Author Topic: Why I Linen Back My Collection  (Read 6463 times)

Offline Communicationsguy

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Why I Linen Back My Collection
« on: May 30, 2017, 10:20:44 AM »
I have read some very thoughtful commentary from members on both sides of the linen backing question. For many passionate collectors it's an emotional issue not unlike the debate over something like capital punishment. I happen to be one of those people who believe in the benefits of linen backing, but not for everything.

Posters that are damaged, or are extremely fragile benefit greatly from the linen backing process. Before the poster is mounted on the Japanese acid free paper and linen, any tape and tape residue is removed, stickers, snipes and stamps are removed, the poster is cleaned, possibly in a mild bleach bath, the fold lines are rolled out and then the poster is mounted and any missing paper replaced. Even before any color is applied, the improvement is typically striking. However, when fully restored, the poster looks like it just rolled off the press and looks spectacular when framed.

I recently had a client from Ohio present me with a rolled Star Wars style A first printing poster. It was in near mint condition. I suggested he not linen back it since there were no damage or blemishes whatsoever. Conversely, if that same poster had been folded I would have advocated linen backing. Once folded a poster has been damaged and is vulnerable to fold separation and the deterioration of paper in the centre fold intersections. It is also nearly impossible to flatten out the fold lines when framing and it will never be truly flat until it is linen backed. (believe me using a hot iron definitely does not work, people have tried it and burnt their poster, no kidding)

I understand that posters are a part of cinematic history and should represent the era and show their age. I would not disagree, I am a firm believer that less is more when it comes to restoration. But at the same time, a poster that has been linen backed with the fold lines removed looks far better and is far more stable and easier to handle than a folded one sheet. For those reasons, I have linen backed the majority of pieces in my collection and have them proudly on display throughout the house.

Dan Miles, Backingtothefuture.
www.backingtothefuture.com

Offline marklawd

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Re: Why I Linen Back My Collection
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2017, 11:45:13 AM »
Posters that are damaged, or are extremely fragile benefit greatly from the linen backing process

Agree.

Once folded a poster has been damaged ... It is also nearly impossible to flatten out the fold lines when framing and it will never be truly flat until it is linen backed.

Disagree. When kept in mylar pockets under weight the impact of fold lines is greatly reduced over time.

Mark

Offline erik1925

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Re: Why I Linen Back My Collection
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2017, 01:17:57 PM »
Ive always been (and have said) that I was a "less is more" kind of person, restoration-wise and would only have something backed if it was in dire need of preservation and conservation.

There is that ongoing debate among collectors as to their reasons for LB, and I certainly can appreciate the various POV on this topic.


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Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Why I Linen Back My Collection
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2017, 01:33:39 PM »
I would echo Mark's reply exactly.

Yes, posters that have been degraded by large tears, fragility, missing paper, tape & the like will have to be backed & restored. But folds as a defect? sorry.. NO!

Quote
Once folded a poster has been damaged and is vulnerable to fold separation

sure, but when? How many years or decades? I have a number of posters that are more than 100 years old and there is no fold separation at all, so as long as the posters have been cared for, such an issue is no problem.

my philosophy on backing or restoration is simple.. do as little of it as is possible and only when absolutely necessary. I collect paper, not linen.
I returned a lobby card to someone this week that had been gel-backed. It wasn't mentioned because the seller didn't consider gel-backing restoration (I'd like to know at what point he does consider it restoration)

Some people have said to me "museums linenback their posters".
yes, they do occasionally, but it's rare, for a variety of reasons, the main one being 'money'. Museums are not going to waste valuable funds that could be directed to more important projects, moreover - unless they want to exhibit the item, they don't do anything to a degraded item other than to place it between mylar sheets to arrest any further degradation. Even when backing an item that is missing paper, for the most part, museums do not restore missing sections - even for exhibit - of many items (particularly documents).

IMO, linenbacking and restoration is a vastly over-used method done too often simply for cosmetic reasons

but there is another factor... the financial issue
if a poster is worth $500 in it's current condition, and after getting $200 worth of backing & restoration it is now a $700 poster, what did you gain? Cosmetics? Big deal!
as a dealer, that math is even worse. If I spend $300 to acquire a poster that I sell for $500 (presuming there is no price compromise at sale), my profit is 66.6% of my cost.
If I linenback the same poster for $200 and sell it for $700, my profit margin has been reduced to 40%.. Where is my benefit? It looks to me that I just took a hit and made nothing extra, while I can otherwise take that same $200 and buy a poster I'm going to sell for $350. So for that same $500 in costs, I now have 2 posters worth $850.00 rather than one worth $700.00

we.collect.paper in this hobby.

paper

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Online eatbrie

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Re: Why I Linen Back My Collection
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2017, 04:09:48 PM »
I would echo Mark's reply exactly.

