, 06:00:48 PM »
You know what went up?  My gas bill, water bill, property tax bill etc..

First of all I think bruce is on track to be on par with his best years.  Secondly, aside from HA (which is a glitch in the matrix bc not your typical poster auction site) I think everything is low, ebay sales, etc, bet Rich would say the same, and Kirby who's now aceepting "best offers" on all his paper as per his post last week.

I don't think its fair to single out emp.  Cost of life is going up everything else going down. Hell they're probably going to stop making movies altogether soon as no one is going out to the cinema anymore.
 I've said it before and I'll say it again we need to grow the hobby and ensure our slice of the pie remains a large one.  What happens when emp closes shop? Or can you imagine if beanie babies become huge again we are all fucked. 


Offline Damomac

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Re: Will Emovieposter's Record Low Auction Results continue?
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2017, 07:36:04 PM »
I am in a similar position as T, I am more interested in owning a Shawshank Redemption or Back to the future rolled than some old movie material that i haven't seen which holds no interest to me. Most younger collectors i know collect the era in which they grew up with for me thats the 80s onwards. If i am to spend large amounts on posters it will be on a ET bike over the moon, Matrix International lighting, Reservoir dogs Cannes Festival or a Pulp Fiction recalled not King Kong from the 40s. Just because i can afford the old stuff doesn't mean i want to own it.

This era (80s) material sells very well on EMP and as shown by the massive increase in value for Star Wars material over the last 10 years that the younger generation of collectors will spend there money in this era rather than 40s style material. Halloween Australian sold for a record $1,500 - EMP has been getting some wonderful returns for people who are selling 70s and 80s onwards material

Your example of Son of Kong which sold for 7000k or whatever i wouldn't pay $500 for it, it holds zero interest don't care if its rare. Haven't seen the movie never will

My 2 cents
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 08:11:20 PM by Damomac »
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Offline eatbrie

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Re: Will Emovieposter's Record Low Auction Results continue?
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2017, 07:57:02 PM »
Haven't seen the movie never will

For someone like me who ONLY collects posters from movies I have seen, this is key.  A lot of the 20s-30s to 1940 movies are impossible to see.  Video clubs do not exist anymore and network/cable TV will not program such movies for 1) lack of audience, 2) because they do not have access to a clean copy or 2) because the movie itself doesn't exist anymore.  I think accessibility is key.  Lots of older folks had access to these movies in the 70s and 80s.  Not anymore.  The 40s, 50s and 60s can still be seen on AMC regularly and are much easier to relate to.  The movies are in color and the quality still works on large screen TVs.  Like I said, a classic will always be a classic, King Kong, Dracula, Fritz Lang's M will always sell because they are great movies, regardless of their time period, but a lot of those 30s horror films were not good to begin with.

T
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Offline eatbrie

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Re: Will Emovieposter's Record Low Auction Results continue?
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2017, 07:58:34 PM »
Great thread, btw.

T
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Offline archstanton

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Re: Will Emovieposter's Record Low Auction Results continue?
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2017, 09:17:33 PM »
I think Bruce and Co. do a great job, but I do agree that having a Halloween/Horror themed auction so late in October (even bleeding into November) is a mistake.  Would be better off at the beginning of October when the horror hounds are hungry.  By the time you get your posters it's half way through November and the spooky vibe of October has faded to pumpkin pie and Bing Crosby.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 09:21:46 PM by archstanton »

Offline Antoine1973

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Re: Will Emovieposter's Record Low Auction Results continue?
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2017, 09:18:10 PM »
I guess I must be the exception around here because at 44, I'm still a relatively young movie poster collector who grew up watching a lot of movies in the 1980s and early 1990s, yet I have very little interest in buying posters from those eras.  I mostly collect horror and sci-fi-fi paper from earlier periods (namely 1930s through 1960s, well before I was even born), because posters from those decades tend to be more appealing to me aesthetically.  Whether I have seen the films themselves, or the inherent quality of those movies is usually irrelevant to me, as some of the best posters (particularly from the 1950s, such as "Attack of the 50 Ft. Woman", "Wasp Woman" and "Invasion of the Saucer-Men") are for rather terrible movies (some of which can still be enjoyable in a so-bad-they're-good way).  As a side note, I'm not sure I agree that 1930s and 1940s movies are "impossible to see", at least certainly not in the case of the Universal films, which are all available on DVDs or via streaming.  The vast majority of the films in the first part of EMP Halloween auction can all be seen very easily, so I don't think the low results can be explained by lack of accessibility. 

The annual Halloween EMP auction is therefore right up my alley, yet I only purchased one item ("The Land Unknown" 3-sheet) last night.  The reason why I didn't bid on the big ticket items in yesterday' sale was either because I already own a copy for a lot of them (such as "The Invisible Man Returns" OS or "Attack of the 50 Ft Woman" insert), or in the case of the OS, because they were all on linen (in the case of "Son of Kong" and "House of Dracula"), and I do not collect linen-backed OS.  I suspect other collectors didn't participate in that auction for the same reasons.

