All Poster Forum
Common Poster Subjects => Authentication => Topic started by: Charlie on February 18, 2014, 05:40:11 PM
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I am starting this thread to seek additional information regarding the authenticity of Thai Movie Posters. It seems like a lot of us (myself included) have been purchasing multiple Thai movie posters as of late. I have yet to be convinced that everything I've bought is 1st release original material and not restrikes from either the original posters or the original artwork.
Here are a few reasons:
I've only noticed premium titles up for sale. You don't see a lot of off titles - maybe because they never showed in Thailand.
The artists in Thailand seem to still own the original artwork. Can these be scanned in and reproduced?
There are issues with the artwork in various titles.
Apocalypse Now:
One Sheet. Notice separation between "Bottoms" and no defects in artwork.
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/34d488e3cde06dbdb3a7703ba76fa0b6/tumblr_n17pnwayGg1sgzbsno1_1280.jpg)
Two Sheet. Notice the defects in the artwork the fold running in the middle of the left sheet and how "Bottoms" lines up. This copy in is pretty much pristine condition. These are not from the paper, but from the original scanned image. However the colors in this version are outstanding compared to the one sheet - much deeper.
(http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/042013/4252013/apoc_thai.jpg)
I have three theories.
1. The two sheets are legit and were reproduce from the original artwork and the one sheet is a cleaned up version of a scan from the two sheet, where they forgot to push the "Bottoms" back together. They also digitally corrected the problems from the two sheet original. What I have a hard time believing is that the two sheets would have been produced as first releases with such messiness.
2. The known two sheets are later rereleases, where scans were used of the original concept artwork that had since deteriorated by TongDee or owners of the originals.
3. The One sheet was produced first from original artwork and the two sheet was later reproduced due to demand via No. 1 with the problems in the artwork. The "Bottoms" issue was resolved with the two sheet printing.
~4. They are all reproductions of the original artworks over time and may have varying artwork issues as printed on demand by the artist TongDee or owner of the art.
Another example of folds in artwork. Notice the fold line through the heads of the Indians in this Dances With Wolves - also in near mint condition.
(http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/042013/4252013/dances_thai.jpg)
However to combat these theories here is a photo of the original Terminator Artwork and you can see the fold line.
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/94a0ac2e349e9321d14de410138613ce/tumblr_n17pq1JXX51sv8a86o1_1280.jpg)
Here is the poster which looks digitally enhance:
(https://24.media.tumblr.com/8862e8f4e0e335d7bce9d216ca29a011/tumblr_mw6gb0Gmj21sgzbsno1_500.jpg)
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I'll have to check my Dances With Wolves to see what it looks like compared to yours. One thing that has always bothered me about it is there is a painted line in the artwork across the middle of the sheet which is apparent on my copy as well as yours. Like the artist did half the artwork on a different panel or something and brought them together for the full print. Regardless this is the best artwork done on the film in my opinion. I can also say mine isn't as pristine as your copy.
I know a few people who have the Apocalypse Now One Sheet but how many people have the 2 sheet besides you? I have the terminator as well but it's buried some place that God only knows.
I wonder how common are the 2 sheets?
And what are all the sizes that Thailand officially uses for theater releases?
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Here is what somewhat makes me wonder:
1) Mostly all good titles
2) Mostly all good condition
3) Low prices on some
4) Prices so low on some that it seems like the sellers have next-to-no cost in them
5) Multiples for sale
All of the above describes the stuff the minty white sellers sell.
But everything may be fine. Does anyone have any that appear more "theater-used" than the ones seen thus far?
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You've only sold 113 Thai posters though Bruce. If there were lots of fakes floating around, don't you think you would have been consigned considerably more by now?
http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/search/thai/country/Thai/archive.html
I can't speak to the fold lines appearing printed in the artwork, but here is another theory. Most of the desirable titles for Thai posters only sell for $100 or much less. If something like Le Mans only sells for $12 (http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/archiveitem/673427.html), what incentive would there to be to save less desirable titles, let alone consign or auction them? That could explain why only few higher-end titles seem to surface. Just an idea...
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I have more to lose than anyone if they prove to be restrikes or rereleases or repros, because I would be offering 113 refunds!
But I still have to wonder. Posters from just about every other country come more from bad than good movies, even though the bad ones sell for little. And they come in terrible condition around as much as they come in great condition.
But apparently Thailand is an exception.