Me too.  And "extremely fragile" is key.  Otherwise, no restoration.

T
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Offline marklawd

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Re: Why I Linen Back My Collection
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2017, 05:30:14 AM »
Some people have said to me "museums linenback their posters".

My paper conservator once told me that no reputable museum would ever use linen-backing as a method of preservation because it was non-archival. Paper backing is always preferred.

Mark

Offline Charlie

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Re: Why I Linen Back My Collection
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2017, 07:32:21 AM »
My paper conservator once told me that no reputable museum would ever use linen-backing as a method of preservation because it was non-archival. Paper backing is always preferred.

Mark

I believe this.  Linenbacking is too much trouble and doesn't get you much more than a good paperbacking does. plus you can roll many posters up for storage.

I personally love paperbacking - I've been using mulberry paper vs. masa...   The poster is much easier to handle, roll, store, etc.  You can trim lobbies/inserts to the edge and for posters like daybills/czech/b2 you can still leave a border.  You can't run into walls with them, so they are pretty much just a delicate as an unrestored poster.  Interestingly in my experience they lay down better and are easier to work on because of the hard surface underneath.




Offline Communicationsguy

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Re: Why I Linen Back My Collection
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2017, 09:32:45 AM »
I know I am not going to change anyone's mind on this site, people have very strong views. 

However, if a folded poster is not damaged, than why is a rolled copy in nearly all cases more valuable than a folded copy? Probably because the folded poster now has color missing along the fold lines and when displayed, the rolled poster looks far better than the  folded copy. When linen backed or paper backed, the folded poster is now completely flat and can look just as good as the rolled copy. But that is simply my personal point of view.

Cheers, Dan Miles.

Online eatbrie

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Re: Why I Linen Back My Collection
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2017, 12:16:22 PM »
My paper conservator once told me that no reputable museum would ever use linen-backing as a method of preservation because it was non-archival. Paper backing is always preferred.

Mark

This is 100% true, and I work with museums.

T
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 01:50:02 PM by eatbrie »
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- "Wishing you the best of luck with All Poster Forum and in encouraging others to appreciate the magical art of film posters" - Martin Scorsese (2009)

Online eatbrie

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Re: Why I Linen Back My Collection
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2017, 12:30:34 PM »
I know I am not going to change anyone's mind on this site, people have very strong views. 

However, if a folded poster is not damaged, than why is a rolled copy in nearly all cases more valuable than a folded copy? Probably because the folded poster now has color missing along the fold lines and when displayed, the rolled poster looks far better than the folded copy. When linen backed or paper backed, the folded poster is now completely flat and can look just as good as the rolled copy. But that is simply my personal point of view.

Cheers, Dan Miles.

These are two completely different issues.  Of course people will always prefer a rolled copy over a folded copy, of course a rolled copy will be worth more, but that does not mean folded copies should be linenbacked.  In 99% of cases, you will not be able to find a rolled copy for a given poster, especially anything prior to 1980.  A folded copy is all there is.  I have multiple stacks of 300 posters, and I can say that folds do fade over time.  They never completely disappear, but if folds are a problem (they are not to me), the poster will look better and better as time goes by.  Much cheaper than linenbacking.

As far as I'm concerned, the main problem with linenbacked posters is the room they take to store.  Where I can stack 300 posters in a drawer, I would only be able to put 50 linenbacked posters.

T
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 12:31:53 PM by eatbrie »
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- "Wishing you the best of luck with All Poster Forum and in encouraging others to appreciate the magical art of film posters" - Martin Scorsese (2009)

Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Why I Linen Back My Collection
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2017, 12:44:25 PM »
These are two completely different issues.  Of course people will always prefer a rolled copy over a folded copy, of course a rolled copy will be worth more, but that does not mean folded copies should be linenbacked.  In 99% of cases, you will not be able to find a rolled copy for a given poster, especially anything prior to 1980.  A folded copy is all there is.  I have multiple stacks of 300 posters, and I can say that folds do fade over time.  They never completely disappear, but if folds are a problem (they are not to me), the poster will look better and better as time goes by.  Much cheaper than linenbacking.

correct on all counts


As far as I'm concerned, the main problem with linenbacked posters is the room they take to store.

my opinion is that what's wrong with linenbacking is that it is an over-used method under 90% of circumstances

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Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Why I Linen Back My Collection
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2017, 12:49:33 PM »
However, if a folded poster is not damaged, than why is a rolled copy in nearly all cases more valuable than a folded copy?

so does linenbacking suddenly turn a folded poster into a rolled poster?