Offline Antoine1973

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Re: Will Emovieposter's Record Low Auction Results continue?
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2017, 09:23:21 PM »
Errata from my previous post: "...because they were all on linen (in the case of "Son of Kong" and "House of Dracula")..."  I meant to write "The Mummy's Hand" instead of "House of Dracula", I'm not sure what happened here!  Sorry, I must be more tired than I realized...

Offline ladeda

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Re: Will Emovieposter's Record Low Auction Results continue?
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2017, 09:24:11 PM »
If this is an actual trend, it's welcomed! Let us peasants in on the action.



Offline eatbrie

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Re: Will Emovieposter's Record Low Auction Results continue?
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2017, 10:51:18 PM »
The reason why I didn't bid on the big ticket items in yesterday' sale was either because I already own a copy for a lot of them (such as "The Invisible Man Returns" OS or "Attack of the 50 Ft Woman" insert), or in the case of the OS, because they were all on linen (in the case of "Son of Kong" and "House of Dracula"), and I do not collect linen-backed OS.  I suspect other collectors didn't participate in that auction for the same reasons.

That, I agree with.  Even if I had wanted any of the posters mentioned (I did not), I would have not bought them for this specific reason.

T
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Offline erik1925

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Re: Will Emovieposter's Record Low Auction Results continue?
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2017, 10:56:33 PM »
I guess I must be the exception around here because at 44, I'm still a relatively young movie poster collector who grew up watching a lot of movies in the 1980s and early 1990s, yet I have very little interest in buying posters from those eras.  I mostly collect horror and sci-fi-fi paper from earlier periods (namely 1930s through 1960s, well before I was even born), because posters from those decades tend to be more appealing to me aesthetically.  Whether I have seen the films themselves, or the inherent quality of those movies is usually irrelevant to me, as some of the best posters (particularly from the 1950s, such as "Attack of the 50 Ft. Woman", "Wasp Woman" and "Invasion of the Saucer-Men") are for rather terrible movies (some of which can still be enjoyable in a so-bad-they're-good way).  As a side note, I'm not sure I agree that 1930s and 1940s movies are "impossible to see", at least certainly not in the case of the Universal films, which are all available on DVDs or via streaming.  The vast majority of the films in the first part of EMP Halloween auction can all be seen very easily, so I don't think the low results can be explained by lack of accessibility. 

The annual Halloween EMP auction is therefore right up my alley, yet I only purchased one item ("The Land Unknown" 3-sheet) last night.  The reason why I didn't bid on the big ticket items in yesterday' sale was either because I already own a copy for a lot of them (such as "The Invisible Man Returns" OS or "Attack of the 50 Ft Woman" insert), or in the case of the OS, because they were all on linen (in the case of "Son of Kong" and "House of Dracula"), and I do not collect linen-backed OS.  I suspect other collectors didn't participate in that auction for the same reasons.

Well said, Ben.

Im another who has always enjoyed not only the wonderful, classic horror films done by Universal (and other studios, like Paramount and RKO), and the posters from these films are some of the finest out there, dealing with this genre.

As the saying goes== "different strokes for different folks." Many young movie watchers today love and view the films from these decades (poster collecting for them may be a different matter due to their price points), and that's exciting to know. I have 2 nephews that are 15 and 13, and they LOVE the old B/W horror films. So that audience will never die. And a HUGE number of films from the 30s are readily available to view. And more are becoming available every day/week/year.

The poster game is another story, being cyclical perhaps and also a bit like a roller coaster, with prices fluctuating up and down. And there can also be be periods, like with any genre, where they may not be as "hot."

That's what makes the hobby so exciting.. to see what the trends are and will be. Auction houses all achieve the best they can... and some do better than others with certain decades, genres and actors.





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Offline timelessmoviemagic

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Re: Will Emovieposter's Record Low Auction Results continue?
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2017, 04:29:05 AM »
I agree with what most have said on this subject. $800 for a Halloween 2 poster is ridiculous but says to me that only a small amount of collectors are interested in the old horror titles.

It's nothing to do with Bruce/Emovie that the results are 'low'. If you take the average sale of each item in Part 1 that equates to $670. Still not too shabby and I'm sure most dealers here would love results like that.


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Offline 50s

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Re: Will Emovieposter's Record Low Auction Results continue?
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2017, 05:23:51 AM »
So my pre 1970's poster collection is approaching worth zilch :(

I don't collect much 1970's plus
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 05:25:17 AM by 50s »

Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Will Emovieposter's Record Low Auction Results continue?
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2017, 04:32:57 PM »
while it is true that some portions of the market have diminished in the past few years, the concept of a Son of Kong one sheet, of which there are only a few of either style extant, selling for $7700 is a commentary on things other than the narrow idea that certain market conditions in one venue represent the market as a whole and the hierarchical structure of the business of the hobby in general.