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I have more to lose than anyone if they prove to be restrikes or rereleases or repros, because I would be offering 113 refunds!
But I still have to wonder. Posters from just about every other country come more from bad than good movies, even though the bad ones sell for little. And they come in terrible condition around as much as they come in great condition.
But apparently Thailand is an exception.
Maybe Thailand only received "popular" movies at a later date? - I.e. after they were proven to be successful in North America or elsewhere internationally...
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For older films released in Thailand, that may have been released sometime later, are Thai posters printed with any kind of date? One example that I have seen described as being from either the 1960's or 1970's, is for River Of No Return. Several are on ebay right now, from Thai sellers as being from the '60s, and a couple others are stated to be from later. I know Bruce has described these as "Probably from the 1970s."
Is there any way to definitively know? (and not just for this title, but for any Thai poster).
(http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q719/spitfire3992/riverofno_zps1549d2b0.jpg)
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I am resigned to state that I think two of the three Terminator Thai posters I received from Pea (the person selling on here) are restrikes... In fact I think the other one is just an earlier restrike.
I've got two different versions. (Click for supersized)
No paint under Terminator and paint under Terminator.
No Paint Under Terminator Version:
(http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/022014/12.03.2013-4S.jpg) (http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/022014/12.03.2013-4.jpg)
Paint Under Terminator Version (these are separate copies - notice the same water damage pattern)
(http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/022014/02182014-2S.jpg) (http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/022014/02182014-2.jpg) (http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/022014/02182014-3S.jpg) (http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/022014/02182014-3.jpg)
It appears both of these came from the same water damaged roll... Now it gets even better! There are also others on eBay right now that have the same water damage pattern as the ones I received from her. Without the paint! So how many prints would have to be run and rolled, then ruined by water, to get to that paint spot...
(http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/022014/Terinator%20Restrikes/Terminator_Restrike-2.jpg)
(http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/022014/Terinator%20Restrikes/Terminator_Restrike-3.jpg)
Here is another folded copy without the water damage (Click for supersize):
(http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/022014/Terinator%20Restrikes/Terminator_Restrike-1.jpg) (http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/022014/Terinator%20Restrikes/Terminator_Restrike-1.jpg)
And then there is this one I found that doesn't have the line (that I can tell)
(http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/022014/Terinator%20Restrikes/Terminator_Restrike-7.jpg)
Here is the original again:
(http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/022014/Terinator%20Restrikes/Terminator_Restrike-4.jpg)
I also found the same artwork on a Pakastani Poster:
(http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/022014/Terinator%20Restrikes/pakistani5yo.jpg)
I am also now suspicious that all the posters I have purchased from her are restrikes. I think these Thai posters dealers, especially with the TongDee art, are having runs printed probably 100 at a time on demand from the original artwork.
If anyone can prove me wrong please do. Pea if you have information to the contrary, please provide it.
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(http://25.media.tumblr.com/34d488e3cde06dbdb3a7703ba76fa0b6/tumblr_n17pnwayGg1sgzbsno1_1280.jpg)
Two Sheet. Notice the defects in the artwork the fold running in the middle of the left sheet and how "Bottoms" lines up. This copy in is pretty much pristine condition. These are not from the paper, but from the original scanned image. However the colors in this version are outstanding compared to the one sheet - much deeper.
Ok, I was wrong here. I just pulled out my copy and the fold is in the paper. But the other defects in the artwork are true...
Here is a super high res...
Left (http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/022014/Apoc_Left_WM.jpg) & Right (http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/022014/Apoc_Right_WM.jpg)
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Here is what somewhat makes me wonder:
1) Mostly all good titles
2) Mostly all good condition
3) Low prices on some
4) Prices so low on some that it seems like the sellers have next-to-no cost in them
5) Multiples for sale
All of the above describes the stuff the minty white sellers sell.
But everything may be fine. Does anyone have any that appear more "theater-used" than the ones seen thus far?
I don't have any of the posters pictured above.
I met with in person and bought from Pea.
I also met on two occasions and bought from another dealer in Bangkok.
Firstly the titles that are available are not by any stretch mostly all good titles.
I am sure that what has been bought from this forum has been mostly "good" titles. But what is available is a lot (LOT) of titles that I am sure pea won't bother listing here as it's a waste of time, Thai films, Hong Kong films non of us have heard of. Misc UN cool American films etc.