NO

It doesn't.

It is a folded poster that has been modified considerably to make it cosmetically acceptable to people who are horrified by "omg folds!"

I have posters framed & displayed that have folds, that have some small paper loss or even a little tape. So what. None of that bothers me, because I expect it.

for what it's worth, I prefer a woman with small natural boobies to one who has fake big ones
I think plastic surgery is also overused, and you can ask Priscilla Presley what she thinks about it also, though her opinion came too late to help her.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 12:50:36 PM by MoviePosterBid.com »

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Offline erik1925

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Re: Why I Linen Back My Collection
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2017, 01:03:36 PM »
so does linenbacking suddenly turn a folded poster into a rolled poster?

NO

It doesn't.

It is a folded poster that has been modified considerably to make it cosmetically acceptable to people who are horrified by "omg folds!"

I have posters framed & displayed that have folds, that have some small paper loss or even a little tape. So what. None of that bothers me, because I expect it.

for what it's worth, I prefer a woman with small natural boobies to one who has fake big ones
I think plastic surgery is also overused, and you can ask Priscilla Presley what she thinks about it also, though her opinion came too late to help her.

Folds in early posters will never bother me, either, and I would never back them for that reason alone. I have posters laying flat right now from the 30s-early 80s right now, under evenly pressed weight, and the fold lines are almost invisible.

The Wait & Weight Method™ works well for me in these cases. Now posters that are fragile, brittle or in danger of falling apart from severely weakened folds or tears are a different matter, imo and Id address those, looking into conserving them in one way or another.

Re plastic surgery.. just Google "Pete Burns" & look and read about the horrors he went thru, in the years prior to his recent death.... scary.  faint2.gif


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Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Why I Linen Back My Collection
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2017, 03:52:51 PM »
Re plastic surgery.. just Google "Pete Burns" & look and read about the horrors he went thru, in the years prior to his recent death.... scary.  faint2.gif

hey, Donatella Versace was a very beautiful women before plastic surgery took control of her

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Offline erik1925

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Re: Why I Linen Back My Collection
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2017, 03:56:15 PM »
hey, Donatella Versace was a very beautiful women before plastic surgery took control of her

OH BOY.... you know it. She's another that is almost scary to look at, she now looks so unusual.

Maybe she should have tried linen backing.  ;D
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 04:08:58 PM by erik1925 »


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Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Why I Linen Back My Collection
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2017, 08:42:27 PM »
OH BOY.... you know it. She's another that is almost scary to look at, she now looks so unusual.

Maybe she should have tried linen backing.  ;D

her surgeon is to plastic surgery what Chris Cloutier is to linenbacking

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Offline erik1925

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Re: Why I Linen Back My Collection
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2017, 08:58:58 PM »
her surgeon is to plastic surgery what Chris Cloutier is to linenbacking

Bingo!   qip



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Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Why I Linen Back My Collection
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2017, 09:11:38 PM »
her surgeon is to plastic surgery what Chris Cloutier is to linenbacking

upon reflection, that may be too harsh on the plastic surgeon

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Offline erik1925

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Re: Why I Linen Back My Collection
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2017, 09:34:30 PM »
upon reflection, that may be too harsh on the plastic surgeon

Maybe best not to be too harsh on CC either and some feel he does fine work, too.  8)


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Offline erik1925

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Re: Why I Linen Back My Collection
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2017, 03:22:31 PM »
Hey Dan,

There's been a bit of discussion on MOPO and here on APF about backing posters on mulberry paper alone, rather than going the full traditional, linen backing route. Have you backed posters using this method?

And do you offer this (or traditional paper backing for items on heavier card stock such as lobbies, window cards and inserts)?

Thanks much.

cheers
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 03:23:43 PM by erik1925 »


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Offline erik1925

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Re: Why I Linen Back My Collection
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2017, 04:55:12 PM »
I got an email from Dan Miles when I asked if he also backed posters using mulberry paper. He said that he has only backed posters with Japanese masa paper so far but would certainly also use mulberry paper - whatever his clients would like to have done.  thumbsup.gif


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Re: Why I Linen Back My Collection
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2017, 02:04:12 AM »
The only way to display a folded one sheet properly is to have it linen backed- no question about it.

Offline 50s

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Re: Why I Linen Back My Collection
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2017, 09:30:15 AM »
Oh oh... Depends what properly means!

Offline jayn_j

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Re: Why I Linen Back My Collection
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2017, 12:26:02 PM »
Oh oh... Depends what properly means!
Agreed.  My interpretation is to display is as closely as possible to the way it would have been displayed in the theater.  That means chrome frame and folds showing.
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