There can be no doubt that where you sell has as much import as when you sell.
I doubt very much that the Son of Kong (and many other items in Bruce's auction) would not have done better at Heritage. The price on the poster is less than half of any other sale on that poster known since 2000 and only a third of what is known of some auction results. (private sales produced higher results) and for a poster of that level, from a desired title to sell that low just says it was the wrong venue and you can only balance that low result so much against the unnatural result of a Halloween 2 one sheet. Of course, if the SoK poster sold on my site at auction, I'm sure the result would be even lower, but that's why I send such items to Heritage. HA has never disappointed me selling any of my posters, as I would have to beat what I get after commissions over their result, which I estimate is 1 out of 10 items I send them.

There is a reason why Grey Smith has been an underbidder on such things as Dominique's Casablanca one sheet and the Scarlett Empress one sheet etc. - It's because he knows he can do better and if he's only an underbidder, it's not because he doesn't think he could sell it for more, but because the math decreases as a business decision, and clearly  he has no problem otherwise filling the slot.

Would HA do better on 100% of what was sold Tuesday? To believe so would be foolishness, but I have no doubt that a number of the higher-ticketed items would have done better, which exemplifies the tiered-system we have in the business

there is also another side to this equation - the effect that publicly selling items for decreasing results actually have on collectors...

anybody here who has ever tried to sell something knows what happens in the market. People look at results from public sources. By and large, sellers (be they dealer, collector, or finder under the carpet) like to look at the highest price achieved, while buyers look at the lowest prices achieved. While some might think that the math becomes "Halloween 2 one sheets $60, $97, $126, $125, $88, $812... average result = $218.. there's my price" is how you arrive at a proper conclusion, that would be false. $812 doesn't belong in the equation. It's an outlier, so the true average is $60, $97, $126, $125, $88 ... average result =$99 and that is right where any of those fools could have bought the poster in his store, raw, if they had taken the time to look.

But even more, when someone contacts me, looking for the poster, most of the time the only result they see is the $60 and that's exactly what they see when any collector is now looking to sell his copy. So the Son of Kong poster (for instance) selling for $7700 has damaged the ability of any dealer, collector or finder of gold to get $15k-25k now.

It affects every person who owns a similar poster where a consignor sells their quality posters and knowledgeable buyers can get spooked by what the see as incongruous results - especially at the low end, lowering the ability to sell even further.

It can be a real dance, and one dancer being tripped up can make numerous people on the dancefloor fall down with them.

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Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Will Emovieposter's Record Low Auction Results continue?
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2017, 05:00:46 PM »
and by the way, whether the high quality items were sold last week or 3 weeks ago wouldn't matter. The people buying $5000 posters are not usually effected by a 3-week difference. They would bid the same next week on the same items. If it was a week or so after the Heritage auction might make a difference though, seeing as it pulls $2mil out of the hobby.

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Offline eatbrie

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Re: Will Emovieposter's Record Low Auction Results continue?
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2017, 05:33:27 PM »
So my pre 1970's poster collection is approaching worth zilch :(

I don't collect much 1970's plus

If you collect 20s-40s posters, I'd advise you to sell them quick.  Older folks who have been collecting this stuff will eventually go, their stuff will hit the market with lesser and lesser demand.  More material, lesser demand, you do the math.

T
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Re: Will Emovieposter's Record Low Auction Results continue?
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2017, 07:05:39 PM »
If you collect 20s-40s posters, I'd advise you to sell them quick.  Older folks who have been collecting this stuff will eventually go, their stuff will hit the market with lesser and lesser demand.  More material, lesser demand, you do the math.

T

to some degree, yes

and I'd go all the way into the 1960s T, except I would excise the really good stuff, especially 1920s-30s posters. The average poster from teh 1960s means nothing to most people now. Can even be said of 1970s posters.

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Offline erik1925

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Re: Will Emovieposter's Record Low Auction Results continue?
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2017, 09:28:58 PM »
I collect movie posters from those early decades because I like the films and the poster artwork, especially the stone lithos, and not because their value may go up or down. I don't collect thinking about investment value, so "selling quick" will never be an option for me, due to that reasoning.


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Offline eatbrie

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Re: Will Emovieposter's Record Low Auction Results continue?
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2017, 09:40:11 PM »
What posters from the 20s and 30s do you collect, Jeff?  I have seen some of Antoine's, but don't remember seeing any of yours, or maybe I missed them.  Would love to see them.

T
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Offline erik1925

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Re: Will Emovieposter's Record Low Auction Results continue?
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2017, 09:44:42 PM »
I have a scattering of things from the '20s-1940s, T.

Ive posted a good number of them here on the forum, usually in the New Acquisitions threads over the years, as well as in some of the others, too, like the various foreign poster threads.

I will try and drum up a few links.


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Re: Will Emovieposter's Record Low Auction Results continue?
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2017, 09:56:15 PM »
he has a fabulous Belgian poster. That's for sure....

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