My taste and the taste of my customers is a little different to most collectors, so while I did get some sight after and usual titles,like Dawn of the dead, REANIMATOR etc, I also got titles that I know I can use but most people couldn't give two hoots about , like Bruno Matteis RATS NIGHT OF TERROR, or Sergio Martinos ISLAND OF THE FISHMEN.
Some things to note,
with dawn of the dead, I bought one that was near mint/rolled, and a couple that were used and folded.
They are the same, except for the "damage" to the used ones.
A couple of titles, I wanted more than one copy, but they were not available, or in one case there was three available only, I couldn't "order" more. Once gone he were gone.
I saw posters that Pea showed me, many titles that even though I was there, so no postage costs, and as I was buying a lot, Pea gave me a good price, I could not use or resell, (nothing titles).
So, the theory that only good titles is not true.
Same with the Bangkok store, he had thousands of posters that wouldn't get much action in a 99c no reserve auction.
I can't really comment on the terminator or apoc now 2 sheet, I haven't seen these in person. Except I saw the apoc now one sheet in the Bangkok store. I didn't look too closely as it's not a film or poster that interests me personally.
Anyway I am all for research ,and sharing information.
I hope though that a witch hunt isn't called for prematurely.
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I am inclined to agree with Ari.
In the past few years I have spent several thousand dollars with a few Thai sellers & collectors (including Pea) all in the area of Japanese sci-fi.
It seems that Thailand released more Japanese sci-fi films than any other country I know of and it hasn't been unusual to find a Thai poster for a film that I can't find a record of being released in even a single other country around the world (things like Gamera vs. Zigra and Yokai Monsters), and while posters from the mid-80s onward have been much more plentiful, posters from the mid-60s and prior have been incredibly tough.
Paper quality and poster condition have both trended down as the posters have gotten older, and of the titles in this area that would demand high dollars I have been lucky to find even a single example of many and never multiple copies of any of them. Even a few years ago Pea was complaining to me about how most titles were worthless, how hard it was to find the really good stuff and that apparently not only were literal tons of older paper destroyed by the harsh conditions in the country (lots of flooding combined with horrible storage conditions in hot humid weather until mass collecting started in the mid-80s) but there are a few "kingpins" who controlled most of the open-air cinemas during the 60s-80s and warehoused most of the earlier paper that is found.
There is still a lot I am looking for (and of course I buy the Thai lobbies and other material also) and while ebay and sellers abound with multiple copies for something like the re-release of Invasion of the Astro Monsters, the original proved quite tough to find. But I am really enjoying the fact that they created unique artwork for a large majority of their titles and finding so many titles that were unreleased in other countries.
Pretty much every title I have at least through the late 70s is dated - almost all are all dated using the Buddhist year -1 (so a poster with the date of 2513 would be 1970), though there are the odd ones using the Western calendar.
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I hope though that a witch hunt isn't called for prematurely.
I apologize if this the message I am sending. I perhaps am not trying to call out Pea as much attempt to get a resolution to the unsettling feelings I have about the posters. Maybe someone can address:
Why there are folds in the artwork? Is this how the Thai poster system works?
I've seen fold in other poster art and most have been rereleases. Most obvious one is the For a Few Dollars More Italian 70s RR:
With the fold in the art:
(https://24.media.tumblr.com/0a5f37e692b9d6e05ac64132df9a711b/tumblr_n192584jKq1sv8a86o1_500.jpg)
Without the fold in the art:
(https://24.media.tumblr.com/8b934d51edd8ae7d924a1725f50d9133/tumblr_n1923a7l3b1sv8a86o1_500.jpg)
Why is the artwork in the Apocalypse Now 2-Sheet so unpolished? Why would there be an error in the one sheet horizontal?
There just isn't any information out there regarding authentication, production process, etc...
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Firstly the titles that are available are not by any stretch mostly all good titles.
I am sure that what has been bought from this forum has been mostly "good" titles. But what is available is a lot (LOT) of titles that I am sure pea won't bother listing here as it's a waste of time, Thai films, Hong Kong films non of us have heard of. Misc UN cool American films etc.
I can accept this as true. First hand experience is very helpful.
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Many times folds I have seen in foreign paper have been from 2nd/3rd world countries that are reprinting other countries artwork. Now I know Thailand is considered a 1st world country, and that they are mostly doing their own art so not sure what the explanation would be here.
One thing I don't understand from your accusations is that if Nixdorf owns the original artwork for the Terminator poster, why would he be loaning it back to Thailand so they can run it off 100 copies at a time?
That makes no sense.
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One thing I don't understand from your accusations is that if Nixdorf owns the original artwork for the Terminator poster, why would he be loaning it back to Thailand so they can run it off 100 copies at a time?
That makes no sense.
It doesn't... I don't know who owns what? I just went back and studied the page and see it is owned by this Nixdorf fella... I just can't fathom why artwork would be folded prior to producing 1st release posters...
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I would also say that in comparing the original artwork and the posters they are different colors... The original also doesn't have the mock ups for printing. I imagine there is a master mock up for production including the titles etc. that could be being used for printing purposes.
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I would also say that in comparing the original artwork and the posters they are different colors... The original also doesn't have the mock ups for printing. I imagine there is a master mock up for production including the titles etc. that could be being used for printing purposes.
Of course. The original is never just laid on a press and they start printing. They always make a copy and then apply stats to it. The original in this case is quite large (larger than a 1-sheet), and it wouldn't surprise me if it was folded either by the artist to mail back to the office, or by the office themselves so they could transport it easily.
It was just throw-away art, not meant to be scrutinized after printing to see if there is a light fold line printed on the poster - especially in a country like Thailand.
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As another side note. And not to be mean to Aussie posters but there's folds printed in artwork of Aussie first posters also sometimes. Granted though this is when they used foreign art as the key image.
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As another side note. And not to be mean to Aussie posters but there's folds printed in artwork of Aussie first posters also sometimes. Granted though this is when they used foreign art as the key image.
Yep - Running Man springs to mind
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Yep - Running Man springs to mind
Yeah, I freaked out about that one too...
http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,3411.msg53865.html#msg53865
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So, I have been doing more study and am now convince that only the artwork was folded for these Terminator posters. My new theory, building on Sean's post, that the artwork was folded (maybe in half or maybe to fit the scanner) for scanning purposes. The mock up could have also been folded to be digitized further creating the strong line through the middle of the art. However there is no evidence that the fold goes beyond the art...
If you look at what I have been calling a fold line you will see that the image doesn't even match up and there appears to be a curve in it:
(http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/022014/Terinator%20Restrikes/Terminator_Zoom.jpg)
The fold not going beyond the art:
(http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/022014/Terinator%20Restrikes/Terminator_Zoom2.jpg)
Bruce also was asking about theater used copies and I snapped some pics of the back of the folded copy and it looks pretty theater used and even has the title...
(http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/022014/Terinator%20Restrikes/Terminator_Zoom3.jpg)
(http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/022014/Terinator%20Restrikes/Terminator_Zoom4.jpg)
So maybe just a freak out on my part but we need to step it up and learn more about the Thai movie poster production process and how to spot fakes...
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Maybe it was painted over to canvass and that is a physical join between the two?
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Just a note: I messaged Pea about this thread when I started it. She has yet to respond to me or this thread.
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I do not think Pea ventures outside of the for sale section that often Charlie. I do not know how well her English is but she might also have a hard time reading what it typed. And she may not want to take the time to Google translate it all. Just to much work. I don't know Charlie maybe over time she will take the time and post in here. Another person you could ask that has a ton of Thai posters is Neil Jarowski I believe is his name. He lives in the UK. I do not think that he is an active member here but he might be able to shed some light on this subject as well.
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I apologize for taking so long to reply to this thread, but after just getting over a recent illness I had to attend a funeral for my best
friend, and I wanted to verify some information before responding.
First off though, I would like to thank you for opening this thread and giving me a chance to clarify about Thai posters as much as possible.
I actually had a chance to talk with Tongdee and his assistant to verify some of the information about the posters and whether or not they
are authentic.
Tongdee would like to confirm that the Apocalypse Now 2-sheets are indeed authentic, but he has never seen the 1-sheets until recently so
he is unsure as to their origin.
Tongdee would also like to set at ease the worries about the posters being purchased from me being restrikes or not originals.
He said no one scanned or reproduced his artwork from the originals, as no Thai artists allow that. As to restrikes, it depends on the orders
of the rights owners of the films in Thailand. Although they can be reprinted for for use in the rural areas, the colors will mostly be
different and it will mainly be done for Thai movies, very rarely for foreign movies.
Usually there are two different types of artwork made, one is used for 1-sheets and the other for 2-sheets. The 2-sheets are almost alway
s reserved for big-budget release movies (Apocalypse Now, Terminator, Dances with Wolves, etc.). These can also be shown at the studio
owned or rights owned theaters in Thailand. 2 Sheet artwork is painted on 2 seperate boards. When boards put together for 1 sheet print,
there is line that can't be removed
Oftentimes when the 2-sheet art is used also for the 1-sheet, you will see a line in the middle of the poster (Dances with Wolves,
Terminator, etc.).
This is because they used a straight offset printing back then, and no Photoshop or digital correction. They are/were never printed by
demand of the artist, only by the request of the Thailand rights holder to be used as promotional material in the theater (both urban
and rural areas).
Condition can vary because the posters can be found from many different place, mostly from what we call liquidation theaters and they
were located both in urban and rural areas. When posters were sent to the rural area theaters they were usually folded (rarely kept rolled).
If the theater is a large one (mainly urban areas) and has spare room to keep the posters then they can be found in excellent condition, but
from smaller theaters and not kept up well then of course they will look old and dirty.
Thai movie posters have many different sizes and they were all dependent upon the demands of the right owners of the movies.
There were many companies importing movies and using different printing sizes and this is why Thai posters will come in different sizes.
Paper quality and size will usually depend on the following factors:
1. Price of paper in the different time period
2. Budget of the rights owner in marketing the movie
3. Relationship between the rights owner of the movie and printing company
4. Current economy in Thailand.
Hope this addresses some of the issues you had, and if I missed answering any of your questions please let me know and I will do my best
to answer.
Thanks,
Pea
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clap
Thank you so much Pea! This clears up the fold issue for good. You can easily tell in the Terminator art that the fold don't really match up as if they were two separate pieces...
Your statements from Tongdee about the Apocalypse Now One Sheet also makes sense as they appear to be cleaned up digitally and the text was not pushed back together; as if they were scans of the Two Sheet.
The information straight from Tongdee is invaluable...
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In respect to the TERMINATOR pic that was posted where it was speculated there might not be a line in it, I can tell you there is a line. That's a pic of my Terminator poster from a Thai poster show of some posters in my collection that happened in California.
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In respect to the TERMINATOR pic that was posted where it was speculated there might not be a line in it, I can tell you there is a line. That's a pic of my Terminator poster from a Thai poster show of some posters in my collection that happened in California.
welcome1 Mike good to see that you made it to the forum after countless emails. Pea does give some very good information. I do have a question about the Terminator though. Almost every Terminator poster I have seen has the water damage over the guy on the right side of the poster. Can you or Pea help shed some light on that. I think I have seen a few where there has not been damage to that section of the poster. But the one I have and that Charlie has plus a few of the ones I have seen on ebay all have this area of water damage to it. And I am wonder why that is?
welcome1 again buddy. Glad Pea gave me your email so we could get in touch and get you signed up.
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Hi Randy, I have three TERMINATORS - two have the specific water damage and one does not. Thailand is prone to massive rain storms and floods not to mention intense humidity. I've heard many posters and poster collections have been lost or damaged due to flooding. I seems (speculation) a single pile of TERMINATOR posters was exposed to unclean water that left a type of chalky residue when dried. These water damaged posters are ones I've seen for sale the most. The two water damaged ones have one slight "fold" line (not creased) and the one without damage is folded three times horizontal and once vertical. I have many Thai posters that are slightly water damaged in one way or another. I guess it comes with the Thai climate.
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welcome1 Mike good to see that you made it to the forum after countless emails. Pea does give some very good information. I do have a question about the Terminator though. Almost every Terminator poster I have seen has the water damage over the guy on the right side of the poster. Can you or Pea help shed some light on that. I think I have seen a few where there has not been damage to that section of the poster. But the one I have and that Charlie has plus a few of the ones I have seen on ebay all have this area of water damage to it. And I am wonder why that is?
welcome1 again buddy. Glad Pea gave me your email so we could get in touch and get you signed up.
welcome1 Mike
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That makes perfect sense Mike. Thank you for clearing that up. Again glad to see you in the forum finally lol.
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The Thai 2-sheet movie posters were done from the original artwork (like Apocalypse Now) and were released only in large theaters (both urban and rural areas).
Terminator posters are absolutely 100% originals and not re-strikes.
The ones with a lot of damage came from a very old theater out in the rural area of the country, while the unfolded/rolled ones almost all originated from a find I had with an urban theater that was liquidating old stock and had kept them in a good storage place but unfortunately had water damage to the roll as a result of our bad temperature.
Of course the Pakistani poster is simply a copy of the original Thai poster and it was done without Tongdee's permission or the permission of the rights owner here in Thailand.
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Welcome . Mike
Thank you for your additional information.
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Thank you Mike and Pea. The information you both provided is invaluable. Thanks again.
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I've bought quite a few Thai posters over the years because they often have striking artwork, especially for genre movies. Often the Thai poster is better than the country-of-origin version! Also, for obscure movies the Thai poster may be the easiest to locate. There are Thai posters for Italian gialli and Hong Kong action movies that I have not seen much paper for elsewhere. In fact when I first got into posters over a decade ago, one of my first purchases was a roll of 20 or so Thai posters for Hong Kong movies for which I paid a ridiculously low price, and I have no doubt they are genuine.
I think of them sort of as the Mexican lobby cards of the Far East. They are cheap, cheerful and fun to collect, but are not really worth anything except in a few rare cases. Like Mexican lobby cards, they seem to have been produced in vast numbers and despite the harsh conditions of the country, a lot have survived (even though many times more must have been destroyed). This abundant access to mostly minor titles means that it makes no sense to make fakes except for the very occasional big-name title (the Apocalypse Now might be a case in point). Also, the printing process of the time means that many details will vary even from the exact same print run. It seems to me to be overkill to go the whole "poster forensic" route unless we are talking multi-hundreds of dollars material. And in that case, I would not so much go on what is printed but on the paper itself - does it feel and smell the right way for its supposed age? If this seems right the poster is most likely genuine. Even if there was a Thai poster forger out there somewhere, they definitely would not go the whole hog of printing on old paper!
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While I agree with your statements rumble, and due to my experiences with Indian/Bollywood movie posters, I have always had a difficult time trusting the authenticity of posters from Asia. Many of the printing houses in India have no worries, for the right price, in running off extras or copies. This I think has a lot to do with culture. I also think for you to compare Thai posters to Mexican Lobbies is a little harsh since Mexican lobbies lack the art incentive that Thai posters provide. I will also say that the apocalypse now 2 sheet is a $300+ poster, we'll worth the exercise... And there are several that have the horizontal one sheet that would probably like to know more...
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I also think for you to compare Thai posters to Mexican Lobbies is a little harsh since Mexican lobbies lack the art incentive that Thai posters provide.
I think it's a disingenuous comparison because finding Thai posters for key 50s/early 60s titles can be extremely difficult.
People are confusing an abundance of no-name 80s/90s titles with earlier, more difficult to locate material.
I'll pay $700 to the first person who can send me a Thai poster for the first Godzilla film, and $500 if you send me one for the second.
Heck, fine me something as "easy" as Godzilla vs. the Smog Monster, that's a 70s film - must be a ton of them around.
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I think it's a disingenuous comparison because finding Thai posters for key 50s/early 60s titles can be extremely difficult.
People are confusing an abundance of no-name 80s/90s titles with earlier, more difficult to locate material.
I'll pay $700 to the first person who can send me a Thai poster for the first Godzilla film, and $500 if you send me one for the second.
Heck, fine me something as "easy" as Godzilla vs. the Smog Monster, that's a 70s film - must be a ton of them around.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GODZILLA-VS-THE-SMOG-MONSTER-POSTER-original-japanese-2sheet-RARE-TOHO-Japan-/180568704294?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0abbc526
A 2sheet even ;D
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And 10 offers made on it, since 2011... all declined. :-[
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And 10 offers made on it, since 2011... all declined. :-[
To bad we can't see what those offers are.
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Looks pretty cool, tho, I gotta say. And it's a great size, too! thumbup
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Looks pretty cool, tho, I gotta say. And it's a great size, too! thumbup
Yes it is but I do not think I would pay that much for it.
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I spent several hours a couple years ago scrutinizing my APOCALYPSE NOW 2 sheet and 1 sheet posters and I'm convinced, as has been mentioned, that some type of "Photoshop" work was used to create the 1 sheet. I noticed several differences but the biggest two are the missing line on the 1 sheet where the two painted boards of the original art were butted up against each other, and the second is that on the 2 sheet there is a portion of the art that is empty with no people:
(sorry for the lower resolution)
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p9/motdue/APOCALYPSENOW2SHEETemptyspace_zps142fd1a2.jpg?t=1396338839)
and on the 1 sheet there are two guys that are exact duplicates of two others located directly to the right. You can even see the green arm of another guy that was partially duplicated due to cut and paste. I've seen the original art for this poster and can tell you those two extra guys are not there.
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p9/motdue/APOCALYPSENOW1SHEETduplicates_zpsc50b0a80.jpg?t=1396338850)
So the question is if the 1 sheet was created for a re-release several years later, or is somebody just making money off this kick ass design. There's a well known Bangkok dealer who always has the one sheet on his wall and sold them on ebay for several years. He would be able to answer the question.
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And how do we contact this guy Mike? I think it would be nice if we could put this Apocalypse Now to rest with getting to the bottom of the two. Nice post by the way.
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And how do we contact this guy Mike? I think it would be nice if we could put this Apocalypse Now to rest with getting to the bottom of the two. Nice post by the way.
http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,6761.msg131220.html#msg131220
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http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,6761.msg131220.html#msg131220
Are you sure this is even the same guy??
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Same guy whose shop I went to and we had chatted about. He has multiples of apoc now one sheet.
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/GODZILLA-VS-THE-SMOG-MONSTER-POSTER-original-japanese-2sheet-RARE-TOHO-Japan-/180568704294?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0abbc526
A 2sheet even ;D
Not a Thai poster.
Thought this was a discussion about Thai posters
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Not a Thai poster.
Thought this was a discussion about Thai posters
LOL my bad. I must have been tired when I posted that.
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More coffee needed, Randy.
;D
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LOL my bad. I must have been tired when I posted that.
Oh yeah, it is also crazily overpriced.
To give you an idea, here is average prices for the Godzilla movies right before and after Hedorah (the one he is selling):
Destroy All Monsters (1968) $1200-1500
Godzilla's Revenge (1969) $900-1200
Godzilla vs. Hedora (1971) ????
Godzilla vs. Gigan (1972) $300-400
Godzilla vs. Megalon (1973) $200-300
There is a big drop-off in prices once the 70s movies start and that price is just out of line with any sort of reality (especially for the condition).
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More coffee needed, Randy.
;D
Definitely lol. Long days at work and long nights staying up studying. It is more like I need a whole pot of coffee.
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Regardless... i think the style and size of that Japanese piece you posted is VERY cool.
thumbup
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Regardless... i think the style and size of that Japanese piece you posted is VERY cool.
thumbup
Yes it is but I do not think it is worth the asking price IMHO
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Interesting to see Bruce's description for the Thai one sheet for Apocalypse Now in Sunday's auction:
http://auctions.emovieposter.com/Bidding.taf?_function=detail&Auction_uid1=3891714
"An Original Vintage Unfolded Thai Commercial Poster (made to be sold to the public; measures 21 1/4" x 30 3/4" [54 x 78 cm])"
So is this different to the one sheet Charlie posted earlier in the thread? Or the same? If the same, I wonder if this means Bruce has some info that the two sheet was the 'proper' theatrical release and the one sheet was made later as a commercial poster for sale to folk? Apologies if that was common knowledge, I never knew this.
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I think Pea cleared up a lot having talked directly to the artist...
Tongdee would like to confirm that the Apocalypse Now 2-sheets are indeed authentic, but he has never seen the 1-sheets until recently so
he is unsure as to their origin.
Tongdee would also like to set at ease the worries about the posters being purchased from me being restrikes or not originals.
He said no one scanned or reproduced his artwork from the originals, as no Thai artists allow that. As to restrikes, it depends on the orders
of the rights owners of the films in Thailand. Although they can be reprinted for for use in the rural areas, the colors will mostly be
different and it will mainly be done for Thai movies, very rarely for foreign movies.
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Ah, thanks Charlie. I managed to miss that information on my thread re-read this morning. Interesting to know that about the 1-sheet.
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Great info there Charlie
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I let Bruce know about the Apocalypse Now poster when I was contacted from his company about a month ago about the ENTER THE DRAGON Thai poster which is a reprint. There was never a one sheet for the Apocalypse Now movie. There are sketchy things going on with a seller mentioned previously in this thread. There are some people in this world that I wonder how they sleep at night, they just don't give a s**t about their own scruples.
The thing that concerns me the most is that Apocalypse Now commercial poster sold for $400 f*****g dollars.
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The thing that concerns me the most is that Apocalypse Now commercial poster sold for $400 f*****g dollars.
Ouch...
Just curious. How many of us have the two-sheet now? I have one. HarryCaul has one? Others?
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I have a 2 sheet linen backed. And again I must say that Pea has always been so helpful and a great resource!
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I love the 2-sht Apoc Now poster but it has always been out of my price range
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I let Bruce know about the Apocalypse Now poster when I was contacted from his company about a month ago about the ENTER THE DRAGON Thai poster which is a reprint. There was never a one sheet for the Apocalypse Now movie. There are sketchy things going on with a seller mentioned previously in this thread. There are some people in this world that I wonder how they sleep at night, they just don't give a s**t about their own scruples.
The thing that concerns me the most is that Apocalypse Now commercial poster sold for $400 f*****g dollars.
Mike, if that commercial one sheet size sold for over 400 bucks, what does the theatrical APOC NOW 2sheet normally sell for (or what's the price range)?
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Gonna be honest, when I was in Bangkok some years ago, I was shown a good condition 1 sheet as well as a 2 sheet but with water damage and a big hole on right upper side. Since I wanted the poster to be hanged, I chose the 1sh, smaller, better condition. Both were offered at same price, I paid much less than this, about 80-90 USD I think. Someone said here he was offered 2sh recently at about 500 USD, that seems to be the price.
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I spoke to a Thai seller in Bgk about poster 1sh not being real, being a reproduction. He somehow acknowledged this when I mentioned the issue with line but said to me that he is legit seller and never sold fake... but that other Thai sellers are all doing it. They are selling these backdoor to collectors but he stopped. You call it "commercial poster", some call it "fake poster"... I think better terms is "limited original reproduction" :) I think these repro were made in the late 90s and they are not printed anymore nowadays, someone made one batch.
As for people raising concerns and questions of authentication, just forget it... when you start engaging with people to get the truth, you realise poster sellers is a small world and everybody has their own little secret. I wonder what makes people think that one guy can sell fakes while others sellers being totally unaware or not selling fake ??? Same questions for collectors who bought fakes, especially over 100 USD, do you really think they will come out in public and claim it is a fake ??
Even getting info on other thai posters is difficult as you get facetious answers and no clear replies - http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php?topic=11550.0
You speak to collectors, they will throw at you it is a fake with low offer of 70 USD. And few buyers who have similar posters will simply not reply due to possible financial loss.
As for me, I wrote to the second Thai seller I was supposed to meet just to get an answer on these fakes. I told him/her that I presumably bought fake posters from the first seller and that I am disappointed that I didn't get any warning about this (here on forum or by email). I also asked if the posters are really fake and mentioned that the first seller said lot bad thing about him/her. No answer. I wrote another email, no answer. Few months, I wrote another email asking if these posters are available, I got an immediate reply "They have been sold some months ago" . I asked for market prices, no answer. I fail to understand why no one here took time to warn me too when I posted about the shop here, so many knowledgeable people, especially knowing that most knowledgeable people agree on fact they are fake. Pfffff. It says a lot, people are dishonest and clearly lack of empathy
I wrote to first seller to put pressure, I asked about fakes and to have my money back and return them. He replied this:
"It has been for a several years that we do sell the poster as well as be a first of poster seller in online. Our shop is well known.
Every time after we finished bidding the poster that got high price, the other seller will offer the price in order to find the same poster as well. Somehow they don't know where it from but we know the source. It makes us get a problem to deal in the same price that have brought before. Because the buzz of high price gone wide in market, so it makes us to stop selling online. There are a lot of many poster still out there and some of it got less because we sell it in the shop. Actually, the poster that you brought from us is the one that we intend to sell to someone because he ordered it.
If you want to return the poster back please contact the address below. We will return your money immediately after received the poster from you.
Please send parcel back with registered airmail. Our shop open since 1997, the only one shop, no branch, never move before. So, there is no reason to be afraid and sell the fake one. We had opened official shop, and it always been for long time. Just let you know, we will never cheat and disappear from you. This returning of goods is the standard swap that every buyer and seller do. You return my product and I return your money. Our poster shop has been in XXXX, for almost 18 years. We never move the shop to anywhere. That's why I would to tell you that please do not judge us as thief. If you got the problem, come and find me in Bangkok. I'm ready to meet you all the times."
This said, the image is great, the movie is too and Thai posters are really good !!
And life is good !